Guild Wars 2

Hekatombaion makes a good point about CD’s defense. Even in EB, our defensive tactics are too reactionary, and so we’re never prepared. Maybe there isn’t as much percieved reward for defending, but I find XP / Badges come quick during a long defense.

I think if we defended more (something I love doing myself) our pug players would better understand how to do it.

The fact that KH talks crap is laughable; horrible guild with a large player base and no real talent besides overwhelming their opponent. I’ve seen them lose consistently with over twice the numbers of their opponents who are generally pugs. Honestly I feel bad for their members and their leadership should just uninstall for being so bad. When they first showed up they were a riot fighting, such easy badges, until the day their numbers massively inflated.

TLDR: lol-KH-lol

Blrrgh.6908:

You missed my point completely. Also, there isn’t anything in my comment about moving up in rating. The rest of your response to me is basically a ramble about FA and CD outnumbering you,( which is amusing to say the least. CD slightly outnumbers IoJ, and we outnumber FA somewhat, off of their peak times) and “who deserves what”.
Try to take the time to read and understand what is written.

I try to be kind of server neutral so people recognize that I’m talking to everyone but I’m on CD and don’t make it completely unknown.

I’ll decipher my comment for you: T3 is a good matchup for IoJ, but we are probably going to drop further down in ranking even if we win, which means the system is bonkers.

So you’ve confirmed that you don’t think about this much.

Let’s decipher ratings for you-
You think it’s ridiculous if winning (1st place) means your rating goes down.
This indicates that you think the rating would have to go down for servers in 3rd place and have to go up for servers in 1st place. Play this out in your head for a few rounds and you’ll see that under such a system one of our servers would have to eventually swap places with TC, even if they were only 1k behind those other servers week after week.

So instead of “win means points up lose means points down” the system tries to actually dial you into a rating that shows how good you are compared to other servers. “Winning” is not the measure of your rank. “How many points you get in what tier” is the measure of your rank.

This is not news anyway, the ranking system is designed for static entities, not GW2 servers with radical population shifts every 3 weeks.

A: This doesn’t have any connection to “I won so my points should go up.”
B: Actually this system is very well tuned for that. Your rating is supposed to change if you get better (even if that’s not due to skill increase.) If you get a bigger score in a week then the system will dial you in to a higher rating than it was dialing you in to before.

But instead of that you seem to be complaining that it dials you in at all. If you think your rating should have to go up no matter what for a win then you don’t really want a system that dials you in to your actual rating relative to the other servers- you want one that matches people up haphazardly when they’re very poorly matched. You’re asking for something that’s worse than what we have.

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

logged on to see FA at +85
we must’ve botched something really bad for this to happen o.O

CD golem rushed FA’s fully upgraded and supplied keep in under 5 mins in EB.

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

logged on to see FA at +85
we must’ve botched something really bad for this to happen o.O

Basically all the guild leaders on CD alliance teamspeak decided that we let you guys run rampant in our borderland for too long.
Now the question is how low will we push the green tally?

Raincrow.1840:

Hekatombaion makes a good point about CD’s defense. Even in EB, our defensive tactics are too reactionary, and so we’re never prepared. Maybe there isn’t as much percieved reward for defending, but I find XP / Badges come quick during a long defense.

I think if we defended more (something I love doing myself) our pug players would better understand how to do it.

Without any way to speed up the repel attackers event it’s not obvious to a lot of new players that the rewards are so steep. Same way nobody understands the exciting combat that goes on if you escort yaks on the front line with just a few players.

Folk.2093:

-canned insult-

Lol, you’re funny.

Darknicrofia.2604:

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

logged on to see FA at +85
we must’ve botched something really bad for this to happen o.O

CD golem rushed FA’s fully upgraded and supplied keep in under 5 mins in EB.

I think that one was Titan War.

Kitten, now I feel like I should have kept a tally of the keeps KH blitzed tonight. The counts getting pretty high but while you guys have your garrisons the count might still go higher.

Folk.2093:

The fact that KH talks crap is laughable; horrible guild with a large player base and no real talent besides overwhelming their opponent. I’ve seen them lose consistently with over twice the numbers of their opponents who are generally pugs. Honestly I feel bad for their members and their leadership should just uninstall for being so bad. When they first showed up they were a riot fighting, such easy badges, until the day their numbers massively inflated.

TLDR: lol-KH-lol

That’s a troll right there FOLK

Araliun.5024:

Folk.2093:

The fact that KH talks crap is laughable; horrible guild with a large player base and no real talent besides overwhelming their opponent. I’ve seen them lose consistently with over twice the numbers of their opponents who are generally pugs. Honestly I feel bad for their members and their leadership should just uninstall for being so bad. When they first showed up they were a riot fighting, such easy badges, until the day their numbers massively inflated.

TLDR: lol-KH-lol

That’s a troll right there FOLK

Not trying to be honestly, everyone has their bad guilds and for CD KH is one of them. It’s just funny that they come out here thumping their chest like they’re somebody.

I had so much fun tonight. Wow. Took garrisons on IoJ and FA. Took all of IoJ. What fun. Thanks to all that died at the end of my sword. Hope to do it again. Soon.

CD’s idea of winning is getting more transfers. If you cant beat us with skill then beat us with numbers?

Too bad, things are more enjoyable when server numbers are even. I lol at you!!

Folk.2093:

Araliun.5024:

Folk.2093:

The fact that KH talks crap is laughable; horrible guild with a large player base and no real talent besides overwhelming their opponent. I’ve seen them lose consistently with over twice the numbers of their opponents who are generally pugs. Honestly I feel bad for their members and their leadership should just uninstall for being so bad. When they first showed up they were a riot fighting, such easy badges, until the day their numbers massively inflated.

TLDR: lol-KH-lol

That’s a troll right there FOLK

Not trying to be honestly, everyone has their bad guilds and for CD KH is one of them. It’s just funny that they come out here thumping their chest like they’re somebody.

Your canned insult rings really hollow here though- KH specifically earned the respect of a lot of guilds running around in 15 man groups. We’ve got more players now but we’ve done a lot to keep the level of discipline and coordination high as we’ve grown.

The people who are more aware of what’s going on in combat (ever as much of a clusterkitten as it gets in large groups) will see that more’s going on.

oceansofmars.6894:

CD’s idea of winning is getting more transfers. If you cant beat us with skill then beat us with numbers?

Too bad, things are more enjoyable when server numbers are even. I lol at you!!

A: Cause you choose to have influxes of people, as a server. We vote on it then we just click their server transfer button for them.
B: It’s not server xfers brah. You might want to read the guild tags on these folks running into places- lots of people on your server have learned to because they give up after the entire CD alliance gets together and wipes them a few times.

Anyway, score update:

LoL @ other servers complaining about numbers and skill… seriously guys…!
You lost tonight, you did, admit it and move on.

This was brought to you by the lovely people of KH.
<3

oceansofmars.6894:

CD’s idea of winning is getting more transfers. If you cant beat us with skill then beat us with numbers?

Too bad, things are more enjoyable when server numbers are even. I lol at you!!

Typical speeches like this being made by the losing teams on every WvW thread. Same with the guys pretending KH isn’t a good guild, while they take your entire border land.

It’s just sour grapes.

oceansofmars.6894:

CD’s idea of winning is getting more transfers. If you cant beat us with skill then beat us with numbers?

Too bad, things are more enjoyable when server numbers are even. I lol at you!!

We’ve been playing with FA for awhile, so if we got any bandwagon transfers they came from your server. Maybe you should consider why your own server is jumping ship when they lose before you lol at our server.

Raincrow.1840:

oceansofmars.6894:

CD’s idea of winning is getting more transfers. If you cant beat us with skill then beat us with numbers?

Too bad, things are more enjoyable when server numbers are even. I lol at you!!

Typical speeches like this being made by the losing teams on every WvW thread. Same with the guys pretending KH isn’t a good guild, while they take your entire border land.

It’s just sour grapes.

Maybe if we squeeze them enough we’ll make some wine? Keep it up CD!

Gonna enjoy finally being green next week

IoJ has a great and tight community and I highly doubt anyone from our core would join your server rofl. Look, the facts are you got an influx of transfers. You dont go from having even matches to suddenly being able to cover more ground without NUMBERS.

I suppose you want FA and IoJ to believe that in the past 24 hours you all became that much better at GW2? Its funny and cute but also a little sad.

Shame there is a west coast bias to this game since they get the last caps in and theirs carry over night. 5000 point spread up until tuesday night. Our blowout(FA) came after eastcoast get up in the morning and go to work/school bedtime. But prior we definitely played more skillfully and with greater wisdom. Since things are pretty much settled I will see you again on Friday.

Saweth You Him.9047:

Shame there is a west coast bias to this game since they get the last caps in and theirs carry over night. 5000 point spread up until tuesday night. Our blowout(FA) came after eastcoast get up in the morning and go to work/school bedtime. But prior we definitely played more skillfully and with greater wisdom. Since things are pretty much settled I will see you again on Friday.

Until now we’d been hearing about the oceanic bias.

Can we please not talk about which server is more elite, or more strategic. There is no way to resolve the argument, and it’s just a waste of time.

FA and IOJ has shown ingenuity and skill in battle – as has CD. We’ve all got our share of good commanders and newbies. Please just leave it at that. Thanks.

Raincrow.1840:

Same with the guys pretending KH isn’t a good guild, while they take your entire border land.

It’s just sour grapes.

Not difficult to take a borderland when the defenders are outmanned. Not something I’d brag about.

oceansofmars.6894:

IoJ has a great and tight community and I highly doubt anyone from our core would join your server rofl. Look, the facts are you got an influx of transfers. You dont go from having even matches to suddenly being able to cover more ground without NUMBERS.

I suppose you want FA and IoJ to believe that in the past 24 hours you all became that much better at GW2? Its funny and cute but also a little sad.

It has nothing to do with “transfers” as far as I can tell. CD has always had a good sized WvW population, but we tend to have highs and lows in which either all of us are playing or just a few. This is why we were last place duting the holidays, but allmost always first place on friday resets.

It’s the same people we’ve had for weeks. We’re just all playing right now, lol.

If we could keep this many players in the map at all times during the week, we’d really have a top tier WvW server.

I don’t get the complaints about the Glicko system. The point of it is exactly to deal with things like server transfers and inconsistent map population.

Yeah well there isn’t much to be done about Jerry.

Chaba.5410:

Raincrow.1840:

Same with the guys pretending KH isn’t a good guild, while they take your entire border land.

It’s just sour grapes.

Not difficult to take a borderland when the defenders are outmanned. Not something I’d brag about.

But you’re wrong. It is something to brag about whether you admit it or not. Well timed, organized, fast server wide attacks that took you unaware, dropped your morale, and led to your players bailing. It happens, it’s part of WvW, we faced it against TC…… but to act like it’s just luck or something and didn’t require organization, timing and skill is just silly.

I know some of you think WvW “skill” is measured in 1v1 or 5v5…. but that’s the type of mindset that leaves you behind on the score board.

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

logged on to see FA at +85
we must’ve botched something really bad for this to happen o.O

Yep, we just all got sick and tired of our Borderlands getting double teamed.

Folk.2093:

The fact that KH talks crap is laughable; horrible guild with a large player base and no real talent besides overwhelming their opponent. I’ve seen them lose consistently with over twice the numbers of their opponents who are generally pugs. Honestly I feel bad for their members and their leadership should just uninstall for being so bad. When they first showed up they were a riot fighting, such easy badges, until the day their numbers massively inflated.

TLDR: lol-KH-lol

are you serious ? Lol

you just discreditted all of your other posts with this post

Chaba.5410:

Raincrow.1840:

Same with the guys pretending KH isn’t a good guild, while they take your entire border land.

It’s just sour grapes.

Not difficult to take a borderland when the defenders are outmanned. Not something I’d brag about.

The key there is that we killed so many of you so fast that people switched maps or quit WvW for the night outright. As one point there was basically a bloody red carpet from hills to the camp north of it as we just cut down this constant stream of players. This big group retreating out of the keep once we showed up to boot them out of it and then probably the same players running back from spawn.

After that the last real resistance fled the map and we just had the small groups trying to stealth cap undefending points (before we rolled up behind them for more small red carpets through the snow.)

Reading the posts, I’m really not seeing a lot of FA whining about the zergs. We get swept out overnight at least once a week. But we’re still here.

For every 1 FA post about the ‘CD zerg’ I’m seeing 4 posts from CD getting defensive about it…

I think this whole thing is blown way out of proportion :P

Good fights today CD… We’ll be seeing you again tomorrow

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

Reading the posts, I’m really not seeing a lot of FA whining about the zergs. We get swept out overnight at least once a week. But we’re still here.

For every 1 FA post about the ‘CD zerg’ I’m seeing 4 posts from CD getting defensive about it…

I think this whole thing is blown way out of proportion :P

Good fights today CD… We’ll be seeing you again tomorrow

I almost forgot that that dude called KH that.
Is trash talking a guild the same thing as other complaints about zerging?

“See you tomorrow.” Yeah, maybe you will.

the koreans on IOJ almost without fail comes to CDBL during asian timezone period every night
almost every night and multiple attempts to try to take CD garrison

rarely they visited FABL,
i wonder why? must have very good cookies in CD garrison……

Because cd is on top ATM makes more sense to get points from there…..

Riddickk.7091:

All Im seeing is IOJ videos, any from FA/CD perspective? I know you guys got to have some epic fights on video….

I have tons of videos on my youtube channel, old and new, I’ll be going through a lot of my stream footage tomorrow, I had epic epic open field fights in EB tonight

JPSnow.8296:

Because cd is on top ATM makes more sense to get points from there…..

This! CD points are basically worth double right now, because we gain those point, and CD doesn’t. Stop complaining about your BL being the target. You’re #1, so you should be the target. Don’t like it? Try a game without 3 teams then.

As for taking our whole BL, doesn’t much matter. We got it back, and we’re ahead on PPT. We’ll keep fighting and clawing our way back, regardless of the numbers you throw at us. And why is it that you have to pull out your kitten and start measuring it against everybody else? You remember this is a game, right? CD has been a good fight, FA has been a good fight. Why can’t we leave it at that instead of trying to call each other out for being baddies, or zerg guilds, etc etc… Have some sportsmanship people

I just don’t get why FA has to keep saying they’re being out numbered ALL THE TIME. It seems like they didn’t realize statements like this is what killed their morale and caused people to bail on them, thereby becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Playing victims make you preys. No one wants to be prey.

In CD, whenever we get someone complaining about being double teamed, we go into great lengths explaining what exactly is going on and that we aren’t being double teamed (in an unfair way). We also try to keep the situation static when things don’t go our way, and try to hold people on the map the best we can. If we do get the outmanned buff we don’t make a big deal out of it. Just wait for other people to join the map and make a comeback.

If all these things aren’t being done then all it says is that FA has no leadership. It won’t matter how many people you try to recruit if you can’t keep them fighting. I’ve yet to see CD try to publicly recruit cross-server, even though we too have no queue anywhere most of the time, and when we do get queues for an hour or so at peak, it’s less than 5 minutes queues.

Heinel.6548:

I just don’t get why FA has to keep saying they’re being out numbered ALL THE TIME. It seems like they didn’t realize statements like this is what killed their morale and caused people to bail on them, thereby becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Playing victims make you preys. No one wants to be prey.

In CD, whenever we get someone complaining about being double teamed, we go into great lengths explaining what exactly is going on and that we aren’t being double teamed (in an unfair way). We also try to keep the situation static when things don’t go our way, and try to hold people on the map the best we can. If we do get the outmanned buff we don’t make a big deal out of it. Just wait for other people to join the map and make a comeback.

If all these things aren’t being done then all it says is that FA has no leadership. It won’t matter how many people you try to recruit if you can’t keep them fighting. I’ve yet to see CD try to publicly recruit cross-server, even though we too have no queue anywhere most of the time, and when we do get queues for an hour or so at peak, it’s less than 5 minutes queues.

Araliun.5024:

So guilds of IoJ and FA … ready to transfer to CD and take it to the next Tier? We have our sights set on Tier 2. Perhaps you do as well. SO maybe it’s time for a little server hopping. Message me if interested in discussing.

Well, there’s a public cross-server recruitment right there, from this very thread. And the only people i see complaining about double teaming is CD. Point, set, match.

buzzkapow.8465:

Heinel.6548:

I just don’t get why FA has to keep saying they’re being out numbered ALL THE TIME. It seems like they didn’t realize statements like this is what killed their morale and caused people to bail on them, thereby becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Playing victims make you preys. No one wants to be prey.

In CD, whenever we get someone complaining about being double teamed, we go into great lengths explaining what exactly is going on and that we aren’t being double teamed (in an unfair way). We also try to keep the situation static when things don’t go our way, and try to hold people on the map the best we can. If we do get the outmanned buff we don’t make a big deal out of it. Just wait for other people to join the map and make a comeback.

If all these things aren’t being done then all it says is that FA has no leadership. It won’t matter how many people you try to recruit if you can’t keep them fighting. I’ve yet to see CD try to publicly recruit cross-server, even though we too have no queue anywhere most of the time, and when we do get queues for an hour or so at peak, it’s less than 5 minutes queues.

Araliun.5024:

So guilds of IoJ and FA … ready to transfer to CD and take it to the next Tier? We have our sights set on Tier 2. Perhaps you do as well. SO maybe it’s time for a little server hopping. Message me if interested in discussing.

Well, there’s a public cross-server recruitment right there, from this very thread. And the only people i see complaining about double teaming is CD. Point, set, match.

Deny all you want. It works in our favor.

Deny what? What exactly am I denying? I’m not from FA btw. I was just pointing out that CD is publicly recruiting, and that the only people complaining about double teaming is CD. Which seems to work in your favour?

It is evident that CD has become the target of both BLs just by looking at the map. Left side is always harnessed by FA and right by IOJ.

IOJ has been constantly aiming CD for sometime now and likewise CD on IOJ. FA as they claimed being outnumbered tends to be a bit more passive by attacking whatever others are attacking resulting in seemingly a “double team”.

Another view is that CD’s defense is not as great as the other servers whereby there are scouts in their neglected BL and often theres not a single CD within camps towers to notify incoming attacks which make us an easier target compared to the other servers.

Just wanted to say that I am really proud of CD this week. Held out through adversity, and kept the lead from the start. While there wasn’t any “double teaming” going on, you could tell which server was being focused on. As a member of GoF we couldn’t of found a better server and glad to be here making a difference with the guilds of CD. The communication last night between the guilds is how we we’re able to accomplish such point totals. Keep It Up!

I’d like to thank all the servers for giving an honorable fight in EBG the whole day. I enjoyed it very much, killing and being killed. To CD, please stop trebbing Klovan even for a day.

To the IOJ Commanders in EBG, you guys are still the best for me. I’ll lend a hand as much as I can all day every day!

Keep up the good fight CD and FA. Stop the hate, enjoy the competition.

And getting back to rational discussion… I thought I’d note that if the week eneded TODAY, CD will be bumped into 1st place for tier 3. IoJ will fall to 2nd with FA in striking distance to move up.

The WvW ratings are:

Current Rating:

1 773.965 (IoJ)
1 764.159 (CD)
1 726.746 (FA)

Next Week’s Rating:
1 758.070 (IoJ)
1 767.882 (CD)
1 738.790 (FA)

Source:
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

Edit:

Also of note — Dragonbrand from Tier 4 is pulling ahead of that tier. It’s possible they’ll be pushing their way to Tier 3 if FA has a bad week.

Dragonbrand’s score next week — 1 672.846

Thanks for the update Krazy! I myself have never checked on that site before lol.

Also I really hate you guys from FA and IoJ, and its a respectful kind of hate I guess? [AVTR] and [ND] with their portal bombs and 10000 golems (exaggeration, BUT IT IS ALWAYS SO MANY T_T), their numbers to be able to field enough to hold us down on two BL’s. FA for their wise decisions and relatively fast response times when attacking their side, its nice to see that you guys do try hard even when outmanned. Though I really grudge against FA when they keep poking us whenever we’re locked in with IoJ, but after thinking about it, its probably the most legit tactic anyone would use in a 3 way war like this, so even though we are getting “double teamed”, its not like its some planned alliance, its just the smart thing for both servers to do. They do poke each other but we all know FA is the most undermanned server during Oceanic timing so they can’t afford to throw their bodies at IoJ which will respond with a hell lot of siege and a zerg of 25-40 to eat you alive.

Anyway I’m not on FA so I have no idea what they are planning but this is just from my point of view, so we should just lay off all the insults and keep them within our server if you want to rage.

And.. goodnight

I had respect for IoJ prior to this matchup. I still remember the hordes and hordes of zergs when they blew by CD as we were falling down and they moved up to t2. I didn’t say they won’t because of zergs, I just credited them for winning.

After this week my opinion is starting to change.
Lets start with Dragon, the guild recruiting on other servers and trying to get people to switch servers. What’s even more laughable is they came to the forums and requested that guilds from FA and CD come to IoJ and “consolidate” so that they can push back into tier 2 and maybe tier 1.

How brazen, and underhanded, don’t you think. Maybe now they might consider moving to CD, since we are winning for the 2nd week in a row? There’s your push into tier 2!!! I hope not, because people like that are not someone I want to be associated with.

Then come these accusations of band wagoners? Are you serious? Our population is still the same. Heck last week we struggled to maintain anything in EB due to the huge green and red pushes onto blue. We persevered and ended up winning the match. We still do have to defend against constant pushes, but we don’t call any other server band-wagoners, now do we?

I’m very happy when I get instant EB queues and have to wait to get into CDBL. If you knew the inner workings of a server you would realize that we are just working better together now. We are still very bad at defense, but there is hope for improvement.

FA…

I’m more annoyed at them than anything else. But I also think that’s the emotion I SHOULD have when fighitng someone. They are opportunistic, that’s it.

I would hope that this whole notion that FA somehow plays to keep the first place server in check is dropped. It’s been proven over the last month to be false. Look at the actions and please drop the pretense. GODS and PRO are above such false statements I hope?
I mean, IoJ was winning the first week and there was never a sough push on green from red, only on blue.

Let’s be clear, I don’t blame them for it and it’s completely valid, but I would hope that the posters here drop the pretense of containing the first place server. It’s very unbecoming.

Haldunius.7864:

Altie.4571:

Blrrgh.6908:

If you haven’t been on IoJ for the duration of the “GW2 Anabasis” that IoJ has experienced since September, you have no idea of the quality or determination of the core population. See you all in WvW.

Every server has some form of this statement. So please don’t use it in a “we are better than you” argument.

FA had guilds abandon and then clawed back up. CD had a large exodus and we’re almost back to where we were (T2). IoJ was a ginormous zerg server when we first fought them, now they are smaller in numbers.

So please, give credit to everyone. Those that play WvW are for the most part the ones that stuck around and enjoy the competition.

Thread seems to have died so I figured I’d reference this video:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/4vs30-No-problem/first#post1164190

in context of IoJ’s posts above and then ask what IoJ’s “hardcore” strategy was here.

Looks like some of the FA’ers are….RVLS (was that the tag?) or something very similar. If I’m right with the guild tag, this is a hello from Handeman (mesmer). I think I did some small supply circuit runs on IoJ or CD BL with you guys Saturday with my guildie DrToph (d/d ele). Was fun if that was you guys.

fyi im not from ioj.

Can’t we all just get along and enjoy the matchup instead of whine and argue? I really have to say this is the most equal matchup I’ve seen recently, and it’s actually been fun fighting with you CD and IoJ guys.

I agree with Shardain, this has been one of the best matchups that I’ve actually enjoyed and was really challenged. It was CD and FA that made me stay in EBG for more than 8 hours again. Let’s all have fun and start killing each other with respect as an honorable opponent. Stop the hate, stop being an elitist. It would all fall into negative reactions.

I agree with Shardain, this has been one of the best matchups that I’ve actually enjoyed and was really challenged. It was CD and FA that made me stay in EBG for more than 8 hours again. Let’s all have fun and start killing each other with respect as an honorable opponent. Stop the hate, stop being an elitist. It would all fall into negative reactions.

I agree with Shardain, this has been one of the best matchups that I’ve actually enjoyed and was really challenged. It was CD and FA that made me stay in EBG for more than 8 hours again. Let’s all have fun and start killing each other with respect as an honorable opponent. Stop the hate, stop being an elitist. It would all fall into negative reactions.

I agree with Shardain, this has been one of the best matchups that I’ve actually enjoyed and was really challenged. It was CD and FA that made me stay in EBG for more than 8 hours again. Let’s all have fun and start killing each other with respect as an honorable opponent. Stop the hate, stop being an elitist. It would all fall into negative reactions.

you can say that again?