Guild Wars 2

Changing the revealed buff from 3 seconds to 4 seconds is going to do nothing to fix the extensive thief problem in WvW. Now players have 4 seconds to drop a thief from 100% —> 0% instead of 3.

Oh, and don’t forget all haste has been dropped by 50%, so if you could drop a thief in 3 seconds using haste, you’ll probably need at least 6 now. Meanwhile, back in game, you get this stuff:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQDkXeE_UY
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8S60VHTxAA
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPYzItX8mmA
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XubClqLgJnY
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQDkXeE_UY

I’d challenge any ArenaNet developer come to this forum, watch these videos and explain exactly how this kind of gameplay is fun for anyone other than the thief.

It’s bad gameplay and there is no excuse for letting it persist as long as it has.

It is an additional one second plus the culling fix. How about we actually see how these two changes combined actually play out before complaining it is not enough?

Sureshot.6725:

It is an additional one second plus the culling fix. How about we actually see how these two changes combined actually play out before complaining it is not enough?

Amen brutha, akittenmen.

Give it some time. Lets see how it pans out.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Oh, and don’t forget all haste has been dropped by 50%, so if you could drop a thief in 3 seconds using haste, you’ll probably need at least 6 now. Meanwhile, back in game, you get this stuff:

That math is wrong.

If 100% increase in damage nets you 3 seconds to kill a thief, then 6 seconds was your original time to kill with no haste.

The 50% increase would actually only put you 1 second behind the 100% increase at 4 seconds.

So your time would go from 3 to 4 seconds, not 3 to 6+.

(correct me if i’m wrong)

Let me ask you, Its ok to drop a thief in 3 to 6 seconds using haste but its not ok for a thief to drop you in 3 to 6 seconds using stealth? More often then not a thief will stealth 3 to 4 times in a fight, that means they will be not stealth for 9 to 12 seconds now with the change is 12 to 16 seconds. Now that culling has been removed its going to be a real 12-16 seconds not effected by not being able to see the thief. You have no evidence on how the addition of 1 second on revealed and culling will effect the class and all 5 of your videos are pre-patch which makes them completely irrelevant at this point.

I hate to say L2P and all but all those videos are of very good thieves vs people that think they can stand toe to toe with a thief (a duelist class) in a duel. Also I run a very similar build and play style to Yishis and I can’t do what he does as good as he can.

Sureshot.6725:

It is an additional one second plus the culling fix. How about we actually see how these two changes combined actually play out before complaining it is not enough?

The culling fix is completely overblown and it’s a common argument used by people playing thieves.
You don’t need to ‘see how it plays out’ to realize that it’s still hopelessly broken. This change does nothing to fix things. As it stands, any person playing a thief in wvw should never die. Adding 1 more second to ‘revealed’ will do nothing to fix this.

nothing.

I am sorry, but there is TWO nerfs for Thieves. 1 second revealed, which is good, and culling, which is better. So, until you try it yourself with new (exciting ) patch, please, stop with stupid theories.

These videos are outdated.

Post videos that are published after March 26th.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sureshot.6725:

It is an additional one second plus the culling fix. How about we actually see how these two changes combined actually play out before complaining it is not enough?

The culling fix is completely overblown and it’s a common argument used by people playing thieves.
You don’t need to ‘see how it plays out’ to realize that it’s still hopelessly broken. This change does nothing to fix things. As it stands, any person playing a thief in wvw should never die. Adding 1 more second to ‘revealed’ will do nothing to fix this.

nothing.

You already tried? And culling was the major issue of players vs thieves. Ah, you know everything, and you already played this patch for 20 hours, and YOU KNOW it will change nothing? Please…

fivekiller.1432:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Oh, and don’t forget all haste has been dropped by 50%, so if you could drop a thief in 3 seconds using haste, you’ll probably need at least 6 now. Meanwhile, back in game, you get this stuff:

That math is wrong.

If 100% increase in damage nets you 3 seconds to kill a thief, then 6 seconds was your original time to kill with no haste.

The 50% increase would actually only put you 1 second behind the 100% increase at 4 seconds.

So your time would go from 3 to 4 seconds, not 3 to 6+.

(correct me if i’m wrong)

That’s correct. Figuring in the thief will be more likely to react and evade your attacks, it may take even longer than 6 seconds.

Don’t forget that, outside of a 100b warrior or another thief, there really isn’t any class that could kill a thief that quickly.

Skaven Zverov.2984:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sureshot.6725:

It is an additional one second plus the culling fix. How about we actually see how these two changes combined actually play out before complaining it is not enough?

The culling fix is completely overblown and it’s a common argument used by people playing thieves.
You don’t need to ‘see how it plays out’ to realize that it’s still hopelessly broken. This change does nothing to fix things. As it stands, any person playing a thief in wvw should never die. Adding 1 more second to ‘revealed’ will do nothing to fix this.

nothing.

You already tried? And culling was the major issue of players vs thieves. Ah, you know everything, and you already played this patch for 20 hours, and YOU KNOW it will change nothing? Please…

And you know culling was the major issue of players vs thieves? Ah, you know everything…

Explain how culling will suddenly allow players to kill thieves who can restealth within 4 seconds and run away.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Changing the revealed buff from 3 seconds to 4 seconds is going to do nothing to fix the extensive thief problem in WvW. Now players have 4 seconds to drop a thief from 100% —> 0% instead of 3.

No you don’t, you still only have a fraction of a second. Culling isn’t the issue. I just logged in and tested the “nerf” and I can still chain cloak and dagger like always. There is no nerf.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Don’t forget that, outside of a 100b warrior or another thief, there really isn’t any class that could kill a thief that quickly.

A Mesmer can range burst down an unwary glass cannon thief in a couple of seconds (GS 4, 2, 3, F1 should just about do it)

Either way, I wonder how much of a nerf this really is. As I have understood it, revealed only occur when you attack from stealth? So if you stealth, appear and then attack you can restealth instantly. Basicly, it only nerf the backstab skill by adding an extra second before the thief can restealth. Which is nothing.

It is quite dissapointing. This does absolutely nothing for multi-veiling zergs or perma-stealth thieves.

Actually one change will slow thiefs down , and that steal/mug doesn’t now automatically lead into autoattack.

It will slow them down until such time as they amend the macro on their keyboard to take account of it, the we’re back to instawin from stealth, as basilisk still stuns for long enough for them to combo you in about one second.

The example of wiping a thief in 3 seconds was just for illustrative purposes only- thiefs have the ultimate ‘get out of jail free’ skills and there is still NO effective counter to stealth and no detection pots, etc.

Meanwhile thief QQs were heard and QZ got nerfed to hell, as apparently if you got completely lucky and crit on every shot it might have been possible to kill a thief on qz with buffs and everything else by shooting them with lb3 followed by lb2 if every single shot hit, provided they didn’t notice in the 5 seconds it took to do this to a moving target…

And this:

No you don’t, you still only have a fraction of a second. Culling isn’t the issue. I just logged in and tested the “nerf” and I can still chain cloak and dagger like always. There is no nerf.

Daecollo.9578:

These videos are outdated.

Post videos that are published after March 26th.

Videos are not outdated. Those videos are nearly entirely of small-group play, or 1v2 play. There is no culling in those situations. QED.

Dawdler.8521:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Don’t forget that, outside of a 100b warrior or another thief, there really isn’t any class that could kill a thief that quickly.

A Mesmer can range burst down an unwary glass cannon thief in a couple of seconds (GS 4, 2, 3, F1 should just about do it)

That combo won’t come close to killing even a glass cannon thief. And in WvW, everyone is rocking PVT gear.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Daecollo.9578:

These videos are outdated.

Post videos that are published after March 26th.

Videos are not outdated. Those videos are nearly entirely of small-group play, or 1v2 play. There is no culling in those situations. QED.

Thats not true, devs stated that culling was an issue in WvW…Even if is was small groups models were still taking longer to load, when chaining stealth the thief model would drop and have to reload every few seconds and making it seem for the opposing player to feel like the thief was stealth for a few more seconds then he really was.

Sorry but any video pre today is outdated as far as culling gos.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Skaven Zverov.2984:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Sureshot.6725:

It is an additional one second plus the culling fix. How about we actually see how these two changes combined actually play out before complaining it is not enough?

The culling fix is completely overblown and it’s a common argument used by people playing thieves.
You don’t need to ‘see how it plays out’ to realize that it’s still hopelessly broken. This change does nothing to fix things. As it stands, any person playing a thief in wvw should never die. Adding 1 more second to ‘revealed’ will do nothing to fix this.

nothing.

You already tried? And culling was the major issue of players vs thieves. Ah, you know everything, and you already played this patch for 20 hours, and YOU KNOW it will change nothing? Please…

And you know culling was the major issue of players vs thieves? Ah, you know everything…

Explain how culling will suddenly allow players to kill thieves who can restealth within 4 seconds and run away.

Maybe with some practice? A bit learning of the class itself? I use no stealth in my build and people still cannot down me that fast. And now what? I destroy stealth thieves WITHOUT stealth, how is that possible?

Oh, yes, you know everything, and i do not know my thief…Probably i killed only lvl 10, right? Lol…whiners will whine.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Dawdler.8521:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Don’t forget that, outside of a 100b warrior or another thief, there really isn’t any class that could kill a thief that quickly.

A Mesmer can range burst down an unwary glass cannon thief in a couple of seconds (GS 4, 2, 3, F1 should just about do it)

That combo won’t come close to killing even a glass cannon thief. And in WvW, everyone is rocking PVT gear.

Bad troll is bad imo…saying everyone is wearing PVT when he was stating a Mesmer could kill a GS thief…Seems to me hes referring to a mesmer is Dps gear not PVT. Stop stretching to try and make you point…

Thedenofsin.7340:

That combo won’t come close to killing even a glass cannon thief. And in WvW, everyone is rocking PVT gear.

A glass cannon thief would by definition not be wearing PVT gear and only have around 12-13K HP, which is easily enough for that combo. I assumed a Mesmer in equal glass cannon gear. Why on earth would everyone have PVT gear when that is dismissed easily just by playing the game and seeing the many variations in builds in action? O.o

Sureshot.6725:

Zikory.6871:

Bad troll is bad imo…saying everyone is wearing PVT when he was stating a Mesmer could kill a GS thief…Seems to me hes referring to a mesmer is Dps gear not PVT. Stop stretching to try and make you point…

Yea…Either the OP is a troll or a narcissist. Either way he is not worthy of rational dialogue. Judging changes before they can be properly evaluated in game is weak sauce.

I’ve evaluated stealth. There is no noticeable difference. Stealth nerf is a myth.

This nerf is much bigger than most realize. It hits an entire trait line in the face.

Here’s what it affects for my balanced (10/30/30) build
-blind on stealth goes from 3s cd to 4s cd
-cd on healing in stealth goes from 3s to 4s.
-cd on bs 3 to 4s (huge dps nerf)
-cd on condition removal 3s to 4s

So I received nerfs to damage and survivability beyond just having more visability. Meanwhile instagib thieves remain untouched because they don’t use the survivability from the shadow arts trait line.

Dakarius.3284:

This nerf is much bigger than most realize

No it’s not, the sky did not fall. Go play your thief like I did just now and tell me if you even notice anything. I didn’t (and I have 30 Shadow Arts).

Im just waiting for the thieves to start claiming they are now underpowered. Its coming, I would almost guarantee it.

As for the fixes, just have to see how it works out. Always takes a bit to really start seeing the differences, and culling alone is a pretty substantial change (not just for thieves).

That is all.

Tuluum.9638:

Im just waiting for the thieves to start claiming they are now underpowered. Its coming, I would almost guarantee it.

As for the fixes, just have to see how it works out. Always takes a bit to really start seeing the differences, and culling alone is a pretty substantial change (not just for thieves).

That is all.

I would have to agree, No one can state either way this early. Basing it off the few fights you might have had on the first day a major patch is released isn’t enough grounds to make a solid statement. The one second might have a effect on the stealth related traits and I feel that will be the biggest “nerf” but as for 1 extra second out of stealth probably won’t be that big of a deal and good thieves will adapt accordingly.

Tuluum.9638:

Im just waiting for the thieves to start claiming they are now underpowered. Its coming, I would almost guarantee it.

As for the fixes, just have to see how it works out. Always takes a bit to really start seeing the differences, and culling alone is a pretty substantial change (not just for thieves).

That is all.

So far, i still see only other complaining that thieves are still OP. Not vice versa.

I thought that ANet said in an interview that the CD to stealth (revealed) was going to happen when exiting stealth regardless of how you exit stealth. Did I misunderstand or remember incorrectly?

D W.5179:

I thought that ANet said in an interview that the CD to stealth (revealed) was going to happen when exiting stealth regardless of how you exit stealth. Did I misunderstand or remember incorrectly?

They did say that in the SotG but after review they decided against it as they felt that plus culling fix would be a bit to much based on there internal testing. There is a Dev Post on the thief forums about it.

Zikory.6871:

D W.5179:

I thought that ANet said in an interview that the CD to stealth (revealed) was going to happen when exiting stealth regardless of how you exit stealth. Did I misunderstand or remember incorrectly?

They did say that in the SotG but after review they decided against it as they felt that plus culling fix would be a bit to much based on there internal testing. There is a Dev Post on the thief forums about it.

Ah okay, thank you.
This is the problem with communications coming from all over the place instead of one controlled organized place, like the official forums. I never know where to get my GW2 news from LOL.

Skaven Zverov.2984:

So far, i still see only other complaining that thieves are still OP. Not vice versa.

I am pretty sure that when anyone gets beat by a class, it has nothing to do with skill.

I have even seen rangers and engis called OP. I dont give much credence to it, but if you really feel thieves werent a faceroll class before.. dont know what to tell ya! I deleted my thief (in full exos, though I did salvage them!) because I prefer a challenge. I will admit, Id like to try it out with these changes, but it will have to wait until I have another character slot.

I feel the same way about ele, for the most part. Though, I am a bit outspoken on that one. I just tell my fellow eles to go into each fight and just press 1-2-3-4-5 and switch attunement, then rinse and repeat. Surprising how good the class still is, but its mainly the arcana bunker which is the issue (thats rarely brought up). Just my opinion, of course.

Tuluum.9638:

Skaven Zverov.2984:

So far, i still see only other complaining that thieves are still OP. Not vice versa.

I am pretty sure that when anyone gets beat by a class, it has nothing to do with skill.

I have even seen rangers and engis called OP. I dont give much credence to it, but if you really feel thieves werent a faceroll class before.. dont know what to tell ya! I deleted my thief (in full exos, though I did salvage them!) because I prefer a challenge. I will admit, Id like to try it out with these changes, but it will have to wait until I have another character slot.

I feel the same way about ele, for the most part. Though, I am a bit outspoken on that one. I just tell my fellow eles to go into each fight and just press 1-2-3-4-5 and switch attunement, then rinse and repeat. Surprising how good the class still is, but its mainly the arcana bunker which is the issue (thats rarely brought up). Just my opinion, of course.

I am not saying there weren’t, never did say that. But only 1 build was viable to call OP. Same for Mes, W, Ele…I play without stealth, and still is very competitive. This is about stealth, not one build. And, for example, i had a massive problems with DD ele’s until i made one myself and learn the class. From then, it is MUCH MUCH easier to deal with them. Same applies for Thieves.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Changing the revealed buff from 3 seconds to 4 seconds is going to do nothing to fix the extensive thief problem in WvW. Now players have 4 seconds to drop a thief from 100% —> 0% instead of 3.

Oh, and don’t forget all haste has been dropped by 50%, so if you could drop a thief in 3 seconds using haste, you’ll probably need at least 6 now. Meanwhile, back in game, you get this stuff:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQDkXeE_UY
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8S60VHTxAA
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPYzItX8mmA
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XubClqLgJnY
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQDkXeE_UY

I’d challenge any ArenaNet developer come to this forum, watch these videos and explain exactly how this kind of gameplay is fun for anyone other than the thief.

It’s bad gameplay and there is no excuse for letting it persist as long as it has.

/Kneejerk

Skaven Zverov.2984:

I am not saying there weren’t, never did say that. But only 1 build was viable to call OP. Same for Mes, W, Ele…I play without stealth, and still is very competitive. This is about stealth, not one build. And, for example, i had a massive problems with DD ele’s until i made one myself and learn the class. From then, it is MUCH MUCH easier to deal with them. Same applies for Thieves.

Eh, I found the mechanics behind the thief class to be the root, whereas with ele I found it to be one build. Hopefully with culling removed, it makes an impact. When I had my thief, I suspected culling was the major culprit of the faceroll, so we will see. At the very least, it was what needed to change before ANY nerfs happen to thief, imo. I am one of the few that doesnt see a huge issue with confusion either, so.. just take it for what its worth. Most wont agree with me on many things, and thats ok.

I have levelled both ele and thief (amongst other classes) to 80, as well as tried dozens and dozens of builds for each. Theorycrafting/testing is one of my joys in games like this. I am well aware of the strengths/weaknesses of each class, I just have an opinion about it.

D W.5179:

This is the problem with communications coming from all over the place instead of one controlled organized place, like the official forums. I never know where to get my GW2 news from LOL.

^this^ … a hundred times ^this^

ANet has the most ridiculous and disorganized concept of how to communicate with their players base. Some things show up only on Twitter or Facebook, some show up only on third party fan websites, some show up only in convention interviews, some show up in separate dev blogs, and a few show up in one forum thread but not the official announcement thread. It’s totally haphazard and makes ANet look like noobs from a media coordination point of view.

Cactus.2710:

D W.5179:

This is the problem with communications coming from all over the place instead of one controlled organized place, like the official forums. I never know where to get my GW2 news from LOL.

^this^ … a hundred times ^this^

ANet has the most ridiculous and disorganized concept of how to communicate with their players base. Some things show up only on Twitter or Facebook, some show up only on third party fan websites, some show up only in convention interviews, some show up in separate dev blogs, and a few show up in one forum thread but not the official announcement thread. It’s totally haphazard and makes ANet look like noobs from a media coordination point of view.

To be blunt, I dont even bother looking for them anymore. I just wait until its in-game and then test everything out. I will check out the update notes, but those are usually only released within hours of the update.

Dakarius.3284:

This nerf is much bigger than most realize. It hits an entire trait line in the face.

Here’s what it affects for my balanced (10/30/30) build
-blind on stealth goes from 3s cd to 4s cd
-cd on healing in stealth goes from 3s to 4s.
-cd on bs 3 to 4s (huge dps nerf)
-cd on condition removal 3s to 4s

So I received nerfs to damage and survivability beyond just having more visability. Meanwhile instagib thieves remain untouched because they don’t use the survivability from the shadow arts trait line.

I play a thief, and if you think this is a huge nerf, you’re lying so you don’t get nerfed more.

You will not land stealth every 3 seconds on the dot everytime…Unless you’re chaining stealth over and over again with CnD which most didn’t.

You will not notice this change at all in actual WvW.

They Copped Out of actually making stealth require a semblance of skill and decided to go with this pathetic measure so they didn’t hurt the easiest of classes to play.

Xsorus.2507:

Dakarius.3284:

This nerf is much bigger than most realize. It hits an entire trait line in the face.

Here’s what it affects for my balanced (10/30/30) build
-blind on stealth goes from 3s cd to 4s cd
-cd on healing in stealth goes from 3s to 4s.
-cd on bs 3 to 4s (huge dps nerf)
-cd on condition removal 3s to 4s

So I received nerfs to damage and survivability beyond just having more visability. Meanwhile instagib thieves remain untouched because they don’t use the survivability from the shadow arts trait line.

I play a thief, and if you think this is a huge nerf, you’re lying so you don’t get nerfed more.

You will not land stealth every 3 seconds on the dot everytime…Unless you’re chaining stealth over and over again with CnD which most didn’t.

You will not notice this change at all in actual WvW.

They Copped Out of actually making stealth require a semblance of skill and decided to go with this pathetic measure so they didn’t hurt the easiest of classes to play.

Pretty much this ^

Xsorus.2507:

They Copped Out of actually making stealth require a semblance of skill and decided to go with this pathetic measure so they didn’t hurt the easiest of classes to play.

If they had done it differently, thief would be my main character in a hot second.

As it is, I find much more depth in other classes. I wanted to make a “bandit” style character, and actually ended up with the ranger (though the build evolved drastically after the thread I made before even starting the character).

The Revealed was there to stop cloak and dagger to instantly stealth again which was making it virtually impossible to target a theif and do damage or stun them.

Now that has been fixed I really dont see a problem with killing theifs. If you cant stun or damage a thief in 3 secs then this game is maybe too fast paced for you :/

BossFi.6917:

The Revealed was there to stop cloak and dagger to instantly stealth again which was making it virtually impossible to target a theif and do damage or stun them.

Now that has been fixed I really dont see a problem with killing theifs. If you cant stun or damage a thief in 3 secs then this game is maybe too fast paced for you :/

That’s just it, you can still instantly stealth again with CnD. Not sure which thieves you’ve been killing but they’re doing it wrong.

BossFi.6917:

The Revealed was there to stop cloak and dagger to instantly stealth again which was making it virtually impossible to target a theif and do damage or stun them.

Now that has been fixed I really dont see a problem with killing theifs. If you cant stun or damage a thief in 3 secs then this game is maybe too fast paced for you :/

revealed only applies if one attacks from stealth.
if one waits for the stealth timer to be nearly up and uses CnD just as it wears off it pops them right back into stealth.

this change to revealed and/or the culling does not have any effect on CnD spam perma stealth whatsoever.

BossFi.6917:

The Revealed was there to stop cloak and dagger to instantly stealth again which was making it virtually impossible to target a theif and do damage or stun them.

Now that has been fixed I really dont see a problem with killing theifs. If you cant stun or damage a thief in 3 secs then this game is maybe too fast paced for you :/

Yeah, just as an FYI, even though they stated differently in the State of the Game thing, they did not actually implement the revealed debuff as they said. AFAIK, they made no changes whatsoever to revealed beyond length and culling (which is should make revealed actually, you know, work!).

I am actually ok with that personally, since we need to see how culling affects play. That said, mentioning it as a foregone conclusion in the SotG only to not implement it, points to one of two things to me; either they had massive miscommunication, or they made an extremely quick decision. Both are not good issues, in my book.

I find it laughable that people can whine so much about a few cheesers that can permastealth. In wow, a rogue can be stealthed out of combat FOREVER. FOR-E-VER!

And not a single kitten was given in that game. Ofc when u enter combat it is another thing. But with the recent nerf, we are going to have to stay in fight longer after using a backstab. Is it the Shadow Arts build everyone is complaining about? Whatever it is, I hate to be “that guy” and say this, but roll one yourself if you are so kitten jelly

Dawdler.8521:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Don’t forget that, outside of a 100b warrior or another thief, there really isn’t any class that could kill a thief that quickly.

A Mesmer can range burst down an unwary glass cannon thief in a couple of seconds (GS 4, 2, 3, F1 should just about do it)

Either way, I wonder how much of a nerf this really is. As I have understood it, revealed only occur when you attack from stealth? So if you stealth, appear and then attack you can restealth instantly. Basicly, it only nerf the backstab skill by adding an extra second before the thief can restealth. Which is nothing.

It is quite dissapointing. This does absolutely nothing for multi-veiling zergs or perma-stealth thieves.

nice try to bring up Mesmer using GS, however, the iBerzerker is broken now, it’s doing less damage, Anet knows it and didnt fix it. I think a nerf to thief indirectly makes Anet devs want to stealth nerf others.

bla bla klaps klaps klaps its so hard for me to stun or imobilise a thief and then aoe because i have 3 fingers..Anyway the game at this state is zerg vs zerg most of the time and thief besides daggerstorm and clusterbomb is kinda useless..
Nerf daggerstorm next

Thedenofsin.7340:

Changing the revealed buff from 3 seconds to 4 seconds is going to do nothing to fix the extensive thief problem in WvW. Now players have 4 seconds to drop a thief from 100% —> 0% instead of 3.

Oh, and don’t forget all haste has been dropped by 50%, so if you could drop a thief in 3 seconds using haste, you’ll probably need at least 6 now. Meanwhile, back in game, you get this stuff:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQDkXeE_UY
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8S60VHTxAA
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPYzItX8mmA
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XubClqLgJnY
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciQDkXeE_UY

I’d challenge any ArenaNet developer come to this forum, watch these videos and explain exactly how this kind of gameplay is fun for anyone other than the thief.

It’s bad gameplay and there is no excuse for letting it persist as long as it has.

Rabble rabble rabble.

The change is good enough. You just want to see thieves nerfed into oblivion.

Maladon.5760:

Xsorus.2507:

Dakarius.3284:

This nerf is much bigger than most realize. It hits an entire trait line in the face.

Here’s what it affects for my balanced (10/30/30) build
-blind on stealth goes from 3s cd to 4s cd
-cd on healing in stealth goes from 3s to 4s.
-cd on bs 3 to 4s (huge dps nerf)
-cd on condition removal 3s to 4s

So I received nerfs to damage and survivability beyond just having more visability. Meanwhile instagib thieves remain untouched because they don’t use the survivability from the shadow arts trait line.

I play a thief, and if you think this is a huge nerf, you’re lying so you don’t get nerfed more.

You will not land stealth every 3 seconds on the dot everytime…Unless you’re chaining stealth over and over again with CnD which most didn’t.

You will not notice this change at all in actual WvW.

They Copped Out of actually making stealth require a semblance of skill and decided to go with this pathetic measure so they didn’t hurt the easiest of classes to play.

Pretty much this ^

I probably don’t land a C&D on the dot after 3 seconds when Revealed expires EVERY single time, but I certainly try, as it’s the most efficient timing in terms of damage/control, and do end up getting it more often than not. With this change, when I do land it at the 3 seconds mark, it will be a huge setback for me because I just wasted 6 ini and am still not stealthed due to the extra second on revealed…

That is more of a playstyle thing and I’ll get used to it eventually, but the nerf itself is quite significant when you consider that it increases the effective cooldown of ALL stealth related attacks, abilities, and trait effects across the board. In fact I’d say it’s probably more drastic than the nerf proposed in SotG.

I’m a bit puzzled as to why they decided to hold off on that proposed change, the one that could actually solve glaring issues with the class, yet go ahead with a huge blanket nerf like this.

Xsorus.2507:

You will not land stealth every 3 seconds on the dot everytime…Unless you’re chaining stealth over and over again with CnD which most didn’t.

Yes and no to this comment. It depends on how many targets you have around you. If you’re doing a 1v1 or a 1v2, landing a CnD is quite challenging if your opponents are actually moving. In a larger fight or in tight environments (I’m look at you Pangloss camp and passages to SM castle lord), it’s pretty easy to hit something in melee range.

For those complaining about S/D and how you can no longer perma-daze someone if you “play skillfully” by sticking to them in melee range: Tactical strike daze is 2s and a sigil of paralyzation should only be a 15% buff (i.e. 2.3 seconds, which is pretty much 2 seconds). I guess that sigil is still broken because it adds a full second to the daze. Daze-locking was always a bug and it would have been fixed sooner or later.

After all these months of play, it’s quite obvious Thieves are the Dev’s pet favorite. It’s not going to change any time soon. They obviously believe frustration is fun. How and why they come to this conclusion, Idk. But, it’s the only explanation for this…..

I simply imagine a bunch of 20 something Dev’s giggling as they watch Thieves decimate players. Like it’s, “ZOMG… awesome, Brah!” or wth….

DeWolfe.2174:

After all these months of play, it’s quite obvious Thieves are the Dev’s pet favorite. It’s not going to change any time soon. They obviously believe frustration is fun. How and why they come to this conclusion, Idk. But, it’s the only explanation for this…..

I simply imagine a bunch of 20 something Dev’s giggling as they watch Thieves decimate players. Like it’s, “ZOMG… awesome, Brah!” or wth….

I don’t know about “Dev’s pet favorite” If that was the case they would have not added the one second and said we fixed culling! Go kitten your self…but they made a change and want to see it play out. Its better then adding to much and fully breaking the class then having to fix it.