I really would like to see a dev trying to carry a truck because that is the same as current joke – 1 person able to contest a fully upgraded keep/tower.
It should take more then 5 to contest a fully upgraded structure.
Small scale roamer action should be respectfully related to camps less upgraded structers or roaming around killing solos but not contesting fully upgraded Keeps because it literally invalidates the idea of WvW ( a fight on a massive scale )
Edit: just wanted to clarify as many pointed out that the main problem is not 1 man being able to pop white swords (because scouts exist for reason) but 1 man being able to contest the T3 Keep and it main feature – the Waypoint.
(edited by Luna.9640)
Game is ment to be super simple and easy for even awfull players….. every one is rewarded and carried to loook efective even on single player contesting and capping a tower/keep.
They need to reward everyone actions to count as something or atleast feel that way.
Anet dont even want to make WvW a team game, its a ktrain or cap something alone in a empty map.
Devs have always said that WvW is for large scale combat. However, they also said it can even be for the lowest level character to contribute.
WvW isn’t just for map queue blobs full of lvl 80 players.
Brilliant idea!
I’ve seen players solo keeps before but I need a friend to help. If I’m solo I can still take the walls down though and call the rest of the team in when the time is right. If it takes 5+ to contest the keep then one or two of us can take it without risking anyone coming to defend! This would make life sooo much easier.
Or perhaps I should respectfully go and take a camp somewhere and sit around looking at all the T3 stuff while waiting to win? No, somehow I don’t think I will.
Yes it’s a pain when a perma stealth thief (or equivalent) can contest the WP so easily. Sometimes it’s ambient creatures. But without those little white swords the game would be much harder to play – we know because ANET removed them a couple of years ago, and they were quickly reinstated.
Stealth cant contest/cap stuff, same goes for players that pull invunerability o.O
If its working… well another gimmick to be abused since it will never(probably) be fixed… i hope soemday a server runs full of stealth thiefs to show Anet how bad the game is ATM and didnt evolve nothing from its release, it has beed a dowgrade most of the time.
The quantity of additions/changes the game suffered doest mean they have been increasing quallity as well…..
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
I 100% disagree. WvW needs more incentives to run in smaller groups, not yet another incentive to zerg up
I 100% disagree. WvW needs more incentives to run in smaller groups, not yet another incentive to zerg up
That means change alot of things in the game…..and that is not what Anet have been done.
Changes that Anet chooses to make actually makes blob even more desirable and easy to carry its players.
I 100% disagree. WvW needs more incentives to run in smaller groups, not yet another incentive to zerg up
That means change alot of things in the game…..and that is not what Anet have been done.
Changes that Anet chooses to make actually makes blob even more desirable and easy to carry its players.
I know, which I hate. I hate zergs, hate being in them, hate fighting them, hate seeing them roll over everything hitting 1-1-1-1-1. I wish most groups were less than 10 players, with exceptions for upgraded keeps, SM, or just large scale brawls.
One person can take a keep.
I wouldn’t enjoy a gamemode where the only way to know something’s safe for sure is to constantly watch all of its destructible bits. As a previous poster mentioned, we’ve been through that.
Keep the swords. If someone wants to sit next to a keep all day tapping it, good on them.
~ Kovu
(edited by Kovu.7560)
I can see 2 solutions for this :
And I agree with OriOri and Aeolus. Zergs are to be discouraged by any possible mean.
I 100% disagree. WvW needs more incentives to run in smaller groups, not yet another incentive to zerg up
I see where you’re coming from with this, but I disagree with it. As an MMO this game should encourage teamwork and planning, not lone wolf style game-play. Besides we’re not talking about 10 ppl not being able to contest a keep, it’s really directed more at the Nomad’s Theif who’s only purpose in life is to attack a guard at your keep and run away every 3 min.
Here’s my idea:
- Camps takes 1 Enemy in combat to contest.*1
- Towers takes 3 Enemies in combat to contest. *1 *2
- Keeps takes 5 Enemies in combat to contest. *1 *2
- SMC takes 5 Enemies in combat to contest. *1 *2
*1 If a guard or native siege weapon is killed/destroyed the objective become contested regardless of the number of nearby enemies. (Gives intensive as well to avoid T3 patrols)
*2 Or walls are damaged, gates need to take at least 5% of their health in damage before counting as “damaged”.
YTKafka.4681, having smaller teams does not means less team gameplay it actually means that those teams or guilds need to sperate more and comunitcate better have a better team work that aoe spam at range everything, the actuall ktrain or blob system have alot of week teamplay(its zero teamplay compared with the mmo’s i plyed in the past) compared with most mmo’s old and new…
And GW2 isnt about team work atm… That stayed in GW1.
I think SMC should have several place to get conquered, if blobs invades, SMC to be fully conquested needs a seconds floor shrine to be fully capped, still it requires redesign somehitng and that falls from the cliff…
Still… this is a dead horse talk when we talk about change something that is working for Anet… and Anet dont want to improve WvW since would meant add stuff that would put the game doing more than they wanted.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Contesting needs to be changed, its long overdue. Sneezing on a guard and keeping a waypoint unusable for 3 minutes is very annoying. They need to change it so that a keep actually needs to take damage, or a veteran guard needs to be killed in order to contest the keep. But also as long as the lord is in combat, that should continue to keep the waypoint contested.
I 100% disagree. WvW needs more incentives to run in smaller groups, not yet another incentive to zerg up
I see where you’re coming from with this, but I disagree with it. As an MMO this game should encourage teamwork and planning, not lone wolf style game-play. Besides we’re not talking about 10 ppl not being able to contest a keep, it’s really directed more at the Nomad’s Theif who’s only purpose in life is to attack a guard at your keep and run away every 3 min.
Here’s my idea:
- Camps takes 1 Enemy in combat to contest.*1
- Towers takes 3 Enemies in combat to contest. *1 *2
- Keeps takes 5 Enemies in combat to contest. *1 *2
- SMC takes 5 Enemies in combat to contest. *1 *2*1 If a guard or native siege weapon is killed/destroyed the objective become contested regardless of the number of nearby enemies. (Gives intensive as well to avoid T3 patrols)
*2 Or walls are damaged, gates need to take at least 5% of their health in damage before counting as “damaged”.
A 3-4 person group is a far cry from a “lone wolf”. We need more small groups, more solo roamers, and fewer zergs that can roll over anything, including SMC
agree 1 person should not make a wp contested, just like orange xsword u need like 25+. 1 person however can make white xsword.
Devs have always said that WvW is for large scale combat. However, they also said it can even be for the lowest level character to contribute.
WvW isn’t just for map queue blobs full of lvl 80 players.
Roamers contribute without contesting objectives. I agree with the OP its ridiculous how easy it is to contest.
Yes, please implement this!
This will be an awesome asset for when I solo towers or duo keeps!
No alarm!
agree 1 person should not make a wp contested, just like orange xsword u need like 25+. 1 person however can make white xsword.
The number of people involved is irrelevant, what needs to be changed is the mechanics. Making something impossible to do with 1 person is unfair. A regular guard should have to be killed, and/or a structure should need to take some form of damage before being contested, this way it is possible for any individual or group to do.
Well that would punish players that like to solo cap empty stuff (some players belivve that is their player skill… that is doing the work), isnt the game designed for everyone well…. get stuff done w/o much effort so every one is rewarded???
For sure to compensate they would ended broking of other things to compensate this…. change.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
I agree, and its weird that they haven’t already changed this. Maybe its tricky to accurately register a certain amount of people that are attacking a specific objective? Anyway, if they could, it would be great to have something like this. I was thinking of the number of people required going up with the type of objective and what tier it is, but that wouldn’t work for smaller population servers, which is most at this point. Number of players req’d to pop swords could potentially be an incentive to run smaller numbers, but it just wouldn’t work with the amount of players we got now. A flat requirement of 5 people seems fair I guess, and also do trebs put swords on an objective? If so then they shouldn’t imo.
(edited by Stand The Wall.6987)
Well gw2 isnt a team game, it pretends to be a team game… but yeah forcing at least 5 player to cap anything outside camps would be interesting to see how it rolls.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
I agree, and its weird that they haven’t already changed this. Maybe its tricky to accurately register a certain amount of people that are attacking a specific objective? Anyway, if they could, it would be great to have something like this. I was thinking of the number of people required going up with the type of objective and what tier it is, but that wouldn’t work. A flat requirement of 5 people seems fair I guess, and also do trebs put swords on an objective? If so then they shouldn’t imo.
The main problem is the mechanics, in that the contesting of waypoints and the popping of swords are basically treated the same way. This is where it can be either annoying or helpful depending on what side you are on. Now if they were to separate the mechanics and have it work differently, then it might make things a lot simpler.
Swords should be popped as normal, waypoints should be changed to go contested when a guard is killed, the lord is taking damage, or there is damage done to the keep. The current mechanics allow anyone to basically sneeze on a guard and make the keep’s waypoint unusable for 3 minutes, while still popping swords causing scouts to constantly have to check everywhere and many times not finding anything because a tapper doesn’t have to do much of anything to keep the waypoint unusable and would have already left the area.
Well gw2 isnt a team game, it pretends to be a team game… but yeah forcing at least 5 player to cap anything outside camps would be interesting to see how it rolls.
Team yes, but that doesnt mean its forced on anyone nor should it be. Having to call for people on the map to come to your position just to help you capture something you can do yourself is not good for the game. One of the best ways to encourage people into jumping into WvW is to show them how every individual can contribute, whether they are in a group or not.
Indeed but the mechanics the game overall, dont offer nothing for that, the only thing ANet has done for players think that, is to instant reward you even when u sneeze, and imo it is a awfull aproach.
I dont see how that could be done with what we have to play with.
Map design, how is easy is to play stacked, lack of guild and gameplay structure, ic several factors workign here, that usually do the otherway of showing people how they can contribute when server is overstacked to melt structures.
We could waste time theorizing what lacks and what Anet coul do with the actually existent mechanics game have, would be a talk over a dead horse. :\
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
As a roamer, I’d be more than happy for this change to occur but white swords on upgraded then also CAN’T be triggered by fewer than five people.
Then, when I’ve taken your upgraded structure and you’ve had no warning, we can come back to the post on this forum that’ll inevitably follow.
One change I would like to see is to not have WPs be contested until either a wall/gate is down.
One change I would like to see is to not have WPs be contested until either a wall/gate is down.
Careful for what you wish for. Those swords can mean the difference between defending lords room and getting there JUST as it flips. One gate down and no immediate defenders … Might as well just hand it to them.
Have it affect WPs and attackers might as well not attack. People can insta port in.
@Jayne, actually that happens alot for smaller servers that Anet put facing against much bigger servers, some servers are under that pressure 24/7 over the week and this is when that smaller server has its big peak of population, ( the actual scrore hides alot how some servers are just being ktrained).
I guess it would make even more easy for big servers response over small servers atacks, it would be a dangerous move w/o changing how other stuff works.
I don’t particularly mind a single person being able to contest a keep but the change to just having to get a guard in combat was not a good one.
On the topic of tower contesting, I would actually want them to rework the watchtower tactic to only mark enemies after a certain threshold is reached such as more than 5 people around the tower. That one tactic gutted the ability’s of small havok teams more than any other change since HoT
One change I would like to see is to not have WPs be contested until either a wall/gate is down.
Careful for what you wish for. Those swords can mean the difference between defending lords room and getting there JUST as it flips. One gate down and no immediate defenders … Might as well just hand it to them.
Have it affect WPs and attackers might as well not attack. People can insta port in.
I only want to change how the WPs are contested, not how the orange swords spawn. Those should stay the same, but it just doesn’t make sense for one person to knock a WP out of commission by doing almost nothing. And, having the WP still be uncontested until the outer wall is down gives that server more of a chance of getting there to defend. It might be too long, so maybe when walls/gates are at 50% might be better but still.
Also, if at all possible (though I highly doubt it), someone who hits a gate, then runs away mmediately as soon as you come up to fight them, rinse and repeat should never, ever be able to contest anything.
I don’t particularly mind a single person being able to contest a keep but the change to just having to get a guard in combat was not a good one.
On the topic of tower contesting, I would actually want them to rework the watchtower tactic to only mark enemies after a certain threshold is reached such as more than 5 people around the tower. That one tactic gutted the ability’s of small havok teams more than any other change since HoT
This would be a good change as well
One change I would like to see is to not have WPs be contested until either a wall/gate is down.
Careful for what you wish for. Those swords can mean the difference between defending lords room and getting there JUST as it flips. One gate down and no immediate defenders … Might as well just hand it to them.
Have it affect WPs and attackers might as well not attack. People can insta port in.
I only want to change how the WPs are contested, not how the orange swords spawn. Those should stay the same, but it just doesn’t make sense for one person to knock a WP out of commission by doing almost nothing. And, having the WP still be uncontested until the outer wall is down gives that server more of a chance of getting there to defend. It might be too long, so maybe when walls/gates are at 50% might be better but still.
Also, if at all possible (though I highly doubt it), someone who hits a gate, then runs away mmediately as soon as you come up to fight them, rinse and repeat should never, ever be able to contest anything.
There’s strategy involved in the pizza delivery model.
Contest the centre keep on alpine and force your opponent to have to run all the way from spawn to get to a keep under attack. Any delay can mean victory if timed well.
Yes, lets make it so you’re forced to blob up to do anything anymore. you people really dont think of the long term consequences when you ask for stuff like this do you? Anet has been making things more and more blob friendly over the past few years and making stuff more annoying for smaller groups, and now you’re asking for more of that crap? You must be dumb. The population is decreasing because of idiotic changes like this that favor blobbing up. When will you zerglings learn that alot of us don’t want to have to group up to do everything? Just because YOU are incapable of doing things without a large group to hold your hand for you while you do it, doesn’t mean everyone else is like that too.
If anything, they need to make it so single players have even more impact than they do now and incentivize splitting into smaller groups rather than 1 map blob to do everything. You asked for changes that drove the gvg guilds away and the population took a massive nosedive. You continue to ask for changes to favor skill-less blobs afterwards. You wont be happy until more people leave and they’re forced to merge everyone into 1 server. then you can all omniblob, pressing 1 together to your hearts content.
Yes, lets make it so you’re forced to blob up to do anything anymore. you people really dont think of the long term consequences when you ask for stuff like this do you?
Its not like this is the only or even main activity for roamers so you’re drawing a long bow there. I don’t think its too much to ask for a guard to be actually killed or for the objective to be damaged even slightly to draw swords.
The only players likely to be affected would be the OCD idiots that sit near an objective for hours and running in to contest it every few minutes. Its not reasonable for a garrison or EB keep to be unable to be waypointed to for literally hours due to these players who have to effectively do nothing to contest the waypoint.
Add 10 min reveal to anyone who contests anything.
Add 10 min reveal to anyone who contests anything.
Lol if only, Death to stealth!
Yes, lets make it so you’re forced to blob up to do anything anymore. you people really dont think of the long term consequences when you ask for stuff like this do you?
Its not like this is the only or even main activity for roamers so you’re drawing a long bow there. I don’t think its too much to ask for a guard to be actually killed or for the objective to be damaged even slightly to draw swords.
The only players likely to be affected would be the OCD idiots that sit near an objective for hours and running in to contest it every few minutes. Its not reasonable for a garrison or EB keep to be unable to be waypointed to for literally hours due to these players who have to effectively do nothing to contest the waypoint.
You and I both know Anet doesnt have the competence to do it the right way anyway. You’re expecting a small change, they will go completely overboard and we’ll have more pve crap and siege shoved down our throat. All guards would end up being champ level and you’d need 5 people just to take a sentry, or you’d need 10 to pound on a gate for half an hour to contest it. And yes, I believe 1 person SHOULD be able to keep a wp permanently contested. Post scouts and look for the guy, drop stealth traps and kill him. There are solutions to this that dont require adding more pve and making the game more blob friendly. If 1 thief is keeping it contested, send another thief on your side to go kill him.
The reason why they tap on the keep is because they know they can do it and get away with it. Because 95% of the people are idiots and will just cry in map chat about 1 guy contesting it and run away from him rather than try to kill him. I’ve seen this first hand when I tap keeps. They dont even try to engage me. Stare at me like scared deer in the headlights of a car and watch me tap it, and run away from me when i try to attack them. I do it because they’re stupid and allow me to do it. When other thieves do it to my keep ya know what I do? I dont cry about it on the forums. I get on my trapper ranger or dh and wait for them to come back to the spot, then laugh at them when they step on it and die instantly.
One change I would like to see is to not have WPs be contested until either a wall/gate is down.
Careful for what you wish for. Those swords can mean the difference between defending lords room and getting there JUST as it flips. One gate down and no immediate defenders … Might as well just hand it to them.
Have it affect WPs and attackers might as well not attack. People can insta port in.
I only want to change how the WPs are contested, not how the orange swords spawn. Those should stay the same, but it just doesn’t make sense for one person to knock a WP out of commission by doing almost nothing. And, having the WP still be uncontested until the outer wall is down gives that server more of a chance of getting there to defend. It might be too long, so maybe when walls/gates are at 50% might be better but still.
Also, if at all possible (though I highly doubt it), someone who hits a gate, then runs away mmediately as soon as you come up to fight them, rinse and repeat should never, ever be able to contest anything.
There’s strategy involved in the pizza delivery model.
Contest the centre keep on alpine and force your opponent to have to run all the way from spawn to get to a keep under attack. Any delay can mean victory if timed well.
I’m well aware of that strategy. I think its a bullkitten strategy that Anet should get rid of already. If you want to contest a WP then you should be putting serious pressure on that keep, not killing a guard or two that are roaming outside every couple minutes. That’s lazy and only requires a single person to hamper an entire servers’ ability to respond. That’s too much power put into a single person’s hands, too much. It’s just something that shouldn’t be happening. Go actually attack the keep and make a concentrated effort if you want to take down their WP.
“Hi! My blob can’t respond quick enough to defend our stuff because a thief keep taping our keep all day. Please make it impossible for it to happen so my blob can respond quicker so we can all go back to mowing down smaller groups and k-training faster. Ty”
“Hi! My blob can’t respond quick enough to defend our stuff because a thief keep taping our keep all day. Please make it impossible for it to happen so my blob can respond quicker so we can all go back to mowing down smaller groups and k-training faster. Ty”
Thank you for saying it for me. That’s pretty much exactly what I was thinking.
The only thing i currently dislike about contesting is that you only need to pull a guards attention vs what it used to be, actually tapping the gate.
This makes killing contesters harder as they can just pull a guard, and kitten off again.
“Hi! My blob can’t respond quick enough to defend our stuff because a thief keep taping our keep all day. Please make it impossible for it to happen so my blob can respond quicker so we can all go back to mowing down smaller groups and k-training faster. Ty”
Motives are irrelevant, its simply ludicrous that its that easy.;
One change I would like to see is to not have WPs be contested until either a wall/gate is down.
Careful for what you wish for. Those swords can mean the difference between defending lords room and getting there JUST as it flips. One gate down and no immediate defenders … Might as well just hand it to them.
Have it affect WPs and attackers might as well not attack. People can insta port in.
I only want to change how the WPs are contested, not how the orange swords spawn. Those should stay the same, but it just doesn’t make sense for one person to knock a WP out of commission by doing almost nothing. And, having the WP still be uncontested until the outer wall is down gives that server more of a chance of getting there to defend. It might be too long, so maybe when walls/gates are at 50% might be better but still.
Also, if at all possible (though I highly doubt it), someone who hits a gate, then runs away mmediately as soon as you come up to fight them, rinse and repeat should never, ever be able to contest anything.
There’s strategy involved in the pizza delivery model.
Contest the centre keep on alpine and force your opponent to have to run all the way from spawn to get to a keep under attack. Any delay can mean victory if timed well.
I’m well aware of that strategy. I think its a bullkitten strategy that Anet should get rid of already. If you want to contest a WP then you should be putting serious pressure on that keep, not killing a guard or two that are roaming outside every couple minutes. That’s lazy and only requires a single person to hamper an entire servers’ ability to respond. That’s too much power put into a single person’s hands, too much. It’s just something that shouldn’t be happening. Go actually attack the keep and make a concentrated effort if you want to take down their WP.
It’s not a bull-kitten strategy.
There are many viable counters to it; the prime one being jumping out of your keep and killing the guy who’s doing it. Over and over. Hiding behind the walls and pew pewing with siege won’t stop them – it just irritates them and makes them more determined.
I can think of five different ways to dissuade it.
The only thing i currently dislike about contesting is that you only need to pull a guards attention vs what it used to be, actually tapping the gate.
This makes killing contesters harder as they can just pull a guard, and kitten off again.
Yeah, there should be at least a door knock.
One change I would like to see is to not have WPs be contested until either a wall/gate is down.
Careful for what you wish for. Those swords can mean the difference between defending lords room and getting there JUST as it flips. One gate down and no immediate defenders … Might as well just hand it to them.
Have it affect WPs and attackers might as well not attack. People can insta port in.
I only want to change how the WPs are contested, not how the orange swords spawn. Those should stay the same, but it just doesn’t make sense for one person to knock a WP out of commission by doing almost nothing. And, having the WP still be uncontested until the outer wall is down gives that server more of a chance of getting there to defend. It might be too long, so maybe when walls/gates are at 50% might be better but still.
Also, if at all possible (though I highly doubt it), someone who hits a gate, then runs away mmediately as soon as you come up to fight them, rinse and repeat should never, ever be able to contest anything.
There’s strategy involved in the pizza delivery model.
Contest the centre keep on alpine and force your opponent to have to run all the way from spawn to get to a keep under attack. Any delay can mean victory if timed well.
I’m well aware of that strategy. I think its a bullkitten strategy that Anet should get rid of already. If you want to contest a WP then you should be putting serious pressure on that keep, not killing a guard or two that are roaming outside every couple minutes. That’s lazy and only requires a single person to hamper an entire servers’ ability to respond. That’s too much power put into a single person’s hands, too much. It’s just something that shouldn’t be happening. Go actually attack the keep and make a concentrated effort if you want to take down their WP.
It’s not a bull-kitten strategy.
There are many viable counters to it; the prime one being jumping out of your keep and killing the guy who’s doing it. Over and over. Hiding behind the walls and pew pewing with siege won’t stop them – it just irritates them and makes them more determined.
I can think of five different ways to dissuade it.
Your counter of jumping out doesn’t work. It’s a thief. Unless you want to tie up 5-10 people for hours on the off chance he comes back the likelihood is he will stealth and be out of range. Even if you camp both gates with people- at which point he’s won, as he’s tied up 10 players just to try and prevent him contesting (which is still very hard to do). It’s usually the same thief contesting other towers, capping guards, etc and sometimes 2-3 of them. If you do manage to kill him he’s back within 3 minutes anyway- if there is more than one of you spending time trying to kill him then he’s winning, tying up your players and making his team’s odds better elsewhere.
There is no viable foolproof counter to a lone thief contesting whatever he likes which doesn’t involve tying up many more on your side than his. It’s a broken mechanic that needs fixing.
If you’re playing in t1 or t2 then you probably don’t see the issue as you have bodies available.
Contesting should be done on damage to walls or gates, threshold set at 10k damage (ie one hit or so with a catapult/ram).
Scouting should be done by NPC’s so tactics would be send people around taking down NPCs on towers etc so your main party isn’t revealed if you want to ninja things until you get in – then Lord would reveal you anyway.
Wvw should encourage tactics and fights not karma training. When I’m ninja capping a tower with a couple of people the game should show us if an NPC spots us- after all, it might be my tactic to pull a larger force to us so our main force can attack SM or a keep or main tower elsewhere.
“Hi! My blob can’t respond quick enough to defend our stuff because a thief keep taping our keep all day. Please make it impossible for it to happen so my blob can respond quicker so we can all go back to mowing down smaller groups and k-training faster. Ty”
Motives are irrelevant, its simply ludicrous that its that easy.;
I used to think that contesting should only happen once a gate or wall took some damage (equivalent to a siege hit). But at this point, I can’t care enough…
It annoy me that the WP is always contested? Sure, I have to take a long walk if I die. But since combat isn’t fun anymore, why should I bother with minor nuissances? I could go back to caring about this stuff if the game became fun again. But in it’s current state, it doesn’t really matter to me.
I agree with OP. I think a small 5 man team should engage the structure in order to contest the waypoint. 1 man for white swords. This promotes havoc teams and still does not require a full zerg to do the job.
I like what someone mentioned about having to kill at least one guard.. that way they actually have to commit to their disruptive duty and stick a round for a bit instead of tap and teleport away.
That and swords etc should only pop when walls/gates take damage. If it’s from siege it apply like the current system after a while.. if it’s players PvD’ing then ~99% gate health then swords should appear.
I agree with OP. I think a small 5 man team should engage the structure in order to contest the waypoint. 1 man for white swords. This promotes havoc teams and still does not require a full zerg to do the job.
Terrible idea. And it doesn’t promote havoc either, unless you mean because people will feel compelled to group up to five.
You’re basically calling for a system whereby you can determine risk of losing a structure just from looking at the map. White swords on our keep but waypoint is clear? No problem… just ignore it unless it stays for several minutes. Then waypoint in and kill whoever figured they’d try to take it whenever you feel like it.
If you want to keep your waypoint, then you should give up your white swords.
I’m well aware of that strategy. I think its a bullkitten strategy that Anet should get rid of already. If you want to contest a WP then you should be putting serious pressure on that keep, not killing a guard or two that are roaming outside every couple minutes. That’s lazy and only requires a single person to hamper an entire servers’ ability to respond. That’s too much power put into a single person’s hands, too much. It’s just something that shouldn’t be happening. Go actually attack the keep and make a concentrated effort if you want to take down their WP.
It’s not a bull-kitten strategy.
There are many viable counters to it; the prime one being jumping out of your keep and killing the guy who’s doing it. Over and over. Hiding behind the walls and pew pewing with siege won’t stop them – it just irritates them and makes them more determined.
I can think of five different ways to dissuade it.
Your counter of jumping out doesn’t work. It’s a thief. Unless you want to tie up 5-10 people for hours on the off chance he comes back the likelihood is he will stealth and be out of range. Even if you camp both gates with people- at which point he’s won, as he’s tied up 10 players just to try and prevent him contesting (which is still very hard to do). It’s usually the same thief contesting other towers, capping guards, etc and sometimes 2-3 of them. If you do manage to kill him he’s back within 3 minutes anyway- if there is more than one of you spending time trying to kill him then he’s winning, tying up your players and making his team’s odds better elsewhere.
There is no viable foolproof counter to a lone thief contesting whatever he likes which doesn’t involve tying up many more on your side than his. It’s a broken mechanic that needs fixing.
If you’re playing in t1 or t2 then you probably don’t see the issue as you have bodies available.
Contesting should be done on damage to walls or gates, threshold set at 10k damage (ie one hit or so with a catapult/ram).
Scouting should be done by NPC’s so tactics would be send people around taking down NPCs on towers etc so your main party isn’t revealed if you want to ninja things until you get in – then Lord would reveal you anyway.
Wvw should encourage tactics and fights not karma training. When I’m ninja capping a tower with a couple of people the game should show us if an NPC spots us- after all, it might be my tactic to pull a larger force to us so our main force can attack SM or a keep or main tower elsewhere.
Thank you for realizing the problem with how stupidly easy it is to contest WPs in keeps. You should have to commit to it if you want to hamper an entire server’s ability to respond, not just hit a guard from stealth and run away before anyone can even see you. That is 100% pure kittening bullkitten.
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