Guild Wars 2

Sharpclaw.7510:

sinister.9216:

Keep the immaturity coming. We might not let you have a courtesy cap again later.

Ignoring what you will about your story about those FA player and their teeeeerrrrrifffying emotes, you do realize you told a story where the basic gist was:

“We took pity on you wretches of the earth, us mighty gods of lore, and you dareth hath the gall to fight against us?!”

I’m not a FA player. Heck, I’m TC and I’m busy enough that I haven’t been in game this week for more than 20 minutes but I’m going to make a suggestion here, in the spirit of decorum: don’t talk about immaturity when your entire post is laden with this really weird superiority thing.

“We let you take stuff, you poor dears.”, true or not, is a backwards way of telling people that they suck.

It’s what happens when you win by server transfer instead of fight. It’s like inheriting money instead of earning it. You just don’t quite understand the value of what you have so you slowly devolve into a worthless kitten.

*edit for spelling

sinister.9216:

One thing I must mention is the complete lack of good sportsmanship from FA. Yes, I know you’re getting beat. Badly. But its really no excuse to spam emotes at people. Yesterday I saw a group from FA with about 8-10 people in it. They pushed back the 5 BG people who were camping their spawn point. But the thing is, when they’d kill 1 person, the whole group would spam emotes like /laugh and they’d all jump and sit on the dead player.

Are you for real?

In every game like this, camping a spawn point is seen as a completely kitten move.

You deserve every insulting emote you get when you are spawn camping. There have been multiple complaints in this thread already about BG’s poor sportsmanship and taunts after running over TC and FA players with their omnipresent zerg, and if you are ALSO engaging in spawn camping it’s quite possible FA players have had enough with your rude, unsportsmanlike behavior.

There have been almost no rude emotes from opponents in all the previous matchups (maybe a couple from terrible sea of sorrows thieves) but now that we’re up against BG the number of such incidents is off the charts.

And you’re winning handily, so one would think you would be in a better mood. Server’s like maguuma displayed much more grace in defeat than blackgate has far in victory.

2 Seconds of my opinion:

1: Camping spawn points is boring…..period.

2: Emotes are funny……if think they are unsportsman you’ve never played hockey.

3: This current match up has more emoter’s because its boring.

4: Everyone on all 3 server’s in /map chat are probably saying the same thing as in BG
Map chat, “Please dear god let this end and please give us a better match next week”

5: I’d like to salute all my noble adversaries, in person, and thank you for the chuckles with the 15 man circle dance around my corpse, i ended up with Mt. Dew up my nose from laughing.

Thank you

There is no such thing as actual spawn camping. You have three ways out of your camp. Use them.

Wow… A spawn camper complaining about bad sportsmanship. Dude, come join FA or TC against your endless zerg of terrible players with huge buffs. Get spawn camped for about 2 hours trying to play the same game the enemy player paid for and see just how it feels. Wear the shoe on the other foot for a while before you say stupid things like this. Not only would I have spammed emotes at you, I would make it a point to find and kill specifically you every time possible.

Finally, you wouldn’t be so bored if you weren’t on the latest bandwagon server. With at least 7 guilds and 2 alliances from other higher tiered servers its easy for a person like you to come in here complaining about being bored and spawn camping the less populated or lower-tiered server. One thing I can say for all of us on TC – we aren’t bored. I have personally killed so many of you who are used to running with a huge group and slapping poor loners around that I can almost see the comical look on your face as you try to grasp how you were killed with 9 of your buddies standing around. Come see Colbane the Guardian anytime in our borderlands – bring five of your friends you will need them.

The kitten side is growing strong on BG. Anyone down to start a pool on how long until it implodes like all other bandwagon servers?

Edit: for some reason it changed a word that begins with d and rhymes with burp to kitten. I was unaware that word was profane.

This thread has degraded.
Blackgate got a big influx of very WvW focused guilds and that gave us a huge advantage. We finally have a powerful night crew going as well in preparation for the next tier where we got spanked like a school child.

However this current match up is giving a lot of Blackgate players monstrous attitudes and over inflated egos.

I worry that when we get bumped up to tier 2 we will be so fat, arrogant, lazy and spoiled that we will get completely blindsided. I’ve learned a lot from TC and FA. They’ve put up an incredible fight against overwhelming odds and developed some genius tactics that gained a considerable amount of land back during the day time in EB. I’ve also met some really awesome people who I’m now friends with.

We’re on different worlds but that’s arbitrary and can easily be changed. Can’t we in good spirit be friends and respectful towards each other?

Can’t we in good spirit be friends and respectful towards each other?

no.
lol I kid I kid. I’m also a little worried that next week will be bad for BG. I’m not sure what happened last week but we were getting rocked for a while, then the 2nd place team kinda disappeared so we got into 2nd. Came no where near 1st. Dont know if it was because of server transfers to ours or what but we def almost came in last.
And considering how server transfers are still free and people just keep jumping around Blackgates, and really all servers, futures are kinda up in the air.

First of all, props to TC. You guys put up one hell of a fight no matter what hits you. We´ve had to back out of several fights where you guys just punch to hard.

FA is no where to be seen in the EU primetime, but that was expected after our previous encounter.

Made a small video showing some of the fights we had in TC borderlands monday evening ( EU time )

sceptus.9415:

Wow… A spawn camper complaining about bad sportsmanship. Dude, come join FA or TC against your endless zerg of terrible players with huge buffs. Get spawn camped for about 2 hours trying to play the same game the enemy player paid for and see just how it feels. Wear the shoe on the other foot for a while before you say stupid things like this. Not only would I have spammed emotes at you, I would make it a point to find and kill specifically you every time possible.

Finally, you wouldn’t be so bored if you weren’t on the latest bandwagon server. With at least 7 guilds and 2 alliances from other higher tiered servers its easy for a person like you to come in here complaining about being bored and spawn camping the less populated or lower-tiered server. One thing I can say for all of us on TC – we aren’t bored. I have personally killed so many of you who are used to running with a huge group and slapping poor loners around that I can almost see the comical look on your face as you try to grasp how you were killed with 9 of your buddies standing around. Come see Colbane the Guardian anytime in our borderlands – bring five of your friends you will need them.

Been on Blackgate for 2 months, through several winning and losing weeks, and the crazyness @ the start with the 1 day thing. I wouldn’t transfer to a winning server, and if i was sent to one, and you broke both my legs, i’d still crawl back to Blackgate. Ask any BG’er, Shaniquia Johnson is well known, even tho i’m a small guilder.
Thank you.

FrozeNuggz.7219:

sceptus.9415:

Wow… A spawn camper complaining about bad sportsmanship. Dude, come join FA or TC against your endless zerg of terrible players with huge buffs. Get spawn camped for about 2 hours trying to play the same game the enemy player paid for and see just how it feels. Wear the shoe on the other foot for a while before you say stupid things like this. Not only would I have spammed emotes at you, I would make it a point to find and kill specifically you every time possible.

Finally, you wouldn’t be so bored if you weren’t on the latest bandwagon server. With at least 7 guilds and 2 alliances from other higher tiered servers its easy for a person like you to come in here complaining about being bored and spawn camping the less populated or lower-tiered server. One thing I can say for all of us on TC – we aren’t bored. I have personally killed so many of you who are used to running with a huge group and slapping poor loners around that I can almost see the comical look on your face as you try to grasp how you were killed with 9 of your buddies standing around. Come see Colbane the Guardian anytime in our borderlands – bring five of your friends you will need them.

Been on Blackgate for 2 months, through several winning and losing weeks, and the crazyness @ the start with the 1 day thing. I wouldn’t transfer to a winning server, and if i was sent to one, and you broke both my legs, i’d still crawl back to Blackgate. Ask any BG’er, Shaniquia Johnson is well known, even tho i’m a small guilder.
Thank you.

Does that make the rest of the garbage the guy posted that I responding to acceptable?

I’ve never seen so many HB 5 signet warriors in any wvw matchup – can you say sweet, sweet badges? Blackgate is really going to need to bring its A game to tier 2..

@ maniac

Your so right, but the common talk in /map at the moment is our current match up is going to leave us weak, uncoordinated and with out practice. So many of our regulars have taken a WvW break this week that there has been no que during some of our prime time fights. Add to that, a lot of the people i do see on are fair weather followers who will abandon ship @ the first sign of competition.

Personally i am praying to the Gods of War for some awesome fight’s ahead on the Sea’s of Combat.

It seems BG’s overall effectiveness decreased tonight. Maybe it’s because their regulars are taking a break, or maybe it’s just because the regulars can’t get into WvW because of queue times. No matter the reason, BG didn’t seem nearly as organized as usual tonight in FA BL.

Tonight in FA BL had a rare case of FA and TC largely leaving each other alone while focusing on BG. Granted, this is mostly FA’s decision, as they pretty much ignored us even when we had a raiding team running all over their area stealing camps. I didn’t recall a single pitched battle with FA, while BG was under constant pressure, mostly from FA, and sometimes from TC.

I use the term “focus” loosely on behalf of TC, because we did not have a single commander on the map, and we therefore lacked a singular purpose. It also didn’t help that we also had the outmanned buff for much of the night, so even when we managed a push, we weren’t able to push very hard. Eventually we had enough people together to take back our keep from BG, and from that point on TC territory did not change for 2+ hours.

At one point FA had taken BG’s keep and had sieged GB, almost pushing BG off the map altogether. There were talks in TC chat about capitalizing on that, but nothing really materialized. At times it seemed like TC was sitting out the fight and only concentrated on holding our own territory. Aside from a few pitched battles with BG between GB and BL (neither side laying down siege weapons when they pushed the other side to the tower), and nothing exciting happened for the rest of the night.

Hopefully it’ll be more exciting tomorrow night~

I’ve noticed that BG is not dominating 24/7 like they were. I think they are getting bored. That’s ok though. I like capping stuff and getting karma.

If they actually do want a challenge. They’ll let the entire maps go to FA and TC including all the orbs, keeps and castle. And then try to get them all back during our prime time. Taking it back when TC and FA is sleeping would be too easy.

I’m def getting bored on Blackgate. Fa and TC are putting up good fights, but its mostly in one area so all the action is forced there. i’ve been hopping around the different maps tonight but its all pretty much the same. Big X zerg here, counter zerg. wait until X zerg shows back up to counter zerg again. its very…bleh right now.

The performance and organization of BG seems to get better and better as we moved later into the evening. I notice that their attacks became more focused and better supported by siege as the night went on, which coincided with large number of guild members of some familiar guilds showing up. Not sure whether this is because those guys had to wait in queue while Bob Goe with his bear was gnawing away at the tower wall, or because the guild didn’t bother with WvW until then.

I’m sure Metalripper.5406 would still be on the battlefield if his team were losing like TC and FA, so cut him some slack…

To TC: If I could spend the rest of my gw2 time with you people, I would do it over and over again.

To FA: I havent seen you around much, but I do enjoy seeing the occasional one. Keep on fighting! You were pretty active and kicking tonight on the other borderlands, very nice to see.

To BG: You guys do pretty nice work, although I try to make it as difficult as possible for you all, which works well at times and sometimes I die horrible deaths. Lots of fun in any case. I hope you guys can keep it up in higher leagues.

To the chestbeaters: Tape measures can be found in any toolstore.

Velona Flowerborn

Martin.1906:

I’m sure Metalripper.5406 would still be on the battlefield if his team were losing like TC and FA, so cut him some slack…

Why? He doesn’t deserve slack coming in here with that attitude. We’ve been fighting our kitten off all week on TC, doing the best we can in a bad situation. Then we have people like this posting. You expect us to be friendly?

Sorry mates, not everyone in BG like to stomkittentten when their down.

sceptus.9415:

Martin.1906:

I’m sure Metalripper.5406 would still be on the battlefield if his team were losing like TC and FA, so cut him some slack…

Why? He doesn’t deserve slack coming in here with that attitude. We’ve been fighting our kitten off all week on TC, doing the best we can in a bad situation. Then we have people like this posting. You expect us to be friendly?

They deleted his post =(. But yeah this, it’s sooo funny how kids flock to one server to crush the other two, then have the audacity to come on here and say that we’re the ones who are pathetic, and say that they pity us. It’s laughable.

To the people from Blackgate who have kept it respectful, I thank you. I’m sticking by my first post in this thread however, I sincerely hope that BG gets bumped up to top tier, and that we never ever EVER have to fight them again. It’s sad that you guys can destroy us this badly, then some of your members (not all, just the leechers) come on here and put salt in the wound. TC and FA have done a good job against impossible odds this week, and for that they should be applauded. However, I’ve gone a week without WvW, and I’m dying for a good matchup. It would be fun to see TC vs FA vs SoS, that would be an amazingly even match, and a hell of a lot of fun XD.

But anyways, to Blackgate, I wish you guys luck in the future. I said it in the last thread when we went up against you, and I’ll say it again now. I hope that we never have to fight you guys ever again.

To my fellow FA members, the new rotation is tomorrow, so it’s time to put our game faces on. We’re going to take a pretty large ranking hit after this week, so hopefully we’ll be put in a more even match for this next week. I’d love to see another SoS vs FA style match up like last week, it was down to the wire all week.

Haker.5067:

sceptus.9415:

Martin.1906:

I’m sure Metalripper.5406 would still be on the battlefield if his team were losing like TC and FA, so cut him some slack…

Why? He doesn’t deserve slack coming in here with that attitude. We’ve been fighting our kitten off all week on TC, doing the best we can in a bad situation. Then we have people like this posting. You expect us to be friendly?

They deleted his post =(. But yeah this, it’s sooo funny how kids flock to one server to crush the other two, then have the audacity to come on here and say that we’re the ones who are pathetic, and say that they pity us. It’s laughable.

To the people from Blackgate who have kept it respectful, I thank you. I’m sticking by my first post in this thread however, I sincerely hope that BG gets bumped up to top tier, and that we never ever EVER have to fight them again. It’s sad that you guys can destroy us this badly, then some of your members (not all, just the leechers) come on here and put salt in the wound. TC and FA have done a good job against impossible odds this week, and for that they should be applauded. However, I’ve gone a week without WvW, and I’m dying for a good matchup. It would be fun to see TC vs FA vs SoS, that would be an amazingly even match, and a hell of a lot of fun XD.

But anyways, to Blackgate, I wish you guys luck in the future. I said it in the last thread when we went up against you, and I’ll say it again now. I hope that we never have to fight you guys ever again.

To my fellow FA members, the new rotation is tomorrow, so it’s time to put our game faces on. We’re going to take a pretty large ranking hit after this week, so hopefully we’ll be put in a more even match for this next week. I’d love to see another SoS vs FA style match up like last week, it was down to the wire all week.

SoS drank an Elixir X this week as well.

We might see SoS vs. CD vs. TC next week. TCers really have it tough =(

Telegraph.7509:

We might see SoS vs. CD vs. TC next week. TCers really have it tough =(

To reply with two quotes, fused with the spirit from TC:

“Sir, we’re surrounded!”
“Excellent. We can attack in any direction!”

“We are not outnumbered. We are in a target-rich environment!”

We TCers are like lions. rawwr.

We fight for our server. Win or lose.

Sharpclaw.7510:

We fight for our server. Win or lose.

For the Coast!

We will be ready to fight, no matter who it is. Score matters little to TC. Hitting rival servers in the mouth whenever we get a chance is what we really do well

It’s not the score that is discouraging me from playing WvW, its the orbs. Taking one away from you guys was like ~a whole new world~

And since I don’t feel like being a jerk and attacking Fort Aspenwood well, that doesn’t leave me many options.

Those stat bonuses are brutal! Zealots with three orbs are O_o.

Just logged on, and it looks so dead for FA. sadface.

Did someone say ‘toast’? I’m hungry all of a sudden.

Jeul.1068:

Did someone say ‘toast’? I’m hungry all of a sudden.

I move that instead of calling our fallen TCers “corpses” or “dead”, we call them “crumbs”.

TCer here.
Welcome back Odinzu, it’s awesome to see your commander icon leading the fight tonight.
Thanks Nyari Cil, I really don’t know how the heck you can hold on to QL for so kitten long but it’s rather inspiring.

To the good folks of Blackgate, thanks for all the catapults. I don’t like your trebs though.

- Hella Firestarter, Toast Mortar Team member

I’ve found a new game to play.. .whenever we clash with the Blackgate zerg, I find a squishy up front and just try to stick to them like glue as they run back into their group. I try to see how deep into that massive sea of zerglings I can get and still escape. If you guys see a suicidal Tarnished Coast Asura thief on the TC borderlands dressed like a pirate dive into 20 people… it’s probably me.

We’ve had some great battles when the numbers are relatively even. We have learned a lot from Blackgate this week, both what they do, and how to defend it. Well, except for when they just outnumber us 5:1 and swarm over everything we own like locust, that’s not fun.

Getting a little tired of Fort Aspenwood taking our supply camps when we’re busy trying to fight off a group of Blackgate that significantly outnumbers us though… and one of our commanders has developed an almost unhealthy hatred of FA…. yeah, actually, most of us have. It’s like a mosquito flying around and biting you every few minutes. When you finally kill it, you can’t help but feel happy…catching and crushing those FA groups really is extra satisfying now.

HenryAu.7523:

TCer here.
Welcome back Odinzu, it’s awesome to see your commander icon leading the fight tonight.
Thanks Nyari Cil, I really don’t know how the heck you can hold on to QL for so kitten long but it’s rather inspiring.

To the good folks of Blackgate, thanks for all the catapults. I don’t like your trebs though.

- Hella Firestarter, Toast Mortar Team member

I’m the Queen of Quentin Lake! I don’t let the peasants invade my Royal Residence so easily!

Sadly, I had to relocate to Langor tonight, but we held that for around 5 hours despite BG throwing the proverbial kitchen sink at it. Sadly, we all had to go to bed. Enjoy the eventual victory, folks from DiE and so forth! It was a fun night.

~Nyari Cil

DemonCow.5328:

Getting a little tired of Fort Aspenwood taking our supply camps when we’re busy trying to fight off a group of Blackgate that significantly outnumbers us though… and one of our commanders has developed an almost unhealthy hatred of FA…. yeah, actually, most of us have. It’s like a mosquito flying around and biting you every few minutes. When you finally kill it, you can’t help but feel happy…catching and crushing those FA groups really is extra satisfying now.

c u in two weeks~

DemonCow.5328”

Getting a little tired of Fort Aspenwood taking our supply camps when we’re busy trying to fight off a group of Blackgate that significantly outnumbers us though… and one of our commanders has developed an almost unhealthy hatred of FA…. yeah, actually, most of us have. It’s like a mosquito flying around and biting you every few minutes. When you finally kill it, you can’t help but feel happy…catching and crushing those FA groups really is extra satisfying now.

Every server has small groups who go around capping supply camps. That’s what people do when they dont have the forces to take something bigger. TC takes our north supply all the time, we take both south supply camps when we want to divert attention from an assault somewhere. Everyone takes supply camps, get over it or defend from it. 2-3 people on ballista and arrow carts with upgraded guards can hold a supply camp from any small group. It takes a small zerg to break that kinda of defense, and even then getting the attention of that many people means less of them on the bigger objectives.

Honestly, he match is really fun, for about 3-4 hours, when the points and numbers get’s more even. We even managed to get BGs own garrison last night.

We held off Langlor for 6 hours last night vs about 60 Blackgate players, I stayed up till 5 AM with several people defending it, we held off Giant Omega Golems, waves of zergs with 3 orbs, and many other players.

We were outmanned 6 to 1 and out buffed, and still held our fortress, I got so tired though I had to log out.

Wake up this morning, its all gone…

Earned about 23 badges, which is really good.

- Talathion, that one thief with the wolf mask.

[ISA] saying hi to everyone in BG bordlerlands last night.

/wave

Daecollo.9578:

We held off Langlor for 6 hours last night vs about 60 Blackgate players, I stayed up till 5 AM with several people defending it, we held off Giant Omega Golems, waves of zergs with 3 orbs, and many other players.

We were outmanned 6 to 1 and out buffed, and still held our fortress, I got so tired though I had to log out.

Wake up this morning, its all gone…

Earned about 23 badges, which is really good.

- Talathion, that one thief with the wolf mask.

I was there. The problem last night was lack of communication. Trying to encourage a buddy of mine to get his commander tome (he can afford it) because he leads well. If he had the icon, we would have taken Langor quickly. The problem was people built those golems (There was one Omega, and the pilot was dumb, and one Alpha that ran in after instead of together). We then built trebs in Danelon. A small TC zerg decided to go up North and take points we didn’t care about (we already won the week, so we’re more focused on taking a dang tower). Our zerg paniced over easy-to-take tier 1 towers and left Danelon, and you guys finally took that camp and our siege.

Can’t lie though, it was fun and very rewarding. Blueprints are easy to get for free and I got nearly 150 badges and 3g from farming TC players with their constant waves.

I will say though, TC has my upmost respect. I started on that server, and near launch you guys were absolutely terrible at WvW. It was good to see you guys pick it up and be a fun opponent.

You can hardly call TC a Zerg or Waves, 60 black gate players trying to take a tower with 8 defenders… And about 30 people running around a zerg and another couple of defenders defending the areas.

We really WERE outmatched 6 to 1…

http://imageshack.us/a/img829/2608/gw067f.jpg

I finally had to go to bed, come back and our tower is gone… :/

Each TC Player is his own army.

I’m really hoping for Tarnished Coast v Ft. Aspenwood v Dragonbrand in the next matchup. It would be an excellent match for all – and besides, I don’t particularly feel like fighting another FOTM transfer server.. cough Sanctum of Rall cough

The lack of participation on Fort Aspenwood’s part is pathetic. My guild transfered here because our last server (Darkhaven) turned out to be full of PvE carebares. Instead of “sitting this one out” why don’t you grow a pair and get fighting? Legion in Flames is out there taking keeps, if we had some server support we’d be able to hold them…. There is no excuse for this, stop being kittens.

I was there for the “Resistance at QL” prior to “the Langor Party.” I switched to our TC Borderlands after a break between those. I have to mix it up these days.

We got caught with our pants down at TCG in the Borderlands. Went from “they’re attacking the gate” to “they’re inside!” before our zerg could take a step. We took a last stand at Dawn’s Eyrie and eventually lost that too. Then we regrouped, BG seemed to go to sleep or head to Eternal Battleground, and we retook TCG and managed to take AH before they came and took AH back. Took Greenbriar at one point too but that didn’t go over well. I was running out the back door (falling off the wall) as the gate was disintegrating.

I apologize to whoever I knocked off that cliff outside Dawn’s Eyrie during the BG siege. My Guardian shield #5 didn’t do it, but my Downed #2 did cause your death from fall damage revived me. Your teammates avenged you.

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

Interesting… I wonder if Sanctum of Rall can surpass TC and end up in the 9th rank. I would actually like that because TC would be 10th and I need some green vista for map completion in EB. =P

Otherwise TC stays in 9th, it may be an even worst week for TC to be sandwiched between CD and the powered up SoS. On the other hand it might be fun because CD and SoS might be close in strength and TC gets to play kingmaker by being a pest.

Anyone have a score update please?

Well, the JQ guilds who transferred to SoR are aiming to keep over +650 points to skip tier 4 – which would be excellent because it would lead to close matches in tier 3 and tier 4. If TC stays just that tiny bit ahead – we will probably have blowouts again next matchup.

Mysticforce.5096:

Tonight in FA BL had a rare case of FA and TC largely leaving each other alone while focusing on BG. Granted, this is mostly FA’s decision, as they pretty much ignored us even when we had a raiding team running all over their area stealing camps. I didn’t recall a single pitched battle with FA, while BG was under constant pressure, mostly from FA, and sometimes from TC.

We’ve been trying to help TC against BG on the theory that the two weaker servers need to team up against the stronger server. It might be tempting to go after the ‘easier’ points but I’d rather take on BG’s forces directly and keep them from having it all their own way.

We made an effort to get as many folks into the FA BL as we could, and even managed to get a queue! Like, a 30s queue, but still a queue. We had a lot more presence there than normal and had good fun battling back and forth with BG between LV, Arahs, and DB. We needed every soldier we could scrape up, and didn’t have any extras to chase down the TC raiding parties. Taking our supply camps really hurt us with the supply at LV but we felt we really shouldn’t go after you guys instead of BG.

We really wished the TC guys would have gone after the BG supply camps instead of our own supply camps, but instead they pretty much took our N supply camp every opportunity they got.

In other BL’s our FA guys would specifically target BG supply camps instead of TC supply camps to try to give you guys an edge in the fight.

fixed image.. my bad

Haker.5067:

It would be fun to see TC vs FA vs SoS, that would be an amazingly even match, and a hell of a lot of fun XD.

Actually I hope that is not our matchup. I’ll happily play the gentlemen ton TC, but SoS has gained a metric kitten ton of people since we beat them last and are currently rolling all over maguuma and dragonbrand. It’s not even funny.

FA has a large presence and excellent commanders and coordination the EST evening prime time, after that, though the commanders and coordination remains, the numbers drop significantly. I think we’d just get nightcapped out if we fought SoS again.