Guild Wars 2

Vorpal.4683:

For those wondering why FA seemed to have given up, this might play a part of it…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/This-needs-to-stop-Siege-cap-sabotage/first#post908160

I saw a similar mess of useless siege in an out of the way place myself.

As always, hopefully people won’t try to tar everyone on the server with the brush of a few bad apples.

That said, arena.net really needs to get its act together and stop letting a couple bad apples ruin things for thousands of players.

[Insert extreme profanity] No freaking wonder I couldn’t put up any siege… well now I know…

Vorpal.4683:

For those wondering why FA seemed to have given up, this might play a part of it…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/This-needs-to-stop-Siege-cap-sabotage/first#post908160

I saw a similar mess of useless siege in an out of the way place myself.

As always, hopefully people won’t try to tar everyone on the server with the brush of a few bad apples.

That said, arena.net really needs to get its act together and stop letting a couple bad apples ruin things for thousands of players.

Yea I saw that post, and is pretty sad actually. Either it is some achievement freak using up supplies for a few 5/10 achievement pts, or some random player from some random server who does nothing but hop servers each week to cause chaos.
But yeah, I saw a couple of suggestions from that thread which might actually work out. If these things happen in some tower which is of least significance for you, as soon as points tally occurs, you could try to approach one of the enemy servers (better the leading server in this case TC since one tower wouldn’t make much of difference when the lead is huge), to cap that tower, destroy siege and leave so you can cap it before next tally. So that way you can deploy siege, and you would get that tower back. I know it’s kind of silly but in the current situation of the game, that’s the best solution you have.

Everyone I know at TCBL got kicked off, but other BLs work fine, what gives?

Had that problem too, but looks like I can get back in.

Likewise… but at least we got that wall fortified first! Haha, that was an amazing time fighting TC out there while our wall was down and we were trying to get that upgrade.

TC complains about our defense, but after fending them off in their home borderlands for 3-4 hours and upgrading a keep in the process, what happens at night you log in and go there and us FA have the outmanned buff. Defense is tough when outmanned 4 to 1 regardless of what server you are.

Yodaman.3274:

TC complains about our defense, but after fending them off in their home borderlands for 3-4 hours and upgrading a keep in the process, what happens at night you log in and go there and us FA have the outmanned buff. Defense is tough when outmanned 4 to 1 regardless of what server you are.

Can I get a score update, and a map view to see how badly we’re being beat at the moment?

Kasei.8726:

Kerithlan.1659:

Kasei.8726:

Kerithlan.1659:

Arkard.3970:

Night score update below:

Just to comment about FA’s defenses vs YB’s defenses again, this is not the first time we’ve had basically this same exact picture these past few weeks. We (Tarnished Coast) have trouble taking anything from Yak’s borderlands because their defenses are strong/off-putting. You guys are easy mode in comparison.

I’m not trying to talk smack here. I’m trying to get you guys to play better defense so that we’re challenged. You guys are 8th place, Fort Aspenwood. We might not have a ton of servers but that’s still the top ten. Have a little more pride in your defenses.

You want a challenge.
You don’t think FA is a challenge.
You think YB is a challenge.
So you continue to focus your attacks on FA.
Nice logic right there.

FA is quite frankly spread too thin at this point. It’s difficult to maintain defenses when man power, supply, and siege is needed everywhere. I’m not complaining, since I’d much rather be in our shoes than yours. I love having a challenge, it’s fun. Contrary to what you want believe, your words and the actions by your server tell me you do not.

I don’t think that you understand how it works. As long as we’re able to constantly flip FA in the Eternal Battlegrounds and FABL, YB isn’t a serious threat to us (anywhere). Having the easy meal (FA) means that we can focus more on defense.

There is a door that must be opened. It is locked. You have the key. Do you use the key, or do you kick it down? Obviously you will use the key because it is the logical course of action. The door that we’re opening is points, and FA is our key.

We’re asking you to take our keys away.

Actually you just proved my point. You just said it yourself, you don’t want a challenge, you just want points. You’d rather take the easy meal to open the door of points. I honestly couldn’t care less about points or what server wins or loses at the end of the day, as long as I get to have challenging, hard fought battles.

Soba.3041:

You can keep the keys. We play to have fun and it’s way more fun to kick down doors than it is to use the keys.

^ This.

you don’t get it….. we want a challenge, but we don’t want to have to regress to get it. we don’t want to make laughable tactical blunders, we want to move toward perfection.

“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.” – Sun Tzu

i’m sorry if you don’t agree with that, but you can’t possibly think you know better than the guy who literally wrote the book on warfare. if you try to argue against it, you will lose every single time and you will end up looking like an arrogant fool while doing so.

war is a very cerebral thing. if you try to lead with your manhood, it’s going to get chopped off. instead you have to pick the most opportune target, and take advantage of it. those who beat their heads against rocks expecting the rock to split before their skull will only end up with a massive headache.

Just wanna say, the TC guys that built a ram on top of me after I died in Danelon amused me greatly. Now I can finally say I’ve had a ram placed on me! Truly made my day.

Also bonus screen of said ram

Yodaman.3274:

TC complains about our defense, but after fending them off in their home borderlands for 3-4 hours and upgrading a keep in the process, what happens at night you log in and go there and us FA have the outmanned buff. Defense is tough when outmanned 4 to 1 regardless of what server you are.

I think TC’s numbers have obviously inflated some since the first week of this matchup. Maybe in combo with the other 2 having less participation.

In week 1, or even last week, they did not have the strength to hold the majority of EB and be pushing deep into 2 enemy BLs at once. Like the last few days.

Im not the most active poster, but i peek in here to read up alittle, first of thank you FA and YB for some fun weeks…

Now to things from my perspective, i think we are as servers are in base really matched in tactics, all of us know the tricks in attack and defense, and i dont see that any server is really better then the other tactics wise… i am TC and what i have noticed is that we have really good morale, there is very little ranting or shouting at each other, ewen back when we got badly owerrun by SoR i think it was, we kept triying to fight them, and was merrrily crushed time and time again, sure some lost the will to fight, but there was very little bad talks among us, atleast what i could notice

I feel, we have a unspoken crew that will defend and capture our border land, our third in eternal, when we have this, comanders usually organice more organiced efforts into other borderlands, but if our core base of points gets invaded, we will swarm to defend it… its alittle what happened to day a few hours back, amacing fighting in TCBL, we lost BB and then Bay, and lastly RL, but by this time we had gained a parity in numbers, and could start hitting back more serious, its as one of our comanders said “we will keep dieing at BB till we take it” or something like that

So what am i trying to say, i think all three servers are even in tactics, we TC have generally more people, but not so we can dominate all four zones, think we become fairly good at managing out people we have, with a balance of attack and defence… ten people can defend against 40 in a tower along time, winning time, calling in people from other zones… im not saying FA and YB dont dont do this either, but its easier for us to do this, as we mostly have more people, but ewen we tend to get low on numbers on some hours… Thanks and keep up the fun !

PS Jadon if you read this, i wana know if you talked about the super secret idea ;P

Miriel !

Feydra.6318:

Im not the most active poster, but i peek in here to read up alittle, first of thank you FA and YB for some fun weeks…

Now to things from my perspective, i think we are as servers are in base really matched in tactics, all of us know the tricks in attack and defense, and i dont see that any server is really better then the other tactics wise… i am TC and what i have noticed is that we have really good morale, there is very little ranting or shouting at each other, ewen back when we got badly owerrun by SoR i think it was, we kept triying to fight them, and was merrrily crushed time and time again, sure some lost the will to fight, but there was very little bad talks among us, atleast what i could notice

I feel, we have a unspoken crew that will defend and capture our border land, our third in eternal, when we have this, comanders usually organice more organiced efforts into other borderlands, but if our core base of points gets invaded, we will swarm to defend it… its alittle what happened to day a few hours back, amacing fighting in TCBL, we lost BB and then Bay, and lastly RL, but by this time we had gained a parity in numbers, and could start hitting back more serious, its as one of our comanders said “we will keep dieing at BB till we take it” or something like that

So what am i trying to say, i think all three servers are even in tactics, we TC have generally more people, but not so we can dominate all four zones, think we become fairly good at managing out people we have, with a balance of attack and defence… ten people can defend against 40 in a tower along time, winning time, calling in people from other zones… im not saying FA and YB dont dont do this either, but its easier for us to do this, as we mostly have more people, but ewen we tend to get low on numbers on some hours… Thanks and keep up the fun !

PS Jadon if you read this, i wana know if you talked about the super secret idea ;P

Miriel !

I think we are rather fast enough to gather numbers from other BL’s when necessary. Like yesterday morning, when things were getting boring, suddenly there was [GODS] zerg on TCBL, hitting BB. We were very few on the map at that time, and tried to defend it as long as possible, but the gate kept going down pretty fast. Eventually our commander who has just logged on, has left to call in reinforcements and I’ve sent a PM to another friend of mine who was on a diff. map to try to spare a few numbers and when the gate was at 30%, we had enough numbers who just rushed in and swept the area. That was actually good to call such numbers, because as soon as [GODS] left, they returned to BV with even bigger numbers, capped it and heavily sieged it. Eventually we took it back with a portal bomb and then they left our map. Although our numbers are spread throughout multiple maps, I guess we respond fast enough when there’s a request for reinforcements.

To avoid huge paragraphs, I’ll just keep it short:
WvWvW is a war, where you have fun since you have the option to resurrect once dead and rejoin the battle. Rest all, is as real as a battle can get.

Lanimal.6541:

I just want to say that CF or CM guild (Crime something…) on Yaks is probably individually the most skilled rival guild I have faced as a TC-er, every time i see their tag I know I am going to have a tough fight on my hands. They don’t seem to have that many members but each member seems to bring the pain.

Recently I went up against a fellow mesmer of theirs who was camping the EB JP and he is one of the very few mesmers over the course of WvWvW (from launch) who has beaten me in a straight up duel.

/bow,
Theon

That was meee! Btw, you are incredibly hard to kill. After our duel my hands were shaking. I don’t normally have trouble with other mesmers but kitten dude, you are a beast.

Huge (comparatively) Yak’s Bend force that just took Mendon’s from me:

Thank you for giving me a solid eight minutes of excitement. I was surprised to destroy as many rams as I did and down as many players as I did. Mendon’s had no siege, just t2 walls. When my three commanders decided to bail on Mendon’s (to defend golems on the other side of the map, can’t blame them), I decided to stand my ground. I’m glad I did.

I hope you guys enjoyed murdering me as much as I enjoyed smashing my face on the keyboard while screaming “halp my organs” in team chat.

To the FA pair (at least one of which was an elementalist using air attunement) that murdered my friend and I while killing Skritt on YBBL a few hours ago:

Well played, sirs. (Should have not let our guard down, eh?)

Phantom.8130:

“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.” – Sun Tzu

“Knowing is half the battle. The other half is violence, because, you know, war. I’m just saying kids, when you go to war, you kill people. And that’s why I started a day care.” – Cobra Commander

Score and map update~!

To all the FA members who just re-took your hills, that was some bloody great siege placement, the arrow carts in particular.

I’m just a little sad that our last stand in the lord room got swamped by blue before we could even fire off two shots with the carts.

And to that huge norn commander, i tip my hat to you, you sneaky kitten

Score and map update~!

I hope FA doesn’t make the same mistake CD did.

When YB first moved up we felt like TC is the main threat in tier 3 so we went hard after them on reset. YB played for 2nd.

This seems to be the case now. FA should re-evaluate it’s strategy and try to play for 2nd or they will be the ones kicked out. It’s a smart strategy on YB side, if you can’t beat them, use them.

Altie.4571:

I hope FA doesn’t make the same mistake CD did.

When YB first moved up we felt like TC is the main threat in tier 3 so we went hard after them on reset. YB played for 2nd.

This seems to be the case now. FA should re-evaluate it’s strategy and try to play for 2nd or they will be the ones kicked out. It’s a smart strategy on YB side, if you can’t beat them, use them.

What do you get for 2nd place?

You stay in the tier of course

That may be our only hope of staying in the tier, but a lot of people on FA aren’t complacent hitting an inferior server over and over. And especially coming into this matchup where we had clearly established superiority over Yak’s bend throughout the second half of the week almost closing a 120k point gap in 4 days in our last matchup; we were gunning for Tarnished Coast because they were #1.

I don’t believe Fort Aspenwood should have concerned itself with Yak’s bends fight for second strategy because that would only have cemented our place as the underdogs in the fight with TC. Now it’s not as competitive as a match up as it was in the first week because of transfers and lower server morale as a whole, but if we do get kicked down to Tier 4, that’ll give us the breathing room to re-evaluate our forces and coordination so we can come back and kick your guyses butts next round we face ya’ >:D

Kasei.8726:

Phantom.8130:

you don’t get it….. we want a challenge, but we don’t want to have to regress to get it. we don’t want to make laughable tactical blunders, we want to move toward perfection.

“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.” – Sun Tzu

i’m sorry if you don’t agree with that, but you can’t possibly think you know better than the guy who literally wrote the book on warfare. if you try to argue against it, you will lose every single time and you will end up looking like an arrogant fool while doing so.

war is a very cerebral thing. if you try to lead with your manhood, it’s going to get chopped off. instead you have to pick the most opportune target, and take advantage of it. those who beat their heads against rocks expecting the rock to split before their skull will only end up with a massive headache.

Your references to war are irrelevant since this isn’t a war. If you try to argue that WvW is equivalent to war “you will lose every single time and you will end up looking like an arrogant fool while doing so.”

“we want a challenge, but we don’t want to have to regress to get it”

And that’s where we differ. My goal in this game is to have fun, challenging battles. If my server happens to win the match through those battles, all the better. For example, I don’t even play the weeks when my server dominates all the maps, because it isn’t a challenge: it isn’t fun. If my server happens to be holding a map well, then I will specifically seek out an outmanned borderlands to play on for a challenge. From what you guys have posted (not necessarily the entire server), you do not. If you call that regressing or bad tactics, then there’s nothing left for me to say.

My point is simple: It’s fine if you care about points first, but go out and seek a challenge before you complain about the lack of one. Not to go off-topic, but it reminds me of those players who complained about the lack of content in the game, when they hadn’t even visited all the maps yet.

I will have shoddy internet for the next week or so. So you guys will have fun without me, later.

the consequences may not be nearly as severe, but the tactics and strategies still apply. if you don’t accept that, you will never stand a chance against us. we will forever be your glass ceiling. if you’re looking for fun, challenging battles without warlike strategies, it sounds as though what you’re looking for is sPvP or tPvP. not WvW. while they both can have fun, challenging battles, the strategies involved are different. what may work in one won’t necessarily work in the other. you can accept it and improve, or you can deny it and watch as your WvW population dwindles until you find yourself back down in tier 4. it’s your call.

Altie.4571:

You stay in the tier of course

I understand, but ever since my father’s disdain for the Minnesota Vikings’ “playing not to lose” runs, I can’t do it.

If you’re playing a board game with 2 other people, is there any comfort in 2nd place? Do you turn to the person who came in last and say “well, at least I got 2nd”? In my experience, and with my mentality, no. There’s one winner, and two losers.

Same with WvWvW. TC has won the past few weeks, and YB and FA have both lost. The end.

The playing for 2nd mentality is what stagnates the competition in the match. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for WvWvW development to hear their discussions about how they think matches would play out. I wonder if they had faith that worlds wouldn’t be content with 2nd, such that 2 and 3 would gun for 1. It looks like that almost never happens, and in my opinion, it’s really sad.

Sure, using the situation to maximize points in a match is great for optimizing Glicko rating or whatever, but is rating/some number all people play for? There’s no internal drive to be first, to win the competition for the sake of competition?

Anyway, that’s just me. If there would ever be a reason I would stop participating in WvWvW, it would probably be because it seems like there’s no competitive fire in anyone anymore. It’s too much about just optimizing some output, whether it’s rating, badges, or what have you.

If anything, I’m proud of FA for not playing for second. Perhaps that’s my Irish blood boiling in rebellion.

Phantom.8130:

Kasei.8726:

Phantom.8130:

you don’t get it….. we want a challenge, but we don’t want to have to regress to get it. we don’t want to make laughable tactical blunders, we want to move toward perfection.

“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.” – Sun Tzu

i’m sorry if you don’t agree with that, but you can’t possibly think you know better than the guy who literally wrote the book on warfare. if you try to argue against it, you will lose every single time and you will end up looking like an arrogant fool while doing so.

war is a very cerebral thing. if you try to lead with your manhood, it’s going to get chopped off. instead you have to pick the most opportune target, and take advantage of it. those who beat their heads against rocks expecting the rock to split before their skull will only end up with a massive headache.

Your references to war are irrelevant since this isn’t a war. If you try to argue that WvW is equivalent to war “you will lose every single time and you will end up looking like an arrogant fool while doing so.”

“we want a challenge, but we don’t want to have to regress to get it”

And that’s where we differ. My goal in this game is to have fun, challenging battles. If my server happens to win the match through those battles, all the better. For example, I don’t even play the weeks when my server dominates all the maps, because it isn’t a challenge: it isn’t fun. If my server happens to be holding a map well, then I will specifically seek out an outmanned borderlands to play on for a challenge. From what you guys have posted (not necessarily the entire server), you do not. If you call that regressing or bad tactics, then there’s nothing left for me to say.

My point is simple: It’s fine if you care about points first, but go out and seek a challenge before you complain about the lack of one. Not to go off-topic, but it reminds me of those players who complained about the lack of content in the game, when they hadn’t even visited all the maps yet.

I will have shoddy internet for the next week or so. So you guys will have fun without me, later.

the consequences may not be nearly as severe, but the tactics and strategies still apply. if you don’t accept that, you will never stand a chance against us. we will forever be your glass ceiling. if you’re looking for fun, challenging battles without warlike strategies, it sounds as though what you’re looking for is sPvP or tPvP. not WvW. while they both can have fun, challenging battles, the strategies involved are different. what may work in one won’t necessarily work in the other. you can accept it and improve, or you can deny it and watch as your WvW population dwindles until you find yourself back down in tier 4. it’s your call.

The amount of hubris displayed in this post is irritating. You also didn’t address why he was responding, which was that you initially stated Fort Aspenwood is not a challenge and that you were discontent because of it. If that is so, then go to Yak’s Bend borderlands where there is a challenge. But if you’re not willing to do that much, don’t mention “wanting a challenge” at all because it’s evident that you’re only seeking to boast how many points your server puts up at the end of the week.

We know what it takes to improve as a server WvW contender and trust me, we are trying. But to use the analogy of war puts an unnecessary and largely irrelevant emphasis on what people are trying to get out of this game. To many people, it’s first and foremost about fun. Not to say that TC is not doing so as well, but if you aren’t having fun then what is the point of playing the game?

As an outsider looking in, I can’t see how YB or FA stand a chance of placing first in this tier against a server constantly measured “full.”

A victory on one BL should suffice. Let the more populated move up to another tier with equal or more dedicated wvw players. I can’t imagine this is fun for them.

Cogbyrn.7283:

with my mentality, no. There’s one winner, and two losers.

Same with WvWvW.

TLDR:

• I agree with you in spirit, and I have the same mentality when it comes to winners and losers. HOWEVER this is a “team based game”. I, alone, cannot assure a victory for my server/team. You can’t either. Regardless of how well a person plays in the end what determines whether they have won or lost in wuvwuv is all about population size, coverage and then strategy/tactics a little further behind that, then player skill far down the road. *

This prevents me from taking w3 seriously at all as a competition. It’s actually the same thing that prevents me from enjoying the format or class balance for s/tpvp as well. If I, no matter how well I play, cannot determine the outcome of the match as I could in an FPS for instance then I cannot invest my competitive energy fully into the game at all. Doesn’t mean I can’t have fun with it, I just can’t bring myself to care. Because if I care and bust my kitten I end up with scenarios like the early matches where I drop a ton of currency and time on siege/upgrades during my prime time (NA west coast night) only to find it zerged over and wasted. And then the rage comes.

Which would be ok, if I could aim the rage at myself as a drive to improve my game. However the truth is that there is nothing I can do to ensure the win, so the rage gets directed at “everyone else” for not doing their job. And that kind of rage is bad, and not worth having.

rook.4625:

As an outsider looking in, I can’t see how YB or FA stand a chance of placing first in this tier against a server constantly measured “full.”

A victory on one BL should suffice. Let the more populated move up to another tier with equal or more dedicated wvw players. I can’t imagine this is fun for them.

The harsh reality is that WvW will never be truly balanced. TC goes up and IoJ goes down to beat up the T3 servers. CD goes up and FA goes down to beat up T4 servers. TC doesn’t stand much of a chance in T2 so they’ll get beaten up and get sent back down to beat up T3 servers again. CD does do well in T3, but FA will come back up replacing either CD or YB and those servers will beat up T4 servers again. The cycle will continue unless there are mass server transfers to help balance populations, but people are against server transfers so Anet will one day make it so balancing WvW populations will no longer be possible.

Anet can help make WvW more interesting by implementing what they thought would happen, incentive for the two losing servers to gang up on the winning server.

@Braxxus: I definitely understand your position. However, I don’t think that position develops into complacency for 2nd place. At the end of the day, I go out there to have fun fighting people all over a map, whether it’s for a point someone has or to defend a point my team has. I’ve ended a night where the BL we were fighting in lost its people, and the second the majority of my group left, we lost our last remaining tower when we started with several points. However, I counted it a success, because it was ultra fun.

If I had to pick a mentality for my server and consider placement in our 3-way battle, it kitten well wouldn’t be some passive “go for 2nd, because we’ll never get first” shenanigannery. If we were standing over a table that outlined the WvWvW map, and I weighed in on what I thought we should do to win, it would be “Push on 1st, because kitten that kitten”, not “Push on 2nd, so I can maybe get 2nd”. Hence the board game analogy. You either submit to not getting first, or try and potentially get 3rd.

Or sometimes your server just attacks everyone because they’re bloodthirsty, and that’s OK with me too, because it just means lots of fighting.

Either way, Tigger is my 100 Acre Woods spirit guide, not Eeyore.

Serelisk.6573:

The amount of hubris displayed in this post is irritating. You also didn’t address why he was responding, which was that you initially stated Fort Aspenwood is not a challenge and that you were discontent because of it. If that is so, then go to Yak’s Bend borderlands where there is a challenge. But if you’re not willing to do that much, don’t mention “wanting a challenge” at all because it’s evident that you’re only seeking to boast how many points your server puts up at the end of the week.

We know what it takes to improve as a server WvW contender and trust me, we are trying. But to use the analogy of war puts an unnecessary and largely irrelevant emphasis on what people are trying to get out of this game. To many people, it’s first and foremost about fun. Not to say that TC is not doing so as well, but if you aren’t having fun then what is the point of playing the game?

i’m sorry if the facts come off as hubris, but they remain as facts. take a look back through the threads of the previous matches, you’ll notice that several FA players state that TCBL remains all green and YBBL remains all red. (i guess it’s ok when FA players complain about it, but when a TC player complains about the exact same thing, it’s “seeking to boast how many points our server puts up”.)

for the record, i suggested that YB and FA should team up against us. why? because we’ve held out own borderland, our areas in EB, and extra bonus areas in EB and the other two borderlands. we don’t have our backs to the wall, and can afford to be sloppy, which is the problem. us having more bonus areas won’t solve the problem. us being down to a single tower over all 4 maps will. it’s all about our performance and execution. the score doesn’t factor in whatsoever.

if we’re getting careless, then even if we own every bit of all 4 maps, it’s still a problem. the fact that have to argue and practically beg the other two teams to stomp all over is, quite frankly, absurd. you should be jumping at this opportunity to take the screws to us. instead of continually insulting us by saying that we don’t want a challenge. if “team up and beat us senseless” translates to you as “we don’t want a challenge” then what backwards logic do i have to use to get you to do it? tell me, and i’ll give it a shot.

Well said Cog.

The sessions we’ve had in this grouping have been fantastic fun. Look forward to the slaying that goes on the rest of this week!

Can we get a map/score update please? Thanks.

Daedalus.3954:

Well said Cog.

The sessions we’ve had in this grouping have been fantastic fun. Look forward to the slaying that goes on the rest of this week!

Can we get a map/score update please? Thanks.

I second the well said. This is why I like playing on FA because it seems a lot of us have the same mentality.

I am not sure how to phrase this to make my point clear, but it isn’t about a first or second place mentality. It is really about what is best for the server. Even if that means cutting loses to retain a spot in a higher bracket to stay closer to the ultimate goal of achieving first place.

There can be no winning mentality without strategy. It would be equally to the idea of wanting to run without knowing how to walk first. Learn to solidify second each match up is just as important of an accomplishment as making first. It insure that tactics to get to second were not a fluke but also allows room for evaluating, adjusting, and learning from first place.

If the gap becomes too large to close you have to understand there is risk with trying to drag down the leading team and ignoring the second place team, because the third place team occupies the first place team’s time the second place team can move off freely, closing the gap while the third place team is not moving up at an equal pace to second.

So ultimately go after the first place team may close the gap between 1 and 2 but ends up hurting 3 more in the end.

This increases the third place team’s chance of dropping out of the tier and ultimately further from the long term goal of being top server, in the top tier. If there is a significant point gap then chasing first means taking a risk to drop tier. If a server drops tier and crushes in their new bracket with the same tactics that got them there, then when they move up a tier nothing will change.

By all means start off each week going for first, but also realize there is strategy in cutting your loses to achieve your ultimate goal. Just like folding in poker, going for second would be similar to biding time to insure you are in the tier at the time of the restart, and will allow another chance to adjust tactics, especially when it is know who the participants are.

I think each server has represented this tier very well, and it would be a shame for one of them to drop down next week. I also think each of us has more to learn from this tier, and coming from TC I can say, some of the commanders have noticeable improved in the last 3 weeks.

WvWvW is really about commanders learning how to use their population at any given time. There are severely EB commanders that will focus on defense and counter siege during off hours because they know they can’t get the numbers to take towers, and I think that is an appropriate strategy even though that isn’t a 24/7 go for their throats type plan.

Considering that Christmas event is coming soon (Dec 14 – Jan 3), all these over-thinking about tiers is a little useless since the event will mess everything up for all the servers. If you think Halloween was bad… Well I didn’t do any of the Halloween events and I only showed up to get beat up by SoR every night, but this time even I am thinking about doing the events and forget about WvWvW for a bit.

TLDR: We should just go out, have fun, and brutally murder each other, repeatedly non-stop.

- Frillip, TC guardian trainee who specializes in handing out badges

Well said Sorrow and I understand that mentality completely but I think what we are saying is the ultimate goal isn’t to win or be the number one server. Great if it happens but not the goal. The goal is to have fun because really nothing is at stake unlike in poker. I really lose nothing if I lose and I win nothing if I win so I’m doing this to have fun.

In order for me, and I think a good number of people on FA, we need to go out and fight the toughest we can find at the moment. If it’s a 2v1 defense, great. If it’s going into #1 servers BL and taking a keep, that’s great too. If it’s 25 v40 open field battle, I sure as heck hope I’m in the group of 25.

There are 7ish NA servers with “FULL” populations the majority of the time. They will take up tier 1/2 with the odd man out always in tier3 (its TC atm). This tier is always going to be somewhat lopsided (points wise) as there currently isn’t any other NA servers with large enough populations(&coverage) independently to pose a serious threat…..

……so we need more consolidation (xfers) to FA/YB (or CD), or blatant alliance between YB and FA to both push TC to the exclusion of each other to make the tier interesting from a scoring (win/lose) perspective. Otherwise might as well just have fun and not worry about points. You can say you are playing for 2nd, but the reality is that TC ‘s decisions of who they are going to push has a greater impact on who finishes 2nd then FA’s or YB action’s do. (i.e. If FA and YB just sat in their BLs defensively, who ever TC decided to push would finish last….TC would start to take parts of the map, and the other server would then also push the “weakened/distracted” opponent. )

There is no point in giving up against a force that you will have to fight again in 2 weeks, 3 weeks a month from now….. .. . Might as well use the time to hone tactics and improve organization. No matter who in the third tier is winning now….. those of us in the third tier will ultimately meet again at some point.

(and imho this has been a great fight with worthy competition and battles fought by all three servers)

As someone has already logically pointed out, unless there are some significant guild transfers, the current T3 matchup is going to stay for quite some time. TC gets moved to T2 and gets beat up, then back to T3. YB or FA has a couple ob bad weeks and end up in T4, then they beat the hell out of them and back to T3. It really doesn’t matter who gets first or second or third IMO. Isn’t it really about logging in and having some great fights? These three servers have provided great competition, great strategy, great teaching, and overall great fun for the few hours that you log in.

I had a former commander that used to say “People need to stop looking at the score and start enjoying the fights.”

Couldn’t agree more.

Altie.4571:

This seems to be the case now. FA should re-evaluate it’s strategy and try to play for 2nd or they will be the ones kicked out. It’s a smart strategy on YB side, if you can’t beat them, use them.

Well this week it kinda look like you are. FA have clearly gone after YB when TC has attacked us trying to take advantage.

Well I transferred out of Ebay to Yak to get away from the CD zerg only to run into TC. If anything the situation is worse for Yak ATM. I am seeing some interesting psychology experiments playing out in T3 and T4 with two clearly dominant teams running the board. The other two teams won’t band together but spend most of the time trying to avoid retribution for any upstart actions. It is every man for himself.

If the developers were hoping for alliances I don’t think it is going to happen.

Sam.3645:

Everyone I know at TCBL got kicked off, but other BLs work fine, what gives?

oi when did that happen and which bl where u in?
looks like a hack attempt….could be wrong…

Choko.6821:

You two servers got paid doing this? Alliance FTW?

I’m that Asura and You’re that Silver haired Warrior that kept Alt+F4ing every time someone got near you or took you down. kitten right I’d come at you with a fever and ignore everything else. This wasn’t to do with some made up “Alliance” in a game type I rarely play. It was 100% to do with you being annoying . It’s as simple as that really, why did you bother wasting your hard earned money on a game to only run around and quit as soon as you’re going to die? If you get some sort of satisfaction then I understand but, you could just go to the local playground and kick sand in the small children’s faces as that about on the same level of maturity. It’s also cheaper and if you’re as fast as that Warrior is then the parents won’t be able to catch you.

Quit whining about some made up alliance when clearly you don’t have the moral courage or integrity to challenge anyone’s choices in WvW.

I wonder how you sleep at night.

on my back mate

koopatroopa.5360:

Lanimal.6541:

I just want to say that CF or CM guild (Crime something…) on Yaks is probably individually the most skilled rival guild I have faced as a TC-er, every time i see their tag I know I am going to have a tough fight on my hands. They don’t seem to have that many members but each member seems to bring the pain.

Recently I went up against a fellow mesmer of theirs who was camping the EB JP and he is one of the very few mesmers over the course of WvWvW (from launch) who has beaten me in a straight up duel.

/bow,
Theon

That was meee! Btw, you are incredibly hard to kill. After our duel my hands were shaking. I don’t normally have trouble with other mesmers but kitten dude, you are a beast.

You had the mental edge after you pulled me off edges a few times. I was way too paranoid to play all out aggressive because your movement was really scaring me ;(. Also the shatter build + blurred edges burst hurt a lot. I also had to realize quickly when to time my bursts because of the confusion stacks. As the fight went on I realized I was hurting myself a lot more than you were. :@ I do not know if I would have beaten you if we dueled again but I would love to try without the mental edge of being thrown off a few times in the JP xD.

Yodaman.3274:

TC complains about our defense, but after fending them off in their home borderlands for 3-4 hours and upgrading a keep in the process, what happens at night you log in and go there and us FA have the outmanned buff. Defense is tough when outmanned 4 to 1 regardless of what server you are.

No no let me tell u the whole morning program at FA borderland…
1 tc starts capping some camps
2. 5 to 8 fa defenders run after them
3. yb takes redvale
4. yb starts trebbing redbriar.
5. tc sets up 2 trebs at their spawn
6. yb fails if fa gets there quickly
7. fa defenders try to keep redvale (yb invaders stay at invulnerable zone in and out like little babies to scared to die.
8. tc takes greenlake/yb sets up 2 trebs at their spawn
9. tc gets bigger group of 10 to 15 running supplly camps.
10.yb finally gets redbriar as we are not enough to stop tc and yb at same time.
11. tc starts attacking hills after sening 2 people to contest wp at garrison and set allarm swords up at de.
12 yb starts trebbing bay
13. tc takes hills heads to de
14 yb still trying at bay
15 possible first golem rush of either yb or tc as tcs zerg goes up to 30
16 (12 bags of loot to my feet on my superrior arrowcart at garrison water gate. or to my guildmembers feet at eastgate)
17 yb finally getting into inner bay
18 tc setting up 4 catapults at woodhaven
19 tc getting woodhaven
20 yb still at bay
21tc getting DE
22. yb gets bay.
23 tc attacking garrison from all sites
24 all possible gates down at garrison 6 people at inner defending
25 lots of badges
26 more baged
27 tc got garrison!
…

ok and now i wanna clarify why some people may think its 2vs 1.

1 DE under attack.
i run there see TOG.manage to get in..go to siege on top look down see TC…not really so tc and yb both hitting gate.seemed like a competition who get in first …and kinda fun to watch XD(tc won lol)

2 we are working on getting bay back from yb
8 people building treb at inner after finally braking though gate….tc appears behind us and kills treb plus us..doesn’t tae bay though

3 keep in eb gets attacked by tc
tc breaks through outer wall and works on inner.we run out of supply but have a ton of usless rams in keep….we decide to get more supply at pangloss wanna leave through back door…yb there attacking gate

4 yb building treb on spawn 5 people get ther to take it down 12 tc attacking us from behind just as we are about to take the treb down…trebs still up after that

…
…
lots of incidents like that made some people believe its a 2v1,but ill just say it was all a coincidence :-)

Can the other TC peeps please put some more pressure in the YB BL?

I need only a few things for map completion, and it has been weeks trying to get due to their defensive nature…

With the way things are going, I wish I just server hoped for my map completion back when transfers were as fast as you could click them.

morrolan.9608:

Altie.4571:

This seems to be the case now. FA should re-evaluate it’s strategy and try to play for 2nd or they will be the ones kicked out. It’s a smart strategy on YB side, if you can’t beat them, use them.

Well this week it kinda look like you are. FA have clearly gone after YB when TC has attacked us trying to take advantage.

I’m actually not on either of those servers.

As for FA posters. I understand and appreciate the mentality of play for 1st or lose. Problem is you have to consider other strategies in hand. If you get kicked you don’t get a chance to fight the best. Instead you have to fight lower competition. When a match is far gone (as this one seems to be) your competition is the 2nd or 3rd place, not the 1st because you simply can’t catch up to them without cooperation from the other server.

In any case I wish all luck. Next week we should be back up to fight some of you and hopefully provide a challenge.

Braxxus.2904:

Cogbyrn.7283:

with my mentality, no. There’s one winner, and two losers.

Same with WvWvW.

TLDR:

• I agree with you in spirit, and I have the same mentality when it comes to winners and losers. HOWEVER this is a “team based game”. I, alone, cannot assure a victory for my server/team. You can’t either. Regardless of how well a person plays in the end what determines whether they have won or lost in wuvwuv is all about population size, coverage and then strategy/tactics a little further behind that, then player skill far down the road. *

This prevents me from taking w3 seriously at all as a competition. It’s actually the same thing that prevents me from enjoying the format or class balance for s/tpvp as well. If I, no matter how well I play, cannot determine the outcome of the match as I could in an FPS for instance then I cannot invest my competitive energy fully into the game at all. Doesn’t mean I can’t have fun with it, I just can’t bring myself to care. Because if I care and bust my kitten I end up with scenarios like the early matches where I drop a ton of currency and time on siege/upgrades during my prime time (NA west coast night) only to find it zerged over and wasted. And then the rage comes.

Which would be ok, if I could aim the rage at myself as a drive to improve my game. However the truth is that there is nothing I can do to ensure the win, so the rage gets directed at “everyone else” for not doing their job. And that kind of rage is bad, and not worth having.

I disagree. Which FPS are you talking about that is not a team game in the competitive circuit? In fact nearly any game that has some level of competitive spirit (or even an all out e-sport) tends to be team orientated with the exception of SC2 (Look at LoL, Dota2, CSGO). Also one thing is in common with all competitive games is that one of the foundations of success in all of them is knowledge, the gathering, learning and creation of it. Yes, Population Size and Coverage matters but not as much as Strategy/Tactics and even more so good communication.

I take time out and try to give out siege placement lessons, offensive and defensive for the Borderlands and I feel that I am making a difference by sharing knowledge with the masses/pug/non wvwvw veterans. An educated/sound strategy 5-10man team can do a lot more damage than a lot of zergs on defense and offense.

By communication I do not mean simply scouting, guarding reporting enemy movements, its more about communicating with each other about What you are doing. If you left your post to check on another contested spot or to scout ahead for a potential zerg movement inform the map or other important people / commanders (whether on voip or chat).

These friendly movement and actions can also be communicated in a more micro level during a Zerg vs Zerg or defending against an all out siege…for example…I don’t know how many times I have taken a couple of random pugs flanked around, time warp built a balista and took out tonnes of their offensive siege. It was all possible because I would clearly outline in /s what my plan was, “Grabbing supply from TCBL Garrison, going to champs to flank around with Balista to take out Catas, need two people with supply for group” Friendly movements and actions being communicated go a long way towards great coordination than calls on enemy movements do.

There is only so much knowledge one gains from simply calling out enemy numbers and enemy siege.