Guild Wars 2

No one is begging from TC. I’m just glad the people in my server explored every possible tactics to make this match competitive. We extended our hands not once but twice, that would be enough imo.

JaredKincade.9761:

Jahn.7019:

Had BG kept TC down in the points, they probably would have been in T1 next match with SBI coming down.

But since TC is gaining points and BG seems to have SoR on the brain, they are losing their rating gain.

This matchup will probably go another 2-3 weeks, at which point, BG will have sat in T2 the longest of any “T1 ready” server and any rating gain from wins at that point will be negligible again since SoR is sitting in T2 for 8 weeks and TC will have been in there a month, TC will become the new IOJ and BG will be stuck in T2 limbo. And we’ll have BG/SoR/TC for another 6 weeks.

60k plus lead isn’t big enough for you?

First you guys complain that we win, now you are complaining that we aren’t winning by enough? I excepted this forum to be full of excuses from SoR this week, but this is the funniest one so far. We aren’t winning by enough points. lol

No, the vast majority of WvW do not know or care how or why we go up or down. All the commanders I know just don’t like SoR. So we are pushing you first. Of course, points from TC are just as good as points from SoR, but many of our goal, is to see a red colored SoR.

So TC, stop begging for an alliance with SoR, they are not going to give you one because they want the ability to attack you, to keep you in 3rd. Instead, take the fight to them, and claim your right as the color blue. (that and its easier to clear zombie trebs from blue keep than red in EBG….)

What? He’s saying 60k isn’t enough for YOU. Meaning YOU cannot seem to win by enough to go into T1. For 5 weeks all we’ve been hearing about is BGs run to T1….whens that coming again? Keep stacking! You’ll get there champ!

House just passed fiscal cliff plan not two minutes ago … .I guess no need to rez you then!

JaredKincade.9761:

Jahn.7019:

Had BG kept TC down in the points, they probably would have been in T1 next match with SBI coming down.

But since TC is gaining points and BG seems to have SoR on the brain, they are losing their rating gain.

This matchup will probably go another 2-3 weeks, at which point, BG will have sat in T2 the longest of any “T1 ready” server and any rating gain from wins at that point will be negligible again since SoR is sitting in T2 for 8 weeks and TC will have been in there a month, TC will become the new IOJ and BG will be stuck in T2 limbo. And we’ll have BG/SoR/TC for another 6 weeks.

60k plus lead isn’t big enough for you?

First you guys complain that we win, now you are complaining that we aren’t winning by enough? I excepted this forum to be full of excuses from SoR this week, but this is the funniest one so far. We aren’t winning by enough points. lol

No, the vast majority of WvW do not know or care how or why we go up or down. All the commanders I know just don’t like SoR. So we are pushing you first. Of course, points from TC are just as good as points from SoR, but many of our goal, is to see a red colored SoR.

So TC, stop begging for an alliance with SoR, they are not going to give you one because they want the ability to attack you, to keep you in 3rd. Instead, take the fight to them, and claim your right as the color blue. (that and its easier to clear zombie trebs from blue keep than red in EBG….)

Begging? I’m sure SoR and BG wish TC was collectively begging for an alliance.

Back to business:

Scores for 2h30am on GMT -3 (8h30pm on PST)

I’ve been more in a watching-mode this week, than direct posting mode since some of the posts are so facepalm-worthy. Sure, you bought the game and its your own keyboard so you can type what you want or play the way you want. But to those few TC posts about some possible non-aggression towards SoR, first of all – was it agreed at server-wide level? If not, pls don’t try to post it as if it has been agreed upon so as to avoid any confusions. If there’s anything agreed upon, I’d like to have regular commanders comment on this – I see SoR has denied anything of sorts and TC regulars didn’t mention anything yet.

To my knowledge, we’ve been doing good so far despite having many people still on vacations, and the same can be said for all 3 servers. I don’t see the need or desperation to call for an alliance yet when none of the 3 servers are at their full capacity with the holidays, and all 3 servers holding their ground well so far. It’s only our 2nd week in this tier and we’re still in the “testing the waters” mode while bringing our best fights with current numbers against these both.

BG & SoR seems to have some bad blood between themselves, and I’ll leave it at that for them to deal with each other. We really don’t have to ask any particular server to only focus on one enemy and not fight us while we’re dealing with both of them, it’s their choice and their willingness whether to aim for 1st or settle at 2nd or whatever.

Honestly, I haven’t seen these posters make a single post here in the past representing TC and suddenly they come over here asking for alliances and stuff – I mean not sure if these are new transfers or just someone who has nothing to do with TC just posting something to make us look weak and are not aware of how TC rolls in general. We don’t back off from a fight, nor do we have to request other server to not attack us (except if its a peacewalk or JP or something like that). We got good strong people willing to stand up and fight by themselves and some great commanders who can lead their team to some epic battles.
Edit:- The energy spent here is better off spent on bumping our recruitment thread so we get more Oceanic coverage and have better fights instead of asking an enemy to ally with us, which always would end up badly, because majority of your or their server isn’t aware of such “truce” and ending up in unnecessary bad blood.

@ Jahn – We do understand how the rating system works. We do also after reading your 20 posts understand that you want us to fucus TC cause you are afraid you might actually loose to TC. The thing is though, that alot on BG dont head out to WvW with the aim of maxing the score. We head out there to have some fun. Things are different when something is at stake, like the first week we were in Tier1. Reality is that facing a different enemy at this point will only slightly change our score, and that some people are resting and charging up their batteries for that first week in tier1, where we know sleeping wont be allowed.

@ TC and SoR ( including TW – yes I know you guys dont get much forum love.. ) great fights in TC Hills last night. We had one goal when we took down that outer gate, and that was to have some great 3 way fights inside, and for the next hour or so, that was what we had.

/Salute to both of you.

phaneo.4597:

I’ve been more in a watching-mode this week, than direct posting mode since some of the posts are so facepalm-worthy. Sure, you bought the game and its your own keyboard so you can type what you want or play the way you want. But to those few TC posts about some possible non-aggression towards SoR, first of all – was it agreed at server-wide level? If not, pls don’t try to post it as if it has been agreed upon so as to avoid any confusions. If there’s anything agreed upon, I’d like to have regular commanders comment on this – I see SoR has denied anything of sorts and TC regulars didn’t mention anything yet.

To my knowledge, we’ve been doing good so far despite having many people still on vacations, and the same can be said for all 3 servers. I don’t see the need or desperation to call for an alliance yet when none of the 3 servers are at their full capacity with the holidays, and all 3 servers holding their ground well so far. It’s only our 2nd week in this tier and we’re still in the “testing the waters” mode while bringing our best fights with current numbers against these both.

BG & SoR seems to have some bad blood between themselves, and I’ll leave it at that for them to deal with each other. We really don’t have to ask any particular server to only focus on one enemy and not fight us while we’re dealing with both of them, it’s their choice and their willingness whether to aim for 1st or settle at 2nd or whatever.

Honestly, I haven’t seen these posters make a single post here in the past representing TC and suddenly they come over here asking for alliances and stuff – I mean not sure if these are new transfers or just someone who has nothing to do with TC just posting something to make us look weak and are not aware of how TC rolls in general. We don’t back off from a fight, nor do we have to request other server to not attack us (except if its a peacewalk or JP or something like that). We got good strong people willing to stand up and fight by themselves and some great commanders who can lead their team to some epic battles.

I’m on TC and I disagree with this.

No JP truce! All JP-ers need to die! I would even help the other servers kill our JP-ers if it was possible. SoR and BG PLEASE… I BEG you to camp the JP 24/7. Make sure to use lots of siege in there to prevent groups of people from getting through together. Thanks in advance

Smokee.1754:

@ TC and SoR ( including TW – yes I know you guys dont get much forum love.. ) great fights in TC Hills last night. We had one goal when we took down that outer gate, and that was to have some great 3 way fights inside, and for the next hour or so, that was what we had.

/Salute to both of you.

I had to (as usual) leave to the office in the midst of the battle when we pushed SoR off Hills keep, when suddenly somone pointed that they’re back at the inner gate. Can someone summarise what happened after that pls? I had a blast hammering away everyone on my up-leveled Norn Guardian and giving my team chances to push forward (while dying good 3 times in the process).
So yes, /salute everyone for the great fights!

I’m not sure what has been said recently as the discussion is moving quickly, but may I make a suggestion to SoR and TC? There’s not much chance of either of you gaining first place from BG, but there’s a much better chance that one of you could steal away second place with a good lead over third, if you simply focused on the other guy and not BG in particular. I see a lot of focus on hitting BG, more than each other, and I just don’t get the strategic reasoning behind this. :<

I wish I knew how the rating system worked. If there was only someone who could explain it to me!

A threesome between all three, with BG on top and SoR in the middle so BG’s stuff won’t touch with TC’s.

I love 3 way fights esp. in SM / hills / garr – farm kills on balistas ftw … dnt ever 4get ur loot bags lol

Cliques.3947:

I wish I knew how the rating system worked. If there was only someone who could explain it to me!

Its a broken system which reward the loser if he get slightly better and punish the winner if he doesn’t get even better than he was…

That’s all you need to know…

Jeknar.6184:

Cliques.3947:

I wish I knew how the rating system worked. If there was only someone who could explain it to me!

Its a broken system which reward the loser if he get slightly better and punish the winner if he doesn’t get even better than he was…

That’s all you need to know…

Actually, I was hoping Jahn would explain it again for the 15th time. Then, of course edit said post 4 or 5 times after. Then call everyone ignorant whilst making a jab at one or both servers. Word is he dont even play GW2, he just likes to troll the boards.

Aberrant.6749:

I’m on TC and I disagree with this.

No JP truce! All JP-ers need to die! I would even help the other servers kill our JP-ers if it was possible. SoR and BG PLEASE… I BEG you to camp the JP 24/7. Make sure to use lots of siege in there to prevent groups of people from getting through together. Thanks in advance

I or majority of regulars who fight on the field could care less about what’s happening on JP’s, as I’ve only done EB JP 2-3 times maybe and that’s it. My point was why are we talking about things as if its decided in general and the whole media is talking about it. This is only derailing the thread and the discussion about actual match is lost somewhere in between.

phaneo.4597:

I’ve been more in a watching-mode this week, than direct posting mode since some of the posts are so facepalm-worthy. Sure, you bought the game and its your own keyboard so you can type what you want or play the way you want. But to those few TC posts about some possible non-aggression towards SoR, first of all – was it agreed at server-wide level? If not, pls don’t try to post it as if it has been agreed upon so as to avoid any confusions. If there’s anything agreed upon, I’d like to have regular commanders comment on this – I see SoR has denied anything of sorts and TC regulars didn’t mention anything yet.

To my knowledge, we’ve been doing good so far despite having many people still on vacations, and the same can be said for all 3 servers. I don’t see the need or desperation to call for an alliance yet when none of the 3 servers are at their full capacity with the holidays, and all 3 servers holding their ground well so far. It’s only our 2nd week in this tier and we’re still in the “testing the waters” mode while bringing our best fights with current numbers against these both.

BG & SoR seems to have some bad blood between themselves, and I’ll leave it at that for them to deal with each other. We really don’t have to ask any particular server to only focus on one enemy and not fight us while we’re dealing with both of them, it’s their choice and their willingness whether to aim for 1st or settle at 2nd or whatever.

Honestly, I haven’t seen these posters make a single post here in the past representing TC and suddenly they come over here asking for alliances and stuff – I mean not sure if these are new transfers or just someone who has nothing to do with TC just posting something to make us look weak and are not aware of how TC rolls in general. We don’t back off from a fight, nor do we have to request other server to not attack us (except if its a peacewalk or JP or something like that). We got good strong people willing to stand up and fight by themselves and some great commanders who can lead their team to some epic battles.
Edit:- The energy spent here is better off spent on bumping our recruitment thread so we get more Oceanic coverage and have better fights instead of asking an enemy to ally with us, which always would end up badly, because majority of your or their server isn’t aware of such “truce” and ending up in unnecessary bad blood.

This is a great post.

If I came off as grouping all of TC with the few here who are repeatedly asking for an alliance, I apologize. I know deep down they don’t represent the entire server, but its very easy to forget when several people say the same thing. I know many of us here fall into that trap. Mostly my words aimed at TC, were to encourage you to gain a place from 6th to 5th by pushing SoR.

To Jahn, the 60k + was aimed at both TC and SOR as you are pretty close in points throughout most of the day. BG is going to play how we want to play, if it gets us to tier 1, then so be it. It we get not quite there, then I think we’ll be ok, because beating SoR week after week is pretty fun, and after all thats why we play. And in the meantime, we’ll keep recruiting and refining our skills so that when we do get to tier 1, we will be that much more prepared.

To be honest, all fights in game are fun. And I know the vast majority of the people I’m playing the game with, aren’t here making the other servers hate their server, so its unfair to them. Alas, such is human nature.

(Still hoping for Red SOR before Red BG)

Mighty Assasin.3816:

JaredKincade.9761:

(Still hoping for Red SOR before Red BG)

Might want to get a Red TC 1st

TC is already Red! :/

I don’t want to see a Red SoR…
I want to see a Green SoR…

In T3!

phaneo.4597:

I’ve been more in a watching-mode this week, than direct posting mode since some of the posts are so facepalm-worthy. Sure, you bought the game and its your own keyboard so you can type what you want or play the way you want. But to those few TC posts about some possible non-aggression towards SoR, first of all – was it agreed at server-wide level? If not, pls don’t try to post it as if it has been agreed upon so as to avoid any confusions. If there’s anything agreed upon, I’d like to have regular commanders comment on this – I see SoR has denied anything of sorts and TC regulars didn’t mention anything yet.

To my knowledge, we’ve been doing good so far despite having many people still on vacations, and the same can be said for all 3 servers. I don’t see the need or desperation to call for an alliance yet when none of the 3 servers are at their full capacity with the holidays, and all 3 servers holding their ground well so far. It’s only our 2nd week in this tier and we’re still in the “testing the waters” mode while bringing our best fights with current numbers against these both.

BG & SoR seems to have some bad blood between themselves, and I’ll leave it at that for them to deal with each other. We really don’t have to ask any particular server to only focus on one enemy and not fight us while we’re dealing with both of them, it’s their choice and their willingness whether to aim for 1st or settle at 2nd or whatever.

Honestly, I haven’t seen these posters make a single post here in the past representing TC and suddenly they come over here asking for alliances and stuff – I mean not sure if these are new transfers or just someone who has nothing to do with TC just posting something to make us look weak and are not aware of how TC rolls in general. We don’t back off from a fight, nor do we have to request other server to not attack us (except if its a peacewalk or JP or something like that). We got good strong people willing to stand up and fight by themselves and some great commanders who can lead their team to some epic battles.
Edit:- The energy spent here is better off spent on bumping our recruitment thread so we get more Oceanic coverage and have better fights instead of asking an enemy to ally with us, which always would end up badly, because majority of your or their server isn’t aware of such “truce” and ending up in unnecessary bad blood.

I think anyone is perfectly in their rights to point out why an alliance is a good idea. I was not aware that a handful of forum frequenters had self-appointed themselves the TC or SoR representatives. I suppose that’s why I’m not worried about who thinks they represent us on the forums because no one does, everyone gets a say. TC rolls however it rolls. You can say we don’t form alliances all you want but the fact is that in the past we haven’t needed to. You even recalled that we actually -have- had alliances which demonstrates the capacity for another.

In this new match-up, our old tactics no longer work to keep us competitive. While we do have a lot of great veteran commanders, we haven’t had any lasting success since we moved into this tier because of factors we can’t control like the strong night attrition despite having experienced it before with CD. What we can control is the focus of our efforts.

Anyone who’s ever played a simple game of Risk understands that the worst course of action is for TC and SoR to continue fighting each other while BG is neglected and steamrolls everyone. This is an opportunity that screams for us to be tactical in our approach. It bears repeating that forming a temporary alliance because we’re outnumbered doesn’t make us weak, it makes us strategic, something which I generally felt distinguished us from opponents in the past.

Anyone who agrees should feel free to post support here to let others know that there are both TC and SoR people who intend not to fight each other, at least until the bigger threat is abated. Its just as simple as that and should continue if BG doesn’t move up or TC doesn’t move down. There’s no such thing as an official alliance… we get it… But every person can still vote with their actions and lead by example. I’ve chosen to ally or ignore SoR until BG is consistently pushed down. Rule of thumb is that SoR is not kill on site unless I’m seriously attacked or defending territory needed to bring the fight to BG.

Alliances are pointless in this tier. So you beat BG by enforcing a strict 2v1 for a few weeks. Now one of you moves up to tier 1 and now what? If you can’t win t2 by yourself, do you expect to win t1 by yourself?

Mighty Assasin.3816:

JaredKincade.9761:

(Still hoping for Red SOR before Red BG)

Might want to get a Red TC 1st

Jared is saying he wants SOR to drop to 3rd in T2 (by virtue of TC beating SoR) before BG becomes 3rd place in T1.

Do u guys realised we have almost 2x more posts/views than Tier1’s thread? :P Definitely tier2 is a winner here!

Durakone.5237:

I’ve chosen to ally or ignore SoR until BG is consistently pushed down.

The fact that you mentioned majority of the commanders have agreed to your proposal whereas nothing has been communicated anywhere to my knowledge, and the fact that I was part of a zerg yesterday morning taking points in SoRBL – points to the fact that it is NOT a common knowledge to almost anyone. If its a EB-exclusive thing, pls mention it as not everyone is on EB all the time or anytime, and don’t bring up “Majority of TC commanders” thing here.

Sure, I have made a couple of friends from SoR [TW] guild, after having a duel with one of them and having a friendly chat in /party. I’m sure a day later I had to fight the same players during a breakout event in TCBL. I’d never go forward based on that event or whatever and propose an alliance. Second week of this matchup is too sooner for anything of this sorts. At one timeslot we severely lack numbers, and funny as it may sound, I play at that very timeslot, being someone from Asia and I understand how it feels facing a 10:1 kind of situation. I’ve seen it the last time we faced BG & SoR separately when we were left only with our spawn, during Orb Era.

Sure, alliances are legit in this game, nothing illegal or wrong or anything. But it depends on what your goals are, what are you aiming for, how long something like this can last for. I haven’t seen anyone from SoR come forward and support this idea either, infact they’re straight up rejecting the idea and the commanders have denied any such talk or decision on TC community website.
If we’re not able to make any gains during our strongest hours even after the return of many regulars whom I haven’t seen in the last 2 weeks, then maybe we can think of an alliance or approach someone, it would make sense at that time. Trying to shake up things just two weeks into the tier isn’t helping anyone at all. Alliance can only help you keep the top server in their position by denying them upper tier, but it isn’t helping your server since your supposed ally is happily raking up points behind your back and its too late by the time you realize it.

pot.6805:

Alliances are pointless in this tier. So you beat BG by enforcing a strict 2v1 for a few weeks. Now one of you moves up to tier 1 and now what? If you can’t win t2 by yourself, do you expect to win t1 by yourself?

Other BG have expressed interest to see if the rest of ya can rise to the challenge. Beating BG seems kind of like a symbolic gesture that would mix things up a little and part of the fun. When TC WvW is fully queued, we appear to be evenly matched thus BG ought to be the ones worrying about what happens when they don’t outnumber their opponents the majority of the time. You just deserve some practice with that.

What is the purpose of an alliance? Can TC and SoR both win?

spartanx.1364:

What is the purpose of an alliance? Can TC and SoR both win?

I was wondering… If TC and SoR make an alliance, and it beat BG down… Would TC allow SoR to go up to T1 on their place (or vice-versa)? That wouldn’t make any sense to me…
And in the end if that was the case, it would form up a BG-TC alliance against SoR, keeping the Tier stuck as it is, only risking change the third member, since you cannot control the first from T3…

There are no alliances, nor will there ever likely be.

There is, however, strategy. People have a hard time separating the two.

~Nyari Cil, Queen of EB.

You can all discuss who represents who in here, but you might want to try talking to the people who has to deal with BG’s massive oceanic crew every single day. My post has nothing to do with “winning” , points or even trying to move up a tier. It’s just me being concerned about the ones that’s ALWAYS had to work twice as hard to defend a single keep…

phaneo.4597:

…I haven’t seen anyone from SoR come forward and support this idea either, infact they’re straight up rejecting the idea and the commanders have denied any such talk or decision on TC community website.
If we’re not able to make any gains during our strongest hours even after the return of many regulars whom I haven’t seen in the last 2 weeks, then maybe we can think of an alliance or approach someone, it would make sense at that time. Trying to shake up things just two weeks into the tier isn’t helping anyone at all. Alliance can only help you keep the top server in their position by denying them upper tier, but it isn’t helping your server since your supposed ally is happily raking up points behind your back and its too late by the time you realize it.

I stated my experiences came from in game, not a forum and you apparently missed some comments here in support. You don’t want to beat BG? Good for you, I do. I’m not going to waste my time on something if I feel like the people I’m fighting could be helping with the bigger threat. We’re the RP server that was the butt of a lot of jokes but in that same respect we’ve demonstrated cool achievements unique to our server. Demonstrating the power of an alliance or non-aggression pact is the next challenge I think we’re capable of and it gives me something to fight for in a bleak situation rather then just trying to slap the other loser while the winner continues to take all.

Durakone.5237:

I think anyone is perfectly in their rights to point out why an alliance is a good idea. I was not aware that a handful of forum frequenters had self-appointed themselves the TC or SoR representatives. I suppose that’s why I’m not worried about who thinks they represent us on the forums because no one does, everyone gets a say. TC rolls however it rolls. You can say we don’t form alliances all you want but the fact is that in the past we haven’t needed to. You even recalled that we actually -have- had alliances which demonstrates the capacity for another.

In this new match-up, our old tactics no longer work to keep us competitive. While we do have a lot of great veteran commanders, we haven’t had any lasting success since we moved into this tier because of factors we can’t control like the strong night attrition despite having experienced it before with CD. What we can control is the focus of our efforts.

Anyone who’s ever played a simple game of Risk understands that the worst course of action is for TC and SoR to continue fighting each other while BG is neglected and steamrolls everyone. This is an opportunity that screams for us to be tactical in our approach. It bears repeating that forming a temporary alliance because we’re outnumbered doesn’t make us weak, it makes us strategic, something which I generally felt distinguished us from opponents in the past.

Anyone who agrees should feel free to post support here to let others know that there are both TC and SoR people who intend not to fight each other, at least until the bigger threat is abated. Its just as simple as that and should continue if BG doesn’t move up or TC doesn’t move down. There’s no such thing as an official alliance… we get it… But every person can still vote with their actions and lead by example. I’ve chosen to ally or ignore SoR until BG is consistently pushed down. Rule of thumb is that SoR is not kill on site unless I’m seriously attacked or defending territory needed to bring the fight to BG.

Two issues with this:

First, Risk is never simple.

Second, BG will never be consistently pushed down, even if you do get everyone to ally. We are on the way to tier 1, its just a matter of time at this point.

What TC should really do, is take advantage of BGs dislike of SOR and use it to push themselves one step closer. You can’t be fourth until your fifth anyway. Because if you wait, and BG moves to Tier 1, your going to have a green team that won’t be willing to ignore you in favor of the server we love to hate.

Why doesn’t TC become blue team, before you worry about being green team tier 2, and stop fighting SoR’s fights for them. Your just helping yourselves stay in the same place you are now.

Smokee.1754:

@ Jahn – We do understand how the rating system works. We do also after reading your 20 posts understand that you want us to fucus TC cause you are afraid you might actually loose to TC. The thing is though, that alot on BG dont head out to WvW with the aim of maxing the score. We head out there to have some fun. Things are different when something is at stake, like the first week we were in Tier1. Reality is that facing a different enemy at this point will only slightly change our score, and that some people are resting and charging up their batteries for that first week in tier1, where we know sleeping wont be allowed.

Points here as of this post:
BG: 157,431 // +265 ppt // +33.766 rating
SoR: 98,984 // +205 ppt // -33.621 rating
TC: 95,295 // +225 ppt // +0.540 rating

You don’t understand how the system works, then. BG lost a ton of points last week because BG was unable to beat TC by a margin larger than the previous week (as there was no match-up between us). Last week, BG defeated TC by 50,074 points. This week, TC is losing by 62,136 points. Additionally, last week TC lost to SoR by 25,926 points. This week, TC is losing to SoR by just 3,689 points. Last week, SoR lost to BG by 24,148 points, and is losing to BG this week by 58,447 points.

The net result of all of this is that, realistically, SoR is playing against TC this week, and BG is playing against BG. If the goal is to keep BG in Tier 2 next week, then SoR and TC are not playing correctly, as both servers are losing to BG by significantly more points than last week, which is allowing BG’s ranking to go up. If the goal was to prevent BG from moving up to the next tier, then both TC and SoR would be denying BG points and minimizing the effect of BG’s Asian/Oceanic crews.

If the goal is to push TC down a tier, then BG is playing correctly and SoR is playing incorrectly, as BG has a larger point jump while SoR has a significantly smaller point jump. The difference in points between BG this week and last week for TC is -12,062 additional points lost. The difference in points between SoR this week and last week for TC is +22,237 additional points gained. TC is earning an additional 10,175 points this week, which is why our score is more or less stable. BG has done everything they can to push us down this week -- our fate is in SoR’s hands until Friday.

If the goal is for SoR to gain points this week and move closer to 4th place, then none of the servers are playing correctly. SoR is hemorrhaging points to TC and failing to gain a net positive against BG, BG is placing too much pressure on SoR and not enough on TC, and TC is gaining too much ground compared to the amount that SoR is losing.

Realistically, Tarnished Coast is playing for second this week, not first, while both Sanctum of Rall and Tarnished Coast are failing to contest Blackgate for first. Sanctum of Rall is therefore playing to defend second place, while Blackgate is playing for sweeping victory rather than playing for consistent point denial. If Blackgate were to pressure Sanctum of Rall and ease back on Tarnished Coast for the rest of the week, then Tarnished Coast would claim second (and additional points from SoR) without threatening Blackgate’s upward momentum vs Tarnished Coast. The problem is that the gap between Blackgate and Sanctum of Rall would increase even more, which is only going to hurt Blackgate next week.

Stating that Blackgate is playing incorrectly against Tarnished Coast this week is simply not true — they have increased the point gap between this week and last week by about 24%. The “sweet spot” that BG should be looking to hit should be about a 15%-20% point increase every week against us in order to remain positive — this gives BG about 4%-9% wiggle room against us with the current score posting. Anything more than that will become too difficult for them to maintain, and anything less than that will be too small to be significant long-term.

If any alliances are to form, it would be in the best interests of BG to pair up with either TC or SoR for the rest of the week. In particular, it would be SoR that BG would want to help. BG is winning against SoR by over 2x their last victory margin compared to last week, which is going to be difficult if not impossible for them to best next week. Meanwhile, the gap increase in points over TC is only around 24%, which is much more easily overcome. SoR would benefit from this by increasing the point gap over TC, and salvaging their falling ranking.

Jahn.7019:

Whatever score has the LARGEST point differential between BG and TC. As you clearly saw when it was BG/SoR/IOJ, BG won the matches by this lead amount now but got very little rating boost because SoR and IOJ were in the tier so long.

The huge point rating gain is all coming from TC, as TC sits in the tier longer, BG will gain less points from every win, to which after a certain point they will start LOSING rating unless you are winning with even bigger amounts again. And you will get the same BG/SOR/IOJ effect where you can win by huge amounts but get very to little no boost or even lose points at which point BG is going to sit in T2 for an extended period until a T1 server has a bigger rating drop. But you can’t count on SBI losing a big rating next week either, as they sit in that spot longer they will lose less rating for coming in third also.

BG’s huge point rating gain this week is coming from both TC and SoR, and TC’s rating gain is coming from SoR only. Time in the tier doesn’t matter as long as the first place server isn’t over-zealous. Inconsistency is what keeps matchups stale/stagnant, not how long a server has been around. If BG wins with a score of 197k this week and had a winning score of 237k last week, then the only thing that matters is that BG won over both TC and SoR by a significant enough margin, which they’ve done this week. The winning score doesn’t matter — the difference between victory margins does.

Glicko ratings consider time, yes, but not in the way you’re presenting it to be. Glicko rewards reliability, not exponential or sudden growth. Blackgate has a greater chance of upward progression in its current state by earning small, but consistent, gains over its opponents. Any sudden growth will harm Blackgate long-term if it isn’t supported by consistent scoring the following weeks. That’s why when servers get transfers/better coverage they move up — they are now consistently scoring more points each match when compared to their opponents.

Thrashbarg.9820:

What would make the most sense would be for 1st place to focus 2nd (unless 3rd gets too close in points), for 2nd to focus on 1st (again, unless 3rd gets too close in points) and 3rd to take as much as they can wherever they can. No alliance required, but maybe asking too much in the common sense department.

1st and 2nd, your real enemies are each other. 3rd, well, as the zombies say: “Kill everything!”.

First should be trying to ensure that they gain a consistent increase over each of their opponents, while second should be trying to lose a small/tighter number of points to first and a consistently larger number over third place, and third place should be trying to lose smaller/tighter numbers of points to both first and second. This makes an alliance between any server valid from week to week — in fact, it would be best for second and third place to gang up against first place for the first half of the week, and for first and third to gang up against second for the second half of the week.

This week BG is hitting that goal vs TC but not SoR, SoR is hitting neither goal, and TC is hitting the “keeping points close” goal vs SoR. That’s why our points look the way they do: SoR is giving up too many points compared to last week.

It is very likely that BG will not gain as many points next week (they’ll likely lose points or remain roughly the same), while TC will lose points or remain roughly the same and SoR will gain points.

BG will gain less points not because their skill has changed, but because they will not be able to improve upon their victory margin this week versus SoR. SoR will gain points because of that. TC will likely remain consistent, unless SoR earns significantly more points over TC compared to this week, or BG earns the same margin against TC as they are winning over SoR this week (in which case the roles will flip again in two weeks and TC will make significant gains rather than SoR).

BG wants to be consistent in order to move up, otherwise it’s going to flip back and forth forever. I suspect that this is why SoR and IoJ were against BG for so long.

Here’s my prediction from last week. I’d hazard to say that it was accurate thus far.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/22-12-BG-SoR-TC/page/10#post1091434

phaneo.4597:

phaneo.4597:

Are we losing the matchup? Yes. Are we gaining ratings? OH HELL YES.

Don’t get too excited about that. History has shown that a server generally is expected to gain rating during its first week in a tier. We’ll probably either gain a small positive next week or dip anywhere from 0.1 to 20 points.

This week’s scoring doesn’t matter for two important reasons:
1. Blackgate has a new opponent, which means they can’t go as strongly positive this week as they’re no longer beating Isle of Janthir. This usually results in the top server in the tier tanking in points. TC experienced this when CD and YB swapped places in Tier 3.

2. It’s the holiday, and so population coverage has been shuffled around. We won’t get a realistic representation of how well Blackgate and Sanctum of Rall face up against Tarnished Coast until at least this coming Tuesday (when Blackgate is back in action after the weekend).

Due to these two factors, our score this week does nothing but confirm that we’ll be here next week. It doesn’t accurately represent our ability to play in the tier. We won’t understand how well we’re doing until this time next week when things are more normalized.

What we’ve learned this week is that Tarnished Coast is capable of playing in this tier, but only just. We need significantly more coverage to remain competitive during certain time frames. Unless we play the ranking system intelligently, we’ll drop down to Tier 3 again within a few weeks. As it’s nearly impossible for the entire server to get on the same page at all times, I’d give it 5 weeks without coverage transfers before we’re in Tier 3 again, based solely off of how the ranking system works.

Actually it’s pretty straight forward logic. If 2nd want to be 1st, the 2nd must attack 1st. If 3rd want to be 1st or 2nd but only have one force to handle one opponent. If 3rd chose 1st without doing anything to 2nd, 3rd will still be 3rd. If 3rd chose 2nd, they might become new 2nd because the current 1st need to concentrate on 2nd anyway.

In my opinion, BG tend to fight SoR first anyway even in EBG due to the sheer hatred in forum for several weeks accumulated as well as the design of EBG (Overlook’s the hardest, Valley is easier). SoR got no choice but to retaliate BG’s attack and to defeat BG to get to the top. TC got a choice either BG or SoR. If TC choose BG, BG have to defend leaving SoR rising in points while TC may get more points but SoR also getting more points too meaning TC will still being 3rd unless TC perform both role hitting both SoR/BG at the same time.

Pretty logic. In the end the current ranking system also has to depend on the upper tier and the lower tier also. Currently upper tier still a bit undecided yet, if SBI still underperform, BG may get a shot there. For lower tier it’s now still tied so it’s all safe and sound for tier2 not to drop down to tier3.

Yeah the rating system is nice will all its math, but would anyone else be up for 3rd place dropping a tier, 1st moving up, and 2nd remaining as is? It would simply be nice to face off against different opponents. Just my thoughts and opinion.

Kerithlan, I appreciate your analysis but that just shows the problem with the glicko system anet set up. THe majority of people want to win their given tier each week, not focus on minute theorycrafting and paragraphs of analysis and be forced to play a certain way. And good luck getting your whole server to do one thing so you can gain 5 more glicko points every week. The system is flawed, it doesn’t work for the wvw system as it is set up currently. The fact that you can win your tier for 7 weeks straight by an average of 40k yet not move up is just dumb, I don’t care what anyone says about the ratings blah blah blah.

pot.6805:

Kerithlan, I appreciate your analysis but that just shows the problem with the glicko system anet set up. THe majority of people want to win their given tier each week, not focus on minute theorycrafting and paragraphs of analysis and be forced to play a certain way. And good luck getting your whole server to do one thing so you can gain 5 more glicko points every week. The system is flawed, it doesn’t work for the wvw system as it is set up currently. The fact that you can win your tier for 7 weeks straight by an average of 40k yet not move up is just dumb, I don’t care what anyone says about the ratings blah blah blah.

I wasn’t defending it — I was just explaining how it works and why the current scoring is the way it is. It also allows us to understand that Blackgate won’t be moving up a tier next week as you will be losing heavy points to SoR. If Blackgate wants to move up sooner rather than later, then Blackgate needs to gain very few points against SoR next week and gain approximately the same margin of growth against TC, then maintain small growth against each.

The only other way you’ll move up now rather than later is by focusing TC incredibly hard. You need to deny us points to an equivalent degree as SoR (2x+ from last week) and prevent us from sticking close to SoR, but that isn’t going to happen in just two days.

Your best bet to keep points next week is to help keep TC’s score tight with SoR’s to minimize the amount of points you’ll lose to them. You’ll likely lose points to both of us next week due to earning too much from both of us this week, even if you blast us out of the water by 100k each. It’s just that it’s going to be a more significant point loss to SoR unless you can keep the point difference above or around 50k.

SoR Attacks BG.
SoR gets attacked by BG.
TC attacks SoR.
SoR Attacks TC.
BG attacks TC.
TC attacks BG.

Get over it. There aren’t any current alliances, or 2v1’s going on.
Many play for the fight. Which if playing for that, they all seem to be playing correctly, because each day there are very epic fights.

As for BG, their Oceanic/EU crews are very strong while TC/SoR’s are very weak or non existent. BG manages to easily hold 3 maps at all green (or 99% BG owned) while pushing and owning over 60% of a 4th WvW map.

Now it lasts apx 4-6hours like that. BG can field enough during the time zone SOR/TC lack coverage and can’t even get above 20-30 people into 1 map. Whereas BG can field apx 60-80(or more?) in 3 maps at the same time along with pushing a 4th map. (Now the player numbers are guesses. Not 100% correct.)

Mikitten058:

SoR Attacks BG.
SoR gets attacked by BG.
TC attacks SoR.
SoR Attacks TC.
BG attacks TC.
TC attacks BG.

Get over it. There aren’t any current alliances, or 2v1’s going on.
Many play for the fight. Which if playing for that, they all seem to be playing correctly, because each day there are very epic fights.

As for BG, their Oceanic/EU crews are very strong while TC/SoR’s are very weak or non existent. BG manages to easily hold 3 maps at all green (or 99% BG owned) while pushing and owning over 60% of a 4th WvW map.

Now it lasts apx 4-6hours like that. BG can field enough during the time zone SOR/TC lack coverage and can’t even get above 20-30 people into 1 map. Whereas BG can field apx 60-80(or more?) in 3 maps at the same time along with pushing a 4th map. (Now the player numbers are guesses. Not 100% correct.)

this is me flamming you

All of these hackusations really makes me wonder whether I should still be attempting ninja solos on towers. I just solo’d mendons(snuck in as BG flipped it, mind you) and just as I capped, a mesmer walked in and I swear, he looked at me as if I was hacking :P. He then proceeded to port 10 BG inside and eventually they retook mendons :/

Remember friends, just because it’s a screenshot of a guy inside a tower with a close gate, does not mean it is a hacker. =)

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/769jy

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/e49ue

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/bbomi

Second and third pictures were earlier when I tried to ninja mendons. Busted open the gate with ram with 3 other teammates(who abandoned me, btw) and ultimately failed as there was a player presence. I stayed in there for over 10 minutes and they repaired the gate, and then decided I had no chance so made a last stand. Why am I posting this? To clear my name, of course, as the nature of soloing towers can destroy your reputation, even if it’s 100% legit, and to point out that not everyone inside a close tower is a hacker/glitcher. Any hackusations(the ones from SoR, BG, or TC) should not assume anything. If you weren’t there for the entire time, don’t call anyone out, ever.

Mikitten058:

SoR Attacks BG.
SoR gets attacked by BG.
TC attacks SoR.
SoR Attacks TC.
BG attacks TC.
TC attacks BG.

Get over it. There aren’t any current alliances, or 2v1’s going on.
Many play for the fight. Which if playing for that, they all seem to be playing correctly, because each day there are very epic fights.

As for BG, their Oceanic/EU crews are very strong while TC/SoR’s are very weak or non existent. BG manages to easily hold 3 maps at all green (or 99% BG owned) while pushing and owning over 60% of a 4th WvW map.

Now it lasts apx 4-6hours like that. BG can field enough during the time zone SOR/TC lack coverage and can’t even get above 20-30 people into 1 map. Whereas BG can field apx 60-80(or more?) in 3 maps at the same time along with pushing a 4th map. (Now the player numbers are guesses. Not 100% correct.)

lololol I’m a helicopter

in all seriousness tho, there isnt a “treaty” or server alliance, 9/10 players see red and it dont matter if its TC or BG, they are just as targettable and attackable. stand in the way, and you get an arrow in the face. when it comes down to being severly outmanned, some people do chose to go mess around in tc borderlands, because its a more even fight, than 5v20 when attacking bg. if it seems unbalanced, that is the ONLY reason why. people want to have fun, and its not fun when you stand zero chance in a small friends grp

To the BG D/D ele wearing exalted gear that was dueling me (a TC ele in winged gear) in front of Ogrewatch tonight, touche. You were simply better than me

We had a fun few fights until SoR came and chased us all off :/

skinnyb.5920:

To the BG D/D ele wearing exalted gear that was dueling me (a TC ele in winged gear) in front of Ogrewatch tonight, touche. You were simply better than me

We had a fun few fights until SoR came and chased us all off :/

SoR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7X2_V60YK8

A Treaty won’t save SoR/TC your servers honestly don’t have the round the clock coverage that blackgate does. Recruit more Oceanic WvW’rs. Coming from a blackgate original I was there when the server went to t1 and it wasn’t pretty, the zergs were bigger the exploits were way more often. I’m honestly quite happy staying in the t2 bracket. So Sor/TC you want to make a treaty maybe you should make a treaty to throw in the towel and ensure blackgate moves up a tier cause we got no problem leading t2 bracket week after week, and this isn’t because we are more skilled it is just a numbers game in our favor.

Dredrum.2563:

A Treaty won’t save SoR/TC your servers honestly don’t have the round the clock coverage that blackgate does. Recruit more Oceanic WvW’rs. Coming from a blackgate original I was there when the server went to t1 and it wasn’t pretty, the zergs were bigger the exploits were way more often. I’m honestly quite happy staying in the t2 bracket. So Sor/TC you want to make a treaty maybe you should make a treaty to throw in the towel and ensure blackgate moves up a tier cause we got no problem leading t2 bracket week after week, and this isn’t because we are more skilled it is just a numbers game in our favor.

Don’t drown us in your bravado, you’ll be losing points next week. We don’t even have to do anything for that to happen, as you’ve done it to yourselves.

Edit: In fact if you had been patient you’d be moving up to Tier 1 after next week with the way SBI has been falling after getting hit by a transfer exodus, but instead you’re with us for another two weeks at least. Maybe more if SBI gets some reinforcements.

What bravado? Just stating facts, until SoR/TC can put up an Oceanic Assault there is no competition.

Dredrum.2563:

A Treaty won’t save SoR/TC your servers honestly don’t have the round the clock coverage that blackgate does. Recruit more Oceanic WvW’rs. Coming from a blackgate original I was there when the server went to t1 and it wasn’t pretty, the zergs were bigger the exploits were way more often. I’m honestly quite happy staying in the t2 bracket. So Sor/TC you want to make a treaty maybe you should make a treaty to throw in the towel and ensure blackgate moves up a tier cause we got no problem leading t2 bracket week after week, and this isn’t because we are more skilled it is just a numbers game in our favor.

Well to be fair, we played Sea of Sorrows for 3 weeks, and put of a hell of a fight (some matches were back and forth until the final days, much smaller of a gap than now). A week later Sea of Sorrows went to dominate T1 as BG got pushed down to T2. I do believe we can at the very least, put of a fight in T1, but yeah we lack the oceanics…

Dredrum.2563:

What bravado? Just stating facts, until SoR/TC can put up an Oceanic Assault there is no competition.

If we were to throw in the towel (which, mind you, isn’t going to happen), it’d still take you at the minimum two weeks to move up. You need to beat SoR by at least 85k points next week, or else you’ll be going negative.