Guild Wars 2

Curious what kind of comps ppl are running for 15 mans. I’m T2 if it matters.

Thx

Asking about GvG, not open world WvW.

Those are extinct.

gennyt.3428:

Those are extinct.

They sure are, although I have seen some 15-20 comps, made up of mostly Hammer Revenants, Dragonhunters, Druids and Necromancers. Basically just a small pirate ship.

Massive ranged damage. Little to no coordination needed. Boring and terrible for WvW.

Most 15 man comps i have seen are about 6 guardians/dh, 2 eles, 2 mesmer, 3 revs and 2 necros…warriors and frontline revs can interchange with guardians, druids with eles, backline revs and necros interchangeable, unblockable marks needed tho; this is just what ive seen while in wvw tho

4 guardians (take your pick on DH or not, I pref not), 2 warriors, 4 reapers, 2 eles, 2 heralds, 1 chrono

That’s the kind of comp I usually take, minus the heralds, cause no one in my guild likes playing those :P

15 gyro scrappers would permastealth, permadaze, permasuperspeed, permastab, permaheal better than warrior passive, permareflect 360 degrees, permaprotection, a permawaterfield that moves with them, pulls every second and they would also look kitten if all where Asurans.

But nooo… kittenty dragunhunter (charr with backpacks of course) and human reapers (for teh boobies) is the norm.

Bah!

I’ll crawl back under my rock now and hiss at guild groups running by.

gennyt.3428:

Those are extinct.

How so?

garland.5193:

gennyt.3428:

Those are extinct.

How so?

New meta, blob vs blob.

garland.5193:

gennyt.3428:

Those are extinct.

How so?

Anet refused to take the ecosystem of WvWvW into consideration and most of the diversity is gone. Not just raiding guilds but roamers, havoc. It’s just musical chair blobs that mostly queue EBG at prime time. Mostly.

garland.5193:

Curious what kind of comps ppl are running for 15 mans. I’m T2 if it matters.

Thx

15 mans are long gone everywhere except for Mag where they are the preferred group size for ‘solo roaming’.

Dawdler.8521:

15 gyro scrappers would permastealth, permadaze, permasuperspeed, permastab, permaheal better than warrior passive, permareflect 360 degrees, permaprotection, a permawaterfield that moves with them, pulls every second and they would also look kitten if all where Asurans.

But nooo… kittenty dragunhunter (charr with backpacks of course) and human reapers (for teh boobies) is the norm.

Bah!

I’ll crawl back under my rock now and hiss at guild groups running by.

You can’t pull something like this off because as soon as one person gets picked off, the rest of your group starts to fall apart. A more diverse group is able to cover for weaknesses better, which is why you never saw all guardian zergs, despite how OP they used to be.

15 man is a zerg outside of NA prime at least in T1. For running skirmish, I am pretty sure an entire party of DH is probably the most optimal party a team can build. Between the leaps, pulls, traps, DPS, invisible fences, blocks and general sustain from the DH line an entire pack of them coordinating can pin snipe, leap into a back line, pull across the pirate ship, etc. Nomad builds when coordinating are hella tanky and spike some solid DPS together.

TorquedSoul.8097:

garland.5193:

gennyt.3428:

Those are extinct.

How so?

New meta, blob vs blob.

O IC. I meant GvG not open world WvW.

Reverence.6915:

Dawdler.8521:

15 gyro scrappers would permastealth, permadaze, permasuperspeed, permastab, permaheal better than warrior passive, permareflect 360 degrees, permaprotection, a permawaterfield that moves with them, pulls every second and they would also look kitten if all where Asurans.

But nooo… kittenty dragunhunter (charr with backpacks of course) and human reapers (for teh boobies) is the norm.

Bah!

I’ll crawl back under my rock now and hiss at guild groups running by.

You can’t pull something like this off because as soon as one person gets picked off, the rest of your group starts to fall apart. A more diverse group is able to cover for weaknesses better, which is why you never saw all guardian zergs, despite how OP they used to be.

… what weakness are you talking about?

Please be specific because I am curious to know what you can come up with that isnt just “now you are 14 instead of 15”, which hurt any group regardless of composition.

Dawdler.8521:

Reverence.6915:

Dawdler.8521:

15 gyro scrappers would permastealth, permadaze, permasuperspeed, permastab, permaheal better than warrior passive, permareflect 360 degrees, permaprotection, a permawaterfield that moves with them, pulls every second and they would also look kitten if all where Asurans.

But nooo… kittenty dragunhunter (charr with backpacks of course) and human reapers (for teh boobies) is the norm.

Bah!

I’ll crawl back under my rock now and hiss at guild groups running by.

You can’t pull something like this off because as soon as one person gets picked off, the rest of your group starts to fall apart. A more diverse group is able to cover for weaknesses better, which is why you never saw all guardian zergs, despite how OP they used to be.

… what weakness are you talking about?

Please be specific because I am curious to know what you can come up with that isnt just “now you are 14 instead of 15”, which hurt any group regardless of composition.

Lack of instant stab, pushing power, ranged AoE. You get caught in 2 DH’s longbow #5, and well bombed. Sure, elixir S out of it! Easy. Now you don’t have your free getaway besides the 25% threshold S and the enemy frontline rolls into you with Guardian hammer rings, DH leap immobilizes, hammer immobs, and all manner of ranged nonsense. Since necro marks/rev hammer #2/3 aren’t projectiles your reflects are useless against them, and say someone uses Might Signet + Gunflame and oneshots you from 75%. God forbid they have a venomshare and you die inside your elixir S passive. As scrappers your ability to strip any coordianted groups stability is limited to Hammer 5 + 3 combo and without sizable stability nowadays you’ll be CC’d into oblivion.

Current meta for 15v15 skirms on guild arena looks more less like: 4 guardians, 2 revenants (herald spec), 2 engineers (scrapper spec), 2 necromancers (reaper spec most often), 1 warrior (berserker spec), 2 elementalists (usually tempest spec), 2 mesmers (chronomancer spec).

The squad is divided into 3 parties. Usually you put 2 guardians, 1 revenant, 1 mesmer, 1 scrapper into 2 parties. The rest goes into 3rd party. The gameplay on guild arena are is much less a pirate ship, because the arena is to small and looks rather like a point defense in PvP, so expect lot of mess and skill spam on point. You got little to none place for maneuvers, the whole squad moves together in one ball, so there is no place for movement strategy nor separate frontline, backline and focus party (which is a shame imo). You put much more into defense, boon sharing and condi cleanse, since the ranged powercreep builds after HoT can wipe your team if you do not maintain high survivability. Guardians are your party core, they give stabi, prot, etc. (of course you do not use bows). Revenants run glint and dwarf for defense, they give you lot of prot/damage reduction, fury, might, boon sharing. Engineers run scrapper builds, they give you smoke fields for engaging the fight and reveal the opponent team. Mesmers give boon sharing/upkeep and resistance. Necromancers run condi builds very often (for more survivability). Warrior of course built for killshot.

Of course detailed comps for different guilds may vary depending on the play style and skill, but this is a general comp to start with.

Waffle.3748:

Lack of instant stab, pushing power, ranged AoE.

Scrappers got lots of instant stab and options for ranged AoE.

I dont know what you mean with “pushing power”.

Dawdler.8521:

Waffle.3748:

Lack of instant stab, pushing power, ranged AoE.

Scrappers got lots of instant stab and options for ranged AoE.

I dont know what you mean with “pushing power”.

Pushing power is basically the ability to absorb damage while dealing forward damage, which is basically exclusive to guardians and warriors right now, though condi reaper can probs pull it off as well.

Reverence.6915:

Dawdler.8521:

Waffle.3748:

Lack of instant stab, pushing power, ranged AoE.

Scrappers got lots of instant stab and options for ranged AoE.

I dont know what you mean with “pushing power”.

Pushing power is basically the ability to absorb damage while dealing forward damage, which is basically exclusive to guardians and warriors right now, though condi reaper can probs pull it off as well.

Reverence is pretty much right on. Also Scrappers have kitten for stability, one 5s stack per gyro activated (none of which stunbreak) which requires you not to take Adaptive Armor (one of their best traits), a 3s stack with a 5 second ICD that requires you to evade an attack from Perfectly Weighted, and the thrown Elixir which has a cast time and again does not stunbreak. So that’s probably 2 stacks of instant stab in an average build (one from bulwark gyro, another from stealth gyro), neither stunbreak and of which one is on a 40s cooldown and the other 20s. You’ll want the thrown elixir for reliability, which leaves you one open spot for another utility (probably toolkit as its your best choice). That is not “lots of instant stab”. So looking at it you don’t have any stunbreaks, low stability, not a ton of cleanse unless some of your other engineers utilize the e-gun. Engineer ranged options are a bit of a joke, the rifle functions best at around 600 range, mortar is very average damage, and grenades are probably going to hurt you more than help with retal being what it is.

Most probably what would happen is someone gets locked into a situation even the passive S won’t save him/her from and then you’re either down a man, or you try to res (gyros are going to be cleaved before they even get 2 ticks of res off) and get locked down yourself. Your group support isn’t enough (not enough cleanse, group stability or protection), and all you’d end up doing is annoying a competent group before they grind you into the dirt.

Edit: Scrapper definitely has a place in 15 man, but putting 15 of one class in any situation where they are facing equal or greater numbers isn’t going to work (assuming people aren’t braindead). The strength of diversified groups is that they have so many options to cover any weak points a certain player/class might have. Your scrapper example is extremely weak to ranged harass (especially against no projectile ranged pressure such as wells, marks, rev hammer abilities, DH longbow #5, etc)

Reverence.6915:

Dawdler.8521:

Waffle.3748:

Lack of instant stab, pushing power, ranged AoE.

Scrappers got lots of instant stab and options for ranged AoE.

I dont know what you mean with “pushing power”.

Pushing power is basically the ability to absorb damage while dealing forward damage, which is basically exclusive to guardians and warriors right now, though condi reaper can probs pull it off as well.

Ah… Scrappers got tons of protection, 5s of continous block to push straight through while reflecting all ranged projectiles 360 degrees and they can leap in through their own waterfield (which give them protection). When they get there they can pop healing fields that cleanse condis every second. All that while passive healing about as much as a warrior signet.

Damage absorption is not really a problem.

Forward damage depend on how one define it. Comparing melee damage, scrapper will probably rival the guard but lag behind the warrior. On the other hand, you can be much, much more flexible with kits and your ranged damage. In my experience you barely need it though – in zerg fights on my necro vs scrapper I often do 10x the damage on my scrapper in 4s than the necro did the entire fight lol. Reflect and pirateshipping, fantastic combo when they clash.

But I digress.

I know what we’re all thinking is the best 15 man in WvW.

15 rangers with pig pets.

Xeno.4610:

Current meta for 15v15 skirms on guild arena looks more less like: 4 guardians, 2 revenants (herald spec), 2 engineers (scrapper spec), 2 necromancers (reaper spec most often), 1 warrior (berserker spec), 2 elementalists (usually tempest spec), 2 mesmers (chronomancer spec).

The squad is divided into 3 parties. Usually you put 2 guardians, 1 revenant, 1 mesmer, 1 scrapper into 2 parties. The rest goes into 3rd party. The gameplay on guild arena are is much less a pirate ship, because the arena is to small and looks rather like a point defense in PvP, so expect lot of mess and skill spam on point. You got little to none place for maneuvers, the whole squad moves together in one ball, so there is no place for movement strategy nor separate frontline, backline and focus party (which is a shame imo). You put much more into defense, boon sharing and condi cleanse, since the ranged powercreep builds after HoT can wipe your team if you do not maintain high survivability. Guardians are your party core, they give stabi, prot, etc. (of course you do not use bows). Revenants run glint and dwarf for defense, they give you lot of prot/damage reduction, fury, might, boon sharing. Engineers run scrapper builds, they give you smoke fields for engaging the fight and reveal the opponent team. Mesmers give boon sharing/upkeep and resistance. Necromancers run condi builds very often (for more survivability). Warrior of course built for killshot.

Of course detailed comps for different guilds may vary depending on the play style and skill, but this is a general comp to start with.

Thanks! That’s exactly what I was looking for.

Do people still do GvG’s in guild halls? We did for about a month after HoT but quickly moved back to OS.

T3 is in a bad place right now, so we’ve been spending more time in EOTM, and have had a surprising number of impromptu GvG’s. Last night, the opposing guild had a good gank team they used to a deadly effect.