While many hate this current scoring system, I’ve seen far closer results because of it and a lot more action on the final days because of it. Many matchups have turned around in the last few hours. So I will say I’m one of the few that prefers it.
Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.
2-1-1 was not given nearly enough time to determine whether it was better than, worse than, or about the same as 3-2-1. 3-2-1 was give ~ 4 months before Anet decided to change it, 2-1-1 was given ~3 weeks. No good comparisons could be drawn from that. And 5-4-3 will leave us in the exact same place we started, which was changed precisely because it wasn’t working that great.
The thing I like best about 2-1-1 is it allows for large swings in glicko points. This kind of removes the need for glicko adjustments. Since they made the change, we (SoS) haven’t had the same match twice. I think it’s fantastic for QoL when you’re not stuck in bad matchups for weeks on end.
I know they talked about going 6-5-4, but if they do that the final score will have exactly the same spread as 3-2-1 because anyone that understands math can tell you how counting works. But it will be worse than 3-2-1 because it will prevent glicko from adjusting itself and the same matchups are likely to appear with insurmountable glicko walls.
2-1-1 was an elegant solution to both the matchmaking issue and the glicko adjustment issue in one change. It also seems to change how servers behave because now you can’t fight for second place. At least the matches I’ve played it means fewer instances of double-teaming the weakest server in the time slot as the second place server had to gun for the first place.
There are still other issues to be resolved, but I’d say the 2-1-1 change is one of the best made in a long time.
2-1-1 is bad and Anet should feel bad. Its a good thing theyre changing it, the sooner the better. If you are the worst server out of the 3, there is no way you can win because you’ll only get 1 point even if you place second * every single * skirmish. It’s no fun at all.
2-1-1 was not given nearly enough time to determine whether it was better than, worse than, or about the same as 3-2-1. 3-2-1 was give ~ 4 months before Anet decided to change it, 2-1-1 was given ~3 weeks. No good comparisons could be drawn from that. And 5-4-3 will leave us in the exact same place we started, which was changed precisely because it wasn’t working that great.
I agree, especially as responses seemed to be mixed (personally I like it), I feel that it should have been given a few months to determine whether to keep it or not.
Some guy on a bunch of servers, mostly Mag
Former top 50 spvp engi main.
2-1-1 is bad and Anet should feel bad. Its a good thing theyre changing it, the sooner the better. If you are the worst server out of the 3, there is no way you can win because you’ll only get 1 point even if you place second * every single * skirmish. It’s no fun at all.
If you’re the worst server out of the 3 you aren’t going to win anyway…..
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
I don’t like 2-1-1 because it leads to extremely false Glicko scores. Games look closer but the reality is (at least for me in EU) we are getting some pretty big blow out matches.
Say server 1 wins 60% of the time, server 2 wins 40% of the time and server 3 is getting karma trained all day and night winning none of them. While the difference between the scores won’t look much with server 3 clearly in last place it doesn’t reflect how the match up really was which is total domination during daytime by server 1, night kappas and early morning karma train for server 2 and whipping boy for server 3.
That type of match up wasn’t fun for server 3 either as both bigfer servers go for the weakest in an effort to protect their stuff and get points from the weaker server. You then end up with people on server 3 leaving WvW for the rest of the match up.
This scoring system is producing closer looking games but it’s completely wrong in representing how a match up went, at least the old per tick scoring accurately represented how much you got pwnd by.
2-1-1 is bad and Anet should feel bad. Its a good thing theyre changing it, the sooner the better. If you are the worst server out of the 3, there is no way you can win because you’ll only get 1 point even if you place second * every single * skirmish. It’s no fun at all.
If you’re the worst server out of the 3 you aren’t going to win anyway…..
On the 3-2-1 system reliably coming 2nd by not coming 3rd could make for a close match up towards the end, now if you reliably come 2nd you will reliably come last in the match up and it no longer becomes close.
This 2-1-1 system is stupid and shouldn’t have been brought in at all.
This scoring system is producing closer looking games but it’s completely wrong in representing how a match up went, at least the old per tick scoring accurately represented how much you got pwnd by.
On the flip side the closer looking scores keep a lot of fairweather players from quitting early in the week. As the OP pointed out, a lot of matches are coming down to the last day.
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
2-1-1 is bad and Anet should feel bad. Its a good thing theyre changing it, the sooner the better. If you are the worst server out of the 3, there is no way you can win because you’ll only get 1 point even if you place second * every single * skirmish. It’s no fun at all.
If you’re the worst server out of the 3 you aren’t going to win anyway…..
On the 3-2-1 system reliably coming 2nd by not coming 3rd could make for a close match up towards the end, now if you reliably come 2nd you will reliably come last in the match up and it no longer becomes close.
This 2-1-1 system is stupid and shouldn’t have been brought in at all.
That’s changed how a lot of people play. Instead of focusing on keeping the weakest server down the second place server has to go after the first place server in order to win some skirmishes. Maybe it hasn’t been working out well for your server but it’s made a lot of match ups much more interesting across several tiers in NA.
Now if they would just fix the boring combat…..
Also known as Puck when my account isn’t suspended
LGN
2-1-1 is bad and Anet should feel bad. Its a good thing theyre changing it, the sooner the better. If you are the worst server out of the 3, there is no way you can win because you’ll only get 1 point even if you place second * every single * skirmish. It’s no fun at all.
If you’re the worst server out of the 3 you aren’t going to win anyway…..
On the 3-2-1 system reliably coming 2nd by not coming 3rd could make for a close match up towards the end, now if you reliably come 2nd you will reliably come last in the match up and it no longer becomes close.
This 2-1-1 system is stupid and shouldn’t have been brought in at all.
That’s changed how a lot of people play. Instead of focusing on keeping the weakest server down the second place server has to go after the first place server in order to win some skirmishes. Maybe it hasn’t been working out well for your server but it’s made a lot of match ups much more interesting across several tiers in NA.
Now if they would just fix the boring combat…..
It’s not just my server, every single match up I’ve been in the strongest server has targeted the weakest first.
Last week we had Kodash vs Aurora Glade vs Elona Reach and Elona was the absolute weakest with practically no presence outside of one blob map hoping. Kodash was stronger than both our servers combined running what must have been a 70 strong map blob in EB with at least 50-70 on our own border while simultaneously taking all of Elona border.
Who did Kodash go for first? Whoever was weakest at the time and this is a pattern we’ve seen since 2-1-1 has come into being.
As for your other comment it isn’t keeping g fair weather players in for a few reasons.
1. Most of them don’t understand the scoring still.
2. The scores still show a very big loss on the skirmish with one server having almost double the other two at most times.
3. As soon as they get zerged down by a massive map blob for the 3rd time with the outnumbered buff on EB they still leave.
Except this is driving long term players out of the game too, no point playing if you’re coming 3rd or 2nd all the time as it makes no difference.
The biggest issue I see is that the second strongest server could easily get third under this system.
Server 2 never beats server 1, but beats server 3 for all but one skirmish, but that one skirmish server 3 wins, and they beat server 2 by one point for the week.
Lets be honest here…..how would the 2nd place server get punished under this system and how would the loser server get rewarded?
-well its due to the fact that the loser, at some point during the day, does significantly better than the other 2 servers and outranks them both for 1 skirmish. Is this wrong though? no, its not wrong. Every time zone deserves the same amount of love and treatment, if anything is correct to do it this way. It allows every 2 hour interval to be of equal rating…so you’ll have 3-4 skirmishes over the nightime that you don’t have control over per say.
-everything is due to population imbalances and teh fact the 3 servers aren’t balanced to begin with….thats where the problems lie if there any with this scoring system. You doing better than another server for 8 hours and getting the some rewards isn’t the issue here. The issue is neither server can surpass the lead server for all of those 8 hours. this is possibly due to people not playing properly to accomodate the new point system……“i.e. the two losers need to gang the winning server…….the winner and the 2nd place shouldn’t be ganging the third place server anymore lol (u need to learn!)”
Whatever…..people don’t wanna learn new ways to play. Or ‘some’ servers don’t want to anyways. 2-1-1 was a huge improvement, and deserves more love and appreciation. It also would have provided a very natural step and eez way to tinker with the server imbalances and work towards fixing those. Then from there they could fix other things……and we would have a fixed mode.
But nope….back to square one…back to everyone being angry at the mode and nothing gettting done.
Plus it allows multiple multiple opportunities to log on suddenly at the start of a new skirmish and have the ability to change ur server from 3rd place to 2nd place. A large wvsw guild couldn’t ask for anything better than that. It allows a small number of coordinated skirmishes to have a huge impact on ur score.
I kill you in one gunflame, or I kill you in two.
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People just prefer to be able to fight for 2nd so they don’t feel like losers (since they are incapable of actually winning)… So let them have their 3-2-1.
2-1-1 is bad bad bad. 2nd place server just get punished too much for it while weakest server gets heavily rewarded for no reason. change it already wth!?!?
Look at how effective someone is in a full Soldiers set.
Look at how effective someone is in a full Dire set.
Nice balance.
the kitten does it matter? unless anet starts handing out heroic badges to servers on victories even the winner doesnt get even a participation trophy.
Lets be honest here…..how would the 2nd place server get punished under this system and how would the loser server get rewarded?
Being not punished for 3rd place is a reward. The 2-1-1 system rewards nightcapping. There is a certain spanish server that takes the first place between 11pm and 7am every night while showing absolutely no presence the rest of the day.
This results in:
Server 1: 16 hours 1st, 8 hours 3rd: finishes 1st
Server 2: 24 hours 2nd: finishes 3rd
Server 3: 8 hours 1st, 16 hours 3rd: finishes 2nd
Not fair by definition!
the winner and the 2nd place shouldn’t be ganging the third place server anymore lol (u need to learn!)"
You can’t gank the leading server if there is a 90/5/5 (%) domination during night-time.
the kitten does it matter? unless anet starts handing out heroic badges to servers on victories even the winner doesnt get even a participation trophy.
What determines match ups and your servers “strength”?
Glicko.
What affects Glicko?
Points gained and score difference.
So for the uneducated out there, a 2-1-1 system will rank 3rd and 2nd place servers closer together even if the reality is the 3rd place server is woefully undermanned to fight either. Instead of going down and fighting servers they should or the stronger one’s going up we end up with more and more blow out matches as score deviation is much smaller.
This is why people talk about PPT and don’t neglect it unless you’re a server hopper in which case all servers are disposable to you.
Lets be honest here…..how would the 2nd place server get punished under this system and how would the loser server get rewarded?
Being not punished for 3rd place is a reward.
3rd place is punished. As the same level at 2nd. Apart from Glicko, the 2-1-1 is a 1-0-0 aka “the winner takes all”. Have the 2nd win ? No. He doesn’t deserve the point nor the 3rd. This system is meant to make victory the goal for the 2nd not salvaging. There is no consolation prize. If the oponent is out of your league you don’t deserve reward for being less bullied than the 3rd. If the oponent was on a more equal level, you don’t deserve reward for not winning.
Every system accounting every timezone rewards nightcapping. As long you don’t dismiss some timezones (like night = 50% points only) which is totally against WvW philosophy (permanent war), you can’t have a system that doesn’t reward the very fact of “being here when others aren’t”. It can be night, morning or afternoon, it’s the same thing : oponent is being rewarded by its dedication of having people on the battlefield while your server is punished for having none.
There is a certain spanish server that takes the first place between 11pm and 7am every night while showing absolutely no presence the rest of the day.
This results in:
Server 1: 16 hours 1st, 8 hours 3rd: finishes 1st
Server 2: 24 hours 2nd: finishes 3rd
Server 3: 8 hours 1st, 16 hours 3rd: finishes 2nd
Not fair by definition!
You know that Server 3 can have more points in total that Server 2 and thus on the first scoring system be better than Server 2. It can even have more points than Server 1 and be ranked #3 by the 3-2-1 system or #2 in the 2-1-1. Is that fair ? No, because there is no fairness. It’s only metrics.
I Am An Intruder – War 80
Ich Bin Marc – Thief 80
All Your Dolyaks Are Belong To [Us] (Fort Ranik)
Lets be honest here…..how would the 2nd place server get punished under this system and how would the loser server get rewarded?
Being not punished for 3rd place is a reward. The 2-1-1 system rewards nightcapping. There is a certain spanish server that takes the first place between 11pm and 7am every night while showing absolutely no presence the rest of the day.
This results in:
Server 1: 16 hours 1st, 8 hours 3rd: finishes 1st
Server 2: 24 hours 2nd: finishes 3rd
Server 3: 8 hours 1st, 16 hours 3rd: finishes 2nd
Not fair by definition!
the winner and the 2nd place shouldn’t be ganging the third place server anymore lol (u need to learn!)"
You can’t gank the leading server if there is a 90/5/5 (%) domination during night-time.
Like it or not WvW is a game mode that requires 24/7 coverage. Just because a certain server is capitalizing on that and is rather lazy during peak times doesn’t mean they don’t deserve that spot for playing the game mode the way its supposed to be played.
After 2 years of scientific calculations in a hi-tech laboratory we came to the conclusion that a scoring system of 25-16-14 would make WvW great again.
Why develop a simple server merging system so that people can play with their friends on different servers when you can just change 3 numbers and fix everything?
