Guild Wars 2

http://youtu.be/-n8ifIn9iaE

http://i.imgur.com/XEJsz.jpg

If you don’t think that the thief class in WVW is entirely out of whack, you absolutely do not know what you are talking about or you are a thief and don’t want to see your class even close to be in balance. This happened in a span of two seconds. I suffered 28073 damage in two seconds. I have all exotics and 20K hp. My toughness is 1600 at the moment playing the Ranger class wearing medium armor. Once again, I ask the DEV that posted “before listing a class as OP, see if you can counter it.” I am sure that the guardian class can counter it a bit better than a ranger but this is ridiculous. I am not asking for opinions, only that the right people (that actually care) to see the data.

Oh, I thought this was going to be about CND-Mug-Signet-Backstab.

You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

EasymodeX.4062:

Oh, I thought this was going to be about CND-Mug-Signet-Backstab.

You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

So what does that mean? You can do more damage than 28K in two seconds?

well at least you are making xp in the process AND you threw dirt at him

lol I’ve been killed by a solo thief that picked me off the front in less than half a second with 5k steal, 5k cloak n dagger, 15.9k backstab when I was leading a group to the doors of a keep. I’ve also heard of people hitting 35k backstabs in WvW.

So I notice the Thief that did that is on SBI. I play on Blackgate and ran into a similar situation last night where I was basically instakilled by a Thief from SBI. I was in EB last night and on the way towards Ogre, where I noticed a few skulls on the map up ahead. When I went to check it out, there were 2 or 3 BG player corpses laying there, and an SBI Defender (this Thief) laying down inside one of the corpses. I started shooting him where he got up, did the Thief vanish and blink thing and killed me before I could hit a single skill. Then he went back over to the other player’s corpse, dropped some kind of goo on it and layed down in it again lol. It was pretty weird.

Anyhoo … my combat log looked very similar to yours. I actually laid there dead and chatted with the other dead player in /say for a minute. We both were dumbfounded. I wonder if it was the same guy. Is this kind of burst damage possible from any class?

swilkers.5938:

EasymodeX.4062:

Oh, I thought this was going to be about CND-Mug-Signet-Backstab.

You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

So what does that mean? You can do more damage than 28K in two seconds?

I see your 28k in two seconds and raise you 33k in 0.75 seconds.

“Pre-casted” CND (7k), Mug (6k), Signet Backstab (19k), Sigil of Air proc (2k). GG. And they still have 8 or so initiative to play with.

All you need is a full glass cannon build with full Berserker exotics.

Most classes can hit some obscene damage totals, but Thieves have tools to spike further. Warriors can Kill Shot for >20k on glass 80s, and that’s at 1500 range. On my Mesmer I can burst combo 25k in about 2.5 seconds (all at 1200 range). All these numbers assume everything crits ofc.

Sidenote: Thief combo usable at 900 range without the extended Steal range trait. I don’t know if that trait is viable in a maximum burst backstab build (or what they need to trade off for it), but I imagine most would not bother getting it.

I think you’re all kind of missing the point of “backstab” being behind you. If your back is turned you need to get dead.

Also, I’ve seen warriors 2 shot thieves without them being able to do anything about it. There is balancing but if you don’t know how to evade after the first point you take damage you shouldn’t blame the class itself.

I don’t think you realize that all the damage occurs instantly with the Thief initiating at 900 range.

You may not actually play a Thief or play one well, but players that are better at the class can execute this.

Edit: And yes, I can very well blame the 150% damage signet and/or the ability for CND to be pre-casted with Steal not interrupting the ability.

Haste?

I think you forgot another other classes too.

Personally I would prefer no haste, no stacking might and no 150% signet. However, poisons should stack.

I think that’s awesome. I’m an Engineer, and sometimes I bump into the super huge burst thief or warrior, and it leaves me in awe. They’re real glassy though, interrupt them at the start and you have them, and they’re not too useful in large scale battles.

It would make me sad if ANet nerfed those thieves.

one day arenanet will realize thieves would be a lot more balanced if they added a set that had toughness and vitality on it. perhaps theyll even hint that this a staple set to wear for wvw by making it purchasable with badges dropped in wvw. until that day keep making these threads.

What exactly is going on in this video? Your radar and camera has you standing on the ramparts, your health bar never changes. Just curious.

I’ve never had a thief bust this kind of DPS on me. But I have had a warrior do it.

He jumped down from the battlements into our siege force. Charged up to me (6K damage) did bladetrail (10K damage) hit me once to down me and then ran back inside his keep. All this happened in about 4 seconds, and he had several player shooting him as he made his way back inside.
It didnt kill me as he left as soon as I was downed (I was on a catapult at the time, so I assume he just wanted me to not be firing) it was just ludicrous o.o

Was this today? I am a thief on stormbluff and I can easily do more than 28k damage in the span of 2 seconds with dancing daggers. As a thief with over 2k power and 98 bonus crit damage I can down light armor users with 1 dancing dagger or a backstab and a heartseeker. I’m not even full glass cannon which is the crazy part.

Mindvibe.4630:

one day arenanet will realize thieves would be a lot more balanced if they added a set that had toughness and vitality on it. perhaps theyll even hint that this a staple set to wear for wvw by making it purchasable with badges dropped in wvw. until that day keep making these threads.

You realize the pvp exotics you buy in WvW with the badges are power, vitality, toughness, right? its around 300 badges per piece.

Libalaw.5218:

I think you’re all kind of missing the point of “backstab” being behind you. If your back is turned you need to get dead.

Also, I’ve seen warriors 2 shot thieves without them being able to do anything about it. There is balancing but if you don’t know how to evade after the first point you take damage you shouldn’t blame the class itself.

LOL, here we go. The thieves speak up. Everyone listen. The graphics rendering is horrible. The thief appears and disappears and you don’t even see it since the graphics can’t keep up (and no its not my system, it’s a well stated problem with the game). The entire point of this is that there is no first point taken. It’s a blink kill. There is absolutely zero statement or point that you could make that could possibly in this or any other universe justify the numbers. Just because a thief “gets your back” doesn’t mean that they should automatically get the kill. That reaffirms that the baddies will continue to play this class. Once a thief engages a target and starts taking dots, there should be zero slip away. It’s bad enough that thieves can run away in the middle of a fight let alone do it and come back to fight again. Add the 30K blink damage and it’s blatantly obvious that things need adjusted.

Zindel.8673:

What exactly is going on in this video? Your radar and camera has you standing on the ramparts, your health bar never changes. Just curious.

I was scrolling the combat log to show the DPS taken. It helps to have numbers to back up “gripes” as the devs call it.

DustyRhodes.9407:

Was this today? I am a thief on stormbluff and I can easily do more than 28k damage in the span of 2 seconds with dancing daggers. As a thief with over 2k power and 98 bonus crit damage I can down light armor users with 1 dancing dagger or a backstab and a heartseeker. I’m not even full glass cannon which is the crazy part.

Yes, this was today. The worst part was he wasn’t even stealthed when it happened. He was being chased and just jumped down on me from a ledge and kept going with a warrior chasing him. He didn’t even stop. He probably killed him too and then just stealthed again.

Edit*

I know that I said that I wasn’t looking for opinions but since you state that you can do this, don’t you think that it’s excessive damage?

Yes, I get killed by these thieves too.

Yes, this never should have left beta.

No, ANet doesn’t care, or won’t do anything for a while.

Yes, I have made a thief myself now and am leveling it, because why put an effort for kills when you can just 1-2-3 kill someone in 2sec? And even if you fail you can disappear for good in perma stealth and come back whenever you want it.

Fun fact: when I made my thief, ALL the people in Tutorial area were thieves except one person.

swilkers.5938:

Zindel.8673:

What exactly is going on in this video? Your radar and camera has you standing on the ramparts, your health bar never changes. Just curious.

I was scrolling the combat log to show the DPS taken. It helps to have numbers to back up “gripes” as the devs call it.

This did NOT happen in 2 seconds. Nice try.

Liquid.9672:

So I notice the Thief that did that is on SBI. I play on Blackgate and ran into a similar situation last night where I was basically instakilled by a Thief from SBI. I was in EB last night and on the way towards Ogre, where I noticed a few skulls on the map up ahead. When I went to check it out, there were 2 or 3 BG player corpses laying there, and an SBI Defender (this Thief) laying down inside one of the corpses. I started shooting him where he got up, did the Thief vanish and blink thing and killed me before I could hit a single skill. Then he went back over to the other player’s corpse, dropped some kind of goo on it and layed down in it again lol. It was pretty weird.

Anyhoo … my combat log looked very similar to yours. I actually laid there dead and chatted with the other dead player in /say for a minute. We both were dumbfounded. I wonder if it was the same guy. Is this kind of burst damage possible from any class?

Did he look like this? I play on SBI.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeRIVx7olfg&feature=plcp

Honestly though, a lot of professions can ruin your day in a matter of seconds, some with AOE’s instead of single target. Thief backstab burst just happens to be one of the harder to avoid. It is absolutely possible though. I see quite a few people dodge the steal>c&d>backstab combo.

Thief backstab builds are all about risk vs. reward. If you miss a single c&d (or have it blocked) you are very likely to die in a matter of seconds yourself.

DustyRhodes.9407:

Mindvibe.4630:

one day arenanet will realize thieves would be a lot more balanced if they added a set that had toughness and vitality on it. perhaps theyll even hint that this a staple set to wear for wvw by making it purchasable with badges dropped in wvw. until that day keep making these threads.

You realize the pvp exotics you buy in WvW with the badges are power, vitality, toughness, right? its around 300 badges per piece.

so basically arenanet did everything they possibly could to help the original poster except put the armor on for him and issue him a wheelchair? is that a fair summary of the situation we find ourselves in?

swilkers.5938:

DustyRhodes.9407:

Was this today? I am a thief on stormbluff and I can easily do more than 28k damage in the span of 2 seconds with dancing daggers. As a thief with over 2k power and 98 bonus crit damage I can down light armor users with 1 dancing dagger or a backstab and a heartseeker. I’m not even full glass cannon which is the crazy part.

Yes, this was today. The worst part was he wasn’t even stealthed when it happened. He was being chased and just jumped down on me from a ledge and kept going with a warrior chasing him. He didn’t even stop. He probably killed him too and then just stealthed again.

Edit*

I know that I said that I wasn’t looking for opinions but since you state that you can do this, don’t you think that it’s excessive damage?

Yeah it is broken and I say it constantly in vent while in WvW with friends. Like I said I’m not even full glasscannon either. I have mostly berserker’s gear with a few vit/tough/power items like shoulders and boots, and all Beryl jewelry. With blinding powder, shadow refuge, and signet of shadows utilities. I can easily hit upwards of 12k backstabs on light armor users with very few stacks of might. I dont even have any points down the power tree either. I can only imagine how high my crits would be as full glass cannon.

Zindel.8673:

swilkers.5938:

Zindel.8673:

What exactly is going on in this video? Your radar and camera has you standing on the ramparts, your health bar never changes. Just curious.

I was scrolling the combat log to show the DPS taken. It helps to have numbers to back up “gripes” as the devs call it.

This did NOT happen in 2 seconds. Nice try.

Maybe less than two seconds. The combat log doesn’t have time stamps as far as I can tell. I am not exaggerating one quarter of one second.

Pistol whil got nerfed, Dont worry everything burst about the thief will get nerfed and then we will find a new way to kill you in 2 seconds. We always do.

Looks like longer than 2 secs. If you were suffering from him not rendering on your screen, and hitting you in invis mode. I can see how it would suck to die from that. Outside of, “Dagger storm”, you can CC a thief pretty easily.

Stop posting nonsense Mindvibe. Funny how you thieves think everyone else should build full toughness full vitality and go Guardian just so you don’t 2-sec instakill us.

Grow up and learn what balance is. Put your ego and supremacy aside. Play some other classes. No other class in this game comes even close to what Thief is. No matter what people mention, I’ve played WvW for a while and never have I had a “WTF” moment with any other class.

Krakah.3582:

Looks like longer than 2 secs. If you were suffering from him not rendering on your screen, and hitting you in invis mode. I can see how it would suck to die from that. Outside of, “Dagger storm”, you can CC a thief pretty easily.

I really wish that the combat log had time stamps. It was literally I see him and dead in two seconds. This isn’t the first time unfortunately. Well as stated by those that play the class, it’s very possible to do this. I don’t want to drag this on but wanted at the least to post it. ANET couldn’t get balancing right (by their own admission) in GW1. I just hope that since this is a new chapter for them, they can figure something out.

So…..

I see 6 hits on there and that doesn’t amount to 28k. I’m at work and can’t watch the youtube video but how many hits did you actually take and are you still claiming the thief hit you that many times in 2 seconds?

We aren’t even talking big hits here. This looks like a sham.

Also, yes, I play a thief (and a ranger) and it looks like you just sat there and took the hits. Lotus strike, dancing daggers, double strike, and wild strike plus whatever else was needed to kill you all in 2 seconds? That didn’t happen, man. It may have been quick but there are thief combos that are actually fast and this isn’t one of them.

Ianervan.3415:

Stop posting nonsense Mindvibe. Funny how you thieves think everyone else should build full toughness full vitality and go Guardian just so you don’t 2-sec instakill us.

Grow up and learn what balance is. Put your ego and supremacy aside. Play some other classes. No other class in this game comes even close to what Thief is. No matter what people mention, I’ve played WvW for a while and never have I had a “WTF” moment with any other class.

You say “you thieves” as if I didn’t just admit crit thieves are broken while playing one. The damage backstab does when you are behind the target needs to be reduced for sure. I wont mind if they nerf backstab and signet of shadows as both are extremely op in WvW.

What is CND? cloak and dagger??
doesnt that has to hit to be able to stealth you? lol

WvWvW does not = Arena style’d combat. If thieves are that dangerous, get a squad, carpet bomb anything remotely near you… the amount of AoE you can do against a crit thief while invisible will be hilarious. You don’t need to see your enemy to kill them, if ghost army patch hasn’t taught enough of you yet.

As for my thief, I’m full toughness/vitality build just because so many people freak out at thieves. I would rather do no damage and divert an entire zerg to chase me, making them weak for my zerg to kill as they chase an inviso-shortbow hopping tanky dude.

Ianervan.3415:

Stop posting nonsense Mindvibe. Funny how you thieves think everyone else should build full toughness full vitality and go Guardian just so you don’t 2-sec instakill us.

Grow up and learn what balance is. Put your ego and supremacy aside. Play some other classes. No other class in this game comes even close to what Thief is. No matter what people mention, I’ve played WvW for a while and never have I had a “WTF” moment with any other class.

i dont play thief. i also pointed out that a counter exists. what gear you decide to wear is completely your option. until you realize its no ones fault but your own, keep respawning.

swilkers.5938:

Libalaw.5218:

I think you’re all kind of missing the point of “backstab” being behind you. If your back is turned you need to get dead.

Also, I’ve seen warriors 2 shot thieves without them being able to do anything about it. There is balancing but if you don’t know how to evade after the first point you take damage you shouldn’t blame the class itself.

LOL, here we go. The thieves speak up. Everyone listen. The graphics rendering is horrible. The thief appears and disappears and you don’t even see it since the graphics can’t keep up (and no its not my system, it’s a well stated problem with the game). The entire point of this is that there is no first point taken. It’s a blink kill. There is absolutely zero statement or point that you could make that could possibly in this or any other universe justify the numbers. Just because a thief “gets your back” doesn’t mean that they should automatically get the kill. That reaffirms that the baddies will continue to play this class. Once a thief engages a target and starts taking dots, there should be zero slip away. It’s bad enough that thieves can run away in the middle of a fight let alone do it and come back to fight again. Add the 30K blink damage and it’s blatantly obvious that things need adjusted.

Mmm no. I don’t even use a stealth thief but I know how one works and I know how to counter it. The rendering is an issue yes…but if you want to see what’s broken and not broken go to SPvP as all the gear is the same and it comes to skill / class values at that point. WvW is somewhat broken right now…but yes let’s listen to you and nerf a class because you can’t counter it or because you’re not geared and they are.

BTW if you’re getting hit for 30K in 1 hit, I want you to show me this. If you’re getting hit for 30k over several hits, why aren’t you hitting the magic button that ignores all damage, IE the evade button?

" If thieves are that dangerous, get a squad"

This is getting ridiculous. One thief suggests we get full toughness full vita and go Guardian. The other thief suggests we get an entire squad to get one thief.

Again, are you people serious or you really don’t see a problem with the class you play?

Uhm, you can kill 50 thieves with 30 guys and some siege, maybe don’t even need the siege if you flank correctly. It’s really not that big of a problem. Learn2 WvWvW.

Ianervan.3415:

" If thieves are that dangerous, get a squad"

This is getting ridiculous. One thief suggests we get full toughness full vita and go Guardian. The other thief suggests we get an entire squad to get one thief.

Again, are you people serious or you really don’t see a problem with the class you play?

This is exactly why I usually stay away from the forums, but this one caught my eye. I feel like I’m the only non delusional thief that will admit when their class is unbalanced. In my opinion, bonus crit damage all together is unbalanced. I feel like it is a lot stronger than condition damage on any class in pvp.

Judas.5432:

So…..

Also, yes, I play a thief (and a ranger) and it looks like you just sat there and took the hits. Lotus strike, dancing daggers, double strike, and wild strike plus whatever else was needed to kill you all in 2 seconds? That didn’t happen, man. It may have been quick but there are thief combos that are actually fast and this isn’t one of them.

Well, I can tell you that it happened to me, just last night. I’m a lvl 80 Engineer with some Soldiers (Power, Vit, Tough) and Knight’s pieces mixed in. Yeah my gear favors Berserker’s stats, but I’m not full glass cannon. With my set I run with about 18k HPs. When the Thief saw me, he started running towards me, vanished, re-appeared next to me and I was dead. All of those skills I quoted above were listed in my combat log. There’s no way I just stood there and took it. It was virtually instant. I know absolutely nothing about Thief skill mechanics, but I’m just reporting what I experienced.

“Uhm, you can kill 50 thieves with 30 guys and some siege, maybe don’t even need the siege if you flank correctly. It’s really not that big of a problem. Learn2 WvWvW.”

Who needs to learn to WvW if you’re talking about a zerg consisting of 50 thieves?

Besides, WvW is not only about zerging; learning to WvW isn’t learning to zerg.

Your post is another example of facepalm thief comments. So this time to defeat imbalanced thief we have to get entire zerg. First it was get full vita full tough go Guardian, then get a squad and now get an entire zerg.

Also, recommending siege to fight overpowered classes? “It’s ok, it’s balanced by siege in WvW.” !!!

facepalm

No honestly, I’ve to stop reading this..

“This is exactly why I usually stay away from the forums”

Yeah, it’s not good for health I don’t mind people who come and say “Yeah, this and that needs work”. But pretending that all is well and balanced while it’s obviously not, that’s not okay. The problem with the thief class right now is that some players think they’re really that awesome player while they would suck with any other class. There are, of course, good thieves that would be good with other classes too or with balanced thief class.

Gamblit.5041:

swilkers.5938:

http://youtu.be/-n8ifIn9iaE

http://i.imgur.com/XEJsz.jpg

If you don’t think that the thief class in WVW is entirely out of whack, you absolutely do not know what you are talking about or you are a thief and don’t want to see your class even close to be in balance. This happened in a span of two seconds. I suffered 28073 damage in two seconds. I have all exotics and 20K hp. My toughness is 1600 at the moment playing the Ranger class wearing medium armor. Once again, I ask the DEV that posted “before listing a class as OP, see if you can counter it.” I am sure that the guardian class can counter it a bit better than a ranger but this is ridiculous. I am not asking for opinions, only that the right people (that actually care) to see the data.

1) Point.
Looking at your combat log i see:
2x Dancing Daggers. -2 Second
1x Full Auto Attack Combo – 2 Seconds
2x 1st Auto Attack Strikes.- 1,5 Second

So it’s already not 2 seconds.

2) Point.
Melee does more damage then range.
So fight melee with melee.

3) Point.
Dancing dagger bounces back to the target if it has a 2nd target in the effect area.
What this means is that you took extra 6k damage for keeping your pet near you.

My advice, if you want to succed in WvW, test your build in sPvP first. You’ll meet all the unique combinations there, in the fair environment.

Thank you! I was just about to post the same thing.

To add something else, every hit is critical with the exception of DS at the end of his rotation.

Did you count in quickness when calculating time?

Mindvibe.4630:

Ianervan.3415:

Stop posting nonsense Mindvibe. Funny how you thieves think everyone else should build full toughness full vitality and go Guardian just so you don’t 2-sec instakill us.

Grow up and learn what balance is. Put your ego and supremacy aside. Play some other classes. No other class in this game comes even close to what Thief is. No matter what people mention, I’ve played WvW for a while and never have I had a “WTF” moment with any other class.

i dont play thief. i also pointed out that a counter exists. what gear you decide to wear is completely your option. until you realize its no ones fault but your own, keep respawning.

You must not have read the part in the OP where he specifically states he is stacking both Vitality and Toughness and has 20k HP and 1600 Toughness on his Ranger.

Gamblit.5041:

1) Point.
Looking at your combat log i see:
2x Dancing Daggers. -2 Second
1x Full Auto Attack Combo – 2 Seconds
2x 1st Auto Attack Strikes.- 1,5 Second

So it’s already not 2 seconds.

2) Point.
Melee does more damage then range.
So fight melee with melee.

3) Point.
Dancing dagger bounces back to the target if it has a 2nd target in the effect area.
What this means is that you took extra 6k damage for keeping your pet near you.

My advice, if you want to succed in WvW, test your build in sPvP first. You’ll meet all the unique combinations there, in the fair environment.

Looking at the combat log in the video, the OP only got off two shots in that same timeframe and then two more attacks in downed state before he died. Considering also that the OP took 24k damage before he used his first downed state ability and he only has 20k HP, I think there’s more going on here.

I think the Thief probably had quickness up and the OP probably also healed right before he died, so in the timeframe that the Thief hit the OP 9 times, the OP hit the Thief twice and used a heal (and seeing as he used Crippling Shot I’m assuming he tried to dodge out of the way or run backwards after that shot, then healed, then went into downed state shortly afterwards).

So the Thief did do an insane amount of damage in a very short timeframe. Clearly not enough time for the OP to react and counter properly, even with Toughess and Vitality gear on.

Ianervan.3415:

" If thieves are that dangerous, get a squad"

This is getting ridiculous. One thief suggests we get full toughness full vita and go Guardian. The other thief suggests we get an entire squad to get one thief.

Again, are you people serious or you really don’t see a problem with the class you play?

Don’t listen to those guys. You don’t need full tough/vita (it won’t help much) and you don’t need a full squad (the thief will run from it). What you need is an understanding of how thieves work and think.

I can take down players who have no idea what I’m doing with ease. They drop like flies. But any class could say the same about anyone who just sits there, dodges the wrong moves, or thinks I’m going to do one thing when it’s pretty obvious I’m going to do another.

The way to counter a thief is personal. I don’t know what class you play but every class has a way out (I know because I’ve seen them all use it at one point or another) and, in most cases, a way to make me run for my life (which I will admit is not difficult if I survive the counter-attack).

First thing everyone needs is a stun breaker. If we hit you with Basilisk Venom from the back and you can’t break it, that’s pretty much game for you.

The second thing you need to do is hone your instincts. Don’t just run looking straight ahead. We are fast. We can be on you very quickly and disappear in an instant. Do not expose your back again (which most people do, spinning around with right-click instead of looking around with left-click).

Third, use your trace buster buster to bust our trace buster that’s bustin’ yo trace! It’s mind games out there. We aren’t teleporting all over the place, we are generally running. What this means is we have a path. The majority (possibly myself included) follow a very logical path. Trace that path and you’ve got us (being hit while invisible with a 14k engie bomb of doom comes to mind).

Thief is a very hard class to deal with but so are they all if played properly (freakin’ unkillable necromancers!). The first thing to do is create a thread in your class forum titled “How In The World Do I Take Down A Skilled Thief?” You will get a lot of people raging like they are in this thread but you will also get a few people who know what they are talking about and want to help you. Listen to those people and then try it out in sPvP.

Good luck :-)

Thief is fine the only problem is a few abilitys that cause powerful abilities to do insane damage. (assasin signet 150% damage on next attack) and (quickness, you put out double damage basically)

take away assasin signet and those 15k damage crit backstabs are 10k damage. with no crit it would have been only 4.5k damage.

also other classes have the ability to do extreme damage. most just dont spec or gear for it.

Please appreciate the following facts:

1. Thief burst when using cooldowns is too high by any reasonable metric. Anyone who says otherwise can safely be ignored.

2. Arenanet doesn’t care. Get used to it. 2-3 second kills are common in this game and they arn’t anywhere close to a priority. Thieves and warriors killing you in 2-3 seconds will remain part of the game for several months at least.

3. Stacking toughness and/or vit is not going to save you and is not a great solution. Certain builds on certain classes WILL save you (plague necro is the best example) when your CDs are up.

Basically, either 1) get used to dying in 2-3 seconds, or 2) be one of the gimmicky builds that can easily avoid getting killed in 2-3 seconds, or 3) quit.

@Judas

I play a thief and understand them just fine. There are very few builds and classes that can beat a thief in 1v1. The only 2 things that I fear on my thief are mesmers and another thief. All the rest are canon fodder that I can drop in seconds.

Sorry, but the thief is currently OP for a few reasons: quickness, 150% signet, initiative, and stealth. Stealth is fine when it works like it should but the rendering lag makes it more powerful(too much survivability) than it should be. Quickness flat out needs removed from the game. Initiative is incredibly hard to balance for burst and sustained damage, the initiative traits need removed to make this easier since a complete rework isn’t feasible anymore(should have listened in beta!).

The other huge issue is crit and % crit damage. The amount of both of these you can stack is ludicrous. If they at the very least halved the amounts of this on gear it would help reign in the stupid amounts of burst. I personally feel that it should be a trade off between either power, crit, or % crit damage. You can keep the values the same but just make it so that you can’t get all 3 stats on the same piece of gear. Doing this would really bring the “OP” Builds back into line and other builds like condition damage would be a bit more viable.

What u guys mean that u can pre cast CND???

EXPLAIN PLEASEE!! i wnna know them tricks

Judas: “Thief is a very hard class to deal with but so are they all if played properly (freakin’ unkillable necromancers!). The first thing to do is create a thread in your class forum titled “How In The World Do I Take Down A Skilled Thief?””

I think you’re mixing things. A mesmer is a hard class to deal with in the beginning. But you can learn how to do it, and then fighting a mesmer becomes much easier.

Thief on the other hand is simply overpowered. There’s nothing to learn here. Look at your own advice: “look around yourself”.. as if everyone is constantly supposed to play like a human radar. And as if we can see through walls and cliffs. Any good thief will hide behind obstacle and once you pass instantly Steal+Backstab or something like that. And you’re dead before you can react. WvW isn’t sPvP. WvW battles are long and endless. No one is holding his finger on stun break the entire time, even during standard travel, and with 100% mental focus.

If I see a thief, I have no problem killing him. Again, nothing to learn here. But then there’s another problem I mentioned: stealth, lag, rendering, speed boosts. If he sees I’m stronger he will just perma stealth and that’s it. I can’t catch him.

This is simplified. In practice, other situations happen such as you win 1 on 1 and are at half health and suddenly thief jumps on you from out of nowhere and.. yeah you’re dead in a sec. Fun? Not really. Balanced? In comparison to what?

Again, I don’t really know what Warrior can do or someone else, because I don’t have these issues (in practice) with any other class. Maybe because players who like instakilling play a thief and if it wasnt for a thief they would spike on another class.