3/22 GoM vs NSP vs HoD
Os, you are SUPER annoying.
/respect
Northern Shiverpeaks Night Crew
Os Guild
As for the rest of this thread.
This is weak sauce bros.
I mean there was even another thread, with the same title as this matchup made. Just 30minutes ago.
Thats how bad you are. Its actually burning peoples eyes to join this thread.
You should be ashamed.
Hang your large potato head in shame,
While I pick your girl up in my sweet ride, yea, nissan micra.. hows that make you feel?!
We’ll cruise, at like.. 50mph. To a McDonalds.
And I’ll make her pay because I ‘forgot’ my wallet.
And then I’ll eat her curly fries.
And that’ll make her mad.
Huh.
Cause you ain’t man.
You feel that?!
Thats just my crotch pressing on my screen to touch your screen.
Yeah..
Sort your thread out.
Don’t make me come down there.
Northern Shiverpeaks Night Crew
Os Guild
Robert, didn’t you quit GW2?
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
To be fair rob, the other thread is about the apparent “double team” that GOM experience today because they can’t handle when it actually happens to them once instead of on us or against HOD
Asuran Engineer (Lost)
Robert, didn’t you quit GW2?
He is Irish, the Irish speak Gaelic. Robert is in fact, a Germanic name, which isn’t even the same language base as Gaelic, which is of Celtic base. So with that being said, you should at least understand a little bit, as to why his full name isn’t Robert.
Had some fun times tonight!
I love you so much right now, thank you for putting teviospy and his cronies in place!
Not sure if serious.
Charr Guardian & many alts
I am the donut
Robert, didn’t you quit GW2?
He is Irish, the Irish speak Gaelic. Robert is in fact, a Germanic name, which isn’t even the same language base as Gaelic, which is of Celtic base. So with that being said, you should at least understand a little bit, as to why his full name isn’t Robert.
Roibeard, didn’t you quit GW2?
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
What do u expect lol, im an engineer if i had stealth and clones i wouldnt have to run either >.>
And engy stealth doesnt count >.> 3 sec every 1 minute.
well..i can teach u to run if u want, that seems the one thing you lack
This is so true. I always believe I’m immortal and bam… I’m dead x.x
Also… I prefer teleporting into the wall, at Hills for example. Haha I hate Phase Retreat sometimes >.<Do you find yourself yelling at the monitor, ‘come get some! You can’t kill me, you stupid -edited for tv-’ right before you die? Or does that only happen to me?
I’m super concentrated and serious when I engage someone else ( or a group). But when I put some music, I start singing and I feel like I was immortal. Probably because I’m enjoying more the song than the game ahah.
Anyway. I had a nice afternoon in GoM borderland with XOXO mesmers. Fun fights and all. And <3 to this ASH commander who seems to really really like me :p
Watching people fight you, Obs, and Andro. is hilarious. I’ve learned from the first several encounters that chasing is always a poor decision =p
I’m still trying to decide if it was funny or just plain ole sad. The effort was certainly there, Looking back on it , its just another fun afternoon for us.
(edited by moutzaheadin.4029)
I just want to thank the GoMs in HoD BL catapulting briar tower. After we killed most of you guys, you kept catapulting briar until the wall was down. You guys waved at us and left. Too bad theres no thank you emote because I really wanted to say thank you.
Yes it was fun!
Doom Strykër [Warr] Doom Ryder [Ranger]
Doomku [Guard] Doom Wrack [Mez]
I had a blast playing tag with everyone this afternoon. The back and forth was good fun.
Torwynd Trueheart: Here I come to save the day!
NSP – Quak Resident Duchess L’Orange
Hilarious night tonight, even had to out run a NSP zerg by the HoD keep. I think it was MoB ccommander
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.
Had some fun times tonight!
I love you so much right now, thank you for putting teviospy and his cronies in place!
Not sure if serious.
spca says gom are zergers and are like dog packs, gom dog packs swarm over spca and make video about it proving spca right. People that get wiped by SPCA start high fiving each other
the internet
Thanks to SCPA and assorted NSP for the grueling siege of longview. Undoubtedly you could’ve gotten more done elsewhere, but I think we’re safe to assume you weren’t in it for the points.
Either way, I think we both got something out of it. You guys got a ton of kills, and HoD got a great learning opportunity in defense and siege busting – something we’re working on as a whole.
SPCA greatly enjoys fighting with GT and you’re one of the two guilds we look out for, so glad you got some experience from that ;_;7
(edited by ChesterWing.5321)
Proving them right? Nah.
Having a good fun night? Priceless.
^_^
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.
Proving them right? Nah.
Having a good fun night? Priceless.^_^
ya you probably had fun no one is questioning that, but you did prove SPCA right regardless of what you want to say. We say that all of you except for some notable exceptions zerg and then BM for no reason afterwards and then you put out a video showing you zerg and then BM for no reason afterwards. It would have been completely different if you put in unedited video of equal or almost equal amount of players but you provide this montage instead. Anyone who would just happen upon both arguments would clearly side with SPCA.
I’m sure the SPCA members there (you edited out the fights which I have been told were several minutes long so I’m not exactly sure who was there or how many they had) could have left at any time but they stuck around to fight since we all play to get better not to emote spam or gain pointless internet pride. From my experience with most of GoM, you guys just run away at anything less than equal, you zerg or you leave if you lose. Asian emoticons are cute and all that but they aren’t that good at convincing anyone with any sort of capacity to reason.
(edited by ChesterWing.5321)
Proving them right? Nah.
Having a good fun night? Priceless.^_^
ya you probably had fun no one is questioning that, but you did prove SPCA right regardless of what you want to say. We say that all of you except for some notable exceptions zerg and then BM for no reason afterwards and then you put out a video showing you zerg and then BM for no reason afterwards. It would have been completely different if you put in unedited video of equal or almost equal amount of players but you provide this montage instead. Anyone who would just happen upon both arguments would clearly side with SPCA.
I’m sure the SPCA members there (you edited out the fights which I have been told were several minutes long so I’m not exactly sure who was there or how many they had) could have left at any time but they stuck around to fight since we all play to get better not to emote spam or gain pointless internet pride. From my experience with most of GoM, you guys just run away at anything less than equal, you zerg or you leave if you lose. Asian emoticons are cute and all that but they aren’t that good at convincing anyone with any sort of capacity to reason.
I can’t tell you how many times I was mauled by a DH zerg when we were facing them, to have my body jumped on and my corpse emote spammed. It’s a game, kitten happens, and people deal with it. I think you folks, at least the ones making this argument, need to lighten up and just enjoy the game, regardless of the outcome. Also, to your point about the montage Sororita made, I’ve seen some of your (SPCA member) montages and I wouldn’t call them completely objective. Just saying.
Roamer and Troll
GoM→NSP→AR→NSP→GoM
Posted on Behalf of TFG
Lowlands Keep Siege
1.) Longwalk
2.) First Door
3.) You guys Looked Shocked
4.) Lords Room
5.) Enjoying his prize, Commander Moontrance (Props to Commander X Braveheart, and to all the other people for the help)
(edited by MuddyTear.5703)
Proving them right? Nah.
Having a good fun night? Priceless.^_^
ya you probably had fun no one is questioning that, but you did prove SPCA right regardless of what you want to say. We say that all of you except for some notable exceptions zerg and then BM for no reason afterwards and then you put out a video showing you zerg and then BM for no reason afterwards. It would have been completely different if you put in unedited video of equal or almost equal amount of players but you provide this montage instead. Anyone who would just happen upon both arguments would clearly side with SPCA.
I’m sure the SPCA members there (you edited out the fights which I have been told were several minutes long so I’m not exactly sure who was there or how many they had) could have left at any time but they stuck around to fight since we all play to get better not to emote spam or gain pointless internet pride. From my experience with most of GoM, you guys just run away at anything less than equal, you zerg or you leave if you lose. Asian emoticons are cute and all that but they aren’t that good at convincing anyone with any sort of capacity to reason.
I can’t tell you how many times I was mauled by a DH zerg when we were facing them, to have my body jumped on and my corpse emote spammed. It’s a game, kitten happens, and people deal with it. I think you folks, at least the ones making this argument, need to lighten up and just enjoy the game, regardless of the outcome. Also, to your point about the montage Sororita made, I’ve seen some of your (SPCA member) montages and I wouldn’t call them completely objective. Just saying.
The person who I assume you’re talking about isn’t even representing SPCA in some if not all of the video (I didn’t watch it all since I didn’t understand the point), infact Teivospy rarely does as far as I know. She has her own guilds and is just in SPCA because she asked for guild bounties and she PvP’s with us regularily. I don’t know why you’re bringing her videos up in the first place, I have never seen any footage of her doing anything other than 1v1’s or XvY where Y >>> X and most of the footage is full fights. I’m sure that she has zerged people, but she isn’t so dumb as to think that is good viewing material and we aren’t so childish to think that advertising footage of her zerging people would be anything but embarassing for herself. We as a guild don’t have many videos for ourselves vs GoM because GoM just sits in forts 90% of the time.
I think its funny that it seems like a lot of you are electronically making out over that poorly edited montage while being oblivious to the idea that it just is another example that GoM can only zerg.
In the end, you didn’t address my point at all, although I do think it is impossible to refute so I guess the best you can do is dance around it and try to divert attention. Since it is obvious that you guys are only posting this because Teivospy has upset you I’ll just comment on my views on that:
For all the (even i admit sometimes over the top) ad hominem Teivospy uses, at least she provides arguments and evidence of her skill/ideas/beliefs. That is why I tolerate her, because while she is full of herself she also makes crazy strong builds I don’t think any other thief can imagine. Builds that have been posted on these forums by people who have raged out about them while also saying something to the effect that the build is overpowered and shouldn’t exist instead of being bias towards it. In this gom video its people just full of themselves and they can only put a video about zerging while refusing to admit all the video does is prove the notion that they can zerg and not fight evenly.
I know that there is at least one good guild out there on GOM, they can put out a good respectable fight between the us and them. You guys can’t though and I’m sure that the same guild would say you guys are bad too but I don’t want to put words in their mouth /shrug.
(edited by ChesterWing.5321)
pics 1 – 3.. i happened on teivospy myself and after a quick engagement she started running. always showing vids of winning 2 v 15 gom and stuff like that.. ( i know 1 vid that teivospy posted was edited. based on what she said it seems like she always records so the video is edited. it doesn’t show the 3 other times i believed she and her charr mesmer were killed, only the ending. it doesn’t show where it seemed 2 spca + 1 other nsp thief vs 2 gom and losing, but it only shows video after all that.)
but teivospy couldn’t win 3 v 1.. wouldn’t win 2 v 1 and probably wouldn’t win 1 v 1 ( see what i did there,, i said probably,, im not so high up on myself that i believe im the best and would always win,, so that means i could have lost too..)
the last 2 pics were my party of 5 vs you spca + it looked like 3 or 4 others so it was a pretty even match. most of us alive and all of you dead.
GT is by far a better guild than SPCA.. they are respectful friendly players who dont come on forums posting videos calling people names. ( even though they only seem to say hi after they kill me except for the rare occasion but all in good fun ). from what ive seen of spca is you have an engi 2 or 3 thieves and a mesmer. thats mostly all ive seen and there is nothing special about an OP party like that. you also have to remember that this is wvw and not pvp. pvp happens in wvw, but it doesnt make wvw pvp. there is nothing wrong trying to get 4 v 4 duels in wvw but you have to understand its wvw and anything goes. we should all be having fun enjoying the game in the way we want to and leave the name calling to the children.
Let’s ask tootsie.
…
Still missing the point: You take this WAY too seriously.
Also, why do you hate dogs so much?
Niniyl (Ele) | Barah (Eng) | Luthiyn (War) | Niennya (Thf)
This is
uhm
you know, i’m not sure what the point of this discussion is.
people make videos to show off what they did right & to make them & their friends feel good about a bit of kitten kicking (poor kittens) … not about what they did wrong or when they got their kitten kicked (i do not condone kicking kittens fyi).
unless you’re going to start posting montages of all the times you bugger up and die … i mean, that could be interesting … but probably not.
“Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare!”
the point of my post was the statement of the edited video a gom posted as if spca does not post edited videos. also the name calling that comes with the videos.
Let’s ask tootsie.
The reason i made the video was because “she” was whispering a lot of people on our side during the fights trying to talk smack which was quite frankly lack luster at best, something that provided us many laughs. Judging by those whispers i decided i better make a video for “her,” made it in 2 minutes and it promoted a reaction which i expected, the screen shots i have of 40+ whispers while i was afk prove it. None of this was done because they were a superior player but because they felt the need to try and troll an entire server because 1 person emoted on their body.That being said im sure were all willing to stop this silly feud, we all know what arguments on the internet are. Each side was trolled by the other so theres no need for anyone to apologize nor to get upset about.
GoM is zerging? im not sure what you mean, do you refer to 10-15 as a zerg? If so then i would be glad you arnt facing DH or any of the higher tiers, we on GoM fight the way as individual players want to fight, if that means a bunch of us from different guilds want to hang out and play together then thats what well do. Its like if i were to seriously complain about all the times i get steam rolled by the paxa 5 man when im by myself, why should i force people to play how i want to play?
Concerning not having fair fights, if you’re trying to find a fair fight at NA primetime then it doesnt matter what server you’re on you probably wont find one, the closest fair fights i would say would be GoM [RH], HoD [GT] and HoD [PAXA]. I would suggest going to spvp and tpvp but i understand there are limitations playing that game style. Have you ever tried arranging fights with other small groups by using the forums? Just come on here, post which BL youll be in that night and then you can all fight each other, wouldnt that be easier than complaining about zerging?
Speaking for myself, the last thing i want to do is to go fair fight a thief or a mesmer because quite frankly thats hard lol, engineers tend to have a tough time due to class limitations ( there is a reason why you see so few of us). Just dont make me fight whiterose again…clones, confusion stacks then she stealthed and went back to near full hp >.> what a pain.
In the end we all play this game to have fun, were all having fun over here on GoM, if not for you then that sucks but theres not much we can do. We only troll to counter other trolls. Hopefully we can just get on with it, i cant speak for my server but ill stop corpse jumping until hacker feels the need to…um…“leaf bag” my corpse or try to talk smack again. Either way it doesnt affect me in the slightest.
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.
(edited by Sororita.3465)
uhm
you know, i’m not sure what the point of this discussion is.
people make videos to show off what they did right & to make them & their friends feel good about a bit of kitten kicking (poor kittens) … not about what they did wrong or when they got their kitten kicked (i do not condone kicking kittens fyi).
unless you’re going to start posting montages of all the times you bugger up and die … i mean, that could be interesting … but probably not.
I have alot of footage of that if you so wish to see it lol. The fact is that most videos, no matter who theyre made by, are heavily edited to make it look better than it actually is. In all but 1 of my videos i have full fights with no internal editing was so ever.
And no i dont claim to be good at editing either lol, its not really my thing but after posting just screen shots i was asked by several people to try and start making videos, so i did.
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.
(edited by Sororita.3465)
[ULT] we get it! lol
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.
[ULT] we get it! lol
lol.. so thats what omega was talking about.. i saw it in guild chat but didn’t go look.. i forgot.. wow
Let’s ask tootsie.
Had some fun times tonight!
Where Jovolt almost kills your engie in the middle of 4-5 others.
Only fair fight in this vid, I think.
Jovolt fighting anything less than 3 people is really unfair on their part.
What do u expect lol, im an engineer if i had stealth and clones i wouldnt have to run either >.>
And engy stealth doesnt count >.> 3 sec every 1 minute.
well..i can teach u to run if u want, that seems the one thing you lack
This is so true. I always believe I’m immortal and bam… I’m dead x.x
Also… I prefer teleporting into the wall, at Hills for example. Haha I hate Phase Retreat sometimes >.<Do you find yourself yelling at the monitor, ‘come get some! You can’t kill me, you stupid -edited for tv-’ right before you die? Or does that only happen to me?
I’m super concentrated and serious when I engage someone else ( or a group). But when I put some music, I start singing and I feel like I was immortal. Probably because I’m enjoying more the song than the game ahah.
Anyway. I had a nice afternoon in GoM borderland with XOXO mesmers. Fun fights and all. And <3 to this ASH commander who seems to really really like me :p
Watching people fight you, Obs, and Andro. is hilarious. I’ve learned from the first several encounters that chasing is always a poor decision =p
I’m still trying to decide if it was funny or just plain ole sad. The effort was certainly there, Looking back on it , its just another fun afternoon for us.
I just enjoy coming in and checking the status of NSP BL to hear “Yeah, We are just farming the lot of them, you can go back to HOD, We got it with all 2 of us”
Warms my heart.
Robert, didn’t you quit GW2?
He is Irish, the Irish speak Gaelic. Robert is in fact, a Germanic name, which isn’t even the same language base as Gaelic, which is of Celtic base. So with that being said, you should at least understand a little bit, as to why his full name isn’t Robert.
Roibeard, didn’t you quit GW2?
As-if.
Yes, he is on hiatus for a while, still making the forums happier with his irishy rants of hilarious goodness.
:)
Speaking for myself, the last thing i want to do is to go fair fight a thief or a mesmer because quite frankly thats hard lol, engineers tend to have a tough time due to class limitations ( there is a reason why you see so few of us). Just dont make me fight whiterose again…clones, confusion stacks then she stealthed and went back to near full hp >.> what a pain.
I know it’s not the place for this but I think it could be interesting for you and all the engies out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QYvtwX8v5c
You shouldn’t underestimate your own class. I’ve met really strong engineers. And the one in this video is defeating several times one of our most famous mesmers
Robert, didn’t you quit GW2?
He is Irish, the Irish speak Gaelic. Robert is in fact, a Germanic name, which isn’t even the same language base as Gaelic, which is of Celtic base. So with that being said, you should at least understand a little bit, as to why his full name isn’t Robert.
Gàidhlig ftw
It would have been funnier to see them work it out after a few months.
Although actually I don’t think they would have ever gotten there.
The funny thing is, I think, that they thought that they were being really clever in trying to belittle me.
But every time I was just like ^__^ Dats not even what it stands for.
Beautiful.
And even now, when they say it, it just makes me laugh.
Because I just know that they pronounce it wrong ^__^
Potatoes nowadays.
Northern Shiverpeaks Night Crew
Os Guild
(edited by Rob.7624)
@ mune & pita
i actually wasn’t criticizing the vids. i totally get why they are the way they are. we like to share and show off our success, and tbh you don’t see people going around bragging about their failures. if we did, we’d have far more posts like this:
“omg today i died SOOO many times and didn’t cap a single point. i lolomgwtfbbq suck !!111111elevntyone here’s some vids, see how bad i was? awesome!”
i don’t get why someone’s complaining about your videos chester imtoolazytoscrollup something or other doesn’t seem to get the point of it at all.
“Sentio aliquos togatos contra me conspirare!”
You shouldn’t underestimate your own class. I’ve met really strong engineers. And the one in this video is defeating several times one of our most famous mesmers
O dont get me wrong, i like to think im atleast somewhat above average, a lot of fights i win, some i lose which is a given but when fighting really good thieves and mesmers it gets to a point where i wonder who thought this game was even remotely balanced >.>
o well what you gonna do eh? ;p Ill just have to keep doing what i do but better.
The best test of how good of a player you are i can think of is how good you do against others of your own class. Theres only ever been two ive had a problem with, thats Valar (bunker to the extreme =D) and the one from NSPCA ( i hate 100 nades with a passion lol)
I just realized i mistook you and whiterose >.> i feel bad now, sorry man.
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.
(edited by Sororita.3465)
What do you mean Rob, every Englishman speaks a 2nd language.
WHAT…DO….YOU….MEAN…ROB…/nodding of head….EVERY….ENG-LISH-MAN…SPEAKS..A …SECOND-O..LANGUAGE-O.
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.
What do you mean Rob, every Englishman speaks a 2nd language.
WHAT…DO….YOU….MEAN…ROB…/nodding of head….EVERY….ENG-LISH-MAN…SPEAKS..A …SECOND-O..LANGUAGE-O.
Oh yes I see now.
I suppose you do speak english and the american english.
Thats clearly two languages.
Northern Shiverpeaks Night Crew
Os Guild
(edited by Rob.7624)
Robert, please come back. It makes us sad that you quit right when we transfered.
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
I’m starting to wonder what will happen to this thread if they decide to enforce the “English only” and “no leetspeak” rules.
On a related topic, several of the most annoying forum warriors are MIA this week. If the forum moderators are responsible, they have my thanks.
Niniyl (Ele) | Barah (Eng) | Luthiyn (War) | Niennya (Thf)
This is
What do you mean Rob, every Englishman speaks a 2nd language.
WHAT…DO….YOU….MEAN…ROB…/nodding of head….EVERY….ENG-LISH-MAN…SPEAKS..A …SECOND-O..LANGUAGE-O.
Oh yes I see now.
I suppose you do speak english and the american english.
Thats clearly two languages.
No no no Robert, it’s not “American English” it’s just American.
Robert, please come back. It makes us sad that you quit right when we transfered.
Did you not see my post last week.
I killed you multiple times.
Here I have pix.
Attachments:
Northern Shiverpeaks Night Crew
Os Guild
(edited by Rob.7624)
I’m starting to wonder what will happen to this thread if they decide to enforce the “English only” and “no leetspeak” rules.
On a related topic, several of the most annoying forum warriors are MIA this week. If the forum moderators are responsible, they have my thanks.
Theres a couple here already.
I’ve only stuck my head in a couple times this past 2 weeks.
Don’t see much need other than a, how do you do
Northern Shiverpeaks Night Crew
Os Guild
What do you mean Rob, every Englishman speaks a 2nd language.
WHAT…DO….YOU….MEAN…ROB…/nodding of head….EVERY….ENG-LISH-MAN…SPEAKS..A …SECOND-O..LANGUAGE-O.
Oh yes I see now.
I suppose you do speak english and the american english.
Thats clearly two languages.No no no Robert, it’s not “American English” it’s just American.
’Merican
You stand corrected.
EDIT:
Thread just rebumped.
Who got banned.
If you aren’t even playing this week, can you please spare us this endless meme junk posting.
I going to be blunt here.
No.
Thread needs more colours…
..Rainbow
Northern Shiverpeaks Night Crew
Os Guild
(edited by Rob.7624)
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.
“omg today i died SOOO many times and didn’t cap a single point”
i have posted shots of me dying or dead.. lol.. just ask the good DR from DH.. he will tell you.. and we were spawn camping. but it happens. at least i didn’t get caught by legendary defenders..lol.
its all in good fun and thats what the game is all about.
Let’s ask tootsie.
“omg today i died SOOO many times and didn’t cap a single point”
i have posted shots of me dying or dead.. lol.. just ask the good DR from DH.. he will tell you.. and we were spawn camping. but it happens. at least i didn’t get caught by legendary defenders..lol.
its all in good fun and thats what the game is all about.
THEY JUST KEPT COMING =(
Timelord to Lillium Honeybuns, IoJ
Forever together, or not at all.
“omg today i died SOOO many times and didn’t cap a single point”
i have posted shots of me dying or dead.. lol.. just ask the good DR from DH.. he will tell you.. and we were spawn camping. but it happens. at least i didn’t get caught by legendary defenders..lol.
its all in good fun and thats what the game is all about.
Its all about who can get the best spawn camp
3 different matchups. My 3 best ones.
Always blue spawn.
idk I just really don’t like blue team.
Northern Shiverpeaks Night Crew
Os Guild
(edited by Rob.7624)
idk I just really don’t like blue team.
The truth comes out, now we know why Rob stopped playing.
Niniyl (Ele) | Barah (Eng) | Luthiyn (War) | Niennya (Thf)
This is
idk I just really don’t like blue team.
The truth comes out, now we know why Rob stopped playing.
Northern Shiverpeaks Night Crew
Os Guild
[ULT] we get it! lol
I’m surprised those banners haven’t disapeared yet xD
Roamer and Troll
GoM→NSP→AR→NSP→GoM
If that was rage… I don’t want to know what you think an actual rage is. o_o
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage.