Guild Wars 2

The “under attack” notice at objectives now displays 30 seconds after it is first attacked. Does not affect waypoint usage.

Well, better place guards in all your towers and camps now, it’s become ridiculously easy for the zerg to flip areas and you never know it’s happening. So, designate people to go into WvW and sit there for who knows how long, watching all the gates, …

This was not well thought out.

VOLKON.1290:

The “under attack” notice at objectives now displays 30 seconds after it is first attacked. Does not affect waypoint usage.

Well, better place guards in all your towers and camps now, it’s become ridiculously easy for the zerg to flip areas and you never know it’s happening. So, designate people to go into WvW and sit there for who knows how long, watching all the gates, …

This was not well thought out.

And maybe that is just the whole point?
That people will actually have to work together in order to defend stuff?

lordkrall.7241:

VOLKON.1290:

The “under attack” notice at objectives now displays 30 seconds after it is first attacked. Does not affect waypoint usage.

Well, better place guards in all your towers and camps now, it’s become ridiculously easy for the zerg to flip areas and you never know it’s happening. So, designate people to go into WvW and sit there for who knows how long, watching all the gates, …

This was not well thought out.

And maybe that is just the whole point?
That people will actually have to work together in order to defend stuff?

Um… no. This means people will have to spend their WvW time sitting in a tower instead of actually, you know, having fun. Think about this. To prevent something from getting zerg capped you’ll need at least one per tower, two to three per keep, all doing nothing but sitting there watching. Yeah, nice way to introduce fun to the game. Hell, you even will need to keep someone watching your camps otherwise they’ll flip and you’ll never have an indication it’s under attack.

All hail the almighty zerg.

VOLKON.1290:

Um… no. This means people will have to spend their WvW time sitting in a tower instead of actually, you know, having fun. Think about this. To prevent something from getting zerg capped you’ll need at least one per tower, two to three per keep, all doing nothing but sitting there watching. Yeah, nice way to introduce fun to the game. Hell, you even will need to keep someone watching your camps otherwise they’ll flip and you’ll never have an indication it’s under attack.

All hail the almighty zerg.

Exactly, which means people will have to work together. On our server at least we already have people watching the towers/keeps to make sure a group don’t sneak up on it and take it before the main zerg can react.

Personally I would have loved to not have any notifications at all.

This is clearly for the upper tiers that have coverage. The mid and lower tiers often have down times when the other server(s) can take stuff at will anyway.

We often have 5 or so people roaming defending our camps in T8. With this change it will be literally impossible to get to camps in time. GG.

lordkrall.7241:

VOLKON.1290:

Um… no. This means people will have to spend their WvW time sitting in a tower instead of actually, you know, having fun. Think about this. To prevent something from getting zerg capped you’ll need at least one per tower, two to three per keep, all doing nothing but sitting there watching. Yeah, nice way to introduce fun to the game. Hell, you even will need to keep someone watching your camps otherwise they’ll flip and you’ll never have an indication it’s under attack.

All hail the almighty zerg.

Exactly, which means people will have to work together. On our server at least we already have people watching the towers/keeps to make sure a group don’t sneak up on it and take it before the main zerg can react.

Personally I would have loved to not have any notifications at all.

So, how many of your hours of WvW time are you going to volunteer to sit in a tower? Or is it only ok when other people are tower-sitting for you? That’s what I’m getting at… right now you can respond to a tower reasonably quickly and, depending on the attacking force, even mount a defense. With 30 seconds to the warning that tower may be flipped before you even know it’s being hit. Unless you make someone give up their play time to sit there and baby sit the tower. And the camp. Oh yeah, need at least two or three in the keeps on the gates. Volunteers to sit there all night? Anyone?

Yeah, 30 seconds is too long.

I sure hope the second part of this means that the waypoint will stay open all the time regardless – not just during those first 30 seconds.

Edit. Of course that can’t be right. Then if you die inside, you just port right back to where you were.

VOLKON.1290:

So, how many of your hours of WvW time are you going to volunteer to sit in a tower? Or is it only ok when other people are tower-sitting for you? That’s what I’m getting at… right now you can respond to a tower reasonably quickly and, depending on the attacking force, even mount a defense. With 30 seconds to the warning that tower may be flipped before you even know it’s being hit. Unless you make someone give up their play time to sit there and baby sit the tower. And the camp. Oh yeah, need at least two or three in the keeps on the gates. Volunteers to sit there all night? Anyone?

I personally tend to spend quite some time checking on the towers (it is a rather good idea to actually stay in a tower until it is somewhat upgraded and sieged up).

It is already quite possible to take a tower more or less before the notification turns up, since it don’t turn up until it is actually attacked by a player. Using rams on a gate does NOT trigger it, which means that it is fully possible to breach the gate before the enemy even know the tower is under attack.

I agree that there should be minimum or even no notifications at all.

Instead they should add messaging systems between camps/towers/keeps/castle, that NPCs can use to send pieces of information like warnings, upgrade status, or even supply status through messenger birds.

How cool is that to chase and keel such a bird.

golem rush guilds are gonna love that change

VOLKON.1290:

lordkrall.7241:

VOLKON.1290:

Um… no. This means people will have to spend their WvW time sitting in a tower instead of actually, you know, having fun. Think about this. To prevent something from getting zerg capped you’ll need at least one per tower, two to three per keep, all doing nothing but sitting there watching. Yeah, nice way to introduce fun to the game. Hell, you even will need to keep someone watching your camps otherwise they’ll flip and you’ll never have an indication it’s under attack.

All hail the almighty zerg.

Exactly, which means people will have to work together. On our server at least we already have people watching the towers/keeps to make sure a group don’t sneak up on it and take it before the main zerg can react.

Personally I would have loved to not have any notifications at all.

So, how many of your hours of WvW time are you going to volunteer to sit in a tower? Or is it only ok when other people are tower-sitting for you? That’s what I’m getting at… right now you can respond to a tower reasonably quickly and, depending on the attacking force, even mount a defense. With 30 seconds to the warning that tower may be flipped before you even know it’s being hit. Unless you make someone give up their play time to sit there and baby sit the tower. And the camp. Oh yeah, need at least two or three in the keeps on the gates. Volunteers to sit there all night? Anyone?

The thing is no one should be holding any thing forever if teams can do this 24/7 then there is something wrong. WvW is about points you do not seem to understand this. It should be harder to hold things not near your spawn point the less watched will get cap but its not just for your team the other 2 teams are going to deal with the same thing.

lordkrall.7241:

VOLKON.1290:

So, how many of your hours of WvW time are you going to volunteer to sit in a tower? Or is it only ok when other people are tower-sitting for you? That’s what I’m getting at… right now you can respond to a tower reasonably quickly and, depending on the attacking force, even mount a defense. With 30 seconds to the warning that tower may be flipped before you even know it’s being hit. Unless you make someone give up their play time to sit there and baby sit the tower. And the camp. Oh yeah, need at least two or three in the keeps on the gates. Volunteers to sit there all night? Anyone?

I personally tend to spend quite some time checking on the towers (it is a rather good idea to actually stay in a tower until it is somewhat upgraded and sieged up).

It is already quite possible to take a tower more or less before the notification turns up, since it don’t turn up until it is actually attacked by a player. Using rams on a gate does NOT trigger it, which means that it is fully possible to breach the gate before the enemy even know the tower is under attack.

Actually, any damage to the gate triggers it from what I recall, rams included.

VOLKON.1290:

Actually, any damage to the gate triggers it from what I recall, rams included.

Nope, it doesn’t.

lordkrall.7241:

VOLKON.1290:

Actually, any damage to the gate triggers it from what I recall, rams included.

Nope, it doesn’t.

Pretty sure it does, can you verify that? We’ve peeled the guards off a gate without setting off the “X”, but the moment the ram starts hitting it swords go up.

It would be kind of silly that a thief can hit it with a butter knife and set off the “X” but a flame ram ripping through it can’t.

VOLKON.1290:

Pretty sure it does, can you verify that? We’ve peeled the guards off a gate without setting off the “X”, but the moment the ram starts hitting it swords go up.

It would be kind of silly that a thief can hit it with a butter knife and set off the “X” but a flame ram ripping through it can’t.

And you are absolutely sure no one used an AoE or a auto-attack and hit the gate? I have seen quite a few cases both when our server have breached the gates without x and also situations where the enemy have already been inside when the x turns up.

Who is going to watch a tower or keep with no reward for it? This is more motivation to get a bigger zerg drop more siege, and get through the gates in less than 30 seconds. We are back to karma train tactics.

lordkrall.7241:

VOLKON.1290:

Pretty sure it does, can you verify that? We’ve peeled the guards off a gate without setting off the “X”, but the moment the ram starts hitting it swords go up.

It would be kind of silly that a thief can hit it with a butter knife and set off the “X” but a flame ram ripping through it can’t.

And you are absolutely sure no one used an AoE or a auto-attack and hit the gate? I have seen quite a few cases both when our server have breached the gates without x and also situations where the enemy have already been inside when the x turns up.

Yeah, we’ve done little ninja groups of five trying to sneak in with a single ram to test response times if nothing else. The “X” has always been unavoidable, even with a disciplined guild team.

This only supports golem rushes.

Actually this may be brilliant.

This may be an attempt by Anet to satisfy all those complaints about zerging. Perhaps the zerg will need to break up and be in more places at once?

lordkrall.7241:

VOLKON.1290:

Pretty sure it does, can you verify that? We’ve peeled the guards off a gate without setting off the “X”, but the moment the ram starts hitting it swords go up.

It would be kind of silly that a thief can hit it with a butter knife and set off the “X” but a flame ram ripping through it can’t.

And you are absolutely sure no one used an AoE or a auto-attack and hit the gate? I have seen quite a few cases both when our server have breached the gates without x and also situations where the enemy have already been inside when the x turns up.

You’re wrong here. Hitting guards and no gate does not contest the structure. Doing any damage to a gate or wall triggers it. I know this because I’ve contested lots of keeps by hitting the gate with one AoE or throwing a jar of bees at the wall (back when that worked).

Regarding these changes, it makes scouting useful, but it also makes dealing with golem orgies actually feasible. If someone calls it out when the golems hit a gate you have 30 seconds to get there and man the newly OP arrow carts.

Johje Holan.4607:

Actually this may be brilliant.

This may be an attempt by Anet to satisfy all those complaints about zerging. Perhaps the zerg will need to break up and be in more places at once?

Why? The zerg has all the power now. Numbers have the greatest strength. Towers flip before the “X” goes up unless a defender is spending all his WvW time babysitting it. Sound like fun to you?

This is a terrible, terrible change. Now groups will flip towers before contest even pops up. Zergs will be on your inner before contest pops up.

To everyone saying this is fine, you probably have people scouting for you. As in you AREN’T one of the 5 people babysitting a home BL relying on contests to see movement and report. This change is a NERF to scouting and a BUFF to zerging.

If this change was made to deal with contesting waypoints, then just make players not able to damage gates. Wow! We just nerfed the zerging everyone dislikes, didn’t kick scouting in the face, and dealt with waypoint contests in one move!

zastari.1730:

You’re wrong here. Hitting guards and no gate does not contest the structure. Doing any damage to a gate or wall triggers it. I know this because I’ve contested lots of keeps by hitting the gate with one AoE or throwing a jar of bees at the wall (back when that worked).

Regarding these changes, it makes scouting useful, but it also makes dealing with golem orgies actually feasible. If someone calls it out when the golems hit a gate you have 30 seconds to get there and man the newly OP arrow carts.

I am fully aware that doing actual player damage to the wall/gate does trigger it, but I am quite certain that ONLY hitting it with ram doesn’t.

Personally I would be fine with removing the GPS map altogether. Would make WvW more fun to have less automated intel.

zastari.1730:

lordkrall.7241:

VOLKON.1290:

Pretty sure it does, can you verify that? We’ve peeled the guards off a gate without setting off the “X”, but the moment the ram starts hitting it swords go up.

It would be kind of silly that a thief can hit it with a butter knife and set off the “X” but a flame ram ripping through it can’t.

And you are absolutely sure no one used an AoE or a auto-attack and hit the gate? I have seen quite a few cases both when our server have breached the gates without x and also situations where the enemy have already been inside when the x turns up.

You’re wrong here. Hitting guards and no gate does not contest the structure. Doing any damage to a gate or wall triggers it. I know this because I’ve contested lots of keeps by hitting the gate with one AoE or throwing a jar of bees at the wall (back when that worked).

Regarding these changes, it makes scouting useful, but it also makes dealing with golem orgies actually feasible. If someone calls it out when the golems hit a gate you have 30 seconds to get there and man the newly OP arrow carts.

That 30 seconds is only for places with waypoints. No waypoint up, no advantage. With less notification, good luck getting waypoints up with camps flipping without notice or golem busting in without notice.

No but that zerg that just flipped the one tower got 2 towers and a keep flipped by the opposing non-zerg.

The meta may be forced to change. Zerging may be a distinct disadvantage now.

Lol by the time you see a camp is under attack you have literally like 2 seconds to get there and stop them

Same with a tower. By the time you know it’s under attack the gate is at 50%, so instead of rushing there to defend it, you might as well make a detour to a supplycamp to grab some supply to recap it cause you’re not gonna be able to defend.

Ofcourse just speculation. We’ll see how it turns out in reality, but I wonder why they even considered doing this. I didn’t see anyone complain about how that system currently is setup…. (?) It seemed to be perfectly fine as it was.

Maybe they want to “prevent” zerging by reducing the zergs size by-5 ppl that are now needed to scout. Only “logical” reason I can think of…. But yeah, when there’s already only 10-20 ppl on the map, they can’t afford to all go scout. So it’s kinda contradicting…

- EDIT

Johje Holan.4607:

No but that zerg that just flipped the one tower got 2 towers and a keep flipped by the opposing non-zerg.

The meta may be forced to change. Zerging may be a distinct disadvantage now.

Seems reasonable… we’ll see

lordkrall.7241:

zastari.1730:

You’re wrong here. Hitting guards and no gate does not contest the structure. Doing any damage to a gate or wall triggers it. I know this because I’ve contested lots of keeps by hitting the gate with one AoE or throwing a jar of bees at the wall (back when that worked).

Regarding these changes, it makes scouting useful, but it also makes dealing with golem orgies actually feasible. If someone calls it out when the golems hit a gate you have 30 seconds to get there and man the newly OP arrow carts.

I am fully aware that doing actual player damage to the wall/gate does trigger it, but I am quite certain that ONLY hitting it with ram doesn’t.

Sorry I misunderstood you. That’s interesting and I’m going to have to try it now.

urzen.7096:

Personally I would be fine with removing the GPS map altogether. Would make WvW more fun to have less automated intel.

Do you mean the radar? Come on! Those Azuran engineers had hard time deveploving it.

This does bring up an interesting question…

If a thief runs up and hits a door and runs away, do swords go up 30 seconds later? Will the WP be contested 30 seconds later?

Probably not VOLKON, if we’re lucky.

VOLKON.1290:

This does bring up an interesting question…

If a thief runs up and hits a door and runs away, do swords go up 30 seconds later? Will the WP be contested 30 seconds later?

The better question your avoiding is what about oranges swords? Do they still show up when there are 25+ ppl attking if so this update is a major hit to zergs over all effectiveness. It makes them painfully easy to track and at the same time the non zergs of 5-24 groups able to truly ninja keeps and towers with a 30 sec “free” time if the other teams are not watching for it at all.

This update alone should destroy zergs caping. If you see a zerg coming you can WP ppl in because of a 30 sec “free” time BUT at the same time this zerg coming in will show up as oranges swords and EVERYONE can see it on the map and you have 30 sec to react to it.

Am I missing something or has anyone else missed this small bit of detail:

-The “under attack” notice at objectives now displays 30 seconds after it is first attacked.
Does not affect waypoint usage.

Does this mean that the “under attack” notice no longer contests the waypoint? Or does it mean after 30 seconds the WP becomes contested?

From my reading of it, it sounds like the WP is NEVER contested with the new “under attack” changes.

VOLKON.1290:

This does bring up an interesting question…

If a thief runs up and hits a door and runs away, do swords go up 30 seconds later? Will the WP be contested 30 seconds later?

From what I understand the contested will go up 30 sec later, but the wp’s will be blocked immediatly (?) Kinda confusing but that’s what I make out of it

Jski.6180:

VOLKON.1290:

This does bring up an interesting question…

If a thief runs up and hits a door and runs away, do swords go up 30 seconds later? Will the WP be contested 30 seconds later?

The better question your avoiding is what about oranges swords? Do they still show up when there are 25+ ppl attking if so this update is a major hit to zergs over all effectiveness. It makes them painfully easy to track and at the same time the non zergs of 5-24 groups able to truly ninja keeps and towers with a 30 sec “free” time if the other teams are not watching for it at all.

This update alone should destroy zergs caping. If you see a zerg coming you can WP ppl in because of a 30 sec “free” time BUT at the same time this zerg coming in will show up as oranges swords and EVERYONE can see it on the map and you have 30 sec to react to it.

Not really a smart zerg now will just drop 5 rams on your gate and not attack them selves, it will be 75% dead if not fully dead before you even know they are there unless you have scouts sitting there bored out of their mind 24/7

Ruq.5396:

Am I missing something or has anyone else missed this small bit of detail:

-The “under attack” notice at objectives now displays 30 seconds after it is first attacked.
Does not affect waypoint usage.

Does this mean that the “under attack” notice no longer contests the waypoint? Or does it mean after 30 seconds the WP becomes contested?

From my reading of it, it sounds like the WP is NEVER contested with the new “under attack” changes.

You have a weird way of reading into things i must say. It will become contested after the 30 sec. They would come out and say that WP would never get contested if they where going that way.

McNuggetBandit.8376:

Not really a smart zerg now will just drop 5 rams on your gate and not attack them selves, it will be 75% dead if not fully dead before you even know they are there unless you have scouts sitting there bored out of their mind 24/7

Well that more fault of the other team then the team attking if you miss a zerg coming in your not trying to hold any thing.

Jski.6180:

VOLKON.1290:

This does bring up an interesting question…

If a thief runs up and hits a door and runs away, do swords go up 30 seconds later? Will the WP be contested 30 seconds later?

The better question your avoiding is what about oranges swords? Do they still show up when there are 25+ ppl attking if so this update is a major hit to zergs over all effectiveness. It makes them painfully easy to track and at the same time the non zergs of 5-24 groups able to truly ninja keeps and towers with a 30 sec “free” time if the other teams are not watching for it at all.

This update alone should destroy zergs caping. If you see a zerg coming you can WP ppl in because of a 30 sec “free” time BUT at the same time this zerg coming in will show up as oranges swords and EVERYONE can see it on the map and you have 30 sec to react to it.

That is a good question. 25 hitting Bay could mean instant orange swords and waypointing in to defend while 24 could mean they’re on inner before you know it. Or, a disciplined zerg only hit the outer gate with enough to take it down while the rest wait, then the entire zerg is on inner before you know it. Imagine 5 golems and 50 people standing there watching the gate melt with no swords at all…

VOLKON.1290:

Jski.6180:

VOLKON.1290:

This does bring up an interesting question…

If a thief runs up and hits a door and runs away, do swords go up 30 seconds later? Will the WP be contested 30 seconds later?

The better question your avoiding is what about oranges swords? Do they still show up when there are 25+ ppl attking if so this update is a major hit to zergs over all effectiveness. It makes them painfully easy to track and at the same time the non zergs of 5-24 groups able to truly ninja keeps and towers with a 30 sec “free” time if the other teams are not watching for it at all.

This update alone should destroy zergs caping. If you see a zerg coming you can WP ppl in because of a 30 sec “free” time BUT at the same time this zerg coming in will show up as oranges swords and EVERYONE can see it on the map and you have 30 sec to react to it.

That is a good question. 25 hitting Bay could mean instant orange swords and waypointing in to defend while 24 could mean they’re on inner before you know it. Or, a disciplined zerg only hit the outer gate with enough to take it down while the rest wait, then the entire zerg is on inner before you know it. Imagine 5 golems and 50 people standing there watching the gate melt with no swords at all…

Orange swords do not appear on keeps and towers they appear where the action is going on. Orange swords cant contest WP. (miss read but still a good point to made)

Bad team work is still bad and being out numbered on a ma kitten till being out numbered on a map this is more of world issues and beyond Anet paying ppl to play wvw only 24hr a day there nothing that can fix this in the short run. Now in the long run you should be pushed to fight other worlds who have the same skills are yours.

I wonder about this: zerg of 25+ ppl jumps at the gate, set siege and start facerubbing, will the orange swords pop up after 30s from 1st hit also or will they show right away?

edit: ops, just noticed it was asked above also..

McNuggetBandit.8376:

Not really a smart zerg now will just drop 5 rams on your gate and not attack them selves, it will be 75% dead if not fully dead before you even know they are there unless you have scouts sitting there bored out of their mind 24/7

Well that more fault of the other team then the team attking if you miss a zerg coming in your not trying to hold any thing.[/quote]

The problem is that no you MUST have a person in every tower and 3 people in every keep and about 4 people in SM jsut so you can make sure you have every point covered for those 30seconds. These people get no points or rewards at all for doing this. Let me know when your next gonna go in and spend 8 hours standing there doing nothing for the day?

Not to mention a person in every camp aswell cause even a small 5 man team can wipe a camp in 30seconds so have fun trying to upgrade your towers on reset

Jski.6180:

Ruq.5396:

Am I missing something or has anyone else missed this small bit of detail:

-The “under attack” notice at objectives now displays 30 seconds after it is first attacked.
Does not affect waypoint usage.

Does this mean that the “under attack” notice no longer contests the waypoint? Or does it mean after 30 seconds the WP becomes contested?

From my reading of it, it sounds like the WP is NEVER contested with the new “under attack” changes.

You have a weird way of reading into things i must say. It will become contested after the 30 sec. They would come out and say that WP would never get contested if they where going that way.

Im not the only one reading it this way, thanks for the constructive feedback though, it always helps.

What this will do for eu tier1. VS will, as always, golemrush early in the morning and take everything. Then, as usual, they just sit a bunch of people everywhere and use 1 big blob to go all borderhop where needed.
The other 2 servers seriously lack people to play against this.

These patchnotes just doubled the damage of their favorite weapon, the arrowcart, which they build bloody everywhere.

Now, the other two servers already struggle to fight this (infact, they just cant). And when they cap something they now need to leave behind people to babysit places, or they get golemrushed (another favorite). Meaning even less people to try and wear down the T3 gates/walls with a dozen arrowcarts, while fighting off the blob.

Yah, this is going to be just fantastic… And thanks to borked ratings, we’re stuck in tier1.

So, you all don’t have scouts and rotate people through that job?

Just do 15 minute shifts.

Volkon, I’m thinking this update was more focused on the small teams. This way, they can have 30 more seconds before a zerg might notice what they’re doing…

Stop crying.

Most tiers don’t have the people to support this mechanic. I really wonder at some of the decisions they make. Commence even more musical keep trading and WXP farming.

Vash.9183:

Volkon, I’m thinking this update was more focused on the small teams. This way, they can have 30 more seconds before a zerg might notice what they’re doing…

Stop crying.

Vash, this helps zergs MORE than small groups because zergs will have a higher siege budget and make larger uses of 30 seconds.

Good. Anything that forces a server to split in smaller groups to actually check the map is a nice change. No more relying on a 60-men zerg (oh sorry, I think the correct term is “skill”) to cover the entire map .

Roaming groups, let’s drive them mad!

Luiz Swordbreaker.6547:

Good. Anything that forces a server to split in smaller groups to actually check the map is a nice change. No more relying on a 60-men zerg (oh sorry, I think the correct term is “skill”) to cover the entire map .

Roaming groups, let’s drive them mad!

Thats still not how it will work all you will have now is your one mega zerg and people sitting at every tower or camp. As soon as the enmeny shows up that mega zerg will go there and man the AC’s and wipe you in 5seconds due to the massive damage they do now.

And now those mega zergs can get iside you tower without you even knowing if you don’t have scouts as they can melt a gate in 30seconds. While your roaming group will only be 50% trough the gate when the zerg rocks up and melts you with ACS

Pinko.2076:

Vash.9183:

Volkon, I’m thinking this update was more focused on the small teams. This way, they can have 30 more seconds before a zerg might notice what they’re doing…

Stop crying.

Vash, this helps zergs MORE than small groups because zergs will have a higher siege budget and make larger uses of 30 seconds.

If a zerg is big enough, you’re not going to stop it. Wait- now you can build arrow carts that have an 80% damage buff to shoot down a zerg. These are indeed balanced updates. Having good points and bad points is to be expected with any update.