Guild Wars 2

Vespirisa.1497:

In case people don’t know WM disbanded and what is left is going to EU.

So sorry to hear that, we were really hoping to give em a good fight instead of us being rolled over constantly.

wookie.8934:

Shrouded.6450:

LaMisT.1863:

wookie.8934:

LaMisT.1863:

wookie.8934:

timidobserver.7925:

wookie.8934:

timidobserver.7925:

Devilsmack.5736:

ib4 this thread is closed.

TC actually saying that they won this Tier for their “skills” and not their “numbers” is like saying USA got Japan out of WWII for their better tactics and not because they dropped nuclear bombs on 2 Japanese cities.

TC is a HUGE ZERGBALL that used to blame their losses on the culling, now that that is out of the way they say that when they lose is cuz of the enemy having higher numbers.

Once you guys hit T1, what excuse will you come up with to justify you showing up on your enemies’ screen as loot bags instead of actual competiton?

Keep lying to yourselves TC-ers, you are up for a VERY rude awakening.

I have to be honest. FA has had some very bad tactics in some of the skirmishes that I’ve seen as of late.

That’s because you tend to run away before the battle even begins.

Eh, I am not getting in a flame war with you. I am just saying that I’ve seen some horrible tactics in basic stuff like siege placement, getting flanked, getting portal bombed, keep/tower defense.

The only thing I can really say that FA has done well in the last two weeks is Garrison defense. You guys defend the hell out of your garrison.

That may be the case, but then again this week has been sort of an off week for us.

LaMisT.1863:

Looks like lots of chest thumpers appeared on TC’s side. Lets stop the chest thumping please. Lets not become more obnoxious than we already are.

SMHFTFY.

+1 for effort you guys are the best server in combat ha ha ha

You know it babe. <3

Yes i knew it was an off week like every other one

• They’re also always outmanned
• Always being 2v1
• Always the one with least coverage
• Never recruits
• etc etc etc etc

It’s not easy being the underdog, but FA doesn’t go for easy.

KN will likely take up the underdog position these next few days/weeks though.

Yes, always the underdog.

Lanimal.6541:

You should work on some of those things I posted above or you could pay for my transfer cost and listen to my advise like the word of god and I will fix ya server up and teach you how to win T2.

That’ll be the day. I’d love to trade my skill as a player to have you help us with PPT in WvW for which there is little benefit to reap.

I’m sure plenty of other FA members would agree. Right?

Right…?

I find the lack of respect for each other from either server disturbing. We’re all people playing a game, and a virtual server doesn’t change that. FA this, TC that, it doesn’t matter, the game was made to have fun, and that’s what we should be doing instead of crying about things on here.

BLKNovember.5620:

I find the lack of respect for each other from either server disturbing. We’re all people playing a game, and a virtual server doesn’t change that. FA this, TC that, it doesn’t matter, the game was made to have fun, and that’s what we should be doing instead of crying about things on here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbZEkFLXh9Y

+111111111111111111111111111111111111

I don’t know why all the whining about anybody wanting to play as they want. I care about PPT, you care about your lootbags and your leetist videos. I get my PPT, you get your lootbags and videos. There’s nothing for anyone in either of those. Nothing for those who win a matchup and sit at #1; nor there is any incentive for those who collect all those badges and make those videos. People will forget in a week and move onto the next big thing. I don’t see the reason for so much whining about everything any particular server does.

Sigh… “Our zerg is better than your zerg, we won with less coverage because we’re vastly superior to you, TC FA TC FA TC TC FA FA TC blahblahblahblahblah.”

When will everyone be quiet? If you take a moment to re-read these kind of posts, you should feel embarrassed. Both servers.

on a related note….

There are actually two modes of WvW.

Regular WvW

and

QvQ

Lanimal.6541:

We won this tier with our skill and not our numbers because we won it two weeks ago with inferior coverage to both Kaineng and FA. Yes, some of our key players had to play unhealthy hours (one commander still burnt out) but we did do it. So you can take all this unskilled garbage somewhere else.

The fact has always been that since kitten the IoJ guilds they have had superior coverage to us for AGES until recently (when we got the CD guilds) and yet they were only able to beat us once. There are many reasons for this;

- Your fair-weathers dissapear more easily; you dont do enough things to retain your PVE crowd (because obviously they suck and FA should only consist of awesome 1337 pvpers).

- Your understanding of the overall meta and PPT is god awful. Yes, this is a big part of strategy and skill. So. many. of. your. top. guilds play for such short-term goals not realizing what the consequences are going to be for attacking said targets and said borderlands 3 hours down the line. (Very bad for your oceanic/sea)

- There seems to be more of a inter guild competition on whose got the bigger kitten in FA (Hello BT and VK) than one that focuses on coordination (like TC and KA). Instead of having a meeting a week or emphasizing working together it seems its more ‘on the spot’ coordination. “Hey you guys are on this map!? We are too!?! Lets do this and this” – Like I said very short term.

Of course TC play for the PPT its how WvWvW is meant to be played. We don’t pretend to be a server whose personality is atypical to a 15 year old teenager going through a non-conformist rebellious stunt against their parents (ANET).

You should work on some of those things I posted above or you could pay for my transfer cost and listen to my advise like the word of god and I will fix ya server up and teach you how to win T2.

This is why us veterans of FA harbor so little respect for this incarnation of TC- you’re a server that used to have an admirable outlook- the ever humble TC militias! No large mega guilds fielding mega zergs just regular players banding together to get it done! Now you’ve become this over gorged self gratifying monstrosity. You don’t have anything figured out that FA or Kaineng (or any server above Tier 4) doesn’t know. You’re not out there crushing everything FA or Kaineng attempts due to some grand strategy. You have better coverage- that is not due to a lack of competence on FA or Kaineng’s part. Yet you’re here gloating as if you could provide tutelage to our WvW communities?

Sometime between this past December and now, TC sold it’s soul. Maybe Arena Net made them do it; but it’s done.

i blame culling fix patch

Gturtle.2864:

Lanimal.6541:

We won this tier with our skill and not our numbers because we won it two weeks ago with inferior coverage to both Kaineng and FA. Yes, some of our key players had to play unhealthy hours (one commander still burnt out) but we did do it. So you can take all this unskilled garbage somewhere else.

The fact has always been that since kitten the IoJ guilds they have had superior coverage to us for AGES until recently (when we got the CD guilds) and yet they were only able to beat us once. There are many reasons for this;

- Your fair-weathers dissapear more easily; you dont do enough things to retain your PVE crowd (because obviously they suck and FA should only consist of awesome 1337 pvpers).

- Your understanding of the overall meta and PPT is god awful. Yes, this is a big part of strategy and skill. So. many. of. your. top. guilds play for such short-term goals not realizing what the consequences are going to be for attacking said targets and said borderlands 3 hours down the line. (Very bad for your oceanic/sea)

- There seems to be more of a inter guild competition on whose got the bigger kitten in FA (Hello BT and VK) than one that focuses on coordination (like TC and KA). Instead of having a meeting a week or emphasizing working together it seems its more ‘on the spot’ coordination. “Hey you guys are on this map!? We are too!?! Lets do this and this” – Like I said very short term.

Of course TC play for the PPT its how WvWvW is meant to be played. We don’t pretend to be a server whose personality is atypical to a 15 year old teenager going through a non-conformist rebellious stunt against their parents (ANET).

You should work on some of those things I posted above or you could pay for my transfer cost and listen to my advise like the word of god and I will fix ya server up and teach you how to win T2.

This is why us veterans of FA harbor so little respect for this incarnation of TC- you’re a server that used to have an admirable outlook- the ever humble TC militias! No large mega guilds fielding mega zergs just regular players banding together to get it done! Now you’ve become this over gorged self gratifying monstrosity. You don’t have anything figured out that FA or Kaineng (or any server above Tier 4) doesn’t know. You’re not out there crushing everything FA or Kaineng attempts due to some grand strategy. You have better coverage- that is not due to a lack of competence on FA or Kaineng’s part. Yet you’re here gloating as if you could provide tutelage to our WvW communities?

Sometime between this past December and now, TC sold it’s soul. Maybe Arena Net made them do it; but it’s done.

I have to agree with most of this…Losing respect for TC because of the pretentious attitude of it’s forum warriors. Although the backhand comments from FA make us look bad as well.

But come on, you have to accept that a huge portion of any server’s success in wvw is due to coverage. Trying to insist otherwise makes you look ignorant.

I was real proud of KN today, we had an exploiter trial Mesmer that was hacking into keeps/towers and we all just refused to take his portals and all of us slammed the report button on him. Kudos to you guys.

Gturtle.2864:

Sometime between this past December and now, TC sold it’s soul. Maybe Arena Net made them do it; but it’s done.

I blame the same but productive faction of TC’ers that want to see us go to T1. I don’t know why they do it, but they, like the rest of TC are unrelenting. This is the same ~type~ of person that wants us all on Mumble.

That said, we still have the same philosophy but basic human nature dictates that if there is an easy way to do something in a graceless manner that gets results we all do it.

I am not going to cry to the WvW thread (much) because it serves some people’s version of fun. The idea sticks with the crowd and we go along with it.

All that minor Q_Q aside, I am not scared that TC has sold its soul. It is still there, but it is much harder to see for our opponents because to you we are a faceless Zerg.

Now lets play nice!

Gturtle.2864:

This is why us veterans of FA harbor so little respect for this incarnation of TC- you’re a server that used to have an admirable outlook- the ever humble TC militias! No large mega guilds fielding mega zergs just regular players banding together to get it done! Now you’ve become this over gorged self gratifying monstrosity. You don’t have anything figured out that FA or Kaineng (or any server above Tier 4) doesn’t know. You’re not out there crushing everything FA or Kaineng attempts due to some grand strategy. You have better coverage- that is not due to a lack of competence on FA or Kaineng’s part. Yet you’re here gloating as if you could provide tutelage to our WvW communities?

Sometime between this past December and now, TC sold it’s soul. Maybe Arena Net made them do it; but it’s done.

Yeah our superior coverage allowed us to repeatedly stay ahead of FA and even win T2 one week. It was clearly not our meta-strategy and ability to force 2v1 onto FA during our SEA timezone with vastly inferior numbers. Of course it wasn’t that.. Its not that we had a better grasp of the mentality of guilds on Kaineng and BG because we have been facing them for that much longer therefore having more experience dealing with them. Of course it cant be that.

The fact of the matter is that with the anomaly of one week FA has come behind TC even post its merger with IoJ guilds. You know when a competitive team/player fights against another competitive team/player in an e-sport and can’t seem to beat him/them. They go back to the drawing board and analyze their mistakes, where they are going wrong instead of just throwing their hands up in the air and saying ’bah its excuse X (coverage ) or excuse Y (serverzergballs)".

Really sit down and think about why you were unable to beat us even with a superior oceanic coverage and obviously superior skill (lawl). Think about how the five timezones work together, analyze the three servers their strengths, their weaknesses, their guild tendencies in their stronger timezone (WM was the most influential guild before TC got its transfers). Understand how you can make opposing servers play to your tunes through smart meta manipulation.

- “We should defend our garrison with our hearts out while sitting at 100PPT after we have lost all of our southern map to WM!!!” 5 Hours later – “Great defense guys we managed to save our way-pointed garrison through SEA timezone” : Result: Behind in points by 5-6k because of sitting in 100 PPT. Don’t worry we used to make the same mistake as well but we adapted. I am obviously not going to tell you how we adapted to WM’s stubbornness but we did; the only clue I am going to give you guys is that it required making extremely calculative decisions on sacrificing key objectives by watching the four map macro strategy (treating WvWvW as one giant map and not four individual ones).

Andy.9137

Losing respect for TC because of the pretentious attitude of it’s forum warriors. Although the backhand comments from FA make us look bad as well.

The (albeit subtle) difference is that these FA-people are trashing TC already for months and TC never really replied in the past.

But there comes a point when too much is too much.

For me, that point came when these FAers kept saying that they were better than TC… after TC won against FA 7 times in a row.

When FA looses 7 matches against TC and some FAers keep saying over and over and over AND OVER that FA is better than TC, you can not expect that TC just stays quiet and doesn’t react to these insults.

Sure, you can say ‘be the better person and let them insult you over and over’ and that is what TC did. For weeks and weeks and weeks.

But at a certain moment, too much is too much, even for nice and gentle RPers like TC.

lol, you guys are living in a fantasy world.

Tallis.5607:

Andy.9137

Losing respect for TC because of the pretentious attitude of it’s forum warriors. Although the backhand comments from FA make us look bad as well.

The (albeit subtle) difference is that these FA-people are trashing TC already for months and TC never really replied in the past.

But there comes a point when too much is too much.

For me, that point came when these FAers kept saying that they were better than TC… after TC won against FA 7 times in a row.

When FA looses 7 matches against TC and some FAers keep saying over and over and over AND OVER that FA is better than TC, you can not expect that TC just stays quiet and doesn’t react to these insults.

Sure, you can say ‘be the better person and let them insult you over and over’ and that is what TC did. For weeks and weeks and weeks.

But at a certain moment, too much is too much, even for nice and gentle RPers like TC.

Your view of wvw is extremely narrow minded. Winning and losing in wvw does not come down to the general skill level of that server. Saying “FA lost to TC 7 times therefore TC is better” is wrong. Truth is we will never truly know who is better because there is no chance at ever having a completely balanced week long match where the presence of players in all maps are exactly the same.

That is the truth.

I haveta asked, what happened when you guys had better coverage than us? I myself was surprised on the result.

Lanimal.6541:

mega-snip

Really just curious here though, why do you think FA had superior coverage prior to the remaining CD guilds moving to TC? I mean, Kaineng had the best Oceanic/SEA coverage by far, balancing out that timezone. Nobody except TC has any EU (early morning NA) coverage.

WvWvW = Server vs Server vs Server

…not…

Guild(s) vs Server vs Server

Also…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SQvb2Oy0ph8

Shrouded.6450:

I haveta asked, what happened when you guys had better coverage than us? I myself was surprised on the result.

There’s no way to accurately determine how good a server’s coverage is compared to another. You can’t make comments like this based on your own vague perception of what you think….especially considering how biased you are (based on your post history).

there is no use saying things like this.

Maniac.5163:

Lanimal.6541:

mega-snip

Really just curious here though, why do you think FA had superior coverage prior to the remaining CD guilds moving to TC? I mean, Kaineng had the best Oceanic/SEA coverage by far, balancing out that timezone. Nobody except TC has any EU (early morning NA) coverage.

But you guys still have the better oceanic/sea guilds than TC, you saying it was our EU guilds that made the difference?

Shrouded.6450:

Maniac.5163:

Lanimal.6541:

mega-snip

Really just curious here though, why do you think FA had superior coverage prior to the remaining CD guilds moving to TC? I mean, Kaineng had the best Oceanic/SEA coverage by far, balancing out that timezone. Nobody except TC has any EU (early morning NA) coverage.

But you guys still have the better oceanic/sea guilds than TC, you saying it was our EU guilds that made the difference?

It’s the aliens.

Andy.9137:

Shrouded.6450:

I haveta asked, what happened when you guys had better coverage than us? I myself was surprised on the result.

There’s no way to accurately determine how good a server’s coverage is compared to another. You can’t make comments like this based on your own vague perception of what you think….especially considering how biased you are (based on your post history).

there is no use saying things like this.

That kinda applies on everyone who talks about numbers and coverage dont you think so? Im simply genuinely curious, you guys pretty much took all of IOJ’s off peak crew, and you’re all aware that’s TC’s weakness. You were all primed to take us down. I was expecting you guys to take us down.

Andy.9137:

Tallis.5607:

Andy.9137

Losing respect for TC because of the pretentious attitude of it’s forum warriors. Although the backhand comments from FA make us look bad as well.

The (albeit subtle) difference is that these FA-people are trashing TC already for months and TC never really replied in the past.

But there comes a point when too much is too much.

For me, that point came when these FAers kept saying that they were better than TC… after TC won against FA 7 times in a row.

When FA looses 7 matches against TC and some FAers keep saying over and over and over AND OVER that FA is better than TC, you can not expect that TC just stays quiet and doesn’t react to these insults.

Sure, you can say ‘be the better person and let them insult you over and over’ and that is what TC did. For weeks and weeks and weeks.

But at a certain moment, too much is too much, even for nice and gentle RPers like TC.

Your view of wvw is extremely narrow minded. Winning and losing in wvw does not come down to the general skill level of that server. Saying “FA lost to TC 7 times therefore TC is better” is wrong. Truth is we will never truly know who is better because there is no chance at ever having a completely balanced week long match where the presence of players in all maps are exactly the same.

That is the truth.

I wish arenanet would have released the actual active numbers of players in WvWvW previously. Then I could point at how FA had stronger coverage for weeks and was still unable to beat us. Then I can use the statistics and say clearly we are better than you because we beat you guys with inferior coverage.

But the fact is that’s never going to happen or even if it does it not anytime soon. Until then we just have to look at the numbers and the results, sure you can Q.Q about us having superior coverage or numbers but at the end of the day by the rule-set of WvWvW we are beating you and that is the end result. That end-result makes us better at the game that is WvWvW.

There are many aspects of WvWvW, four map coordination, meta, ppt, open-field fighting, defense etc and you guys can claim as much as you want to be better at one aspect of WvWvW which is open-field fighting through having more people that like to have their kitten enlarged by recording footage and selectively editing it. However being better (debatable) at one aspect of WvWvW does not make you better than us as a server at WvWvW. The sooner you guys realize that the better it will be for both servers (open-field fighting is not the be all and end all of WvWvW).

Maniac.5163:

Lanimal.6541:

mega-snip

Really just curious here though, why do you think FA had superior coverage prior to the remaining CD guilds moving to TC? I mean, Kaineng had the best Oceanic/SEA coverage by far, balancing out that timezone. Nobody except TC has any EU (early morning NA) coverage.

Very tempted to post my bit from the War Council on coverage and meta since it kind of does not apply anymore with the current situation of the tier. Alright get ready to be enlightened (Wall of text coming).

UNDERSTANDING THE 24 HOUR CYCLE

Before we even begin, everyone needs to understand how the cycle works in Tier 2 against FA and Kaineng. I will break it down into five sections.

Early NA – Mostly EST Dominance – FA | Max/Min FA PPT – 300/230 | Max/Min TC PPT – 255/175 | Max/Min KA PPT – 230/150 DURATION – SHORT

In this period FA tends to push hard and tick at low 300’s, high 200’s although if we have waypointed keeps in TCBL we can usually stay competitive and also in the mid to high 200’s. Its the most evenly contested timezone in this tier. This period does not last that long as FA tends to go to bed early right when we seem to amounting forces. Most of the time during early NA we are usually defending TCBL trying to get it upgraded and our 1/3 in EB with some ninja attempts in KABL (as FABL will be well guarded).

Late NA – EST & Pacific Dominance – TC | Max/Min TC PPT – 410/275 | Max/Min FA PPT – 175/70 | Max/Min KA PPT – 210/125 DURATION – LONG

This is one of our best timezones. We as a server have a tendency to play much longer hours than FA does and our NA once it builds up steam is simply stronger than FA and KA. You will see us ticking anywhere from low 300’s to low 400’s during this timeframe, often turning FABL red and doing well in KABL as well. Since we tend to play so late we start overlapping into their oceanic so when their oceanic come on they still have to fight our numbers to regain their borderland back before moving into the offensive, buying us time.

Oceanic Dominance – FA | Max/Min FA PPT – 350/275 | Max/Min TC PPT – 155/50 | Max/Min KA PPT – 175/70 DURATION – SHORT

This is by far the sole reason FA stays competitive with us, their oceanic guilds like AVTR are stellar and understand meta-game unlike most of the FA guilds who are very tunnel-visioned and want to just ‘farm’ / open-field combat. FA can push to high 300’s PPT in this timezone but often they would be in the low 300’s or high 200’s. It all depends on how long it took them to take back their borderland.

SEA Dominance – KA | Max/Min KA PPT – 575/350 | Max/Min TC PPT – 275/50 | Max/Min FA PPT – 175/50 DURATION – LONG

Warmachine Time. When the Korean mega-zerg comes rolling, the FA oceanics quickly start logging off. These guys are meant to be feared because of the sheer numbers they bring. They can cover two borderlands easy as they also utilize Meow and KOR as auxiliary guilds. They easily cross the 400 ppt range and can come close to staying in the 500 ppt for a while. This is the timezone that wins Kaineng the tier and similar to our NA, Warmachine doesnt go to bed early. They play for a while and their dominance is lengthy unless someone wakes up and punches them in the mouth. You will notice that in this timezone our PPT Variance is very high and this timezone will be key to explaining my strategy.

European Dominance – TC | Max/Min TC PPT – 375/235 | Max/Min FA PPT – 255/155 | Max/Min KA PPT – 175/90 DURATION – MEDIUM

This is our untapped timezone. We have a stronger euro-presence than both FA and KA and a good euro timezone can really set us up for a very successful NA EST and Pacific. Similarly European’s depend on us not getting completely smashed during SEA. This chain of off-peak coverage going from oceanic>sea>european will allow us to win the tier. I will explain how the macro will work in the following sections.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

As you notice both us and FA have two time-zones where we are dominant in and Kaineng has one timezone that they are super dominant in. Both of FA’s dominant timezones are SHORT in duration, sometimes medium (Oceanic), whereas we have one medium and one long duration. This means realistically if we take advantage of our European timezone and minimize our losses during Oceanic and SEA using smart macro-tactics we can win this tier.

UNDERSTANDING THE MAIN SERVER & GUILD TENDENCIES in their PRIMARY TIMEZONES

OCEANIC
FA Priorities
1. Keep FABL Blue and attempt to get Hills and Bay upgraded
2. Go on the offense in EB + 1 Borderland (TCBL or KABL) but dont over-commit.
3. Attempt to have a 1/3rd minimum in each map.
FA Guilds
- AVTR
- ZN
- UA
- Pro

AVTR is by far the commanding influence during this timeslot. Their meta-game is smart, they can maximize ppt by splitting up and hitting multiple objectives, they have one major zergball running on one map and a decent zerg running in another. They also hop maps to reinforce each other really well. Pro and ZN members you will find sentrying the FABL, they will respond quickly to camps being contested and even quicker to protecting their yaks. It is easy to manipulate them by tacking an unorthodox path of flipping camps and keeping them red. However, it is difficult to ninja a KEEP or a TOWER during this timeslot in FABL.

SEA
KA Priorities

1. Go on the offense to the point of over-commitment, they don’t leave until they turn the garrison green.
2. Attempt to have the SOUTH on each map (Bay and Hills)
3. Keep hopping between FABL & TCBL and turning them green as well as pushing one section of EB until they can turn it green.
4. They go for easier objectives (wooden vs upgraded).
KA Guilds
- WM
- KOR
- Meow

WM just has insane numbers and they can cover two maps at a time, they hop as a unit (a massive zergball). They have a tendency to not leave sentries in their keeps in KABL and even if they have sentries they do not always respond quickly unless its a waypointed/upgraded keep (which it rarely is other than Garrison). They are very prone to get back-capped on FABL as they have this over-commitment to turn a borderland green. Sometimes they will have meow sentry the south but thats only if FA is not putting up a resistance at Garrison (rarely the case, FA fights for their garrison hard), if FA is putting up a resistance at Garrison then WM would need Meow’s numbers for the fight and supply as well.

Shrouded.6450:

Andy.9137:

Shrouded.6450:

I haveta asked, what happened when you guys had better coverage than us? I myself was surprised on the result.

There’s no way to accurately determine how good a server’s coverage is compared to another. You can’t make comments like this based on your own vague perception of what you think….especially considering how biased you are (based on your post history).

there is no use saying things like this.

That kinda applies on everyone who talks about numbers and coverage dont you think so. Im simply genuinely curious, you guys pretty much took all of IOJ’s off peak crew, and you’re all aware that’s TC’s weakness. You were all primed to take us down. I was expecting you guys to take us down.

People greatly exaggerate the IoJ guild merge. I really would rather not go into that argument again….But just to make a point.

Once upon a time, a long time ago before FA received any guilds from IoJ, TC was leading over FA by 110k points. I doubt even what we received would give us enough power to easily beat TC considering the score before the merge.

But still, I don’t want to repeat myself either, so read my post again and try to understand what I meant by it, because if you did, you wouldn’t have just said what you did.

What should TC do during Oceanic?

Oceanic is fairly straightforward. We need to defend. FA doesn’t have the numbers or the sheer brute strength to run rampant through our holdings. They won’t take a way-pointed Garrison or Overlook unless we make mistakes in defense. If they come up against stern defense on our borderland they will hop maps to KABL and go for easy points there. They want to maximize their PPT, they are not stubborn or tunnelvisioned like their NA counterparts. They will go for the easy points.

1. Hills Keep upgraded and Sieged

As our NA is dying down, if we had a good NA like we typically do we need to prioritize upgrading and sieging up Hills Keep on TCBL before we all go to bed. This keep needs to be upgraded for us to minimize / maximize PPT during Oceanic. Hills Keep is the toughest keep to break in the borderlands if defended properly. Also understand that during this period we don’t have enough people to spare so wasting tonnes of siege on the outer gates and walls of the keeps is a waste, we wont have enough people to man them to stop them in their tracks. The siege maximization needs to be done in the inner keep (so that its easier to keep ticked).

If we break them here we will send them to KABL. If we don’t break them here we can slow them down long enough for them to not be able to genuinely siege and take our Garrison / northern two towers. Its fine if we lose bay. Don’t commit forces to Bay (send 3-4 people to man mortars max to delay them). If Bay flips they have to worry about Kaineng being opportunistic and backcapping a wooden bay making them further leave their offence on the north part of the map.

1. Hold The North
   This ones obvious and there have been very few days outside of reset where I have seen Garrison been blue. We can’t let them flip our upgraded garrison and our northern towers. They need to have the minimum amount of siege and smart sentries on them. I am not going to give examples of siege placement on Northern Towers and Garrison. If by now you as a commander don’t know this reach out the many commanders who do. TCBL is typically 1/2 a map, our north for 16/24 hours anyway. Its what we have become accustomed to for so many weeks in Tier 2 and people should know how to hold it against all kinds of assaults that FA can throw at us (Kaineng and BG are different beasts altogether).

1. Backcap KABL

What do I mean by back-capping? Back-capping means instead of banging your head against an upgraded tower or keep you let the dominant server (in this case FA) to take all of the south on the third servers map (in this case Kaineng) and then go ninja wooden keeps and towers. Back-capping needs to be fast, stealthy and based on timing. You get stealth by flipping the weather nodes, make sure you flip the weather nodes before moving for any Keep. Go for Keep before you go for a tower. Use Golems or Superior Rams/Catapults. Utilize the +5 buff to maximum the supply you can carry. Make sure that you see orange swords at a northern tower or Garrison before you make your move, if you make your move too early there is a good chance you will get hit by their zerg while they are resupplying etc. You can typically take our 1/3rd which is Hill Keep + South Camp + SE Camp. You can also try for the NE tower if FA has flipped it. Don’t bother going for Briar or Bay though as FA is most likely going to respond and shut those attempts out.

1. Flip Camps and Two Southern Towers in FABL

This is difficult to do but a skilled 3-5 man party with unorthodox paths can flip all the camps in FABL. Do not attempt to take keeps in FABL during oceanic timeslot, they are the dominant server and they prioritize defense and upgrading, they will make life very difficult for you. In the end it will be a waste of time and resources that can be best used elsewhere. However, its possible with Ninja Catapults to take both Briar and Lake, use superior catapults along with guild catapults to maximize supply. One of the things to do to flip these towers would be to not flip a southern camp, take supply from TCBL or KABL (less defended) and then run supply to the spawn tower to setup the catapults. Make sure to flip the three weather nodes and/or send a thief to contest northern towers / garrison and Bay OR Hills keep. Many white-swords they will likely prioritize those whilst you take the tower.

What should TC do during SEA?

This is where the really complex macro-meta strategy comes into play. This is the timezone which will make or break us. This is the timezone where we are set to lose out the most amount of points and ppt if played incorrectly or we are in the spot to capitalize and manipulate WM’s tendencies.

1. Defend Hills Keep

If you defend Hills Keep while making sure that our Garrison or Northern towers don’t get ninja-ed (by Golems or Superior Rams) then we can direct them towards FABL. The thing about WM is they are very very stubborn, they will repeatedly bash their heads against an upgraded keep until they deplete our supply and they will continue to do it until they capture it eventually. We can’t expect to keep it unless we wipe them once or twice. Just killing their siege does not make them hop maps. You have to wipe them and that’s tough to do with the numbers we have. They will eventually take it but it will eat a lot into their time.

1. Lose the north

WHAT!? Not defend the north!? Hand it them on a platter !?! Exactly, correct. This is a difficult decision but once WM has the south (Bay to Hills) we are terribly behind in PPT to both Kaineng and FA. We can sit there and defend our little hearts out and we could possibly hold Garrison and maybe ONE of the northern towers (NE) but we would be ticking at 70-125 PPT for hours on end while WM and their stubbornness to turn the map green would continue until they turn it green. We need to give up the north. We need to use the Garrison supply to build golems up and port them to Citadel and then just hand it to them on a platter. Do a ‘pretend defence’ of garrison so that its not too obvious but really just die and let them take it. To speed it up the commander needs to lead the group of TCBL for the slaughter. Just try to attack the WM zerg in the face and get wiped. They will get confident and just start ramming/goleming Garrison instead of taking hours trebbing fortified walls.

1. Golem Retake of TCBL

Don’t focus on upgrading, don’t focus on sieging the northern towers or garrison. At this point of time its all about flipping objectives for maximizing ppt. Our paper towers and keeps won’t last against WM’s zerg no matter how much siege we have. So we just need to move swiftly and quickly to retake TCBL. Golem take Garrison, then split up and go for the two keeps (Hills and Bay). Make sure to grab FA’s spawn side tower (LAKE) and then come back and grab the two northern towers. Instead of defending and ticking at 70-125 PPT for hours we are now ticking in the 175-225 range.

1. Keeping WM hopping between FABL and KABL

Now we need to make sure they don’t bring their megazerg back to TCBL. We can’t do that by just sitting in TCBL, upgrading and praying to the golem god. If we do that they will come back and this time they will turn it green even quicker (cause all our things are wooden). We have to go after them or rather behind them. We let them turn FABL’s keeps wooden (until then just cap camps and nodes in KABL and upgrade TCBL). Once WM moves north and gets northern tower and/or has orange swords in Garrison. You want to send minimum 5 to maximum 10 people to ninja backcap our 1/3rd in FABL i.e. Bay Keep + SW Camp + Briar Tower.

As soon as you do that you need to go to KABL and golem cap our 1/3rd in KABL. You can also push your luck here. You can push further south and cap BRIAR and further north and cap NE tower along with Hills+Lake+SE+NE camps. If Bay is unupgraded (no waypoint) you can also golem take that. This way WM due to their obsession of turning maps green will stay in FABL longer because they have to turn the red bay green and this might give FA some breathing room to hold onto or retake their garrison which will make WM go back to take FA’s garrison etc.

Lanimal.6541:

Andy.9137:

Tallis.5607:

Andy.9137

Losing respect for TC because of the pretentious attitude of it’s forum warriors. Although the backhand comments from FA make us look bad as well.

The (albeit subtle) difference is that these FA-people are trashing TC already for months and TC never really replied in the past.

But there comes a point when too much is too much.

For me, that point came when these FAers kept saying that they were better than TC… after TC won against FA 7 times in a row.

When FA looses 7 matches against TC and some FAers keep saying over and over and over AND OVER that FA is better than TC, you can not expect that TC just stays quiet and doesn’t react to these insults.

Sure, you can say ‘be the better person and let them insult you over and over’ and that is what TC did. For weeks and weeks and weeks.

But at a certain moment, too much is too much, even for nice and gentle RPers like TC.

Your view of wvw is extremely narrow minded. Winning and losing in wvw does not come down to the general skill level of that server. Saying “FA lost to TC 7 times therefore TC is better” is wrong. Truth is we will never truly know who is better because there is no chance at ever having a completely balanced week long match where the presence of players in all maps are exactly the same.

That is the truth.

I wish arenanet would have released the actual active numbers of players in WvWvW previously. Then I could point at how FA had stronger coverage for weeks and was still unable to beat us. Then I can use the statistics and say clearly we are better than you because we beat you guys with inferior coverage.

But the fact is that’s never going to happen or even if it does it not anytime soon. Until then we just have to look at the numbers and the results, sure you can Q.Q about us having superior coverage or numbers but at the end of the day by the rule-set of WvWvW we are beating you and that is the end result. That end-result makes us better at the game that is WvWvW.

There are many aspects of WvWvW, four map coordination, meta, ppt, open-field fighting, defense etc and you guys can claim as much as you want to be better at one aspect of WvWvW which is open-field fighting through having more people that like to have their kitten enlarged by recording footage and selectively editing it. However being better (debatable) at one aspect of WvWvW does not make you better than us as a server at WvWvW. The sooner you guys realize that the better it will be for both servers (open-field fighting is not the be all and end all of WvWvW).

We don’t have stats on actual WvW participation, but we do have stats on total server population and TC has always been top 3 in total population (at least since TC and FA met in T3). That means TC has always had a larger pot to draw from when it comes to getting people in WvW. That is where the numbers argument comes from. Argue it or not, we know that is a fact.

Nobody has ever said open-field fighting is the be all and end all of WvW. That is the part most of us enjoy, so that is the part we will focus on most. Sorry if you can’t grasp that notion.

Andy.9137:

Shrouded.6450:

Andy.9137:

Shrouded.6450:

I haveta asked, what happened when you guys had better coverage than us? I myself was surprised on the result.

There’s no way to accurately determine how good a server’s coverage is compared to another. You can’t make comments like this based on your own vague perception of what you think….especially considering how biased you are (based on your post history).

there is no use saying things like this.

That kinda applies on everyone who talks about numbers and coverage dont you think so. Im simply genuinely curious, you guys pretty much took all of IOJ’s off peak crew, and you’re all aware that’s TC’s weakness. You were all primed to take us down. I was expecting you guys to take us down.

People greatly exaggerate the IoJ guild merge. I really would rather not go into that argument again….But just to make a point.

Once upon a time, a long time ago before FA received any guilds from IoJ, TC was leading over FA by 110k points. I doubt even what we received would give us enough power to easily beat TC considering the score before the merge.

But still, I don’t want to repeat myself either, so read my post again and try to understand what I meant by it, because if you did, you wouldn’t have just said what you did.

You’re kinda focusing on a moot point though, you’re insinuating that people are biased in this thread. You can’t possibly assume that you’re an exception here with all these claims that you guys are still outnumbered and outmanned on pretty much every situation that you went up against TC.

I don’t really understand the massive text theon is posting. It doesn’t prove anything, it looks like your own perception of wvw over a 24 hour period.

it’s meaningless.

It’s always the other guy who throws the first stone.

But with each new thread EVERYONE of us can choose NOT to start flinging poop.

Theongreyjoy, please stop posting that dribble… it makes it look like TC actually uses strategy… that we try to win…

… we’re a mindless zerg. Follow a blue dot and press 1…. that’s what we do. Not this stuff that involves thinking.

Please take it down, it’s hurting my brain.

Andy.9137:

I don’t really understand the massive text theon is posting. It doesn’t prove anything, it looks like your own perception of wvw over a 24 hour period.

it’s meaningless.

At minimum it shows the effort he’s put in.

And if the score were any reflection of his work.

Then he’s been successful.

This is fascinating. My favourite bit is where it seems to the enemy like AVTR has more than 10 at any given time on the field.

“As you notice both us and FA have two time-zones where we are dominant in and Kaineng has one timezone that they are super dominant in. Both of FA’s dominant timezones are SHORT in duration, sometimes medium (Oceanic), whereas we have one medium and one long duration. This means realistically if we take advantage of our European timezone and minimize our losses during Oceanic and SEA using smart macro-tactics we can win this tier.”

Isn’t this what I was talking about? More coverage = more players available over the 24 hour stretch.. am I missing something here?

Shrouded.6450:

Andy.9137:

Shrouded.6450:

Andy.9137:

Shrouded.6450:

I haveta asked, what happened when you guys had better coverage than us? I myself was surprised on the result.

There’s no way to accurately determine how good a server’s coverage is compared to another. You can’t make comments like this based on your own vague perception of what you think….especially considering how biased you are (based on your post history).

there is no use saying things like this.

That kinda applies on everyone who talks about numbers and coverage dont you think so. Im simply genuinely curious, you guys pretty much took all of IOJ’s off peak crew, and you’re all aware that’s TC’s weakness. You were all primed to take us down. I was expecting you guys to take us down.

People greatly exaggerate the IoJ guild merge. I really would rather not go into that argument again….But just to make a point.

Once upon a time, a long time ago before FA received any guilds from IoJ, TC was leading over FA by 110k points. I doubt even what we received would give us enough power to easily beat TC considering the score before the merge.

But still, I don’t want to repeat myself either, so read my post again and try to understand what I meant by it, because if you did, you wouldn’t have just said what you did.

You’re kinda focusing on a moot point though, you’re insinuating that people are biased in this thread. You can’t possibly assume that you’re an exception here with all these claims that you guys are still outnumbered and outmanned on pretty much every situation that you went up against TC.

I’m no exception to bias, but considering my point…it does not apply. I said there is no way to truly know what goes on in wvw because we have no data to look at on it.

Alodar.5794:

Theongreyjoy, please stop posting that dribble… it makes it look like TC actually uses strategy… that we try to win…

… we’re a mindless zerg. Follow a blue dot and press 1…. that’s what we do. Not this stuff that involves thinking.

Please take it down, it’s hurting my brain.

Very much this!

And something hockey something something… ok that’s irrelevant. I’ll stop at that.

Maniac.5163:

This is fascinating. My favourite bit is where it seems to the enemy like AVTR has more than 10 at any given time on the field.

“As you notice both us and FA have two time-zones where we are dominant in and Kaineng has one timezone that they are super dominant in. Both of FA’s dominant timezones are SHORT in duration, sometimes medium (Oceanic), whereas we have one medium and one long duration. This means realistically if we take advantage of our European timezone and minimize our losses during Oceanic and SEA using smart macro-tactics we can win this tier.”

Isn’t this what I was talking about? More coverage = more players available over the 24 hour stretch.. am I missing something here?

Your fallacy lies in the fact that you are assuming coverage is calculated in a 1v1 between FA and TC thats not the case, Kaineng is/was very much in the picture as well and our European can be completely a non-factor if WM is allowed to focus TC down during their SEA and late into our European thus negating our second semi-dominant timezone completely. What I am saying is that FA had all the coverage they needed to win T2 as well if they followed an overall meta strategy like we did.

Commanders like Jadon, Odinzu, Nightlight, Rhyme and many others worked with me in implementing this strategy which allowed us to win T2 that one week with inferior coverage.

We don’t have stats on actual WvWvW population during all timezones yet certain people are able to conclude that FA had superior numbers. Go get ’em!

Only time TC lose a fight is facing a 80 men zerg, mad skill bro.

Andy.9137:

Shrouded.6450:

Andy.9137:

Shrouded.6450:

Andy.9137:

Shrouded.6450:

I haveta asked, what happened when you guys had better coverage than us? I myself was surprised on the result.

There’s no way to accurately determine how good a server’s coverage is compared to another. You can’t make comments like this based on your own vague perception of what you think….especially considering how biased you are (based on your post history).

there is no use saying things like this.

That kinda applies on everyone who talks about numbers and coverage dont you think so. Im simply genuinely curious, you guys pretty much took all of IOJ’s off peak crew, and you’re all aware that’s TC’s weakness. You were all primed to take us down. I was expecting you guys to take us down.

People greatly exaggerate the IoJ guild merge. I really would rather not go into that argument again….But just to make a point.

Once upon a time, a long time ago before FA received any guilds from IoJ, TC was leading over FA by 110k points. I doubt even what we received would give us enough power to easily beat TC considering the score before the merge.

But still, I don’t want to repeat myself either, so read my post again and try to understand what I meant by it, because if you did, you wouldn’t have just said what you did.

You’re kinda focusing on a moot point though, you’re insinuating that people are biased in this thread. You can’t possibly assume that you’re an exception here with all these claims that you guys are still outnumbered and outmanned on pretty much every situation that you went up against TC.

I’m no exception to bias, but considering my point…it does not apply. I said there is no way to truly know what goes on in wvw because we have no data to look at on it.

That one I needed to make sure, hence why I think it’s a moot point between us. I do believe there’s sufficient data due to the fact that you guys have an oceanic presence back then while most of TC struggles trying to pull an all niter that week. If thats not enuff then thats fine with me..

Lanimal.6541:

Maniac.5163:

This is fascinating. My favourite bit is where it seems to the enemy like AVTR has more than 10 at any given time on the field.

“As you notice both us and FA have two time-zones where we are dominant in and Kaineng has one timezone that they are super dominant in. Both of FA’s dominant timezones are SHORT in duration, sometimes medium (Oceanic), whereas we have one medium and one long duration. This means realistically if we take advantage of our European timezone and minimize our losses during Oceanic and SEA using smart macro-tactics we can win this tier.”

Isn’t this what I was talking about? More coverage = more players available over the 24 hour stretch.. am I missing something here?

Your fallacy lies in the fact that you are assuming coverage is calculated in a 1v1 between FA and TC thats not the case, Kaineng is/was very much in the picture as well and our European can be completely a non-factor if WM is allowed to focus TC down during their SEA and late into our European thus negating our second semi-dominant timezone completely. What I am saying is that FA had all the coverage they needed to win T2 as well if they followed an overall meta strategy like we did.

Commanders like Jadon, Odinzu, Nightlight, Rhyme and many others worked with me in implementing this strategy which allowed us to win T2 that one week with inferior coverage.

I think what he is saying is that when you add a ton of players in one time zone, it boosts other time zone coverage as well since many people play during multiple time zone primetimes. Thus, TC adds a ton of Oceanic/SEA leads to boosts during NA (west coast) and EU, giving them a bigger advantage.

Also, no one is mad on FA that we aren’t winning, not sure where you got that idea. We like the fights in T2 and want to stay here in T2. Many actually prefer not coming in first because it keeps us from having ques.

Lanimal.6541:

Maniac.5163:

This is fascinating. My favourite bit is where it seems to the enemy like AVTR has more than 10 at any given time on the field.

“As you notice both us and FA have two time-zones where we are dominant in and Kaineng has one timezone that they are super dominant in. Both of FA’s dominant timezones are SHORT in duration, sometimes medium (Oceanic), whereas we have one medium and one long duration. This means realistically if we take advantage of our European timezone and minimize our losses during Oceanic and SEA using smart macro-tactics we can win this tier.”

Isn’t this what I was talking about? More coverage = more players available over the 24 hour stretch.. am I missing something here?

Your fallacy lies in the fact that you are assuming coverage is calculated in a 1v1 between FA and TC thats not the case, Kaineng is/was very much in the picture as well and our European can be completely a non-factor if WM is allowed to focus TC down during their SEA and late into our European thus negating our second semi-dominant timezone completely. What I am saying is that FA had all the coverage they needed to win T2 as well if they followed an overall meta strategy like we did.

Commanders like Jadon, Odinzu, Nightlight, Rhyme and many others worked with me in implementing this strategy which allowed us to win T2 that one week with inferior coverage.

I think the part where we disagree is where you think you had inferior coverage.
Also; SEA is 8 hours ahead of EU.. SEA is 1.5-2 hours behind Oceanic. Food for thought about timezone overlap?

Maniac.5163:

Food for thought about timezone overlap?

Exactly. Our NA-Pacific would purposely play longer shifts on certain days (Tuesdays) to overlap into your oceanic not allowing you guys to setup as efficiently to deal with WM. Similarly, you guys could have done more to redirect WM to TCBL during Oceanic and keep them there. Which means for 8 hours we are suffering PPT wise allowing FA to build a gap over us and leaving our European timeslot with a lot of ground to make up which we are unable to without at least some way-pointed keeps.

The fact that there is such a large gap between TC’s two dominant timezones (NA Pacific and European) meant that for if FA played a smart meta back then we would have no chance in hell to come anything other than third during those weeks.

In case you guys haven’t figured it out yet…

This Strat was developed and implemented before we received a single Transfer.

It even shows ZN as part of FA in the plan.

While Coverage is a factor in WvW it isn’t the only one.

A “game plan” can be very effective. Far more effective than some on FA seem to want to accept.

We have also helped FA tremendously with our transfers, they now have more fights to pursue in the open field.

So we did ourselves and FA a huge favor.

Ketharius.9018:

We have also helped FA tremendously with our transfers, they now have more fights to pursue in the open field.

So we did ourselves and FA a huge favor.

And more lootbags, you know, with us all going 11111611111611111…

P.S: I have my auto-attack on so I don’t even have to press 1. I just use 6 and the button 6 on my Razer Naga is almost dead, I’m soon gonna switch back to keyboarding.