Guild Wars 2

Moving our 5 man as a last effort not to quit the game. Name some places where small mans fight small mans daily. We understand the 80 mans are around, dont care well avoid them. We dont want to zerg bust, we want other small mans to legit fight. Ones that dont add to 10 when they lose? Do those exist? Please advise.

You might consider JQ, my own small man team has grown frustrated with WvW in general but BG has a quite a few (good) havoc squads to fight.

try any server which reguaraly fights t3-t6 etc don’t go t1 it’s horrible or even t2 too many zergs.

If you want fight the bads of NA, i suggest the really high tier servers, such as ET.

From the 12 servers I have played on, the best small man groups play on Eredon Terrace and Fergusons crossing. There are bad groups on every server, but those two have some of the strongest small man havoc guilds I have played against. Ive played with and against most server tiers.

But if you haven’t already, I suggest you try sPvP. WvW is in a bad place right now and I doubt it is going to change. It seems WvW is only designed to cater for casuals and Anet seems intent on keeping it that way.

I think you will find JQ a really good place.

I would suggest EU servers. I do solo roaming every day in WvWvW, but also roaming in a group of 2-3 players. We are able to wipe 2-5 man enemy teams despite having smaller numbers, capture fully upgraded and guarded camps (extra guards, several siege weapons plus enemy invaders sitting on them), do the NPC objectives. It is a lot of fun and you can avoid most of the huge enemy zergs and blobs.

I play on Desolation. We are every week pitted against the top EU servers. In fact there has been only few weeks in year 2013, when we didn’t need to fight against Visunah (EU rank 1). If you are afraid of fighting against zombies, don’t come to our server.

So couple people have said jq but then I hear top 2 tiers are horrible. I just would like to position our guild in a place where we can log on, run a BL and find a 5 man or two that wants to whoop our kitten and doesn’t multiply when they lose or try and Zerg bust. Any ideas?

I’ve also heard eu servers bring more open field fighting, any good ones that run prime time NA? Sorry but I can’t play at 1pm cause of work.

I am not sure there is a “good” place for skirmish groups. I spent a considerable amount of time on DB and CD when they were T3 and T4 but both are pretty zerg heavy. We also fought during NA Prime on two servers who had great overnight presence but lacked strong play during our time at least when we were on them. The only time we fought a T2 server it was wall to wall zerg.

BP fighting has been pretty decent. This week has been zerg heavy but we are fighting two T4 servers. Even here though we often flip all the camps in a BL map and never find a decent fight.

I can say BP is a welcoming place and as long as you avoid EB is mostly fun. If you are going to head into higher brackets, I would suggest EBay. They have several skill groups and they frequently setup duels.

Straegen.2938:

I am not sure there is a “good” place for skirmish groups. I spent a considerable amount of time on DB and CD when they were T3 and T4 but both are pretty zerg heavy. We also fought during NA Prime on two servers who had great overnight presence but lacked strong play during our time at least when we were on them. The only time we fought a T2 server it was wall to wall zerg.

BP fighting has been pretty decent. This week has been zerg heavy but we are fighting two T4 servers. Even here though we often flip all the camps in a BL map and never find a decent fight.

I can say BP is a welcoming place and as long as you avoid EB is mostly fun. If you are going to head into higher brackets, I would suggest EBay. They have several skill groups and they frequently setup duels.

For us its not finding a server with good small mans….it’s finding a tier that server is in to fight those small mans. We arent interested in teammates in the most non-selfish way, we simply want fights that use more than half our brain.

If you’re actually willing to be a five man havoc squad of death and destruction and… well… havok, JQ would definitely be a nice fit for you.

VOLKON.1290:

If you’re actually willing to be a five man havoc squad of death and destruction and… well… havok, JQ would definitely be a nice fit for you.

We have ZERO interest in the pve side of “havoc” teams……taking camps is about as cool as cancer. We want to FIGHT other small man teams. That’s what im talking about.

Jscull.2514:

For us its not finding a server with good small mans….it’s finding a tier that server is in to fight those small mans. We arent interested in teammates in the most non-selfish way, we simply want fights that use more than half our brain.

My point is you want to be on a server that actively organizes 5v5, 10v10, etc on a regular basis if your focus is on skill fights. Without that support network, you are going to be mostly dealing with zergV5 or PUGv5 fights because that is 99% of WvW.

On BP we routinely find decent fights but it is usually 10 Pugs versus 5 of us. Occasionally we run into skill groups like pockets of EBay GF/GH/Char or vT (they moved recently). Seems the bulk of the good 5 mans we have run into have been around T5. When we were higher, we mostly saw zergs and not a lot of skirmish.

Jscull.2514:

Moving our 5 man as a last effort not to quit the game. Name some places where small mans fight small mans daily. We understand the 80 mans are around, dont care well avoid them. We dont want to zerg bust, we want other small mans to legit fight. Ones that dont add to 10 when they lose? Do those exist? Please advise.

Your inbox is full.
Also, you might be aware of this website, but you can set up fights here (and it ranks you): gw2gvg.com.

Jscull.2514:

For us its not finding a server with good small mans….it’s finding a tier that server is in to fight those small mans. We arent interested in teammates in the most non-selfish way, we simply want fights that use more than half our brain.

I see quite a few enemy small groups (2-8) while wandering around in WvW for ET. Because we’re small (and because our opponents can be small) small groups are a viable way to roam the map and can largely avoid zergs, as I’ve seen your guild do against us.

So is there a reason why an ET, FC, or other smaller population server that regularly faces at least one of us wouldn’t improve your situation? Or do we just not have enough people in general for you?

Berk.8561:

Jscull.2514:

For us its not finding a server with good small mans….it’s finding a tier that server is in to fight those small mans. We arent interested in teammates in the most non-selfish way, we simply want fights that use more than half our brain.

I see quite a few enemy small groups (2-8) while wandering around in WvW for ET. Because we’re small (and because our opponents can be small) small groups are a viable way to roam the map and can largely avoid zergs, as I’ve seen your guild do against us.

So is there a reason why an ET, FC, or other smaller population server that regularly faces at least one of us wouldn’t improve your situation? Or do we just not have enough people in general for you?

Basically ET and FC consist of two guilds for us to fight, and a chance at that. BS on ET and Invi on FC. We know some of those guys, BS usually runs more than 5, and are good enough to where the extra 1 or 2 guys is enough to beat us just because skill levels are similar. So thats a wash. Invi just recently came back and have 4 guys consistently on. So b/w those two servers there not really much to fight. NSP is zerg nation (has SPCA but they rarely run just 5). We’re just tired of the “were gonna run however many guys are on because we dont care about competing or good fights. we want to be able to handle the zerg”…..I fear that our guild is one of the ONLY guilds left in gw2 that actually cares about competitive 5 man vs 5 mans in open pvp.

Cool stoty bro…bye

Jscull.2514:

VOLKON.1290:

If you’re actually willing to be a five man havoc squad of death and destruction and… well… havok, JQ would definitely be a nice fit for you.

We have ZERO interest in the pve side of “havoc” teams……taking camps is about as cool as cancer. We want to FIGHT other small man teams. That’s what im talking about.

Sorry, that’s what I was thinking too… havok as in ripping people new ones as opposed to camp flipping groups.

Just effing quit already.

There really isnt a good choice to make but if I was you I would give T1 a shot. Before we left BG to move to FC T1 was really zergy but a few months before that SoR had a few groups that would beat us with close to even numbers. So I think if you go to a server that faces SoR/BG most weeks you should find some good fights.

The hardest part about T1 at least for us, was when we would finally find a good fight we had to try to finish it as fast as possible because its just a matter of time before a zerg spots you and swoops in.

Also 95% of the wvw’ers in T1 obsess about the score so that can get frustrating if you don’t care about it.

But I can’t think of anywhere else for you to try.

BG and SoR have a decent amount of roaming squads from what I have seen, therefore you probably want to join JQ. I run with a 2-3 man roam on BG, looking forward to getting rolled by your 5 man organized group

Stay out of T1.

We ended up leaving JQ months ago due to the fact that there was nothing to do for small groups. Everywhere you turn you run into Zergs. You’d spend 2 hours out roaming looking for fights and only fight a handful after trying to evade the Zergs.

Unless AN does something to break up the zergs (they won’t because they’ve done everything possible to get people to play together) into smaller skilled groups you are just going to come across fewer and fewer dedicated teams as time goes on. They will either quit, try and form into a Zerg busting groups, or just roam for 1v1s.

It really sucks, but nothing we can do about it.

If you want to do roaming i would suggest to transfer to a low ranked server. There will still be zergs but not all the time and the individual skill level is usually higher so you will get better fights.

At least that’s how i experienced it in EU.

I’m thinkin maybe going to BP to fight the CD guilds and heard a couple on EBay? Thoughts on that? Not interested in the server were going to’s small mans because we can’t fight them. Thanks for the input too. And no kitten this is Daoc, not even close. This game is 1/100 the competitive atmosphere that was due to game mechanics and the general population this mmo attracted.

Have you tried tPvP?

I really don’t know what to say here either. I want to reflect what my buddy Rez said, and that JQ might be a good fit. You would have us and oPP to fight against. The smaller SoR groups seem to be out less and less these last couple of weeks, perhaps because BG is more of a point tick threat (I really have no idea why anyone cares so much any more). CD has more or less quit, and I rarely see CAPS any more.

Running a small man group has been increasingly frustrating these last couple of weeks on BG. Having you there to fight would be refreshing, but everything just turns into a pug zerg fest regardless. Hopefully it is just my bad luck lately.

Jscull.2514:

I’m thinkin maybe going to BP to fight the CD guilds and heard a couple on EBay?

I’m on CD and I’d be happy to fight you guys; we have a bunch of roaming groups nowadays. The only issue is whether or not we’ll be paired with BP and/or EBay on a regular basis or if this week’s matchup was just a fluke or not.

Only time will tell, I suppose.

Avoid the top 2 tiers like the plague. You won’t be able to avoid the zergs, you’ll be run over the second your spotted. Even if it looks like your having a friendly small group fight, your pretty much considered a speed bump lol.

Your best to go to the lower tiers where you’ll find multiple small group fights without worry of being run over.

To everyone telling them to quit or go play tPvP, thanks for proving once again that forums are a place where people try to get help from a community and instead you kitten on them.

Best of luck PAXA. If you leave GW2, I hope to find you in another game in the future.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Avoid the top 2 tiers like the plague. You won’t be able to avoid the zergs, you’ll be run over the second your spotted. Even if it looks like your having a friendly small group fight, your pretty much considered a speed bump lol.

Your best to go to the lower tiers where you’ll find multiple small group fights without worry of being run over.

Weve spent the past year in the last 3 tiers, and the “small mans” there basically run 10. Theyll run 5 and if they lose, they just bring more people to guarantee wins…just sacless play So it’s chance some higher tiers or bail.

The reason many of us are telling them we don’t care if they quit is because of their egos and mentality that if you don’t run 5 man than you are bad or less skilled or 5 man is the only “competitive” way to go

Don’t complain, you are fighting against NSP the “small-man server”…

…although, their small-mans will generally run with 10 other small-mans in a 50-person zerg. :

To be honest, it doesn’t matter what server you’re on. Once the enemy dies enough times, they’ll make sure to bring more the next fight and so on.

When we first got on HoD, the enemy would often run in 10-15 man zergs which was great for our 5-man. After a while, they started running in 20-30 man zergs. We decided to alter builds and run 8-10 and those zergs were good for us. Now the enemy normally runs in 40-man zergs. If we were to go to 15-man, they would probably only run around in 60-man zergs. That type of mentality is mostly what you’ll find. In all our time fighting enemies, the only small-mans that would come back consistently with the same numbers and try a different tactic were invi and spca. 2 out of 15+ small man guilds we’ve fought? Terrible odds.

You’re better off doing 5v5’s in star trek online than in GW’s (try it, really)

Weve spent the past year in the last 3 tiers, and the “small mans” there basically run 10.

Might be different on NA servers but at least over here in EU, we are having plenty of smallscale fights, solo roaming and even duels with players of all servers sitting beside watching (and not even always at mill ^^).

It depends on the server you are playing on/against, for sure. For english speakers, i could only recommend Gunnar’s Hold since i had some of my best fights against those people and everytime our servers got matched against we are having a duel evening on thursday with lots of people coming.

The game and its player-base is to casual to support anything competitive. when you talk about skilled/competitive fights in WvW its usually 30v30 us bro. like when did that become a thing?.. its the complete reverse from other mmo’s, zerging is glorified while small mans 5v5 or 5vX is basically not cared about.

myself i came from Warhammer 6v6’s Rift and Swtor 4v4’s 8v8’s. i unfortunately never had to chance to play DAOC. but for some mind blowing reason the gw2 player-base wants to 5x those numbers, spam 1 and claim skilled fights.

As already said in a few other posts, you could try T1 JQ or SoR and basically run into OPP or RIOT, but that’s it, the only reason to be in t1 is you can find ppl to kill 24/7 other then thakittens a horrible tier to be in, if a fight lasts more then a few mins, expect add’s or to be zerg’d its really sad. id do 5v5’s all day if it was possible in this game.

Sanny.1270:

The game and its player-base is to casual to support anything competitive. when you talk about skilled/competitive fights in WvW its usually 30v30 us bro. like when did that become a thing?.. its the complete reverse from other mmo’s, zerging is glorified while small mans 5v5 or 5vX is basically not cared about.

myself i came from Warhammer 6v6’s Rift and Swtor 4v4’s 8v8’s. i unfortunately never had to chance to play DAOC. but for some mind blowing reason the gw2 player-base wants to 5x those numbers, spam 1 and claim skilled fights.

As already said in a few other posts, you could try T1 JQ or SoR and basically run into OPP or RIOT, but that’s it, the only reason to be in t1 is you can find ppl to kill 24/7 other then thakittens a horrible tier to be in, if a fight lasts more then a few mins, expect add’s or to be zerg’d its really sad. id do 5v5’s all day if it was possible in this game.

Yea I dont think anyone has promoted the culture more than us but the 99% of the population is starter mmo’ers. Sucks.

Sanny.1270:

… the only reason to be in t1 is you can find ppl to kill 24/7…

That is a really good point. The main reason RIOT didn’t move to T8 with you guys is because we have a lot of members who play Oceanic/Sea/EU/Mars timezones (looking at you, Yishis and Vessu Verra). T1 really does offer 24/7 action on every BL, and that has been the only thing keeping us here. As much as I would LOVE to see you guys go to JQ, I would have to say that if you only play NA primetime, your best bet is to avoid T1.

For our brief time in T2 it seemed to have the best of both worlds: small fights with lots of action around the clock in every BL. I don’t know how that has changed in the last few months though.

My personal opinion is that you should do tPvP for small man stuff. I don’t think you’re going to find what you’re looking for in t1 even if there are a few small guilds that play sometimes. Most of the time it’s just zvz here.

Israel.7056:

My personal opinion is that you should do tPvP for small man stuff.

That isnt real open field combat. It is bunker wars/ flavor of the month builds. Plus, its objective based combat, get points and capture the circle. It is NOT kill the other team and use strategy to win the fight. It isnt deathmatch. I could care less about ANY points in this game, their all useless/meaningless. tpvp and spvp have good players dont get me wrong, but the style of fighting is kittened.

Jscull.2514:

Moving our 5 man as a last effort not to quit the game. Name some places where small mans fight small mans daily. We understand the 80 mans are around, dont care well avoid them. We dont want to zerg bust, we want other small mans to legit fight. Ones that dont add to 10 when they lose? Do those exist? Please advise.

You could join us on JQ. BG and SOR can be massive balls of zerg, but for your five man team, you could slip in and cap stuff. There is always a borderland we are never on that you can run around grabbing karma and outnumbered buff all night long.

You will have to get good good at zerg dodging. could be a new challenge….

People with more than four friends shouldn’t feel constrained to only run with five when more than four of those friends are online. This is basically the crux of your problem. People have too many friends that want to play together.

You might not have considered this, but a group’s number will sometimes increase as the night goes on when friends log in. We (meaning AD) have never called more people in just so we can go get PAXA or any other guild. The implication of that is extremely insulting. We usually try to leave small mans alone and avoid them when we have more numbers.

Go ahead and move up to fight EB. They have some great players. But GF generally runs with 10 and Sekz runs with 15+, probably more. The other servers in that region of the bracket that we have played against don’t have any small man teams that run consistently. You will be fighting zergs much more often than in the lower tiers.

The best server we have run across as far as having the most capable and challenging players in under 10 man fights is NSP. I’m not saying they have the best players. They just have quite a few good to very good players.

edit: I think you would find GF willing to set up 5v5 duels, but in the open field you are going to be running across anywhere from under 5 to 15.

Jscull.2514:

That isnt real open field combat. It is bunker wars/ flavor of the month builds. Plus, its objective based combat, get points and capture the circle. It is NOT kill the other team and use strategy to win the fight. It isnt deathmatch. I could care less about ANY points in this game, their all useless/meaningless. tpvp and spvp have good players dont get me wrong, but the style of fighting is kittened.

Alright well as I said before I don’t think you’re going to find what you’re looking for in t1.

Oozo.7856:

People with more than four friends shouldn’t feel constrained to only run with five when more than four of those friends are online. This is basically the crux of your problem. People have too many friends that want to play together.

You might not have considered this, but a group’s number will sometimes increase as the night goes on when friends log in. We (meaning AD) have never called more people in just so we can go get PAXA or any other guild. The implication of that is extremely insulting. We usually try to leave small mans alone and avoid them when we have more numbers.

Go ahead and move up to fight EB. They have some great players. But GF generally runs with 10 and Sekz runs with 15+, probably more. The other servers in that region of the bracket that we have played against don’t have any small man teams that run consistently. You will be fighting zergs much more often than in the lower tiers.

The best server we have run across as far as having the most capable and challenging players in under 10 man fights is NSP. I’m not saying they have the best players. They just have quite a few good to very good players.

edit: I think you would find GF willing to set up 5v5 duels, but in the open field you are going to be running across anywhere from under 5 to 15.

We prob got that impression from you through the 500 posts about small man mentality you wrote that we all read. Insulting is how you may have taken it, but it is the truth. Regardless of if you didn’t do it to fight us specifically, it happened. Don’t feel bad Oozo, for you are 1 of about 10 guilds that did this consistently. Plus, we don’t play this game for social hour….the 5 guys in my guild I am friends with and some here and there in other guilds on HoD. I don’t play mmo’s to make friends. I play to compete. This is simply the wrong game for it, that HAD alot of skilled pvpers come out of the wood works to try mmoing again.

Don’t listen to anyone who names the T 1 servesr: JQ, BG and SOR as havoc friendly.

When I left those servers, some people were posting on the forums here saying they were.

They are not. I was the only person running with 5mans on ALL 3 servers and it was zergy as kitten.

Middle tier would be your best bet. You would have to talk to people who run 5mans.

Seeing a 5man on a server does not constitute it a havoc friendly one. It just means 5mans run from time to time and they might get zerged constantly till they quit>>another server.

Also, you might want to know the time these havocs run at..after midnight might be less zergs around etc etc. Might not comply with your game time.

Oozo.7856:

People with more than four friends shouldn’t feel constrained to only run with five when more than four of those friends are online. This is basically the crux of your problem. People have too many friends that want to play together.

You might not have considered this, but a group’s number will sometimes increase as the night goes on when friends log in. We (meaning AD) have never called more people in just so we can go get PAXA or any other guild. The implication of that is extremely insulting. We usually try to leave small mans alone and avoid them when we have more numbers.

Go ahead and move up to fight EB. They have some great players. But GF generally runs with 10 and Sekz runs with 15+, probably more. The other servers in that region of the bracket that we have played against don’t have any small man teams that run consistently. You will be fighting zergs much more often than in the lower tiers.

The best server we have run across as far as having the most capable and challenging players in under 10 man fights is NSP. I’m not saying they have the best players. They just have quite a few good to very good players.

edit: I think you would find GF willing to set up 5v5 duels, but in the open field you are going to be running across anywhere from under 5 to 15.

How AD wins vs pugs and up arrows: Roll guarduians with a tough hide on their forehead to roll it across their keyboard and call it skill. Sadly it reflects on the current game state and casual gamer mentality.

Most of these 5mans will crumble if they don’t roll guardians against proper groups. Sadly it reflects the poor balance of certain classes and more so in PVE.

You have to have 10 these days to compete because if you run into any groups on voice with two guardians minimum your 5man will get rolled. It’s just the way the game is built:
Numbers+Guardians over skill.

Have you considered the mid-tier EU servers? The EU meta is different from the NA meta and honestly I think you have a better chance of finding what you’re looking for over there instead of on NA.

Right now Borlis is about in the middle in ranking and has the chance to fight most of the servers that have been named with 5 man teams. I think they might be a good place to look if you are wanting to run against the small teams so you can fight them.

Basically, you want fair 5v5 fights, in WvW, but don’t care about points/yaks/keeps/towers? You want to spvp in WvW basically? Why don’t you just…. Never mind.

Join JQ. I will enjoy rolling 50 man zergs over your 5 man group just to read threads like these. Good luck lol

LordKael.7260:

Have you considered the mid-tier EU servers? The EU meta is different from the NA meta and honestly I think you have a better chance of finding what you’re looking for over there instead of on NA.

Our biggest concern with EU is that in our primetime 7-11 PM CST, there wont be anyone on.

Jscull.2514:

Our biggest concern with EU is that in our primetime 7-11 PM CST, there wont be anyone on.

Unless I counted the hours correct that would be from midnight to 4 AM in central Europe (+1 h GMT/UTC). I cannot talk about all EU matchups, but at least for us there would be a lot of people online at that hour, including enemies.

To my knowledge our dear opponents Visunah Square (French) and Baruch Bay (Spanish) have a night team. But those are stacked servers so that means queue and more queue. Desolation also has a small night team (and couple of NA commanders). At those hours there is rarely ever any queue, unless you talk about reset night and multiple guilds doing a huge push out event.

XII.9401:

Oozo.7856:

People with more than four friends shouldn’t feel constrained to only run with five when more than four of those friends are online. This is basically the crux of your problem. People have too many friends that want to play together.

You might not have considered this, but a group’s number will sometimes increase as the night goes on when friends log in. We (meaning AD) have never called more people in just so we can go get PAXA or any other guild. The implication of that is extremely insulting. We usually try to leave small mans alone and avoid them when we have more numbers.

Go ahead and move up to fight EB. They have some great players. But GF generally runs with 10 and Sekz runs with 15+, probably more. The other servers in that region of the bracket that we have played against don’t have any small man teams that run consistently. You will be fighting zergs much more often than in the lower tiers.

The best server we have run across as far as having the most capable and challenging players in under 10 man fights is NSP. I’m not saying they have the best players. They just have quite a few good to very good players.

edit: I think you would find GF willing to set up 5v5 duels, but in the open field you are going to be running across anywhere from under 5 to 15.

How AD wins vs pugs and up arrows: Roll guarduians with a tough hide on their forehead to roll it across their keyboard and call it skill. Sadly it reflects on the current game state and casual gamer mentality.

Most of these 5mans will crumble if they don’t roll guardians against proper groups. Sadly it reflects the poor balance of certain classes and more so in PVE.

You have to have 10 these days to compete because if you run into any groups on voice with two guardians minimum your 5man will get rolled. It’s just the way the game is built:
Numbers+Guardians over skill.

WTF are you talking about? I’ve spent the past month and a half playing mostly necro with often times zero guardian support. The 5 mans in question almost all run two guardians. The guild groups we fight almost all have heavy guardian support. Typically more than we do.

I’ve just recently switched back to playing my guardian and I catch flak for it. Good one. And yes, playing with guardians is far easier than playing without a single one supporting you. I just got done playing that hard mode kitten as a necro.