Guild Wars 2

Make the world vs world maps significantly bigger and redesign ‘Borderlands’.
(Or combine all 4 maps into 1 giant open world zone.. kind of like when you zoom all the way out)
Issue:

The maps are too small, the objectives are too close together, their are not enough objectives. – This allows 1 large group of players to roam around each zone within minutes. The point of ‘open world pvp’ is so that 1 large group is ‘slow’ and can be countered by multiple smaller groups hitting multiple objectives. There are simply not enough objectives and not enough distance between each objective for this to actually be a possibility. As it stands, WvW is actually Zerg vs Zerg.
(If you time how long it takes to run across ‘Borderlands’, its actually laughable.

‘The Borderlands’ was apparently designed to ‘narrow’ the players down the left and right side ‘lanes’ . This is due to the large body of water in the middle of the map and the symmetrical design of the map in general. This almost eliminates all choice of what keeps to take… that choice is really an illusion, because there are so few objectives.

The combination of terrible map design (borderlands) and an absolute under-sizing of all 4 maps..creates a system that forces players to zerg down the same objectives over and over, rather than actually having an Open World PvP game.

If the maps were bigger players would be able to execute more strategy and server pop would not be the deciding factor. Obviously if you cram players into such a small map, and make it so ‘fast and easy’ to take keeps than of course the group with more numbers will win. Poorly designed system.

Anet said that they ’ were inspired by DAoC and studied their RvR system’.. well apparently no one that works at Anet has ever played DAoC. I don’t know what they studied but fake open world pvp absent of almost all actual strategy was not RvR.

I feel bad for anyone who never experienced an Open World PvP game before… because this game has sold you an illusion of open world pvp.. not the real thing.

If you actually play GW2, you would know that this isn’t even possible…haha

@anti It is possible………but It would take a couple of years to program and test…..and a good amount of money.

Anet would have to redo the entire pvp system of the game………and they will never do that.

The reason we have 4 zones is because the engine cannot handle all those players in one zone…..

heck the engine has a hard enough time handling all those players in 4 zones

Well they NEED to make bigger maps… if they can’t make bigger wvw maps, this game’s (open world concept) will die. Without bigger maps, completely as it is now… their open world concept has failed.

People will play it like it is now for a few more months … but after that it will clearly start to die… Nobody, good or bad.. wants to zerg down the same road and take the same keep in the exact same way every week… i promise.

What Anet failed to do is this:
1. Understand why open world pvp was something everyone wanted..
2. Understand why Open world pvp worked so well in DAoC…

Anet said that they ‘were inspired by DAoC and studied their RvR’… well after seeing what they’ve delivered.. I have no idea what they were ‘studying’ and I’m certain they have no understanding of 1 or 2.

The explanation for 1 and 2 are actually exactly the same..

Open world PvP is fun.. because it is UNIQUE and at times random.. Every battle should be a little bit different than the last.. and when you run out with your group/guild into the BIG OPEN WORLD ZONE you don’t already know what is going to happen… It allows for PLAYER DRIVEN interactions and player CHOICE…

DAoC was not so successful and loved because of Realm Ranks, or 3 different factions or 45 unique classes…. DAoC was successful and loved because it had proper MAP DESIGN, plain and simple. The open world zones were HUGE.. and the objectives were SPREAD APART.. this made it so every day/week was different and unique.. Also and almost more importantly.. 1 zerg couldn’t roam around the entire map controlling everything until another zerg kills them…

The sad part is, Anet didn’t ‘miss’ the fact that their maps are so small that 1 zerg can roam around and take things only until another zerg fights them… they MADE IT LIKE THAT… why? Because they THOUGHT we wanted that… Anet looked at DAoC and said.. oh this went well because PEOPLE LOVE ZERGING… facepalm.

.Anet looking at Open World PvP.. is like my dog looking at my computer screen… " I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I’M DOING"….seriously, nice try.. but kind of missed the whole point

It’s a MMO, and there are no sub. It means it’s gonna be very easy to get people back when they expand on the CORE design of the game. Something else you need to take into account with MMOs is that they evolve. The core is good, can it get better? of course(even WoW can get better, or worse according to opinions, after all these years)

Dude wtf are you talking about? Do you even PLAY THIS GAME?!

Map size is already questionably big with 4 different maps to play, thus spreading the player base thin. Making us WALK across a bigger map does not help. Its not the maps/strats that’s the issue as that’s for the players to utilize as they please.

The problem is the reward system vs time sink into WvW. You spend hours and get very little in terms of loot/gold/badges. Grats on your karma and exp bro, but that’s about all you’re getting…. Assuming you take a fort/keep which takes forever.

Nhemin.1520:

Dude wtf are you talking about? Do you even PLAY THIS GAME?!

Map size is already questionably big with 4 different maps to play, thus spreading the player base thin. Making us WALK across a bigger map does not help. Its not the maps/strats that’s the issue as that’s for the players to utilize as they please.

The problem is the reward system vs time sink into WvW. You spend hours and get very little in terms of loot/gold/badges. Grats on your karma and exp bro, but that’s about all you’re getting…. Assuming you take a fort/keep which takes forever.

Not really DAOC map was as big as all of the 4 maps combined, I can see where he is comeing from, but Anet cant do what DAOC did. There graphic are way better then DAOC. There is no way to fit that many players on one map, and have really nice graphics, Char detail etc etc at the same time.

I don’t think you get WvW and the idea behind the maps.

They are equalizers of skill. The boarderlands are the same on purpose. Each server has it’s own central spawn zone. Each server has a spawn zone on the SE and SW side of an enemy map. The exception is EB which changes your spawn zone each week, but each area is roughly the same. This way, no one has a tactical advatage due to geography.

Open world PvP as I’ve come to know it is just ganking and ambushing people in a disorganized environment. If you want to do that, you need only cower in an unreachable spot on an arrow cart in the jumping puzzle.

The Wvwvw is not my definition of open world pvp, more like a triangular battle on an enormous scale with siege to account for, NPC allies to help guard your supplies, important supply lines, strategic locations, huge battles…

While it needs more variety after a long while, I find it satisfying for now.

DAoC was not so successful and loved because of Realm Ranks, or 3 different factions or 45 unique classes…. DAoC was successful and loved because it had proper MAP DESIGN, plain and simple. The open world zones were HUGE.. and the objectives were SPREAD APART.. this made it so every day/week was different and unique.. Also and almost more importantly.. 1 zerg couldn’t roam around the entire map controlling everything until another zerg kills them…

Not sure what DaoC you played but DaoC I played for years mostly revolved around AMG in Emain Macha, with the occassional foray into Midgard lands. Most people avoided albion because it sucked.

And as far as zergs go it’s pretty easy to avoid the zergs and do small scale stuff been doing it in GW2 since day1 that’s all we ever mainly wanted to play for.

The design isn’t really that big of an issue.

And to the guy going on about rewards, seriously…..people played DaoC for years very happily with very very few rewards other than some number (RR), a bunch of extra things you could do skills/stats and their name on a leaderboard. Kept us entertained for years.

The rewards is kicking the snot out of the other servers.

I would play in blood to play a DAoC 2.0 :|

Hell, even a DAoC classic with updated engine/textures.

I got 99 problems but the map size ain’t one.

Sorry just had to

I don’t see how larger map may improve game experience, you are saying that WvW is just one zerg vs another and there is only a way to take a fort/keep.
I know what you mean but i can sometime see outthere very nice battle, very funny indeed. Players have to take the best from this format (which i find awesome).
It can be improved and i assume it will, there are few balancing related issues but a larger map zone? I am not sure..

Unfortunately they’ve already bitten off more than the engine can handle with WvW. Expect downsizing and reduced player numbers.

YOU SERIOUS ? With these small maps they can’t provide us an enjoyable experience EVER. It’s in fact getting worse with horrible huge amount of invisible people past patch and you want even more people in the maps ?

I can’t even consider this because Arena Net doesn’t have the technical ability or the appropriate servers for this.

As casual player, it would allow me to play more WvWvW.

Because of queue i just can play WvWvW on weekends.

I agree the maps are rather small, I am not even sure if the LOTRO Ettenmoors Monsterplay map is smaller or actually larger than these. And that game is rather old now.

The size of the maps combined with certain mechanics, like the invulnerability buff on camp leaders, makes it possible to reach a contested camp from anywhere on the map, making it hard for individuals or small groups to take them, before the zerg arrives.

Spurnshadow.3678:

I don’t think you get WvW and the idea behind the maps.

They are equalizers of skill. The boarderlands are the same on purpose. Each server has it’s own central spawn zone. Each server has a spawn zone on the SE and SW side of an enemy map. The exception is EB which changes your spawn zone each week, but each area is roughly the same. This way, no one has a tactical advatage due to geography.

Are you kidding me… of course i ‘get’ the maps. They are not very complicated.. actually the opposite. I didn’t say anything about giving any side a ‘geographic advantage’. The bottom line is that the objectives are too close together due to map size. This allows 1 large zerg to roam around until contested by another zerg.

The small maps have an enormous effect on multiple factors of this game. If the maps were much bigger, server populations wouldnt absolutely dictate who wins (like they do now). If you cram that many players into a closet, the side with the most players win. But if you have actually big real open world maps.. you can actually implement real strategy and 1 zerg wont dominate each map.

Don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about, I play on ET. I know exactly what it is like to be 3rd in tier 1 and 1st in tier 2. We win in tier 2 because we have 1 huge zerg per map taking everything.. and we lose in tier 1 because those servers have bigger zergs and more of them, period. 0 strategy involved.

Bigger maps = more unique experiences, player driven strategy

I see, so whoever has the biggest zerg wins? That’s so not true. 15 can hold off 50 at a properly defended tower. I’ve held off a hoard for over an hour in the lord room with like 15-20 on our team with arrow carts and ballistae untill reinforcments signed on (it was like 9AM when they finally gave up.) How you delploy your forces, speed of reaction to the enemy, what you’ve invested money into, what objectives you take, and who you’re taking them from are critical.

Yea lets combine the 4 maps. And when a huge battle happens, 99% of the players comp freeze and lag because 300vs300vs300 in 1 castle is so obviously possible right now right? lol

Even as it is right now. Try going into Stonemist against both servers with near maximum capacity engaging in fights. Lag like crazy.

I’d rather see double the amount of maps (even just clones of current maps to save development time) and half the amount of players allowed into each one, but then, I am a fan of the smaller scale fights and tactical play.

At least a bish ain’t one because then I’d feel bad for you son.

forthegz.5814:

Make the world vs world maps significantly bigger and redesign ‘Borderlands’.
(Or combine all 4 maps into 1 giant open world zone.. kind of like when you zoom all the way out)
Issue:

The maps are too small, the objectives are too close together, their are not enough objectives. – This allows 1 large group of players to roam around each zone within minutes. The point of ‘open world pvp’ is so that 1 large group is ‘slow’ and can be countered by multiple smaller groups hitting multiple objectives. There are simply not enough objectives and not enough distance between each objective for this to actually be a possibility. As it stands, WvW is actually Zerg vs Zerg.
(If you time how long it takes to run across ‘Borderlands’, its actually laughable.

‘The Borderlands’ was apparently designed to ‘narrow’ the players down the left and right side ‘lanes’ . This is due to the large body of water in the middle of the map and the symmetrical design of the map in general. This almost eliminates all choice of what keeps to take… that choice is really an illusion, because there are so few objectives.

The combination of terrible map design (borderlands) and an absolute under-sizing of all 4 maps..creates a system that forces players to zerg down the same objectives over and over, rather than actually having an Open World PvP game.

If the maps were bigger players would be able to execute more strategy and server pop would not be the deciding factor. Obviously if you cram players into such a small map, and make it so ‘fast and easy’ to take keeps than of course the group with more numbers will win. Poorly designed system.

Anet said that they ’ were inspired by DAoC and studied their RvR system’.. well apparently no one that works at Anet has ever played DAoC. I don’t know what they studied but fake open world pvp absent of almost all actual strategy was not RvR.

I feel bad for anyone who never experienced an Open World PvP game before… because this game has sold you an illusion of open world pvp.. not the real thing.

I agree with you but of course Daoc had 3 Frontier zones not just 1 to spread the action out.

Ranc.7192:

@anti It is possible………but It would take a couple of years to program and test…..and a good amount of money.

Anet would have to redo the entire pvp system of the game………and they will never do that.

The reason we have 4 zones is because the engine cannot handle all those players in one zone…..

heck the engine has a hard enough time handling all those players in 4 zones

Daoc had unlimited number of players in their frontiers and they had the technology 10 years ago, there is no reason why GW2 can’t use it. The large zones spread the action out, yes a zerg of 100 v 100 at a keep did happen and the server handled it fine, other player could even pass through the zone nearby the keep without knowing there was a massive battle just up the road, the only thing that gave away where the battles were was the death spams. What made the action? Guilds claimed keeps and when guards from that keep was killed that guild got notified by spam of numbers who are attacking that keep. If that guild was online and had numbers they would rally up and head out to save the keep, if they lacked numbers online they could tell an alliance or just global it letting more ppl know. Some guilds prefered to save their own claimed stuff so other guilds could do other stuff. If this happened in GW2 it would bring the name into the game “Guild Wars”, atm with small maps its just zerg wars.

Spurnshadow.3678:

I see, so whoever has the biggest zerg wins? That’s so not true. 15 can hold off 50 at a properly defended tower. I’ve held off a hoard for over an hour in the lord room with like 15-20 on our team with arrow carts and ballistae untill reinforcments signed on (it was like 9AM when they finally gave up.) How you delploy your forces, speed of reaction to the enemy, what you’ve invested money into, what objectives you take, and who you’re taking them from are critical.

So you beat or held off a zerg with the cover of a tower and arrow buckets? now try that in the open without seige, it’s impossible due to the downed system and spell damage cap.

Had less then 10 people hold mendons gap vs about 40. We had a golem inside on the bridge knocking people off and 2 balistas next to the keep lord. After my golem died offhand axe ww and endure pain on the bridge. Got so many loot baggies. But yeah zerging dosnt always win.

If they add more maps it will hurt lower pop servers who can’t fill them. If they make the maps bigger people will cry to much running. Which they already do now.