Guild Wars 2

Right. Going to let you mull over the title for a moment….

And, now that you are all THOROUGHLY convinced I am simply insane, I assure you that’s only partially true.

However, none of that matters because I have had a epiphany, one that seeks to push the current rather….sad scene of GvG in a better light. AND a solution that also helps ensure there is some compensation for a server to WANT to GvG, to test themselves for the better of their server! Yes, there IS a way to tie both together. This also means my solution will only be applicable with guilds on servers facing one another THAT week. Global GvG is a whole other animal that I am certain we all want.

Let me explain the technical details behind this wonderful system (Best part? Most of the UI for my solution is already in the game here and there, it just needs some adjustments!)

- There is now a new tab under WvW called WvW GvG (Name could be anything, who cares). It opens two kinds of tabs, one for the Guild Leader and/or one with permissions to start a Guild Group in GvG, and one specific for Guild Members without the permission to start things on their own.

- What happens is that at any time during any match-up, a guild leader may activate their Guild as a potential opponent in GvG, so pretty much a checkbox. Upon clicking it, the leader will have to wait until enough of his/her guild’s members go into the ‘WvW GvG’ tab and toggle that they are available to fight and online (Or, Active Members). The Leader will be able to see WHO toggled “Yes I can fight!” and as the Guild list in this GvG tab rises to 10, 15, and 20 active members (Let’s start with those three first), the 10v10 available, 15v15 available, and 20v20 available buttons (Cause those were there at the start, just go with it for now) respectively become active. Think of the interface like a mix of the Guild Roster and the LFG tool.

- Once there is enough members actively saying they are capable of GvGing, the leader can look through any of the lists he has enough active members for and see the opponent, and then try to ‘challenge’ them. …So pretty much a button appears saying ‘challenge’ and the leader can click it. Once clicked, the representative (Person who made their guild able to GvG in the queue) of the guild chosen as an opponent, who was shown to be available, will get a pop-up seeing a CHALLENGE! He/She can choose to accept, decline or ignore over the course of the next few minutes, time given in case of AFK. Ignore means that for the rest of the remaining match-up, neither guild will see each other. Decline will simply refuse the challenge, but both sides will see one another. And accept…accept is where the MAGIC happens!

- When one guild challenges another and the other guild accepts, a GvG pop-up appears for ALL members actively saying they are good to GvG, much like a PvP queue! The faster you get in, the more time you will have to figure out the strategy. In this case, both guilds get put into an entirely new instance of Obsidian Sanctum where NO one can intervene! If during both the acceptance and preparation stage there are disconnecting active players, there will be a small grace period where the acting leader can decide their guild can’t fight. In which case both sides will leave the arena unfortunately.

- If there are NO issues, once the preparation stage is complete a UI will appear for both leaders, signifying what they will wager in terms of Points. The increments go in the hundreds of points per round (which I suggest is something like 100/200/300 if you want to have SEVEN rounds, but we can see.). When I say wager, I really mean to say that each round of this GvG is worth the point increment towards that server, the big thing is that if you lose a round, you give a LOT of points to the other side.

- The amount is determined by the LOWEST one, meaning yes, you need two guilds who want to go high-stakes will see high-stakes. After that, each GvG round will start and there will be a minute between rounds. A round ends when one side is fully DEAD, its a battle to the bloody end! All the rounds will be played, regardless of who wins overall! And finally, once the GvG is finished, the two guilds will NOT see each other in the ‘WvW GvG’ tab until the next week their servers fight one another.

- To Prevent Abuse, like a troll guild on one server just losing points non-stop to a single server, there could be a couple of checks implemented. Guild upgrade levels, losing consecutive rounds in rapid fashion, etc. Lots to think about, but plenty of potential to be had!

TL;DR: GvG system that works with current match-up. Guilds that make themselves available to GvG at any size will show up to a guild that also makes themselves available and capable. Once both guilds consent, a GvG pop-up appears for all guild members involved to go to a separate unique OS instance without interrupters. Much like in PvP and when everyone is in, leaders of both guilds will determine the waging Points for each round. With breaks in-between rounds and only one GvG of the two distinct guilds against one another PER week, there can be rematches over the course of weeks to come.

There you go. Lots of text, but I think I am on the right track for how to appease everyone. Hell, there could even be a SPECTATOR mode. You know, like in PvP.

this could be made even without tying it to any kind of points for servers

a LFG kind of system with separate instance is a nice idea, but missing a very important part of GvG fun, watching guilds fight.

it’s great for the 20 that play, guaranteed no interference etc. , but people need to be able to watch GvG fights for it to have REAL success as a game mode.

KICKER.3874:

this could be made even without tying it to any kind of points for servers

a LFG kind of system with separate instance is a nice idea, but missing a very important part of GvG fun, watching guilds fight.

it’s great for the 20 that play, guaranteed no interference etc. , but people need to be able to watch GvG fights for it to have REAL success as a game mode.

It’s very likely the system crafted can be utilized across all servers, and I did slightly mention a spectator mode at the very end to help the scene overall, cause watching fights is awesome.

But, bear in mind that in terms of WvW, there is a need to have a way for guilds to have their matches matter while the match-up is going on, and I think my solution does just that. If you got a solid guild on your server that can take on any number of guilds from the other higher-pop servers, you might be able to get away with the potential for a LOT of points earned for your guild’s skill.

I love the Idea.

Anet should assign 10% of the PPT towards GvG fights and 10% to the PvP fights
towards the calculation of Points per tick.

So PPT scores
10% from GvG
10% from PvP
80% from BLs/EB fights

It’s a decent working prototype. I take issue with the wagering of points, though. That’s too much power to put into the hands of a very small subset of a server’s population. What’s more is, it’s not really their points to wager; it comes from the collective effort of that entire server’s WvW community. Why should they be accorded special privileges to play fast and loose with the points that others have had a hand in earning?

It could also lead to elitism. For example, a guild wins a match and earns – let’s say – 700 points for their server from their GvG match (a veritable drop in the bucket in a WvW match where that server may earn 200,000+ World Score). I am already familiar with several guilds who would think those 700 points suddenly made them god’s gift to WvW and would make sure to lord it over all the lowly “scrubs”. No thanks.

Other than that, the rest of the match-making portion of the suggestion is sound.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

It’s a decent working prototype. I take issue with the wagering of points, though. That’s too much power to put into the hands of a very small subset of a server’s population. What’s more is, it’s not really their points to wager; it comes from the collective effort of that entire server’s WvW community. Why should they be accorded special privileges to play fast and loose with the points that others have had a hand in earning?

It could also lead to elitism. For example, a guild wins a match and earns – let’s say – 700 points for their server from their GvG match (a veritable drop in the bucket in a WvW match where that server may earn 200,000+ World Score). I am already familiar with several guilds who would think those 700 points suddenly made them god’s gift to WvW and would make sure to lord it over all the lowly “scrubs”. No thanks.

Other than that, the rest of the match-making portion of the suggestion is sound.

I wanted two things to come from this system.

- To create a productive environment where Guilds could actually achieve a form of competitive combat outside of traditional WvW, SPvP and PvE.

- To bridge the gap between WvW and GvG while harming neither side.

The number of points earned per round can be tweaked, my suggestion of 100/200/300 comes with the prospect that between near equal guild skill level, where the score might be 4-3, the gains from spending between half an hour to an hour of fighting a single guild for one time that week would pay off.

The thing about my system is that you cannot just have another match, its one time if both sides agree at that point in the week. There is NO other way to farm points to complicate the score further. We are talking potentially 1-2 matches in all tiers in bronze league, 2-4 matches all tiers in silver league, and 5+ matches across all of gold league, all of them unique in size and scope. I want the values to be either barely equal to the amount of time spent in WvW normally (where a guild might siege objectives and take hold of them for a few ticks) or above that if they perform spectacularly well.

The issue about Elitism, it’s not going to suddenly change for the worse simply because it already exists now between all the current unofficial GvGs in OS, or the bragging rights people are performing when they topple maxed-out Garrisons. There won’t be a sudden rise in elitism, at least not to the extent I believe you think it will be.

And for the record, I believe GvG to be a very important yet untapped role in any Guild. It is a small subset, but something like this would definitely turn some already WvW heavy guilds into taking some of their time trying their luck in the arena if they can catch a decent intake of points.

And I think that is a brilliant thing.

Oh look! another GvG thread to be ignored by ANet

Skady.5916:

Oh look! another GvG thread to be ignored by ANet

Surprised?

No honestly, I really like your idea. Spectators should be allowed in Wisp form (like at the Mad King JP last year) on the pods above the arena with some aditional fences or glass walls around them. These pods could be lowered a bit for better visibility.

Should also tie in a time restraint, ex a guild must be 3-4days -1week old or must hit a certain research mark in the guild to unlock it. 2 of anets favorite things time gates and gold sinks.

The thought is good… but its not GvG.

You have to realize that GvG isnt simple PvP. Because that’s what you describe, PvP with a set number peeps on each team, fighting in an instance with a fixed objective in order for the system to determine who won so that they can be rewarded approprietly. In fact, you’re describing tournaments with 20v20.

GvG is so much more.

How exactly would Anet create set of requirements for determining who won a GvG in your implemention? Because last time I checked, GvG was definetly not about total annihalition. Imagine if in a boxing match, the winner beat down the looser and kept beating him until he’s dead. Because that’s what a GvG ingame system would require – a fixed winning condition. The death of your opponents. All of them. You cant have any kind of flexible rules here or it would be unfair to other GvGs.

In real GvG, the winners win whey know they’ve won just as well as the loosers know they lost. You do not dishonor the entire guild by stomping your foes needlessly. This is incredibly flexible with no clear ruleset. The rules are what the guild leaders have decided for that fight, not the same as previous or future fights.

The instance idea is particularly flawed. One of the really big pros with open world GvG in the WvW areas is that they can be very flexible. Bring 20 peeps to battle, maybe you want to swap out 5 of them after a couple of rounds? Maybe you want to swap out everyone. Maybe only 19 has come and you decide to 15v15 if the opponent agree to it. Maybe someone disconnect and need to be replaced. Etc and so on. Having some sort of roll call and then entrance to a instance… it wouldnt work. It would be just like instanced PvP – you never know how many actually join and the odds are always stacked against you (of course). Getting everything going properly is going to take hours and probably fail anyway… People wouldnt want to GvG with such a system, I assure you.

The instance thing would also miss one of the most fun parts of GvG – fighting in public. Having an audience. Sure GvGers might be able to play just fine without an audience, buts its going to be boring as hell for the community. Again, it would be just like PvP. The combat take place hidden in the mists. No one to see, no one to hear.

TL;DR – Your tournament style GvG implementation is impossible to implement.

At best, I can imagine a “Guilds” tab in WvW where guilds may choose to be listed and their capable players count, while guild leaders on other servers have a quick command for communication with these listed guilds so that they can organize a GvG. Just allow guild leaders to set status on their own guild – “fully scheduled”, “open for GvG anytime”, “raiding tonight on EB”, whatever.

This would not only be intended to assist GvG, but more to bring guilds into light for all three servers to see. For some community spirit, give everyone a +1 token per server or something each week they may put on their favorite guild (but you cant put it on your own guilds), increasing its popularity rating. I really miss not being able to give thumbs up every now and then, even to the enemy.

shouldn’t GvG just be an offshoot of sPVP, with its own maps and objectives?

No, GvG should be much more than a version of PvP with more players. It requires it’s own map size and unique objectives proper to the play style.

It needs to be a complete new game mode, and considering the speed at which competitive multiplayer evolves in GW2 I wouldn’t expect it before 2017.