Guild Wars 2

I just wanted to say, that regardless of how any of us feel about some of the HoT things added to the WvW landscape, one thing I hope we can agree upon that the Desert Borderlands are in fact really beautiful, you can see the effort and work that the designers and developers put in, to make this map really wonderful.

The small details are really nice, the transitions between environments are wonderful to experience. Honestly, as a map, it’s a true work of art.

While maybe it was not a map ideally suited for WvW, it is none the less a really great map in it’s own right, and I have to say, I think it would make a phenomenal PvE map, with a ‘Silverwastes’ type theme to it, where players defend the Keeps, Towers, Camps,and Altars from continually invading NPC’s. It really is the kind of map that I think PvE players would enjoy more then WvW players do.

So please, lets not scrap the Desert Borderlands, they are beautiful maps, and even if we revamp them to make them more WvW Friendly, please, keep the original and put it into Tyira, where I think it would do a load of good and offer a lot of fun to PvE players that might want a map to replace the Silverwates/Dry Top. Maybe combine it with that area and have it drop bandit crests and geoids.

Just my feelings on it. They are wonderfully Stunning maps with a lot of thought put into them. Just maybe a little too over thought for WvW.

It would make a perfect map for expansion 2 – Crystal desert. They could expand the Fire/lava area of new Bay down the middle of the whole map, so players have to wade through it to get to the other side of the map, probably dying halfway through, but keeping in theme with both what happened while the map was used in wvw and the scorched streak down the center of CD.

Joking aside, it is a very pretty map and they did a wonderful job, but it would be better served in elsewhere.

I can appreciate the effort and the beauty in the aesthetics. Unfortunately it is a train wreck in the design.

While not absent of form and function the map is an example of just how little the ANet designers understand this game mode. In fairness, virtually no other MMO has made it this far so huge mistakes must be nearly unavoidable.

I think you’re all silly, but you probably think the same of me. Anyway, there are plenty of other threads for debates, but I can agree that Desert is a beautiful map.

I don’t think the map is ‘beautiful’ at all. But, that’s just an ascetics thing anyway. The problem is the lack of fun – looking forward to the Alpine BLs coming back.

I have no love for the DBL. It is not beautiful at all, it is not only ugly, but bland. The buildings are atrocious, placement of just about everything is awful, I honestly think the people who designed this have no idea what PvP should be about , nor do they understand the goals, objectives and enjoyment of PvP players. This was so poorly done, they need a new team entirely to work on it tbh, as everything they " thought" was a good idea, they should have done the opposite. Lush green gardens, forests, rainbows and flowers are beautiful. Not this " Let’s make a desert canyon area that looks far more pitiful than a real desert canyon mess."

lil devils x.6071:

I have no love for the DBL. It is not beautiful at all, it is not only ugly, but bland. The buildings are atrocious, placement of just about everything is awful, I honestly think the people who designed this have no idea what PvP should be about , nor do they understand the goals, objectives and enjoyment of PvP players. This was so poorly done, they need a new team entirely to work on it tbh, as everything they " thought" was a good idea, they should have done the opposite. Lush green gardens, forests, rainbows and flowers are beautiful. Not this " Let’s make a desert canyon area that looks far more pitiful than a real desert canyon mess."

That’s a bit unfair.
They brought a lot of what a lot of people wanted on these forums (I know not everybody is here or stays the same) into that map. Mainly chokes. And I don’t remember whether or not someone complained about other stuff but the main complaint on these forums was that there’s too many zergs.
Also: The maps I find the most beautiful in this game are Orr – weird, huh? My favourite stuffed animal is a unicorn though.

From a purely aesthetic point of view, yes I agree it is beautiful. Anet has some amazing artists and composers, so the music and artwork that they put out is outstanding. I understand a lot of the reasoning behind the design of the map. I was at first excited to hear about a new map, because like many playing on the same map for so long gets boring after awhile. But when I actually got to play on it during a beta test, and saw all the features and changes that were coming with hot…I cringed and literally felt sick to my stomach.

The issue is that unlike a pve map, when you have a competitive game mode, you cannot simply just throw in a ton of new stuff all at once, a lot of which is clearly unbalanced and not properly tested, and expect it to work properly. Especially in a gamemode like wvw where it is so much more larger and diverse then pvp.

If there was some kind of incremental update done with the new features, and better attention paid to the consequences of taking away guild unlocks and gating guild upgrades behind gold/pve grind. I think things would have went a lot more smoothly, this would at least have allowed for easier attempts to fix or work on problem issues.
Instead it was basically just a clusterf—k.

If not for all those issues, I think the dbl for all its flaws would possibly have been more acceptable. Unfortunately there was just to many barriers put in place that repelled a lot of players, causing some to simply stay in EB, or just stop playing. And unfortunately the map actually became one of those barriers. Alpine bl might have been boring sure, but personally that didnt stop me from playing on it.

Jana.6831:

lil devils x.6071:

I have no love for the DBL. It is not beautiful at all, it is not only ugly, but bland. The buildings are atrocious, placement of just about everything is awful, I honestly think the people who designed this have no idea what PvP should be about , nor do they understand the goals, objectives and enjoyment of PvP players. This was so poorly done, they need a new team entirely to work on it tbh, as everything they " thought" was a good idea, they should have done the opposite. Lush green gardens, forests, rainbows and flowers are beautiful. Not this " Let’s make a desert canyon area that looks far more pitiful than a real desert canyon mess."

That’s a bit unfair.
They brought a lot of what a lot of people wanted on these forums (I know not everybody is here or stays the same) into that map. Mainly chokes. And I don’t remember whether or not someone complained about other stuff but the main complaint on these forums was that there’s too many zergs.
Also: The maps I find the most beautiful in this game are Orr – weird, huh? My favourite stuffed animal is a unicorn though.

I do not recall the zergs complaining about the zergs and the zergs are the majority of the players. The thing with these “zergs” is they are the majority of the players in the game mode. It is a game mode designed for the “Masses” in a massively multiplayer game where you are supposed to be able to play with and against massive amounts of players. The more players on the map the better and the more players on the map means the more players in the game mode spending $$ to support it. Financially it just does not make sense to design a massively multiplayer PvP game mode then cater to the solo players.

They already have a small scale PvP arena, this one is supposed to be the large scale PvP arena. Sure players can come in and duel, roam havoc and what not, but they should not be cry babies when they get face rolled by a zerg in the process as that just comes with the territory. You can solo anyone you want in guild halls and private arenas uninterrupted, THIS is the only place in the game where you can fight large scale battlefield PvP.

Yes parts of the map are gorgeous. I particularly like the dune area above the fire keep and the cavern area around the north east camp. Also Air keep is pretty good looking despite being a chore to navigate.

I’d love for the DBL map to be redesigned to incorporate larger areas of made up of open rolling dunes.

Jana.6831:

That’s a bit unfair.
They brought a lot of what a lot of people wanted on these forums (I know not everybody is here or stays the same) into that map. Mainly chokes. And I don’t remember whether or not someone complained about other stuff but the main complaint on these forums was that there’s too many zergs.
Also: The maps I find the most beautiful in this game are Orr – weird, huh? My favourite stuffed animal is a unicorn though.

That’s a fallacy because you base it on a misconception. The same people who complained about zergs or whatever could also have told you that chokes are not counters to larger groups. Especially not in a ranged meta or when stability mechanics work the way they do at the moment – then chokes will aid larger ranged groups with more control cover (who can both close off- and push through the choke more easily).

As far as the topic goes, yes, it is a nicely polished dookie.

lil devils x.6071:

I have no love for the DBL. It is not beautiful at all, it is not only ugly, but bland. The buildings are atrocious, placement of just about everything is awful

I don’t even think you need to go about wondering if this map was designed for pvp to think it’s ugly.

It is honestly just a big mess once you hit a tower out of any spawn.

Just from a view perspective I’d call it “massive” or “huge” it does have “wide scope” feel to it when you look around. An intense view tho, is as far as I’d compliment it.

The problem with a nice looking map though, you can’t be 100+ ft underground or down in a canyon to look at it. Maybe that’s just my problem though, I feel like I’m in a hole/choke , avoiding a hole/choke or going in/out of holes and chokes pretty much all the time which just spoils any chance of this map having a nice appearance to me.

Fire keep looks pretty awesome. Earth is bland. Air keep can die in a fire (keep)

South borderlands is the best part. I could live without the easr, really.

The Desert Borderland is certainly pleasing to the eye, the problem is it was designed by PvE orientated people rather than PvP ones. If anything they tried too hard, putting in unnecessary features.

They are also a bit too complex and lack obvious routes to get around. The increase in fighting area and changes to waypoint use increased the issue. If I die at the south end of my home map I don’t want to have to run for a couple of minutes to get back.

The HoT Guild ‘improvements’ for WvW were badly thought out and implemented. You cannot earn them in WvW, they are expensive and still overpowerful.

lil devils x.6071:

I do not recall the zergs complaining about the zergs and the zergs are the majority of the players. The thing with these “zergs” is they are the majority of the players in the game mode. It is a game mode designed for the “Masses” in a massively multiplayer game where you are supposed to be able to play with and against massive amounts of players. The more players on the map the better and the more players on the map means the more players in the game mode spending $$ to support it. Financially it just does not make sense to design a massively multiplayer PvP game mode then cater to the solo players.

They already have a small scale PvP arena, this one is supposed to be the large scale PvP arena. Sure players can come in and duel, roam havoc and what not, but they should not be cry babies when they get face rolled by a zerg in the process as that just comes with the territory. You can solo anyone you want in guild halls and private arenas uninterrupted, THIS is the only place in the game where you can fight large scale battlefield PvP.

Jeh, then haven’t you been around for a bit – ever before and after the “adopt a dev”-project everything was against blobbing and zerging – that’s why the map is like it is – no matter how much you like to argue against it (should’ve done that 2-1 years ago) – people wanted the map as it is.

ETA: And yes that’s the huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge downside of the forums: Those who disagree with it are likely not reading them, thus only one side is displayed. In case of class balance I was really sure that whining on the forums wouldn’t work, but it did. In case of the new BL there was no real other option if you haven’t got enough “staff” who play the mode as well and who know it. You have to go by the forums.

If anything, the stab changes, desert bl, and hot additions just made blobbing more appealing.

They reduced AoE damage, without reducing the effect of AoE healing and other buffs from combos.

That combination made guild groups much more powerful and fed into larger pug zergs to compensate.

If they really wanted to reduce zergs they can simply make it that the more allies around you the less reward you get. If you severely outnumber your enemies on a map then no PPK.

X T D.6458:

If anything, the stab changes, desert bl, and hot additions just made blobbing more appealing.

The DBLs are indeed blob killer – choke points everywhere, lava, air blasts, obstacles and so on – it’s really hard to stay a zerg and in some cases even pretty deady; i think it’s the NE camp where you can run in a circle, so you can bash the backline, turn around, bash the melee, and so on.

I personally have really enjoyed these maps. Fighting has been a blast!!

I looks very pretty, but as playable content, it’s terrible. A pretty good generalization of GW2 as a whole, in fact.