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Nice alternative facts there.
Here’s the history in case you all forgot.
Players were tired of two WvW maps, complained that WvW was stagnant.
Anet brings out DBL, replacing ABL. Players hate map.
Poll #1 asks players if you want to keep DBL, or go back to three ABL maps players complained about. Voting to keep DBL would mean a third map would be done.
Players voted to keep DBL so new map would be done, which was better than three ABL maps that we’ve had since launch.Poll #2 asked what kind of rotation they would like with DBL.
The winner was two ABL and one DBL because that was the lowest number of DBL maps.Still no new map.
So the real facts of DBL is that players voted for DBL so that a third BL map would be done and the players voted for only one DBL map because it was the best choice available.
Actually, the polls you are referring to are different than what you’ve outlined.
Poll 1:
Today we’re here to ask about the future of the Desert Borderland map in WvW. Since its release, there has been significant community debate surrounding the Desert Borderlands and there’s been a vocal group of players demanding that the Desert Borderlands map be removed entirely. The question remains, is that opinion actually representative of the vast majority of the WvW community?
Since this is a change that has significant impact on WvW as a whole, 75% of the community vote must be in agreement to disable the Desert Borderlands map.
Do you believe that permanently removing the Desert Borderlands map from play would be a superior game experience compared to having both Alpine Borderlands and Desert Borderlands maps as options?
• Yes: The Desert Borderland map should be permanently disabled.
o Alpine Borderlands will forever be the only Borderlands map.
• No: The Desert Borderland map should continue to be supported.
o Both Alpine Borderlands and Desert Borderlands will remain as map options.
o We will hold a revised Simultaneous Borderlands poll again, to determine how the Desert Borderlands returns.
• Don’t count my vote, just show me the current results.Poll 2:
Again we’re here to ask about the future of the borderlands maps in WvW. The current plan is to rotate the active borderlands map with each quarterly update. The alternative option is to have both Alpine and Desert Borderlands running simultaneously. The down side of both maps running simultaneously is the possibility of imbalance between the maps; the upside is more choice and variety of which map to play on.
How would you like to play both Desert and Alpine going forward?
• Simultaneous Borderlands is a superior option
o At all times there will be 2 Alpine Borderlands and 1 Desert Borderland
o This requires a 75% majority to win.
• Rotating borderlands is a superior option
o Quarterly rotation between 3 Alpine Borderlands and 3 Desert Borderlands.
o If Simultaneous does not win by 75% we will continue with this option.
• Don’t count my vote, just show me the current results.
LOL get rek’t@Swamurabi
I believe the thread of poll #1 has a red post that says that if DBL was not supported no other WvW maps would be done.
Could you please locate that post and provide a link? I’m not seeing it.
That’s it.
Simultaneous borderlands (2ABL, 1DBL) would be more likely to have a third WvW map developed. At least that’s how most of us read Tyler’s comment.
I voted for 2ABL/1DBL rather than a 3ABL-3DBL rotation because it was a better option and also there was the possibility of a third map. Whether the third map was developed, 2ABL/1DBL was a far better choice than having 3DBL for three straight months.
The direct quote from Tyler “Just to clarify. The Simultaneous Borderlands is a system that better supports a third map, than the rotation strategy. So an additional map would be more likely in that respect. However, our development priorities are still community driven. We wouldn’t start building another WvW map unless it was put to a vote, and won.”
Nowhere do they promise a third borderland. You guys made that kitten up, and you are proving that you made it up. The only thing they said is that this system would better support a third borderland map. But they explicitly stated that their priorities did not include a new borderland, and that even if they did development wouldn’t start unless there was another poll.
You, and everyone else, literally made it all up that ANet was going to develop a new borderland map if DBL wasn’t removed.
Nice alternative facts there.
Here’s the history in case you all forgot.
Players were tired of two WvW maps, complained that WvW was stagnant.
Anet brings out DBL, replacing ABL. Players hate map.
Poll #1 asks players if you want to keep DBL, or go back to three ABL maps players complained about. Voting to keep DBL would mean a third map would be done.
Players voted to keep DBL so new map would be done, which was better than three ABL maps that we’ve had since launch.Poll #2 asked what kind of rotation they would like with DBL.
The winner was two ABL and one DBL because that was the lowest number of DBL maps.Still no new map.
So the real facts of DBL is that players voted for DBL so that a third BL map would be done and the players voted for only one DBL map because it was the best choice available.
Actually, the polls you are referring to are different than what you’ve outlined.
Poll 1:
Today we’re here to ask about the future of the Desert Borderland map in WvW. Since its release, there has been significant community debate surrounding the Desert Borderlands and there’s been a vocal group of players demanding that the Desert Borderlands map be removed entirely. The question remains, is that opinion actually representative of the vast majority of the WvW community?
Since this is a change that has significant impact on WvW as a whole, 75% of the community vote must be in agreement to disable the Desert Borderlands map.
Do you believe that permanently removing the Desert Borderlands map from play would be a superior game experience compared to having both Alpine Borderlands and Desert Borderlands maps as options?
• Yes: The Desert Borderland map should be permanently disabled.
o Alpine Borderlands will forever be the only Borderlands map.
• No: The Desert Borderland map should continue to be supported.
o Both Alpine Borderlands and Desert Borderlands will remain as map options.
o We will hold a revised Simultaneous Borderlands poll again, to determine how the Desert Borderlands returns.
• Don’t count my vote, just show me the current results.Poll 2:
Again we’re here to ask about the future of the borderlands maps in WvW. The current plan is to rotate the active borderlands map with each quarterly update. The alternative option is to have both Alpine and Desert Borderlands running simultaneously. The down side of both maps running simultaneously is the possibility of imbalance between the maps; the upside is more choice and variety of which map to play on.
How would you like to play both Desert and Alpine going forward?
• Simultaneous Borderlands is a superior option
o At all times there will be 2 Alpine Borderlands and 1 Desert Borderland
o This requires a 75% majority to win.
• Rotating borderlands is a superior option
o Quarterly rotation between 3 Alpine Borderlands and 3 Desert Borderlands.
o If Simultaneous does not win by 75% we will continue with this option.
• Don’t count my vote, just show me the current results.LOL get rek’t@Swamurabi
I wish I could have changed my votes.
DBL is great, I can go there and never see anyone. Flip empty camps, sentries and what ever, never get contested.
Words cannot describe how awesome this map is for uninterrupted reward track completion, fight guilds are really missing out on this exceptional experience.
I feel like a GOD on DBL because I never die on that map, just burn off those carbs running from camp to camp.
This map has so much inspiration, that I started to craft a Braton Prime and Frost Prime Warframe after I gave up in Season 6 PvP matchmaking.
(edited by sephiroth.4217)
Alternative facts, again. Face it, you dbl whiners would never be happy unless wvw was exactly changed to your liking, and screw the rest of the playerbase. Heck, this has been beaten like a dead horse during the original polls……
Again, as I said before…..don’t like dbl? Don’t play it. Don’t force the rest of the playerbase to conform to your limited ‘vision’.
If the rest of the playerbase like it then where are they? You only have to look at the kill/death stats over the 3 borders to gauge the activity and you can see that there is little action taking place on the DBL map
As a map it’s got some nice points and design ideas however the glaring negatives outweigh the positives and i’d remove it till they can at least rework it to be a good map.
I believe the thread of poll #1 has a red post that says that if DBL was not supported no other WvW maps would be done.
Could you please locate that post and provide a link? I’m not seeing it.
Three posts above yours.
It stated that if DBL was voted out Alpine would be forever the only borderland map.
If the rest of the playerbase like it then where are they? You only have to look at the kill/death stats over the 3 borders to gauge the activity and you can see that there is little action taking place on the DBL map
Standard pug zergs get eaten for breakfast there, one big wipe and they’re usually done with the zone(lowering activity you like to state) as they lose too much manpower from people killing THEMSELVES falling off cliffs, getting picked off by people who know the map, getting hopelessly lost, or just not taking the optimal path to join the tag. Any pugmander that can’t rely on having 100% of his squad to back him up usually has to backpedal to get in a situation more under their control, hence leaving the zone.
Sadly the pugs that rely on following people usually won’t take the time to learn the map themselves so the cycle will continue.
It stated that if DBL was voted out Alpine would be forever the only borderland map.
It seems that’s what the angry types in this thread want though, right?
It stated that if DBL was voted out Alpine would be forever the only borderland map.
It seems that’s what the angry types in this thread want though, right?
Not so sure.
There is a difference between not liking the DBL, and not wanting any other maps ever.
I believe the thread of poll #1 has a red post that says that if DBL was not supported no other WvW maps would be done.
Could you please locate that post and provide a link? I’m not seeing it.
Three posts above yours.
It stated that if DBL was voted out Alpine would be forever the only borderland map.
Which does NOT say that a new borderland will be developed if DBL is allowed to stay.
You can make up kitten as much as you want, but it will forever remain just that, kitten. Anet never said that keeping DBL would mean another borderland would be made.
I believe the thread of poll #1 has a red post that says that if DBL was not supported no other WvW maps would be done.
Could you please locate that post and provide a link? I’m not seeing it.
Three posts above yours.
It stated that if DBL was voted out Alpine would be forever the only borderland map.
Which does NOT say that a new borderland will be developed if DBL is allowed to stay.
You can make up kitten as much as you want, but it will forever remain just that, kitten. Anet never said that keeping DBL would mean another borderland would be made.
I never claimed that Anet said that keeping DBL would mean that another DBL would be made.
Can you please show where I made anything up in this thread, or on this topic?
My biggest complaint is that Rangers still can’t wield 2 longbows
Most of the hate for DBL is just hyped up nonsense by a vocal minority that others have jumped on the bandwagon over. Basic internet culture these days.
I see plenty of play on the desert maps and plenty of guilds raiding in them. Maybe it’s just an EU thing. A lot of servers go there for open field fights near the south camp cos the alpine bls are usually filled with ppters and pugs.
The one thing I don’t like about the desert map is the navigational nightmare around the fire keep.
I’m aware of Tyler’s posts, which if you read them don’t ever promise a 3rd borderlands map. I just wanted to clarify that nowhere in the polls did we say anything about creating a 3rd borderlands map, even though that is stated as a ‘fact’ over and over again on the forums.
Clearly…
The devs at the time clearly didn’t know anything and clearly skewed their wording and misguided the community base.
I’m aware of Tyler’s posts, which if you read them don’t ever promise a 3rd borderlands map. I just wanted to clarify that nowhere in the polls did we say anything about creating a 3rd borderlands map, even though that is stated as a ‘fact’ over and over again on the forums.
it doesn’t matter, the news spread on reddit that you were less likely to create a new map again if people voted to remove DBL. It affected peoples vote and you know it, whether you intended to or not and regardless of whether that was included in the poll or not. What you should’ve done is did another poll clarifying that in the wording of the poll so people like Teon can stop referring to that skewed poll result. Though it might be too late now since most people I know quit the game already.
Did you actually read the reddit link? The whiney dbl haters assumed much from the actual posts.
And I still fail to see ‘all these people’ that quit the game specifically because of dbl, as you claim. Yea, your friends might have quit, but I still see lots of action in dbl.
And yea, I know it is pointless arguing with those that hate dbl. If wvw is such a complete mess, then why do any of you still play? Oh that’s right, you did all quit. Funny, I haven’t noticed.
/shrug
I log on from time to time to get my dailies. lol its funny that back then during the polls I kinda knew you would continue with this attitude and I added you to the friends list to see how often you logged on / last logged on. Its hard to notice whether people quit or not if you haven’t logged on a month or two at a time.
Nice try, but I have two accounts and login every night on one and/or both of them. But, hey, A for effort in the BS department.
And I guess my dailies are achieved by my ghost account…..lol
And just an aside….when did you become so obsessed with my playing habits?
Is your life really that sad?
Too kitten ed funny……lol
(edited by Teon.5168)
My biggest complaint is that Rangers still can’t wield 2 longbows
Oh man, that would be so cool……
Most of the hate for DBL is just hyped up nonsense by a vocal minority that others have jumped on the bandwagon over. Basic internet culture these days.
I see plenty of play on the desert maps and plenty of guilds raiding in them. Maybe it’s just an EU thing. A lot of servers go there for open field fights near the south camp cos the alpine bls are usually filled with ppters and pugs.
The one thing I don’t like about the desert map is the navigational nightmare around the fire keep.
Completely agree. Same on the NA servers, especially the ones I am on. And yea, the fire keeps are a pain in the kitten .
I wish I could have changed my votes.
Its funny, isnt it?
Some of us knew this was coming and voted to delete DBL outright. It was harsh and definitive, yes, but it was the only choice at the time that made sense in order to maintain WvW stability. DBL wasnt good for WvW.
Yet people went on and on and on about how Anet wouldnt support WvW anymore if it wsnt there, that there would be no new maps period… and that a vote for DBL meant new maps was likely. So people flocked to that choice.
Hah!
At least we managed to avoid complete WvW meltdown with the second poll, sigh.
We nearly killed WvW and it was our own fault.
I wish I could have changed my votes.
Its funny, isnt it?
Some of us knew this was coming and voted to delete DBL outright. It was harsh and definitive, yes, but it was the only choice at the time that made sense in order to maintain WvW stability. DBL wasnt good for WvW.
Yet people went on and on and on about how Anet wouldnt support WvW anymore if it wsnt there, that there would be no new maps period… and that a vote for DBL meant new maps was likely. So people flocked to that choice.
Hah!
At least we managed to avoid complete WvW meltdown with the second poll, sigh.
We nearly killed WvW and it was our own fault.
So dbls were a matter of people panicking and “flocking” to that choice out of fear?
LMAO
It’s a game, dude.
Seriously???
Man, this only gets better with age.
I’m aware of Tyler’s posts, which if you read them don’t ever promise a 3rd borderlands map. I just wanted to clarify that nowhere in the polls did we say anything about creating a 3rd borderlands map, even though that is stated as a ‘fact’ over and over again on the forums.
it doesn’t matter, the news spread on reddit that you were less likely to create a new map again if people voted to remove DBL. It affected peoples vote and you know it, whether you intended to or not and regardless of whether that was included in the poll or not. What you should’ve done is did another poll clarifying that in the wording of the poll so people like Teon can stop referring to that skewed poll result. Though it might be too late now since most people I know quit the game already.
Did you actually read the reddit link? The whiney dbl haters assumed much from the actual posts.
And I still fail to see ‘all these people’ that quit the game specifically because of dbl, as you claim. Yea, your friends might have quit, but I still see lots of action in dbl.
And yea, I know it is pointless arguing with those that hate dbl. If wvw is such a complete mess, then why do any of you still play? Oh that’s right, you did all quit. Funny, I haven’t noticed.
/shrug
I log on from time to time to get my dailies. lol its funny that back then during the polls I kinda knew you would continue with this attitude and I added you to the friends list to see how often you logged on / last logged on. Its hard to notice whether people quit or not if you haven’t logged on a month or two at a time.
I’m not sure who you are. I’m especially not sure what you are referencing on this post. I’ve played with Teon on many games over the years. He and I have been doing the dailies and a whole lot of other things like WvW for a LONG time now. I should know. I’ve been married to him for 35 years. You are (how might I kindly say it?) FULL OF KITTEN!. He and I have been having fun on this game, and in WvW together for a lot of nights over quite a few years now. You, my dear child, need to get a grip.
I personally love the DBL. It’s refreshing to not play on snow scenery and the multilevel of the fire keep is really nice.
I think regardless of this quote or that quote of who said what and when, why not create a third boderland map? It would add more variety and a bit more depth to WvW. This way RBG could be rotated weekly on the 3 maps at random.
I’m aware of Tyler’s posts, which if you read them don’t ever promise a 3rd borderlands map. I just wanted to clarify that nowhere in the polls did we say anything about creating a 3rd borderlands map, even though that is stated as a ‘fact’ over and over again on the forums.
“if the community does not accept this map, we will not be making new maps for WvW.”
Community still doesnt accept this map so please remove it since no new map is being worked or will ever be worked on.
Alternative facts, again. Face it, you dbl whiners would never be happy unless wvw was exactly changed to your liking, and screw the rest of the playerbase. Heck, this has been beaten like a dead horse during the original polls……
Again, as I said before…..don’t like dbl? Don’t play it. Don’t force the rest of the playerbase to conform to your limited ‘vision’.
Edit: Here is Tyler’s actual post, rather than the mythical one you keep posting…..and it has a much different meaning than the supposed quote you listed in the above post….please note the last sentence, which has an entirely different meaning than your supposed quote from Tyler……which was actually a quote from other posters, NOT Tyler.
“Just to clarify. The Simultaneous Borderlands is a system that better supports a third map, than the rotation strategy. So an additional map would be more likely in that respect. However, our development priorities are still community driven. We wouldn’t start building another WvW map unless it was put to a vote, and won.”
“So an additional map would be more likely in that respect”
Can you even read?
No, its not an absolute statement of intent, but it does indicate a probability.
(edited by Ragnar.4257)
Plot twist: devs ignored wvw for the past months because next xpac brings a 3rd map.
Besides that, nobody ever said that a 3rd map would be guaranteed, however everyone knew how motivated they’d be to make another map had DBL been kicked out the door. (Hint: not at all)
At the time everyone knew that if there was any hope left for wvw, it would die should this part of development cease to exist.
Back then I voted for DBL besides all the obvious flaws because I genuinely wanted to believe that someone at anet still cared enaugh to eventually fix this map… But unfortunately my wvw motivation died a short time after that because of gimmicks and completely flawed balance.
In the end saying that this dev comment didn’t skew the vote is very likely to be wrong. I doubt anyone thought that we’d get a new border any time soon after how long DBL took, however we’d hoped that some day in the future it would happen. Something that would be a lot more unlikely had “no” won.
Yay a post that ANET actually read well fix this condi mess you have made in WvW give us something for our money and stop giving us Gem stuff in the store. Do something for WvW balance it for one something for all WvWers . Dont care about borderlands give us something to alleviate our pain>
Plot twist: devs ignored wvw for the past months because next xpac brings a 3rd map.
Plot twist: its Tangled Depths with WvW objectives.
Plot twist: devs ignored wvw for the past months because next xpac brings a 3rd map.
Plot twist: its Tangled Depths with WvW objectives.
Plot plot twist: its really bloodstone fen and we finally get gliding in wvw.
I am still hoping for a third borderland and thus having three rotation maps.
My suggestion would be to adapt EB as borderland (or borderlands a bit more like EB)
So you have three diffrent and intresting maps to fight.
Desert is a nice map (the adaptions were good). I don´t want it to be removed even if i am on it only about 20% of my WvW time.
I believe the thread of poll #1 has a red post that says that if DBL was not supported no other WvW maps would be done.
Could you please locate that post and provide a link? I’m not seeing it.
Either it was a forum red post or a reddit post.
This was the red post announcing the results
The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” the final results are:
65.5% No: The Desert Borderland map should continue to be supported.
34.5% Yes: The Desert Borderland map should be permanently disabled.This means that the Desert Borderlands map will continue to be supported. Next, the Mixed Borderlands poll will be re-run to determine how the Desert Borderlands map will re-enter play. Thank you to everyone who voted!
which was followed by this post
So uh for the people saying they wanted a new map but don’t want dbl.
What happens if we vote for a new map, they make it, and you don’t like it, gonna ask them to delete that too?
I’ll keep searching….
It could also be deleted by Arena net because I also do remember Arena net coming out saying “if the community does not accept this map, we will not be making new maps for WvW.”
I really hope they would just remove this map for once and all. I have total of barely 30min of play time on DBL. I don’t appreciate the map and never will. Anet said they worked hard on it but DBL just looks like a map that even failed to be a PvE map.
I as well remember a statement if we didn’t accept this map we are stuck with alpine maps only because I remember everyone voicing their opinion in this very forum on how that was kinda lame.
What I’d like to see the anet devs do is move forward instead of bickering here with the players.
It’s very entertaining to watch so many people from both sides claiming that the respective opposing side is the noisy vocal minority. But it still remain a fact that DBL is a polarising topic with many people either extremely like it or extremely hate it. I mean, you don’t see threads after threads of people calling to remove ABL or EBG.
Can we not have a middle ground here? It’s great that many gimmicky mechanics are slowly being removed from the borderland. But there are still many core frustrations remaining – such as the fire keep, or the isolated objectives that serves minimal advantage in capturing the next objectives (i.e. north/south towers). Also (my personal pain point), the vertical design is still a pain to traverse through – NOT TO MENTION HAMMER WARRIOR STILL KITTEN ON SLOPES. etc. I prefer to see the DBL stay, but really wish it will at least have some huge overhaul at the scale of things like repositioning objectives, redesign some terrains, etc…. It’s also a good marketing push to get people to try DBL again… Noone is going to change someone who outright refuses to play DBL just because a few little gimmicks here and there were removed…
I also voted in favour of hoping to get a third map… Only now I realise the wording -_-… I’m a susceptible person, just like a standard, normal human who doesn’t have a hobby of critically analysing every word and their intents that’s posted on the forum for a game I’m supposed to be having fun playing.
(edited by ThunderPanda.1872)
I say just improve the DBL a bit make it more enjoyable like EBG so more play on the map more too.
I know this will take some doing but make green BL and Blue BL maps in something better these BL maps are too easy when you have a zerg 30+ attacking it.
Maybe like Blue BL map look something like the Maguuma Jungle and The Green Map have forests and water and mountains in it.
Need to make maps more challenging such environment between towers, keeps and camps add things to help slow down 30+ zergs a bit. Improve towers and keeps layout to make it tougher and take a bit longer to take. But also on the other hand defending the same way. Make sure to get rid of so many exploits and cheats to take objectives.
Currently it takes less than 5 minutes to take a tower even it is fully upgraded with 30+ zerg. Keeps takes less than 15 minutes fully upgraded 30+ zerg.
Map Spawn points needs to some improvements and players come out of spawn points they do not get ran over by 20+ enemy player camping the spawn points.
EBG needs an over haul too to make things tougher and more fun. have starting areas look like their own map it’s self for example below
Red Side of EBG make it look a desert Speldan, Mendon’s, Keep, Veloka and Pang. But Anzalia’s and Ogrewatch blend those towers in with the desert plus the layout of Stonemist Castle.
The same way done with Green and Blue side to look like the home borderlands.
Stonemist Castle area maybe add motes around the castle and raise the ground a bit to make Stonemist Castle be sitting on like a mountain top.
Over all just make all the maps more fun, challenging and enjoyable to play on.
Others feel free to add to this post.
I’m aware of Tyler’s posts, which if you read them don’t ever promise a 3rd borderlands map. I just wanted to clarify that nowhere in the polls did we say anything about creating a 3rd borderlands map, even though that is stated as a ‘fact’ over and over again on the forums.
“if the community does not accept this map, we will not be making new maps for WvW.”
Community still doesnt accept this map so please remove it since no new map is being worked or will ever be worked on.
they could salvage the the map and produce a new one by shaving the DBL, but the problem is that players that dont want the DBL map are mostly ktrainers that dont say anything construtive, couse alpine map is easier to farm and very low effort map, and u can hide your butts in a recently capped tower if u dont want to fight, in DBL (offcourse it as issues) is as much empty as alpina map is, players cant hide their buuts.
The issue with map layout + lack of game mechanics, the map is to good for a empty structured game like gw2….
still i would remove fire keep to something more plane, and make spawn and central keep more central towards the central oasis….withc a large deset arround the fire keep zone more open field fight right?
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Over all just make all the maps more fun, challenging and enjoyable to play on.
See this is where it all goes off the rails.
I bet “more fun, challenging, and enjoyable” were pretty much what the goal of the designer’s original concept for the DBL was.
I am very thick-skulled so it takes me a while to grasp things, but I still don’t understand why people keep yammering about new maps. They took years to fix the trebs from spawn issue on the Alpine, and now the DBL has trebs at the southeast spawn that will undoubtedly take years to fix again. If Alpine has an issue why it’s no longer sufficient to play on – fix it. Don’t just introduce new maps that couple the same old problems with fresh new ones.
People put too much faith in the power of a new map. To create one is a massive undertaking in terms of employee time and resources. Why dedicate that amount of man hours on something that isn’t going to solve the problem. Taking 40 stacks of bleed from a necro isn’t going to be more fun, challenging, and enjoyable on the new map.
msalakka.4653, balance is another issue, much more seriously than DBL state imo, but that is something Anet will never change, or hardly they will ever change, game is ment to be broken by default if u balance classes player will QQ they need to put effort to play.
I don’t know the numbers for DBL in the current setup of 2 ABL and one DBL, but in NAT1 the kill-death metric, the only metric that the players can see, is that EBG close to 60%, Green and Blue BL are around 17% and Red (DBL) around 6% of total kill-deaths.
There are other metrics that can be used, Player-hours per map and even players entering map at reset to show how the players feel about DBL.
If the metrics show that DBL is not on par with the other two BLs, then that should show Anet that work still needs to be done to improve the map. Having “I hate DBL” and “I Love DBL” threads won’t change anything.
Now I expect sometime in the future that Anet will eventually make a third borderland map. They have to. Anet cannot make new PvE maps, new raids for PvE, new maps for sPvP and keep WvW, one of the core game modes of GW2, stagnant at three maps. My concern is that Anet will eventually bring the issue up in a poll and if DBL isn’t improved there won’t be 75% of the players that want a third borderland map.
I’m aware of Tyler’s posts, which if you read them don’t ever promise a 3rd borderlands map. I just wanted to clarify that nowhere in the polls did we say anything about creating a 3rd borderlands map, even though that is stated as a ‘fact’ over and over again on the forums.
The one fact you are completely ignoring.
If that terribly designed PvEcentric DBBL map was voted off the island ANet state they’d NEVER make another map for WvW again. You rigged the poll so all that miss placed hard work on a such a terrible map wouldn’t go to waste. You’d validate it b/c the players voted to keep it but in reality they voted for a chance at a new map in the future.
I won’t get into the morale of what was done by Anet or condemn you, but those are the facts. Please stop ignoring them and give the players a new map or remove DBBL
Thank you
Swamurabi.7890 and they need to tweak a bit the DBL layout…
Over all just make all the maps more fun, challenging and enjoyable to play on.
See this is where it all goes off the rails.
I bet “more fun, challenging, and enjoyable” were pretty much what the goal of the designer’s original concept for the DBL was.
I am very thick-skulled so it takes me a while to grasp things, but I still don’t understand why people keep yammering about new maps. They took years to fix the trebs from spawn issue on the Alpine, and now the DBL has trebs at the southeast spawn that will undoubtedly take years to fix again. If Alpine has an issue why it’s no longer sufficient to play on – fix it. Don’t just introduce new maps that couple the same old problems with fresh new ones.
People put too much faith in the power of a new map. To create one is a massive undertaking in terms of employee time and resources. Why dedicate that amount of man hours on something that isn’t going to solve the problem. Taking 40 stacks of bleed from a necro isn’t going to be more fun, challenging, and enjoyable on the new map.
I agree, besides your last statement. If you are taking 40+ bleeds from a necro outside an epidemic… You must be standing still like a zombie.
People are pretty set in thier ways. I like DBL but I am pretty convinced that thier development time would be better spent.
A. Fixing world population issues (consolidate servers)
B. Adding gliding to Desert Borderlands. (put up barriers so you cant fly into towers and keeps.
C. Adding combat to the gliding in Desert borderlands.
There is just no way people are going to accept new maps they are just really set sadly which means its a waste of time to try to add a third.
For Desert Borderland no one like them becasue still with shrine take to much to walk around the mapand players likes fast action (with players) . Shrines are ok but take to much to cap them is like you cap a Supply Camp and you gain only speed no WvW points no good loot.
I kinda like the the design besside the middle of the map , if you do a hot map history im sure is the zone less used because is to zig zag where should be more open view to many ruins and trees .
The Shrine for going north and south should be put in the midlle of the map since no one run to the edge of the map then to use the JP for going south .
Fire keep have a couple of mortars that are usefull cant be used since they fire in the seal with any kind of fire, and the canons on the rest of keeps neither can fire on gate or walls so defensive are like you never have them.
– On air keep at south inner a Druid with the skill that can do a big jump he can jump inside from those pillars same as Garri Alpine BL.
– When you spawn on Stoic Rampart will be better to be faced north or south each time you are east side and that create confusion.
– On the walls of towers cant be used teleports skills while you walking.
In the rest yes Desert is nice to have it thas why we always opened threads for to be bring another map. I will like to still have Desert Borderland if some of this will be solved.
(edited by FOKOZUYNEN.8206)
Whenever SoS is defending DBL, that’s the one that gets queued. People love attacking us.
Honestly, I take way more falling damage trying to get out of the citadel of APL than going anywhere in DBL.
Both maps have their own charm, and it’s no harder to traverse DBL than APL, if you spend 2-3 hours running around it to learn it.
Whenever SoS is defending DBL, that’s the one that gets queued. People love attacking us.
Honestly, I take way more falling damage trying to get out of the citadel of APL than going anywhere in DBL.
Both maps have their own charm, and it’s no harder to traverse DBL than APL, if you spend 2-3 hours running around it to learn it.
That’s the problem. People are lazy kittens, and they don’t want to go around learning a new map when they could just brainlessly follow a zerg on ABL
No, its not an absolute statement of intent, but it does indicate a probability.
Thanks for making my point.
Again, so you can practice your reading skills, this time from Ori….
Nowhere do they promise a third borderland. You guys made that kitten up, and you are proving that you made it up. The only thing they said is that this system would better support a third borderland map. But they explicitly stated that their priorities did not include a new borderland, and that even if they did development wouldn’t start unless there was another poll.
You, and everyone else, literally made it all up that ANet was going to develop a new borderland map if DBL wasn’t removed.
(edited by Teon.5168)
I don’t know the numbers for DBL in the current setup of 2 ABL and one DBL, but in NAT1 the kill-death metric, the only metric that the players can see, is that EBG close to 60%, Green and Blue BL are around 17% and Red (DBL) around 6% of total kill-deaths.
In tier 2, or w/e tier SoS is in, things are a bit different.
47,210 Total Kills
—-
25,247 EBG Kills (53.5%)
11,523 Blue BL Kills (24.4%)
5,513 Red BL Kills (11.7%)
4,927 Green BL Kills (10.4%)
I wager there’s so many kills on Blue BL because it’s currently the weakest server and thus gets cannibalized by the other two.
Meanwhile, your tier 1 stats are being thrown off by the fact that the red team, Maguuma, is intentionally tanking the match. There’s not going to be much action on a BL if the home team is MIA.
Whenever SoS is defending DBL, that’s the one that gets queued. People love attacking us.
Honestly, I take way more falling damage trying to get out of the citadel of APL than going anywhere in DBL.
Both maps have their own charm, and it’s no harder to traverse DBL than APL, if you spend 2-3 hours running around it to learn it.
That’s the problem. People are lazy kittens, and they don’t want to go around learning a new map when they could just brainlessly follow a zerg on ABL
Except that’s not the problem. Brainlessly following a zerg on DBL doesnt seem to be any issue at all – the problem is actually getting people for that zerg because people are lazy kittens that dont want to run around small scale on a huge kittening map so they dont go there in the first place. Just the basic enemy spawn area on ABL (camp, tower, closest combat areas around those two) where people hang around and fight is twice as wide on DBL and cover a huge surface area.
I don’t know the numbers for DBL in the current setup of 2 ABL and one DBL, but in NAT1 the kill-death metric, the only metric that the players can see, is that EBG close to 60%, Green and Blue BL are around 17% and Red (DBL) around 6% of total kill-deaths.
In tier 2, or w/e tier SoS is in, things are a bit different.
47,210 Total Kills
—-
25,247 EBG Kills (53.5%)
11,523 Blue BL Kills (24.4%)
5,513 Red BL Kills (11.7%)
4,927 Green BL Kills (10.4%)I wager there’s so many kills on Blue BL because it’s currently the weakest server and thus gets cannibalized by the other two.
Meanwhile, your tier 1 stats are being thrown off by the fact that the red team, Maguuma, is intentionally tanking the match. There’s not going to be much action on a BL if the home team is MIA.
I’d wager in T2, or whenever green is dominating, that the action is on blue borderland because there is less desire to play on either red or green. That’s why I suggested on a previous thread that WvW go to only two maps, one for the highest ranked server to defend (like GW1 Fort Aspenwood) and the other an equal fight for all (like GW1 Jade Quarry).
But the metrics would show which servers when red defend DBL and if they attack DBL when not red.
Wait, so people voted in the hopes of a 3rd map….
How long did it take to make Desert BL again?
Yea…..
I’m aware of Tyler’s posts, which if you read them don’t ever promise a 3rd borderlands map. I just wanted to clarify that nowhere in the polls did we say anything about creating a 3rd borderlands map, even though that is stated as a ‘fact’ over and over again on the forums.
Well thanks for waiting nearly a year to clarify Anet’s stance on this….
Whether you all ever intended to make a 3rd bl or not it was pretty clear at the time of the poll that the players were under the impression that they better vote to keep the dbl if they ever wanted to see a new map. Don’t try and act like Tyler’s reddit post had no impact on the decision.
I’m aware of Tyler’s posts, which if you read them don’t ever promise a 3rd borderlands map. I just wanted to clarify that nowhere in the polls did we say anything about creating a 3rd borderlands map, even though that is stated as a ‘fact’ over and over again on the forums.
Well thanks for waiting nearly a year to clarify Anet’s stance on this….
Whether you all ever intended to make a 3rd bl or not it was pretty clear at the time of the poll that the players were under the impression that they better vote to keep the dbl if they ever wanted to see a new map. Don’t try and act like Tyler’s reddit post had no impact on the decision.
Likewise, don’t try to pass this off as Anet’s fault that you guys literally made kitten up and started believing it. There was never any indication whatsoever that keeping DBL would mean a third borderland would be developed.
I’m aware of Tyler’s posts, which if you read them don’t ever promise a 3rd borderlands map. I just wanted to clarify that nowhere in the polls did we say anything about creating a 3rd borderlands map, even though that is stated as a ‘fact’ over and over again on the forums.
Well thanks for waiting nearly a year to clarify Anet’s stance on this….
Whether you all ever intended to make a 3rd bl or not it was pretty clear at the time of the poll that the players were under the impression that they better vote to keep the dbl if they ever wanted to see a new map. Don’t try and act like Tyler’s reddit post had no impact on the decision.Likewise, don’t try to pass this off as Anet’s fault that you guys literally made kitten up and started believing it. There was never any indication whatsoever that keeping DBL would mean a third borderland would be developed.
He literary said keeping dbl means it’s more likely they would make a 3rd map. Just because he didn’t say vote for dbl or else go kitten yourself doesn’t mean it wasn’t heavily implied.
Also it’s not like the general impression that people had of his post wasn’t obvious. Go look at some of those threads and see how many players were saying stuff like, “I don’t like the dbl but I’m voting to keep it because I want them to make a 3rd map.”
That was the time they should have stated removing the map wouldn’t affect their decision, not a year later.
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