Guild Wars 2

I spvp more than wvw (mostlly hotjoin/soloqueu). When I go to wvw there is always someone saying that “skill” is the only thing that matters and how they can beat higher numbers ( 99% unorganized group of pugs).

SO HERE IS THE CHALLENGE: go play spvp team queue with 3 players and see what is going to be your victory %.

With a ratio of 3 to 5 the enemy has less than twice your numbers. By the “skill is everything” and “numbers are not important” statements you should have no problem to win. After losing all or almost all the matches one will probably come to the conclusion that numbers are important and you cant win stuff with much less numbers without having one of the next:

a) very unorganized enemy:

Enemy that only care about staying alive and will leave the zerg at any signal of danger for them, upscale, people that just want the exp or achievements, etc…

b)gear/build comp advantage :

You see that on hotjoins when people are running builds that are so bad that you can kill 2 or 3 if you are running the meta builds

final note:
=>not saying skill is useless just stating that numbers do really matter.

=>after tornado/lich form exploit fixes in 2 weeks numbers will be even more important

=> to get in a team queue 3v5 just get 5 players and make 2 stay at your base

It’s easier to win a game of standing in circles when you have more players standing on them, I’m sure most people would agree. Not sure what that’s going to prove.

Never heard anyone say it’s only skill that matters because it’s clearly not, but maybe you’ve had a different experience.

What Ikaros said. Tpvp isn’t even deathmatch, it’s friggen conquest so more people will always be an advantage there. With your very first statement thought you say how you spvp more than wvw, so I’m going to accept that as you having a very limited knowledge of how WvW fights usually go down. A well coordinated guild group that is skilled can wipe pugs blobs sometimes three times their size. Play wvw more than hotjoin before you try and make any silly challenges.

Pvp must really be hurting for people huh?

So you think that a place where you can have gear advantage, siege, use -40% condi foods and are able to run is harder than spvp where people have that same gear options and no stat advantage? Have you ever notice that the top 10% of the wvw players are in most cases the roamers that come from spvp? Even the most mindless meta hambow is probably better than half of the WvWers. I have played both spvp and wvw long enough to know that wvw is by far easier to play even when following a “elite” guild. Is all about facing bad enemy and having stat+food advantage.

I dont see how stack ,use stability and blast water/fire field can be harder than spvp. I do think that it require skill for the Commander because he is the only taking the active decisions, the others are just following stacking and using stuff when requested.

When it comes to WvW, the groups (big or small) whom are willing to stand in the red circles more will always lose. Doesn’t matter how skilled they are.

The only real skill or challenge I think falls on the commanders.. knowing when and where to strike, and knowing when and where to back down.

DeadlySynz.3471:

When it comes to WvW, the groups (big or small) whom are willing to stand in the red circles more will always lose. Doesn’t matter how skilled they are.

The only real skill or challenge I think falls on the commanders.. knowing when and where to strike, and knowing when and where to back down.

100% agree with you on the commander part

Top of how to win in WvW zerg fight.

1) Builds/Numbers.
2)Organization/Driver.
3)
4)
5) Skill.

Two different games modes that are irrelevant to compare to each other. Next challenge is for spvpers and wvwers to do speed dungeon runs ?

spvp?…not WvW…not even close.

So some are saying that the players who are doing small-scale are better at small-scale than those who are doing larger-scale? OHMAGAWD!

I wanna see 15/20 spvp player vs a gvg-guild fight in OS

xDudisx.5914:

So you think that a place where you can have gear advantage, siege, use -40% condi foods and are able to run is harder than spvp where people have that same gear options and no stat advantage? Have you ever notice that the top 10% of the wvw players are in most cases the roamers that come from spvp? Even the most mindless meta hambow is probably better than half of the WvWers. I have played both spvp and wvw long enough to know that wvw is by far easier to play even when following a “elite” guild. Is all about facing bad enemy and having stat+food advantage.

I dont see how stack ,use stability and blast water/fire field can be harder than spvp. I do think that it require skill for the Commander because he is the only taking the active decisions, the others are just following stacking and using stuff when requested.

As somebody already mentioned, get 15 top tpvp players and have them go up against a top GvG guild and then come talk to me about “stat advantages”. Even with the differences between asc and exotic (which are quite minimal) 25 people wiping 50 has more to do with skill than what gear they are wearing.

warriorjrd.8695:

xDudisx.5914:

So you think that a place where you can have gear advantage, siege, use -40% condi foods and are able to run is harder than spvp where people have that same gear options and no stat advantage? Have you ever notice that the top 10% of the wvw players are in most cases the roamers that come from spvp? Even the most mindless meta hambow is probably better than half of the WvWers. I have played both spvp and wvw long enough to know that wvw is by far easier to play even when following a “elite” guild. Is all about facing bad enemy and having stat+food advantage.

I dont see how stack ,use stability and blast water/fire field can be harder than spvp. I do think that it require skill for the Commander because he is the only taking the active decisions, the others are just following stacking and using stuff when requested.

As somebody already mentioned, get 15 top tpvp players and have them go up against a top GvG guild and then come talk to me about “stat advantages”. Even with the differences between asc and exotic (which are quite minimal) 25 people wiping 50 has more to do with skill than what gear they are wearing.

It is not just exo to ascended, you should consider: extra 250vit, 100 power/100condi from rank skill (not all the pugs are running that), 250 power from bloodlust, and the food -40%.

The group of 50 could kill 25 if running the same builds and items and be on ts.

The challenge is up, go do team queues 3 v 5 and get a good win % with less numbers if you think numbers and gear are irrelevant.

Would actually be nice to see the top 2 teams from Anets last tourneys destroying groups in a 10v10 (of course it should be inside an spvp map to avoid stat advantag of wvw). People on this topic talking kitten about spvp but “gvg” is not even a official game mode.

I played for one of the top guilds in WvW for a while. But they did non-english speaking raids. And I only speak english. Communication is important. Skill is still important.

IMO the average skill level of players in WvW has actually dropped in the last 6-12 months.

If you ever role with a top guild, if there are any left, you will see the difference. Wiping 80 with 30 is easy.

But stats do make a difference. So does composition.

If your lacking in any of those areas, that is, composition, stats, communication and skill you are far from running optimally. A few weak players in an otherwise good guild can lose you a fight.

I recently came back to the game. AFAIK there are no elite guilds left that have a “complete” expectations. But if there are they would be wiping map blobs over and over again.

xDudisx.5914:

warriorjrd.8695:

xDudisx.5914:

So you think that a place where you can have gear advantage, siege, use -40% condi foods and are able to run is harder than spvp where people have that same gear options and no stat advantage? Have you ever notice that the top 10% of the wvw players are in most cases the roamers that come from spvp? Even the most mindless meta hambow is probably better than half of the WvWers. I have played both spvp and wvw long enough to know that wvw is by far easier to play even when following a “elite” guild. Is all about facing bad enemy and having stat+food advantage.

I dont see how stack ,use stability and blast water/fire field can be harder than spvp. I do think that it require skill for the Commander because he is the only taking the active decisions, the others are just following stacking and using stuff when requested.

As somebody already mentioned, get 15 top tpvp players and have them go up against a top GvG guild and then come talk to me about “stat advantages”. Even with the differences between asc and exotic (which are quite minimal) 25 people wiping 50 has more to do with skill than what gear they are wearing.

It is not just exo to ascended, you should consider: extra 250vit, 100 power/100condi from rank skill (not all the pugs are running that), 250 power from bloodlust, and the food -40%.

The group of 50 could kill 25 if running the same builds and items and be on ts.

The challenge is up, go do team queues 3 v 5 and get a good win % with less numbers if you think numbers and gear are irrelevant.

Would actually be nice to see the top 2 teams from Anets last tourneys destroying groups in a 10v10 (of course it should be inside an spvp map to avoid stat advantag of wvw). People on this topic talking kitten about spvp but “gvg” is not even a official game mode.

I have already told you why 3 vs 5 is stupid, but you seemed to have ignored that. When it comes to conquest if you can have two extra guys you will obviously win. A great example of this is how WvW works. The server with the most coverage, not skill, wins the match. It would be the same for Tpvp if one team was down by two guys. When it comes to deathmatch, numbers, while they make a difference, are not as crucial. Anybody who has played wvw for a while has the guard stacks, it’s not that hard to get, you act as though it’s some kind of achievement when it really isn’t. Bloodlust too, everybody usually runs that, and you can get that in spvp too, so idk why you even brought it up.

You just really don’t know what you’re talking about at all, even if you say you do I can tell you don’t by what you type. The group of fifty could obviously wipe the smaller group, but explain to me why groups of 50 people who are all on TS consistently fail at killing coordinated guild groups. And I can see you’re another one of those egotistical spvpers that is all “GvG isn’t even a real game mode”, who cares? People still do it whether “real” or not, it doesn’t really make a difference.

If 15 tpvpers came to OS with full asc gear and everything so there was no stat advantages and fought one of the top GvG guilds, they would get smashed. Tpvpers are used to the small scale fighting around points, the majority of the builds they would think of using wouldn’t be viable in a GvG setting. I’m not saying Tpvpers are bad, but tpvp and GvG are two very different things, and just because you’re good at one, does not mean you’re even remotely good at the other, this works both ways.

Like you say right away you play spvp more than wvw and after what I’m reading here I can understand you have no idea about GvG guilds or wvw fights in general. Please go back to your “hotjoin” and make yourself feel good by killing randoms.

warriorjrd.8695:

xDudisx.5914:

warriorjrd.8695:

xDudisx.5914:

So you think that a place where you can have gear advantage, siege, use -40% condi foods and are able to run is harder than spvp where people have that same gear options and no stat advantage? Have you ever notice that the top 10% of the wvw players are in most cases the roamers that come from spvp? Even the most mindless meta hambow is probably better than half of the WvWers. I have played both spvp and wvw long enough to know that wvw is by far easier to play even when following a “elite” guild. Is all about facing bad enemy and having stat+food advantage.

I dont see how stack ,use stability and blast water/fire field can be harder than spvp. I do think that it require skill for the Commander because he is the only taking the active decisions, the others are just following stacking and using stuff when requested.

As somebody already mentioned, get 15 top tpvp players and have them go up against a top GvG guild and then come talk to me about “stat advantages”. Even with the differences between asc and exotic (which are quite minimal) 25 people wiping 50 has more to do with skill than what gear they are wearing.

It is not just exo to ascended, you should consider: extra 250vit, 100 power/100condi from rank skill (not all the pugs are running that), 250 power from bloodlust, and the food -40%.

The group of 50 could kill 25 if running the same builds and items and be on ts.

The challenge is up, go do team queues 3 v 5 and get a good win % with less numbers if you think numbers and gear are irrelevant.

Would actually be nice to see the top 2 teams from Anets last tourneys destroying groups in a 10v10 (of course it should be inside an spvp map to avoid stat advantag of wvw). People on this topic talking kitten about spvp but “gvg” is not even a official game mode.

I have already told you why 3 vs 5 is stupid, but you seemed to have ignored that. When it comes to conquest if you can have two extra guys you will obviously win. A great example of this is how WvW works. The server with the most coverage, not skill, wins the match. It would be the same for Tpvp if one team was down by two guys. When it comes to deathmatch, numbers, while they make a difference, are not as crucial. Anybody who has played wvw for a while has the guard stacks, it’s not that hard to get, you act as though it’s some kind of achievement when it really isn’t. Bloodlust too, everybody usually runs that, and you can get that in spvp too, so idk why you even brought it up.

You just really don’t know what you’re talking about at all, even if you say you do I can tell you don’t by what you type. The group of fifty could obviously wipe the smaller group, but explain to me why groups of 50 people who are all on TS consistently fail at killing coordinated guild groups. And I can see you’re another one of those egotistical spvpers that is all “GvG isn’t even a real game mode”, who cares? People still do it whether “real” or not, it doesn’t really make a difference.

If 15 tpvpers came to OS with full asc gear and everything so there was no stat advantages and fought one of the top GvG guilds, they would get smashed. Tpvpers are used to the small scale fighting around points, the majority of the builds they would think of using wouldn’t be viable in a GvG setting. I’m not saying Tpvpers are bad, but tpvp and GvG are two very different things, and just because you’re good at one, does not mean you’re even remotely good at the other, this works both ways.

Like you say right away you play spvp more than wvw and after what I’m reading here I can understand you have no idea about GvG guilds or wvw fights in general. Please go back to your “hotjoin” and make yourself feel good by killing randoms.

1) in spvp the matches are faster and you cant get stacks so easy like wvw wjere you can get your entire group with 25 from the past fights,
2) I played enoght wvw to know what I am talking about
3) You say I dont have knowledge about what I say, I could say the same for you. Use arguments no personal atks
4) Probably those 50 were not with the right build/comp.
5) Even in spvp where we dont have gear+stat+food advantage over the enemy the right build somethimes is enough to determine who wins imagine in wvw a game mode that is not meant to be balanced, numbers+right gear/build > anything.
6) If you say that the skill is involved in use the right build and have the right class I would agree.
7) Fun fact to cite: they are fixing the exploiting meteor+tornado and lich form+well, so giving more power to higher numbers

I was a member of DB and Kaineng.

xDudisx.5914:

warriorjrd.8695:

xDudisx.5914:

warriorjrd.8695:

xDudisx.5914:

As somebody already mentioned, get 15 top tpvp players and have them go up against a top GvG guild and then come talk to me about “stat advantages”. Even with the differences between asc and exotic (which are quite minimal) 25 people wiping 50 has more to do with skill than what gear they are wearing.

It is not just exo to ascended, you should consider: extra 250vit, 100 power/100condi from rank skill (not all the pugs are running that), 250 power from bloodlust, and the food -40%.

The group of 50 could kill 25 if running the same builds and items and be on ts.

The challenge is up, go do team queues 3 v 5 and get a good win % with less numbers if you think numbers and gear are irrelevant.

Would actually be nice to see the top 2 teams from Anets last tourneys destroying groups in a 10v10 (of course it should be inside an spvp map to avoid stat advantag of wvw). People on this topic talking kitten about spvp but “gvg” is not even a official game mode.

1) in spvp the matches are faster and you cant get stacks so easy like wvw wjere you can get your entire group with 25 from the past fights,
2) I played enoght wvw to know what I am talking about
3) You say I dont have knowledge about what I say, I could say the same for you. Use arguments no personal atks
4) Probably those 50 were not with the right build/comp.
5) Even in spvp where we dont have gear+stat+food advantage over the enemy the right build somethimes is enough to determine who wins imagine in wvw a game mode that is not meant to be balanced, numbers+right gear/build > anything.
6) If you say that the skill is involved in use the right build and have the right class I would agree.
7) Fun fact to cite: they are fixing the exploiting meteor+tornado and lich form+well, so giving more power to higher numbers

I was a member of DB and Kaineng.

Wow! 24 whole thousand kills!?!?! Watch out guys, we got a pro over here! Seriously though, everytime I offer you an example of how skill is involved, the enemy was just weak. Worst argument in the history of ever. You’re not good because the enemy wasn’t good, that’s essentially what you’re saying. So regardless of a guild’s tactics and regardless of how much experience they have with fights, they aren’t good because even when they wipe double their numbers, the enemy wasn’t good. Do you even know what trays of food are? The commander usually drops them and anybody can eat from it, so everybody uses food in wvw. Like I said, there may be stat differences, but not enough to explain how guilds routinely wipe larger forces. If you have 50 guys running full exo vs 25 guys running full asc, the 50 guys will have much higher damage output and still have the advantage. Skill>armour, stop kidding yourself.

If you want to look away from pugs blobs sure. Tell me how when two guilds collide, both using good set ups, both using voice comms, both using food, both having full asc, why does one consistently beat the other? It’s all about experience and tactics, gear has a minimal change on the outcome. Give a bad player full asc and give a good player full exotics and who do you think will win? Again Skill>armour, stop kidding yourself.

The picture you added actually made me laugh, as if I was supposed to be impressed by 24k kills especially on a necromancer, which is one the best tagging classes, and saying you’re from Kaineng, the 20th ranked server, where I’m sure there is absolutely no top NA GvG guilds, made me laugh even harder. Maybe you should transfer up to where the few remaining GvG guilds from NA are still around, which I believe is T2, you can see for yourself some proper tactics there. Or if you really wanted you could come to EU where GvG is a little bit more alive than NA and you could see more guilds.

It’s funny because not too long ago I ran into some arrogant Tpvper who was under the impression that he fought and wiped a top GvG guild, because that guild was on SFR, and because SFR was ranked #1, that guild must have been good. It’s funny how the “experience” you guys have with GvG’s is always with guilds that are nowhere near the top. I’m not trying to diss those guilds, but if you want to see or fight the best, do it, don’t follow or fight some random guild and think you just beat the best.

1)Again the guy trys a personal atk instead of using facts. I trasnfered from kaineng with my frieds to DB more than 1 year ago. I dont play only with necro I play with all the 8 classes. Actually necro is my almost only spvp guy.
2)Not everyone is running on big groups most of the time. Roaming you will get less kills than 1 guy spaming staff 1 with a guard
3) The difference is that in spvp you need to active time your skills and dodges to counter enemy. In wvw you are in the mid a people stacking droping tons of aoe. In the mid of 5 the reactions of 1 can change the fight. In a group of 20 you are facetanking stuff becuase of stats and the “tactic” blast a water field, so hard.
4)As you said the wvw server rank is based on coverage not skill.
5) DB was on the T2 a few weeks ago.
6) “arrogant spvpers” you are the one saying I know nothing just becuase I disagree with you.

xDudisx.5914:

1)Again the guy trys a personal atk instead of using facts. I trasnfered from kaineng with my frieds to DB more than 1 year ago. I dont play only with necro I play with all the 8 classes. Actually necro is my almost only spvp guy.
2)Not everyone is running on big groups most of the time. Roaming you will get less kills than 1 guy spaming staff 1 with a guard
3) The difference is that in spvp you need to active time your skills and dodges to counter enemy. In wvw you are in the mid a people stacking droping tons of aoe. In the mid of 5 the reactions of 1 can change the fight. In a group of 20 you are facetanking stuff becuase of stats and the “tactic” blast a water field, so hard.
4)As you said the wvw server rank is based on coverage not skill.
5) DB was on the T2 a few weeks ago.
6) “arrogant spvpers” you are the one saying I know nothing just becuase I disagree with you.

I’m saying you know nothing because they way you talk about GvG proves you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to GvG. 1 seconds hesitation on a dodge DOES actually get you killed, you think because you have more guys with you, you can just do whatever you want. While it may be more forgiving than a 1v1, timing you skills and dodges are vital to surviving in a GvG. I’m gona go out on a limb here and say you’ve never done a GvG before, if I’m right, please stop talking like you have even the slightest idea of what you’re talking about. I wouldn’t try and argue with you about Tpvp because I know i’m not an expert there, you should try the same.

Laughing at your 24k kills wasn’t an insult, just more the fact that it doesn’t prove what you were trying to say, that you have experience. If you actually had knowledge and experience in GvG’s you would have much more than 24k kills. It’s so unbearably shocking how you think you have experience when you don’t, again that’s not a “personal atk” as you would put it, just a fact. I know zip about Tpvp, and because of that I wouldn’t try and argue with you about Tpvp. So why are you pretending you know how guild fights work when you clearly don’t? Your third point about facetanking and blasting water fields…. I mean, I don’t even need “personal atks”, you make a mockery of yourself saying you know GvG then say something like that.

The main difference between Tpvp and GvG is the numbers obviously. As such, being in a guild requires you to work much more team oriented than Tpvp ever would. You have to work together and support each other in a GvG. It requires a different kind of skill and strategy than Tpvp, this is a fact. So I don’t care if you disagree, because a fact doesn’t need your consent to be true.

If it was so easy to do, and didn’t require any skill, there wouldn’t be such a large gap between top guilds and lower guilds. If wvw fights were so easy than the force with the larger numbers would always win, no questions asked, however that isn’t the case.

Anything with more than 5 players in this game becomes a stack fest. Because of how aoe works in this game. The “large gap” is that some have people with right build/class/gear and others dont or are just 1 guy that pops up a tag and get pugs to follow him. Also you think that your own opinion is a fact. If it was so serious it would be a official game mode.

Right GvG is as serious as people doing a jumping puzzle competition lols.

The topic is becoming a chat. The challenge is up waiting for someone to complete hahaha. If you wanna keep talking send a forum message.

xDudisx.5914:

Anything with more than 5 players in this game becomes a stack fest. Because of how aoe works in this game. The “large gap” is that some have people with right build/class/gear and others dont or are just 1 guy that pops up a tag and get pugs to follow him. Also you think that your own opinion is a fact. If it was so serious it would be a official game mode.

Right GvG is as serious as people doing a jumping puzzle competition lols.

I’m gona hope you’re trolling because of that picture. You clearly aren’t good at Tpvp either because all the people you face just have bad builds, I mean let’s be honest here, you would never rank in the 100s if you actually faced competent foes.

Do you like your logic, because that’s how you sound.

so I’m to assume that in every single open field fight I’ve ever been in, not a single one of those fights my opponents were using appropriate gear/food/skill builds? Thats what OP seems to believe, in which case I don’t think you understand how many WvW guilds have this down to a science, and how frequent these fights happen. After every reset we have 168+ hours of matchup duration before next reset, you honestly mean to tell me that you really believe that not a single one of the fights that happen during that allotted time were even in terms of stat augmentation/skill build/gear setup? That is utterly ridiculous.

p.s. ::
there are good gvg guilds in all tiers, the size of the fights just scale as you climb tiers and become more frequent.

Say I accept this “challenge”, who’s to say that the players I get matched up with will be equally skilled? If we roflstomp all 5 of these opponents by capping our home objective, and spawn camping them for the rest of the duration of the match what will that prove?

Brutal Augus.5917:

so I’m to assume that in every single open field fight I’ve ever been in, not a single one of those fights my opponents were using appropriate gear/food/skill builds? Thats what OP seems to believe, in which case I don’t think you understand how many WvW guilds have this down to a science, and how frequent these fights happen. After every reset we have 168+ hours of matchup duration before next reset, you honestly mean to tell me that you really believe that not a single one of the fights that happen during that allotted time were even in terms of stat augmentation/skill build/gear setup? That is utterly ridiculous.

p.s. ::
there are good gvg guilds in all tiers, the size of the fights just scale as you climb tiers and become more frequent.

Say I accept this “challenge”, who’s to say that the players I get matched up with will be equally skilled? If we roflstomp all 5 of these opponents by capping our home objective, and spawn camping them for the rest of the duration of the match what will that prove?

If you did accept his challenge and end up winning, he would probably just say that your opponents weren’t skilled and they were using the wrong build.

Easier said than done. Go ahead play 10 team queue tourneys win 50% of them with 3v5 and I will be convinced skill is more important than numbers.

xDudisx.5914:

Easier said than done. Go ahead play 10 team queue tourneys win 50% of them with 3v5 and I will be convinced skill is more important than numbers.

It seems you’re ignoring the other direction and can believe only the spvp thingy.

Go ahead and get 15/20 spvp players to fight a good gvg guild in OS.
Why in OS?
No guard stacks.
No Bloodlust stacks (in every gvg, I believe its a rule to not have any sigil-stacks before the round starts).
No Blood Lust + points (those annoying ruins-thingy ).

Or maybe there are some good gvg guilds who are up to challenge 20-25 spvp player with 15-20 to see if numbers make the difference

xDudisx.5914:

I spvp more than wvw (mostlly hotjoin/soloqueu). When I go to wvw there is always someone saying that “skill” is the only thing that matters and how they can beat higher numbers ( 99% unorganized group of pugs).

SO HERE IS THE CHALLENGE: go play spvp team queue with 3 players and see what is going to be your victory %.

With a ratio of 3 to 5 the enemy has less than twice your numbers. By the “skill is everything” and “numbers are not important” statements you should have no problem to win. After losing all or almost all the matches one will probably come to the conclusion that numbers are important and you cant win stuff with much less numbers without having one of the next:

a) very unorganized enemy:

Enemy that only care about staying alive and will leave the zerg at any signal of danger for them, upscale, people that just want the exp or achievements, etc…

b)gear/build comp advantage :

You see that on hotjoins when people are running builds that are so bad that you can kill 2 or 3 if you are running the meta builds

final note:
=>not saying skill is useless just stating that numbers do really matter.

=>after tornado/lich form exploit fixes in 2 weeks numbers will be even more important

=> to get in a team queue 3v5 just get 5 players and make 2 stay at your base

I think u are missing the concept here….
Tpvp = personal skill
WvW (GvG) = Team play

I for one am a WvW player, but me and my guild buddies often visit Tpvp to improve personal skills, and while we are at it, use WvW builds to do so which puts us at a HUGE disadvantage. We do this because it lets us understand the class better so we know exactly where the next spike damage will go, or where to stack for heals and condi removals when we return to WvW.

That being said, using those Tpvp builds in WvW is the same thing, it is a HUGE disadvantage, and although your personal skill is better than your average WvWer, your team play is by far the opposite.

Infact, many fights i have in Tpvp often turn into something where we lose the match, but we consistently manage to wipe the enemy without us actually getting downed.

Now, understand, the previous point proves the difference in the in the two game modes. Where WvW players excel in team cohesion and composition to wipe enemy teams, they have a lower personal skill level due to not having to stand in a circle capping alone, and it is the exact vice-versa for Tpvp player, they perform very well alone, but they lack team co-ordination when faced with a cohesive team (They have not practiced much with cohesive builds).

xDudisx.5914:

I=>after tornado/lich form exploit fixes in 2 weeks numbers will be even more important

First:
tornado is an exploit as much is stacking might or using an aura to get fury while channeling a skill.

Or again using LF during a channel.

If that is an exploit, using an ele is a major exploit because its what you do with lot of skill traits costantly (ex during a channell you switch to a +10% traited attunement).

Second:
Tornado doesn t have a role in roaming.

Third:
Thank to a boring game where sitting in a circle is the meaning of everything, we got our game ruined every patch more by balancing team that sees capture point as the meaning of everything in this world.

So we actually get extremely overpowered builds being untouched or even buffed, and struggling professions being nerfed because they are good at PvP.

The thief is the best example.
As you might read in PVP subforum, most successfull WWW thief roamers were totally uneffectuve in PvP.
That mostly because thief in WWW has lowest skill floor in game whereas in PvP is said to be challenging to use.
The difference in stats + food alone have a huge role.
PvP fights are way slower with way less damage, conditions and crowd control involved.

I would like for example to know why revealed debuff is shorter in WWW…
I still can’t figure out.

4) roaming is a better skill indicator than GvG.
Unfortunately 90% fights are unbalanced for numbers or even skills.
Most roamers are bad and only go for easy targets or try to troll.

Few times i had nice fights in ruins when servers still thought they were important.

xDudisx.5914:

So you think that a place where you can have gear advantage, siege, use -40% condi foods and are able to run is harder than spvp where people have that same gear options and no stat advantage? Have you ever notice that the top 10% of the wvw players are in most cases the roamers that come from spvp? Even the most mindless meta hambow is probably better than half of the WvWers. I have played both spvp and wvw long enough to know that wvw is by far easier to play even when following a “elite” guild. Is all about facing bad enemy and having stat+food advantage.

I dont see how stack ,use stability and blast water/fire field can be harder than spvp. I do think that it require skill for the Commander because he is the only taking the active decisions, the others are just following stacking and using stuff when requested.

You have a very one sided view of things. Yes, equipment and numbers is possibly unequal. But unequal goes both way. Sometimes you are on the side of advantage, sometimes you are hopelessly disadvantaged waaaaaaaaaaay beyond anything you can hope to find in spvp.

You seem to work under the rather naive belief that WvW necessarily equal mindless zerg. It can be that but for many it doesnt since they roam (solo or not) and that mean far greater risk than anything spvp can popose. The worst you will have in spvp is 1 vs 5 ppl with equal gear. In WvW it can be 1 vs X + sieges where you have no stacks and exotic gear (recently died) and they all have max guard buff and ascended gear. Try dealing with that mindlessly.

Zerg can be skillfull play too btw. It’s very different to run against door with no opposition and run into an equally large group. Maybe the problem is how you chose to play WvW…

SPVP limits tactics and strategies, also, in WvW, its not always organized groups vs pugs. When I used to play this game I was involved in plenty of matches when very often my guild would be running a group of 15-20 ish against other well known and organized guilds that were running somewhere around 35-map que size groups, and we still managed to win fights.

Those are the best fights in WvW and what made it worth playing. Until you experience this, you will just never understand it so even trying to explain is pointless.

In contrast, in SPVP you just dont have enough people to cover the scope of tactics available thus it ends up being far lower end on the necessary coordination then WvW. If A-net ever made a 25 vs 25 map or 40 vs 40 map where only pre-made groups (such as guilds and alliances of sorts) could que up and have matches other then conquest, it would be great, but this game seems to devolve to more and more LS so that will never happen even though they have all the necessary tools and framework at their fingertips. What a waste of potential.

I have a challenge for the WvW community, everyone evenly disperse throughout the top 8 servers in the game. As one fills, move to the next until they are all full and the rest are empty. Then we can quit hearing about Coverage Wars 2, and only have to talk about Timezone Wars 2.

xDudisx.5914:

I spvp more than wvw (mostlly hotjoin/soloqueu). When I go to wvw there is always someone saying that “skill” is the only thing that matters and how they can beat higher numbers ( 99% unorganized group of pugs).

SO HERE IS THE CHALLENGE: go play spvp team queue with 3 players and see what is going to be your victory %.

With a ratio of 3 to 5 the enemy has less than twice your numbers. By the “skill is everything” and “numbers are not important” statements you should have no problem to win. After losing all or almost all the matches one will probably come to the conclusion that numbers are important and you cant win stuff with much less numbers without having one of the next:

a) very unorganized enemy:

Enemy that only care about staying alive and will leave the zerg at any signal of danger for them, upscale, people that just want the exp or achievements, etc…

b)gear/build comp advantage :

You see that on hotjoins when people are running builds that are so bad that you can kill 2 or 3 if you are running the meta builds

final note:
=>not saying skill is useless just stating that numbers do really matter.

=>after tornado/lich form exploit fixes in 2 weeks numbers will be even more important

=> to get in a team queue 3v5 just get 5 players and make 2 stay at your base

Numbers matter. There is no doubt there. However you are comparing apples to oranges. 3 vs 5 is not the same as 30 vs 50. The ratio is the same but with that many people there is a lot of room for skill and build comps to over come the numbers advantage.

You seem to work under the rather naive belief that WvW necessarily equal mindless zerg. It can be that but for many it doesnt since they roam (solo or not) and that mean far greater risk than anything spvp can popose.

I did not say roaming is bad. Actually I was mostly talking about people that blob around in their full bunkers and think that what they are doing is skillful and hard .In my opinion roamers are the light in the end of tunnel for wvw. But I disagree with you when you say it has more risk. You can face more enemy in wvw BUT you are not “forced” to defend a point. I sometimes play full zerker thief in wvw and find it easier than in spvp. If things go bad you can escape almost everytime with shadowstep or stleath and reset a fight if you get outnumbered by a lot.

The thief is the best example.
As you might read in PVP subforum, most successfull WWW thief roamers were totally uneffectuve in PvP.

The main difference is that in spvp if you go stealth and reset the fight and run away you are losing the fight becuase of points. In wvw as long as you are alive is ok. The spvp meta is the sw+dg evade spam while wvw is heavy stealth.

xDudisx.5914:

You seem to work under the rather naive belief that WvW necessarily equal mindless zerg. It can be that but for many it doesnt since they roam (solo or not) and that mean far greater risk than anything spvp can popose.

I did not say roaming is bad. Actually I was mostly talking about people that blob around in their full bunkers and think that what they are doing is skillful and hard .In my opinion roamers are the light in the end of tunnel for wvw. But I disagree with you when you say it has more risk. You can face more enemy in wvw BUT you are not “forced” to defend a point. I sometimes play full zerker thief in wvw and find it easier than in spvp. If things go bad you can escape almost everytime with shadowstep or stleath and reset a fight if you get outnumbered by a lot.

Might be true with some professions but not all. I for one like to roam (and spvp) with my staff ele and fleeing isn’t exactly easy. The thief is probaly hte most extreme example illustrating the difference between spvp and wvw landscape.

Opinions differ. Sadly this will only be truly settled when ArenaNet releases actual GvG & Deathmatch modes in an organized instance environment. Also, GvG is now a loosely used term from Guild Wars™ which referred to: http://youtu.be/EFWvdyCk1Uo (imo the epitome of esports). What most WvW’ers call GvG now is actually just a mass death match between two guilds (still somewhat a guild vs guild but most likely never going to be a real bragging right or game mode). The closest to a real GvG game mode in GW2 were these: http://youtu.be/QWhMz_Utuu4 (close but no cigar). Anyways, until the day these modes actually come, kids!

Demonoid.1974:

Opinions differ. Sadly this will only be truly settled when ArenaNet releases actual GvG & Deathmatch modes in an organized instance environment. Also, GvG is now a loosely used term from Guild Wars™ which referred to: http://youtu.be/EFWvdyCk1Uo (imo the epitome of esports). What most WvW’ers call GvG now is actually just a mass death match between two guilds (still somewhat a guild vs guild but most likely never going to be a real bragging right or game mode). The closest to a real GvG game mode in GW2 were these: http://youtu.be/QWhMz_Utuu4 (close but no cigar). Anyways, until the day these modes actually come, kids!

I fail to see how it would “truly” be settled when ANet releases actual GvG (so far, they won’t). GvG isn’t roaming or 5 vs 5. It is not better or worse, it’s different. It’s a completely different game in fact.

Personally I can’t stand someone hijacking my brain and leaving me the “skill” and “freedom” to obey a command that was shouted 3 times in a TS environment. I hate that. Seriously. GvG isn’t for all people and not because of skill issues…

The people who talk about “skill” in wvw are most likely pvpers.
Guh.

In spvp you need to capture 3 little rings to win. But if you hold 2 all the time you still win. One player must to stay to hold, so the 3 men team only operate with 2 on the second circle. This is same why always full servers win, it doesnt matter they lose every single fight, they always have 5 players to capture things while others fight

If you think that you can freely leave an objective to be capped in wvw because you may lose the fight, contrary to sPvP nodes then you are wrong.
I switched from wvw solo/havoc roaming to s/tPvP. Iv’e played In T1 NA, T1 EU wvw, both places, roaming matters.

Wvw matchups is nothing but a long, grueling pvp match which has been made more casual friendly by allowing more mistakes (losing objectives) and made it easier to recover from the mistakes. However both modes are conquest (hold node to get points/2sec, vs hold camp/tower/keep/SMC to get points/15min)

Both modes have PvE content (lord in foefire, creature in forest vs npc guards in camps/towers/keeps).

The only difference between the two is the time the matches span. One being 15 minutes max, other being 168 hours.

Is wvw easier? No. Why? Because the coordination needed to unite up to 400+ players on any given moment for 168 hours to ensure you get the best tick throughout the day AND night is much harder then getting 5 players to show up for 2-3 hours a day to practice.

Is sPvP players better (skill wise)?
Not necessarily. They will be better at an individual level, and they will certainly be better in smaller number when you add an objective into the mix. However in terms of sheer ability to cooperate in order to kill the enemy, wvw players are more likely better

so TS wanna say that wvw suck and pvp is real game.

Skill matter everywhere.

And u can’tkittencompare situation of 30vs50 in wvw and 3v5 in pvp, complete different goals, roasters pretty much sating that is bad knowlede in one of this game modes.

Yes there are tones of lowskilled blobbers in wvw.

While pvp got over 5000+ ragekids. If u play pvp and haven’t heard another sex joke about your moma then u wasn’t playing good enough.

Still the highest skill of pvp was always on this forum section —-—→> https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/matchups

Prysin.8542:

If you think that you can freely leave an objective to be capped in wvw because you may lose the fight, contrary to sPvP nodes then you are wrong.
I switched from wvw solo/havoc roaming to s/tPvP. Iv’e played In T1 NA, T1 EU wvw, both places, roaming matters.

Wvw matchups is nothing but a long, grueling pvp match which has been made more casual friendly by allowing more mistakes (losing objectives) and made it easier to recover from the mistakes. However both modes are conquest (hold node to get points/2sec, vs hold camp/tower/keep/SMC to get points/15min)

Both modes have PvE content (lord in foefire, creature in forest vs npc guards in camps/towers/keeps).

The only difference between the two is the time the matches span. One being 15 minutes max, other being 168 hours.

Is wvw easier? No. Why? Because the coordination needed to unite up to 400+ players on any given moment for 168 hours to ensure you get the best tick throughout the day AND night is much harder then getting 5 players to show up for 2-3 hours a day to practice.

Is sPvP players better (skill wise)?
Not necessarily. They will be better at an individual level, and they will certainly be better in smaller number when you add an objective into the mix. However in terms of sheer ability to cooperate in order to kill the enemy, wvw players are more likely better

I agree with all you said above. However, to be honest, I don’t necessarily see why pvp players will be better at individual fights. It depends if we are talking about someone who zerg all the time or someone who solo roam. It would be very hard to argue your case in the later case IMO. WvW simply offer a greater range of play-style.

Apples and Oranges as everyone is pointing out. Roaming in WvW revolves around avoiding getting significantly out numbered. I compromise the dueling aspect of my builds to gain this ability so it is no magical wonder when up against a dedicated sPvP build built to hold an area I am going to be at a disadvantage. Course I probably die a lot less over time since I can actually avoid/run from a zerg. This is why WvW dueling builds and roaming builds are very different.

vpn users , local net inside the arenanet network , better computer , gaming mouses / keyboards give advantages in spvp .

so, there is not any spvp fair fight . there is always the winner and the defeated player . the same situation is in wvw with some different parameters .

Prysin.8542:

Is sPvP players better (skill wise)?
Not necessarily. They will be better at an individual level, and they will certainly be better in smaller number when you add an objective into the mix. However in terms of sheer ability to cooperate in order to kill the enemy, wvw players are more likely better

Some weeks ago when I went to WvW noticed people talking in map chat that there was a group of pvp players, all of them with dragon finish, running amuck, harassing the militia.

Those players were scared of course, they had beaten them a few times and their finisher says they are hardcore pvp players so they were giving position about said group and how to avoid them. That’s when I asked my party to rally because we would take the fight to that pvp group, a proper 5v5.

Conclusion: One of us was spiked during the battle while we spiked them all. We had 4 standing victorious in the end.
They tried to use pvp tactics against us, which didn’t worked quite well. We used our small roaming squad tactics against them and was more than enough to counter theirs.