“The WvW tick timer has been reduced from 15 minutes to 5 minutes.
Objective Points per Tick (PPT) has been rebalanced to support the faster ticks.
Camps—2 points
Towers—4 points
Keeps—8 points
Castle—12 points
This results in slightly more total war score earned from objectives.”
I mean its pretty obvious what this means. But I’ll spell it out anyways:
RI is 5 minutes. THis means that as soon as something is capped, it automatically gives points to the attacker. There is even less incentive to defend something now. Better yet, there is no incentive for defenders to delay a k-train an extra minute so they prevent them from getting points (since they had plenty of time to recap after).
Why do you do these things? If I didn’t know any better you want wvw to be nothing but blobs and k-trains. You want guild groups ranging form 10-30 players to be the ‘roamers’ and ‘independents’ on the battlefield. You want everyone else to join the blob under 1 tag. One TAG to rule them all, One TAG to find them, One TAG to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.
If that’s not true…the only other reason I can see that you did this was to make people bad at math believe that points-per-kill looks like it really does matter now. Make people believe that killing yaks and other players really makes them special
TAKE A RIDE ON THE CHOO CHOO TRAIN.
CHOOOO CHOOOOOOOOOO
I kill you in one gunflame, or I kill you in two.
The Tiny Yuno Sniper of Ebay [EBAY]
Explain how the fact that the 5 minutes timer means that attackers are guaranteed points on an objective lowers the incentive to defend. For me that increases it, as I don’t want them gaining any points. Before when it was near the start of the timer people often didn’t care if something was flipped because they could wait 5 minutes, flip it back and the other world wouldn’t gain any score from it. That isn’t the case now, so now it actually promotes wanting to defend your structures and camps
Well, I mean in the old system if something not upgraded got attacked at like say, 12:30, we would opt to flip it back some time before 0:00 instead of trying at all. Oftentimes if there was just a giant karma train rolling through your stuff, that’s all you can really do. Now, we can deny some points for delaying 5 minutes, or maybe 10 minutes. A defense attempt of the sort in the old system would have been futile or even counterintuitive. (If we hold for 10 minutes, the enemy secures it for the tick). And if we lose people, we lose even more points due to PPK and ultimately that makes it worse than not trying at all. Assuming we cared about score— I admit there’s a tendency to justify flipping it back. =p
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
Well, I mean in the old system if something not upgraded got attacked at like say, 12:30, we would opt to flip it back some time before 0:00 instead of trying at all. Oftentimes if there was just a giant karma train rolling through your stuff, that’s all you can really do. Now, we can deny some points for delaying 5 minutes, or maybe 10 minutes. A defense attempt of the sort in the old system would have been futile or even counterintuitive. (If we hold for 10 minutes, the enemy secures it for the tick). And if we lose people, we lose even more points due to PPK and ultimately that makes it worse than not trying at all. Assuming we cared about score— I admit there’s a tendency to justify flipping it back. =p
Still promotes K-training more than ever, which is the main topic of the thread. I’ll give you props for the other bits though.
I kill you in one gunflame, or I kill you in two.
The Tiny Yuno Sniper of Ebay [EBAY]
More manpower means the faster you’ll flip stuff if you have little resistance still and so you’ll still see the higher ticks, esp at night when several maps get flipped, from the more populated server anyway.
Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.
Its still easier to defend a t3 keep than a t1 keep, so servers will try to hold onto the area which they can defend easily. Getting ppt per cap will make ninja caps more useful. Instead of 5 roamers flipping a keep, only to have a massive guild zerg come and flip it be right before the tick.
Until A-net adds the 2hr Skirmishes and Victory Point system, coming back against a server that night caps will be impossible. So increase the incentives to fight instead of win the overall match a good thing. Wvwers love to fight more then play for ppt. The relinking of wvw server will happen soon too.
Ele – Tarnished Coast
“Quoth the raven nevermore”
Platinum Scout: 300% MF
It is impossible to make a game that is inclusive and also not make it easier with greater numbers. Blobs and K-Trains work and they will always work because you cannot penalise based on numbers either.
It is impossible to make a game that is inclusive and also not make it easier with greater numbers. Blobs and K-Trains work and they will always work because you cannot penalise based on numbers either.
it is not that hard as many think, but players would just rumble about it, most gw2 players dont like effort for rewards.
Anet made a game for real life skrits.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
A couple points…with the timer only at 5 mins, defenders can make an effort to hold onto an objective for just a bit longer and get points, whereas before if they had taken the keep originally at the 14 min mark, were immediately attacked by a larger blob, managed to defend it for 10 mins before losing it to the attackers who then downed the lord just in time for the tick, then the smaller group of defenders get no PPT even for holding a keep for 10 mins. Now, they would get 2 smaller ticks rather than none. There is a guarantee that they get points for the original capture of the keep even if they end up not being able to hold onto it for long because a bigger enemy blob is right behind them. This actually takes away some of the PPT advantage from the bigger blob who can’t immediately cap it for all the points in a 15 minute timer.
Also, think about how long it takes to flip a camp versus how long it takes to flip a tower. If you split your forces to take 2 camps instead of that 1 tower, you’d get the same points in a lot less time. Again, the advantage goes to having smaller roaming groups, because it takes more time for one blob to make the rounds, where many smaller groups could take more objectives within the 5 minute timer.
A couple points…with the timer only at 5 mins, defenders can make an effort to hold onto an objective for just a bit longer and get points, whereas before if they had taken the keep originally at the 14 min mark, were immediately attacked by a larger blob, managed to defend it for 10 mins before losing it to the attackers who then downed the lord just in time for the tick, then the smaller group of defenders get no PPT even for holding a keep for 10 mins. Now, they would get 2 smaller ticks rather than none. There is a guarantee that they get points for the original capture of the keep even if they end up not being able to hold onto it for long because a bigger enemy blob is right behind them. This actually takes away some of the PPT advantage from the bigger blob who can’t immediately cap it for all the points in a 15 minute timer.
Conversely if a blob rolled up to your T1 keep with 12 minutes left till the tick you could let them flip it then flip it back before the tick and the blob got nothing out of it.
When you are drastically outmanned, as in one server has two 30-40 man blobs running around the border lands and EB you will never be able to hold vs a sustained assault. The best thing to diminish what they were doing is let them free cap and back cap everything with smaller groups.
Example: DL flips an entire border in 45 mins. 3 ticks happened during that time under the old system.
Tick 1: 3 towers, 3 camps and 1 keep
Tick 2: 2 towers, 2 camps and 1 keep
Tick 3 3 towers, 2 camps 0 keeps.
Under the new system they always get a portion of the tick for what they flipped due to RI. So when they flipped a keep, assuming it took 10 mins to flip back they got what is about 0.6 of a keep and so during the first tick they would most likely have 1.2-1.8 keeps, this is most likely to be the same for the other ticks.
A large blob actually gets more PPT out of this system because it guarantee’s 1/3rd of the points of an old tick regardless of if it is back capped. With keeps and the inability to hide mesmers or small groups with thieves they take a little longer to back cap as well giving yet more of an advantage and being closer to 2/3rds of the points of an old tick.
I’m pretty sure the blob gave birth to itself, and there is no helping it. Its a fact of human nature to band together into a larger force, especially when the other side is doing the same thing. So regardless of whether or not Anet wants blobs, theyre not going away.
Team Deathmatch for PvP – Raise the AoE cap for WvW – More unique events for PvE
A couple points…with the timer only at 5 mins, defenders can make an effort to hold onto an objective for just a bit longer and get points, whereas before if they had taken the keep originally at the 14 min mark, were immediately attacked by a larger blob, managed to defend it for 10 mins before losing it to the attackers who then downed the lord just in time for the tick, then the smaller group of defenders get no PPT even for holding a keep for 10 mins. Now, they would get 2 smaller ticks rather than none. There is a guarantee that they get points for the original capture of the keep even if they end up not being able to hold onto it for long because a bigger enemy blob is right behind them. This actually takes away some of the PPT advantage from the bigger blob who can’t immediately cap it for all the points in a 15 minute timer.
Conversely if a blob rolled up to your T1 keep with 12 minutes left till the tick you could let them flip it then flip it back before the tick and the blob got nothing out of it.
When you are drastically outmanned, as in one server has two 30-40 man blobs running around the border lands and EB you will never be able to hold vs a sustained assault. The best thing to diminish what they were doing is let them free cap and back cap everything with smaller groups.
Example: DL flips an entire border in 45 mins. 3 ticks happened during that time under the old system.
Tick 1: 3 towers, 3 camps and 1 keep
Tick 2: 2 towers, 2 camps and 1 keep
Tick 3 3 towers, 2 camps 0 keeps.
Under the new system they always get a portion of the tick for what they flipped due to RI. So when they flipped a keep, assuming it took 10 mins to flip back they got what is about 0.6 of a keep and so during the first tick they would most likely have 1.2-1.8 keeps, this is most likely to be the same for the other ticks.
A large blob actually gets more PPT out of this system because it guarantee’s 1/3rd of the points of an old tick regardless of if it is back capped. With keeps and the inability to hide mesmers or small groups with thieves they take a little longer to back cap as well giving yet more of an advantage and being closer to 2/3rds of the points of an old tick.
Hmm…yeah, it would depend on the time remaining on the tick as to how the points would be spread. Mostly, it seems that after a blob takes a keep, they would generally get the 15 minute tick before we could take it back, since it takes a bit of time to break down 2 walls/gates and then take down the lord, and there are usually a few lingering defenders.
After considering, in another thread, how the doubling of the points per kill (now at 2) makes killing one enemy the same as a 5-minute camp tick, it makes it riskier for your team members to run around alone, be out dueling, or run in a small roaming group and get taken out by a larger group or blob. Yeah, I think blobs are still here to stay.
Keep in mind this is the first in a series of changes to the scoring system. This change actually promotes defending and spreading out, in a way yes it also encourages more capping but it makes groups have to split their forces to maximize gains. This also makes roamers and havoc teams much more useful.
Blobbing/zerging is always going to exist because WvW is based on LARGE scale combat. Many people enjoy large fights.
I say what needs to be said, get used to it.
Honesty is not insulting, stupidity is.
>Class Balance is a Joke<
Conversely if a blob rolled up to your T1 keep with 12 minutes left till the tick you could let them flip it then flip it back before the tick and the blob got nothing out of it.
When you are drastically outmanned, as in one server has two 30-40 man blobs running around the border lands and EB you will never be able to hold vs a sustained assault. The best thing to diminish what they were doing is let them free cap and back cap everything with smaller groups.
Example: DL flips an entire border in 45 mins. 3 ticks happened during that time under the old system.
Tick 1: 3 towers, 3 camps and 1 keep
Tick 2: 2 towers, 2 camps and 1 keep
Tick 3 3 towers, 2 camps 0 keeps.
Under the new system they always get a portion of the tick for what they flipped due to RI. So when they flipped a keep, assuming it took 10 mins to flip back they got what is about 0.6 of a keep and so during the first tick they would most likely have 1.2-1.8 keeps, this is most likely to be the same for the other ticks.
A large blob actually gets more PPT out of this system because it guarantee’s 1/3rd of the points of an old tick regardless of if it is back capped. With keeps and the inability to hide mesmers or small groups with thieves they take a little longer to back cap as well giving yet more of an advantage and being closer to 2/3rds of the points of an old tick.
This. I didn’t think explaining to this degree was necessary…..but you know….WVSW COMMUNITY. you should make the OP next time.
This change actually promotes defending and spreading out, in a way yes it also encourages more capping but it makes groups have to split their forces to maximize gains. This also makes roamers and havoc teams much more useful
This is true and yet it is false conjecture because the exact same can be said for offense. It promotes k-training and attacking to the same extent as you describe….however the other points come into play and we see k-training and attacking actually come out ontop from the change. That’s the point of the thread.
What you are describing in ‘increased motivation’ is a placebo effect. There are actually no forces at play that increase a roamer’s ppt (other than the ppk provided they are good fighters) if they just defend. If the roamer is just on offense however….yes it will increase their ppt which is one of the main points of the thread.
I kill you in one gunflame, or I kill you in two.
The Tiny Yuno Sniper of Ebay [EBAY]
Hmm…yeah, it would depend on the time remaining on the tick as to how the points would be spread. Mostly, it seems that after a blob takes a keep, they would generally get the 15 minute tick before we could take it back, since it takes a bit of time to break down 2 walls/gates and then take down the lord, and there are usually a few lingering defenders.
After considering, in another thread, how the doubling of the points per kill (now at 2) makes killing one enemy the same as a 5-minute camp tick, it makes it riskier for your team members to run around alone, be out dueling, or run in a small roaming group and get taken out by a larger group or blob. Yeah, I think blobs are still here to stay.
Yeah the increasing of PPK is nice and will probably help roamers out but have we really thought of the side effects of this?
It will promote ganking, why take a fair fight when you can run off and 2v1 some other guy.
It will also, encourage people to play whatever overpowered and disgustingly strong roaming builds there are out there. I can see a big increase in condition mesmers, thieves (power and condi) and druids. Classes that have builds that are near uncatchable with very strong burst, engineers are probably going to be very common too due to gyro stomping while running away.
I think you’re right when you say blobs are here to stay while having a big numbers advantage gives such a huge advantage. If the scoring adjustments come in where each day is segmented and score is based on position in that segment regardless of how dominant you are it might lessen the impact of blobs. They will still dominate that segment but you won’t lose a match up because for 4 hours some national server has 30 on 3 maps blobbing everything against half the numbers from the other servers.
People are going to play they want regardless of your idea of how they should.
There will always be blobs and K-trains because there are a ton of player who could give two flying monkey butts about builds/comps/consumables. They just want to run for a few hours after work or on their down time. They are the Militia on our servers, the guys and girls that keep the fire burning. Accept it and move on, stop trying to corral them into your ideas.
They outnumber you and me and every other person that plays “For da fites”.
People are going to play they want regardless of your idea of how they should.
There will always be blobs and K-trains because there are a ton of player who could give two flying monkey butts about builds/comps/consumables. They just want to run for a few hours after work or on their down time. They are the Militia on our servers, the guys and girls that keep the fire burning. Accept it and move on, stop trying to corral them into your ideas.
They outnumber you and me and every other person that plays “For da fites”.
I think a lot of the reason blobs/karma trains exist is because roaming isn’t fun anymore when you fight nothing but condi mesmer/thieves.
This. Seems all I ever see are condi chronos. No matter the amount of condi cleanse I take, it doesn’t matter, they always wittle you down while in stealth, with clones and condi. Seriously annoying build to fight, since they also have 22k/3k.
