A long term issue that should've been solved

A long term issue that should've been solved

in WvW

Posted by: Prysin.8542

Prysin.8542

It is getting kind of tiresome, that only 4-5 classes is viable for zerging.

NOW. there is a expansion on the way, but nothing in it struck me as “universally applicable” skills.

Ranger will have stability sharing, condi cleansing and high healing, but less stability then guardian. And whilst condi cleanse is fairly similar, it is negated by the need for certain utilities for self sustain.

Now, Soulbeast will be amazing for havoc/5 man groups. Due to performing similar role to guardian but with high amounts of out-of-combat mobility on low CDs.. which is essential for todays Havoc/5man groups. If you cannot GTFO on a dime, you get rekt.

Mesmer, Thief, engineer will still be small party roaming. But i dont even see niche uses in zergs.

Thief/Deadeye can do high spike damage, but become rooted. So you might aswell bring a longbow ranger. As the LB ranger can also do insane single target bursts. Have a AOE, and can share stability, protection and resistance (automatically better then thief). So in a zerg role, deadeye is worse then Ranger/soulbeast in almost every instance.

Mesmer will be really good in roaming. But will only hold “portal/veil bot” functions in zergs… yes their wells can work, but why would you bother speccing for that when a spellbreaker or revenant will do the same, better.

Engineer is, as usual, going to be a “high skill level” class. Only a very experienced engineer player will be able to provide utility. Yes, engineer DO have utility for zergs, but it takes skill to make it work (kinda like current ranger. Its a far cry from being cookie cutter)

What happened to the “play however you want” philosophy?

Soulbeast is a step in the right direction. You can take a couple of soulbeasts without sacrificing the zergs sustain too much. But you cannot take much of any of the other classes without them turning into total rallybots in a 50+ group.

I understand the need for a change in META, to maintain longevity of the game mode. But why, why oh why, could you not have tried to add the “meta tilting” abilities to the classes that is least wanted. Create some variety, rather then shoehorn everyone into playing Necro/Scourge, Spellbreaker, Guardian, Elementalist or Revenant…

Whilst in PvE, the META AFAIK is kinda opposite… you want rangers/druids for raids, you want a mesmer, you want a engineer or thief for DPS or condi… but you dont really need a warrior or revenant atm..

This imbalance has gone on for 5 years. you had the last expansion to “fix it”.. you didnt. This expansion wont “fix it” either.

When will your mantra of “play as you wish” apply to all game modes, and not just solo play in PvE and sPvP?

Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU

A long term issue that should've been solved

in WvW

Posted by: Strider Pj.2193

Strider Pj.2193

Meta is player created and is there for player comfort. Each class has its place in WvW. And each class has a game mode where it is part of player created META.

If the META bores you, switch what you do in WvW for a while. Havoc some, roam, build to beat the META. It’s funny when you hit someone who is expecting condi and you hit them with power.

If META is boring: change it.

A long term issue that should've been solved

in WvW

Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

I have high hopes that players will be able to come up with more zerg-suitable-classes we can currently imagine. Let’s just first wait out the expansion, try new elites and other changes it brings, and then start to argue about which class is viable.

A long term issue that should've been solved

in WvW

Posted by: Chorazin.4107

Chorazin.4107

As far as the zerg is concerned, bring whatever you like. The public pug blob tag isnt going to care that you are on your Turret Engi or a minion master necro.

Comp groups and 15man guilds though will always be this way. It’s about optimising classes/gearing and specs, therefore classes will miss out. You reach a point where there is no point bringing class y when you can just add more of class x.

Chorazin
[lion]~ riperonis
[tRex]

A long term issue that should've been solved

in WvW

Posted by: Prysin.8542

Prysin.8542

Meta is player created and is there for player comfort. Each class has its place in WvW. And each class has a game mode where it is part of player created META.

If the META bores you, switch what you do in WvW for a while. Havoc some, roam, build to beat the META. It’s funny when you hit someone who is expecting condi and you hit them with power.

If META is boring: change it.

ZERG META is not something one person, or a small group can change.

One player can change the roaming meta, if they steamroll almost everyone they meet.
One group can change the havoc/5 man roaming meta if they steamroll almost everyone they meet.

ZERG META will not change much, even if 1-2 guilds have a different meta. The reason is pugs. They are teh boon and curse of WvW. We need them to keep things going, organized guild play simply isnt prevalent enough to maintain activity outside of stacking 5-7 servers with only organized guilds in different timezones. Our playerbase is too small for WvW to survive without pugs.

However, Pugs will not change their gear due to one enemy being hard. They will rather run and hide in a tower/keep/choke then bother thinking up a solution. This goes for many commanders too. Simply put, the quality of commanders when it comes to abstract thinking, isnt that great. Some are great, most are not.

My biggest grief when it comes to commanders taking charge and trying to change the ZERG META came up during the last open BETA weekend. We met a group that ran spellbreakers + scourge. Spellbreakers demolished our boons, scourge destroyed us with condi spam out of this world (i saw close to constant 1500 torment damage per movement, that is insane to deal with)
Guess what, we could have tested new METAs WITHOUT ANY PERSONAL COST. The characters were free, the only cost was TIME.

And every push, my Soulbeast was the ONLY class to make it through their zerg. Why? Because i tested out the new healing stance. Which removed and HEALED 2 condies per second. My suggestion, after being wiped 8 times by the same group, by the same method, was for a few ppl to make a Soulbeast and TRY. just TRY.
It was free, easy to test. We had communication with the other servers commander so we could test 50v50 pug zerging meta pre X-pack….

And i explained to these people, that the boost from Soulbeast was a NON-BOON. Thus spellbreaker couldnt strip it, and due to the healing effect, it would offset some of the other damage being taken. It would give us a few seconds of “freedom” and ability to land damage before being nuked with CC and condies again.

No response. NONE. instead 3/8 commanders along one of the build-crafters on my server decided to try a few more pushes, which resulted in, at best 15 kills for our side.

Maybe i am just smarter then these people when it comes to troubbleshooting (its part of my RL work, so i got experience in analyzing problems). Maybe i see the solution to what was the problem, faster. Or maybe i simply enjoy testing new things more then they do. Whatever the reason. If you cannot make the public commanders test things when it is free, easy and effortless. How do you expect a single player to EVER change the meta when it costs time, money and possibly gems to unlock character slots etc…??

Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU

A long term issue that should've been solved

in WvW

Posted by: Strider Pj.2193

Strider Pj.2193

You are correct that one person can’t change it. I’ve found like minded people and our group runs 6-8 (with upwards of 10) successfully with a power/condi/ class mix.