Guild Wars 2

So as many know the way the points currently work supports "night capping" This is well known and used by most top servers. Many people like myself have voiced the concerns about what would happen once we launch into week long matches, dreading the time would come.

Now here we are, knee deep in the week long matches, all my predictions where right even down to how many points the enemy would lead with.

Some pictures to illustrate the problems.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Hobs5h.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/dS4hEh.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/uitwSh.jpg[/img]
These 3 pictures are taken during the first weekend of the 1 week matches, at this point the WvWvW had even numbers and we took the lead, we held it until sunday night where players had to go to sleep as they have to work/go to school the next day.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/COD9Wh.jpg[/img]
This picture is taken on tuesday, now we begin to see the effects of a server capping 100% of 4 borderlands each night for 6-7 hours.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/fIyzOh.jpg[/img]

Now this final image is taken today, 10 minutes ago, as of writing this Far Shiverpeak is in the lead with 280 potential points and 65% of the map, this is soon after peaktime for us, a gradual fall away of players will begin to happen and the Viznuah Square will capture 100% of the map later tonight. This pattern repeats itself over and over and over. But its an uphill battle that cannot be won, why? Because during the night when we lose everything to 1 server there are next to no players in wvwvw, at peaktime all servers have approximatly the same numbers of players currently playing, this means much more resistance. And figthing from a 100% map hold you need to defend 2-3 posistions on any given borderland, which means easy defending, no roaming or anything just defend fully upgraded keeps and let the point lead climb.

Is this fun for anyone involved? I doubt Viznuah Square likes being ahead by 100k points, and I for sure dont enjoy being 100k points behind. For anyother server then Far Shiverpeak we would have to fight 1 week, then go back to winning, but Far Shiverpeak are cursed with being stuck in an eternal battle against Viznuah Square. Desolation gets relived by Riverside and gets to have 1 week of fun, us? Wake up everyday and login to a 100% green map and a spawn camp. Fun? I dont think so.

Even tho this post might seem whiny its not, im telling the tale of how it is right now for the second best EU server.

Is there a way to fix this? I do not know. And seeing that its not my job to do arena net’s job I will leave it in their hands, hopefully they will resolve the issue, because frankly, if WvWvW is the end game and the kitten is as it is right now, I might just have to put the game on the shelf for awhile, and seeing as its free2play that wouldent be so bad.

Enjoy the arenanet standing that the community will figure it out.
yea, not playing and absolutly not making it a job playing a game.

its a fix but its called new design and fix of the timetable where nightcapping shouldnt be possible.
Reasons are simple, why should I put money into event when I need to make the game a job to keep it there?

Nightcapping needs to go away as simple as that.

First full week and 2/3rds of the servers will be faced with losing, these people are trying to rationalize defeat.

I doubt these people will make it to the end of week two so by then everyone should be able to grasp that the game will not shut off at midnight because its bed time or some other rediculous notion and these people will already know that losing is the only time you get to learn anything.

Davion.8754:

First full week and 2/3rds of the servers will be faced with losing, these people are trying to rationalize defeat.

I doubt these people will make it to the end of week two so by then everyone should be able to grasp that the game will not shut off at midnight because its bed time or some other rediculous notion and these people will already know that losing is the only time you get to learn anything.

By what you write I see that you are on a low ranked server not facing any of these problems, as such I will discard your text as utter nonsense.

nilco.8457:

By what you write I see that you are on a low ranked server not facing any of these problems, as such I will discard your text as utter nonsense.

Actually he has a point. Many people maybe not you, but many people are just complaining because they are losing. If they were on a winning server I highly doubt they would be singing the same song.

You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.

The only problems with WvWvW as things currently stand:

1) People log in, see their server is losing, and don’t bother to participate in WvWvW.
2) People get into WvWvW, see their server is losing, and quit WvWvW.
3) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers are disorganized.
4) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers would prefer a game mechanic to solve their problem, rather than put forth the effort to recruit more people on their server to play WvWvW, forge guild alliances, forge cross-server alliances with the other losing server, etc.

I assert there is not a single server in GW2 that has so few people that they cannot field enough players in WvWvW to hit the population cap in WvWvW.

Given that, the problem is not server population. The problem is the number of people on your server playing. Not just when you claim nobody is on and the other server is “night-capping”, but during prime time as well. You’re not losing at night; you’re losing because you’re not fielding enough people at any given time, and the ones you ARE fielding would rather give up than stay and fight.

• Undermanned keeps are too easy to take.
  This allows a server to quickly begin sweeping the entire map once they gain a population advantage. To address this, rams should be more expensive (you should be loath to drop 3+ rams on a door) but harder to kill. NPC guards should be more numerous and considerably more formidable (DAOC NPC guards were all basically like tower lords in this game). Lords themselves should have literally about 20x their current hit points, if not more. They die way too fast right now. Don’t tweak their DPS, I think, but massively increase their health. (This goes for the orb keepers in the north borderlands as well.)

Basically we need to slow down the capture rate. You shouldn’t be able to “ninja” a tower, much less a keep, in under 4 minutes because if you can, then overpop servers will very quickly sweep the entire map.

• Retaliation should probably be removed or changed.
  AE is the tool meant to help small groups fight massed zergs. Retaliation destroys this tools. Removing retaliation from siege engines was a good measure but due to supply limitations, you can’t have everyone on a siege engine (nor would you want that). Instead of Elementalists burning the crowds at the door, they have to fight single targets because AE becomes a form of suicide with retaliation in this game.

• Eventually overpop server populations will get bored and quit playing.
  This is the final solution, though probably not the ideal one from Arenanet’s perspective. They don’t know where to transfer to. They don’t want to restart their guild (do guilds move from server to server? Are they universal across all servers? I don’t know so I bet most other people don’t know either). Bottom line, in the long run we’ll achieve balance by boring overpop players out of the game.

You guys need to chill out. The servers will be re-matched and the large servers with 24 hour populations will end playing each other each week.. smaller servers with less 24 hour presence will end up facing each other and so on. Take your beating and be patient it will change next week.

no more talk of night capping this is a 24 hour game. Play the game and the game will put you in the right place. if your server is not 24 hours then you will be matched against similar foes.

Jeeesh

mcl.9240:

You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.

The only problems with WvWvW as things currently stand:

1) People log in, see their server is losing, and don’t bother to participate in WvWvW.
2) People get into WvWvW, see their server is losing, and quit WvWvW.
3) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers are disorganized.
4) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers would prefer a game mechanic to solve their problem, rather than put forth the effort to recruit more people on their server to play WvWvW, forge guild alliances, forge cross-server alliances with the other losing server, etc.

I assert there is not a single server in GW2 that has so few people that they cannot field enough players in WvWvW to hit the population cap in WvWvW.

Given that, the problem is not server population. The problem is the number of people on your server playing. Not just when you claim nobody is on and the other server is “night-capping”, but during prime time as well. You’re not losing at night; you’re losing because you’re not fielding enough people at any given time, and the ones you ARE fielding would rather give up than stay and fight.

^ This! Well said man.

Slamz.5376:

• Undermanned keeps are too easy to take.
  This allows a server to quickly begin sweeping the entire map once they gain a population advantage. To address this, rams should be more expensive (you should be loath to drop 3+ rams on a door) but harder to kill. NPC guards should be more numerous and considerably more formidable (DAOC NPC guards were all basically like tower lords in this game). Lords themselves should have literally about 20x their current hit points, if not more. They die way too fast right now. Don’t tweak their DPS, I think, but massively increase their health. (This goes for the orb keepers in the north borderlands as well.)

Gonna call BS on this one. A fully upgrade keep can easily withstand assault by far greater numbers. Two nights ago myself and 6 members others defended a keep against an assault involving approx 40 invaders.

During the 24 hr matches keeps, towers etc… flipped fast because they were not upgraded much. In these longer matches people are actually getting full upgrades in. Which results in a keep that is easy to defend because of defensive siege.

Lax.4730:

You guys need to chill out. The servers will be re-matched and the large servers with 24 hour populations will end playing each other each week..

That balance didn’t occur after numerous 1-day rounds. Why do you think a single 1-week round with fix it?

Players keep transferring so there’s no guarantee that a server that did well last round and got promoted to a new tier is actually justified in being there. Similarly, there will be lower pop servers dropping down to lower tiers who will suddenly dominate because a few big guilds moved there to avoid the queues.

Server balance will remain in flux until free transfers are ended.

mcl.9240:

You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.

The only problems with WvWvW as things currently stand:

1) People log in, see their server is losing, and don’t bother to participate in WvWvW.
2) People get into WvWvW, see their server is losing, and quit WvWvW.
3) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers are disorganized.
4) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers would prefer a game mechanic to solve their problem, rather than put forth the effort to recruit more people on their server to play WvWvW, forge guild alliances, forge cross-server alliances with the other losing server, etc.

I assert there is not a single server in GW2 that has so few people that they cannot field enough players in WvWvW to hit the population cap in WvWvW.

Given that, the problem is not server population. The problem is the number of people on your server playing. Not just when you claim nobody is on and the other server is “night-capping”, but during prime time as well. You’re not losing at night; you’re losing because you’re not fielding enough people at any given time, and the ones you ARE fielding would rather give up than stay and fight.

Wait what? Are you by chance r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d?

“You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.” And there you sit making such claims yourself? What the mother kitten hell?

The problem as I see it is that during the night many servers WONT fill 4 borderlands, the servers might say “full” but the players aren’t in WvWvW, and as a player there is NOTHING I can do to make them join and fill the WvWvW.

And to the people saying we just need to wait 1 week to be rematches, thats NOT how the system works. As the second best EU server we will NOT get matches against anyone other then the nr.1 and nr.3 server.

Mog.1589:

Gonna call BS on this one. A fully upgrade keep can easily withstand assault by far greater numbers. Two nights ago myself and 6 members others defended a keep against an assault involving approx 40 invaders.

IF you’re there when the fight starts.

I’ve seen fairly modest attacks melt through the back doors of a fully upgraded garrison in under 5 minutes. Most people don’t like standing around idle on defense, waiting for an attack. In the 5 minute interval between defenders randomly wandering through the keep, you can have the back door down and have rams on the door to the lord room before anyone can even run back to see why there are swords on the map.

You people need to stop with the night capping BS, as someone else said in another post " you consider it bed time, I considered it prime time". If you are getting stomped its because your server lacks the drive/tactics to win.

I appreciate how i paid for the same game yet you want to limit my content or force me to play on a server without my buddies

Slamz.5376:

Lax.4730:

You guys need to chill out. The servers will be re-matched and the large servers with 24 hour populations will end playing each other each week..

That balance didn’t occur after numerous 1-day rounds. Why do you think a single 1-week round with fix it?

Players keep transferring so there’s no guarantee that a server that did well last round and got promoted to a new tier is actually justified in being there. Similarly, there will be lower pop servers dropping down to lower tiers who will suddenly dominate because a few big guilds moved there to avoid the queues.

Server balance will remain in flux until free transfers are ended.

Numerous? There are 24 NA servers. That’s 120 possible combinations.

There have been 10 server groupings since launch.

That’s hardly “numerous”, and not nearly enough for the matchmaking system to have settled into stable groupings. The fact that free server transfers are still enabled compounds that problem.

Wait 3 months, or more. Then complain about groupings. But not while the groupings are changing for almost every server, every time the groupings have the opportunity to change.

That balance didn’t occur after numerous 1-day rounds. Why do you think a single 1-week round with fix it?

Where did i say that?

It will take as long as it takes. Who in their right mind expects it to be balanced the first week? What I said was CHILL OUT. It will improve with time. Take your beating and quit crying. We wont know for months how effective the balancing will become. What we do know is that next week you will play different servers. And it is ok not to be the top server in the game because you will play other servers your size. and the game will be fun. there can only be one #1 no matter what they do. Stop worrying about it and have some fun.

nilco.8457:

mcl.9240:

You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.

The only problems with WvWvW as things currently stand:

1) People log in, see their server is losing, and don’t bother to participate in WvWvW.
2) People get into WvWvW, see their server is losing, and quit WvWvW.
3) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers are disorganized.
4) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers would prefer a game mechanic to solve their problem, rather than put forth the effort to recruit more people on their server to play WvWvW, forge guild alliances, forge cross-server alliances with the other losing server, etc.

I assert there is not a single server in GW2 that has so few people that they cannot field enough players in WvWvW to hit the population cap in WvWvW.

Given that, the problem is not server population. The problem is the number of people on your server playing. Not just when you claim nobody is on and the other server is “night-capping”, but during prime time as well. You’re not losing at night; you’re losing because you’re not fielding enough people at any given time, and the ones you ARE fielding would rather give up than stay and fight.

Wait what? Are you by chance r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d?

“You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.” And there you sit making such claims yourself? What the mother kitten hell?

The problem as I see it is that during the night many servers WONT fill 4 borderlands, the servers might say “full” but the players aren’t in WvWvW, and as a player there is NOTHING I can do to make them join and fill the WvWvW.

And to the people saying we just need to wait 1 week to be rematches, thats NOT how the system works. As the second best EU server we will NOT get matches against anyone other then the nr.1 and nr.3 server.

Ignoring your abusive comments, if your server is claiming that the WvWvW is full and you don’t have the actual population cap in your maps (and I’m sure you’ve personally run the breadth and depth of each and every map numerous times, counting heads to verify this), then use the in-game reporting to file a bug.

However, they’re already aware that WvWvW queuing is broken, and they’re going to implement a fix soon. That’s the official word.

Until then, the only thing you can do is be patient.

mcl.9240:

Slamz.5376:

Lax.4730:

You guys need to chill out. The servers will be re-matched and the large servers with 24 hour populations will end playing each other each week..

That balance didn’t occur after numerous 1-day rounds. Why do you think a single 1-week round with fix it?

Players keep transferring so there’s no guarantee that a server that did well last round and got promoted to a new tier is actually justified in being there. Similarly, there will be lower pop servers dropping down to lower tiers who will suddenly dominate because a few big guilds moved there to avoid the queues.

Server balance will remain in flux until free transfers are ended.

Numerous? There are 24 NA servers. That’s 120 possible combinations.

There have been 10 server groupings since launch.

That’s hardly “numerous”, and not nearly enough for the matchmaking system to have settled into stable groupings. The fact that free server transfers are still enabled compounds that problem.

Wait 3 months, or more. Then complain about groupings. But not while the groupings are changing for almost every server, every time the groupings have the opportunity to change.

This thread my friend is not about “most” server it pertains to top servers, where this problem happens. As I previously stated as the nr2 ranked server we arent going to be matched against anyone other then the nr1 server and nr3 server.

nilco.8457:

mcl.9240:

Slamz.5376:

Lax.4730:

You guys need to chill out. The servers will be re-matched and the large servers with 24 hour populations will end playing each other each week..

That balance didn’t occur after numerous 1-day rounds. Why do you think a single 1-week round with fix it?

Players keep transferring so there’s no guarantee that a server that did well last round and got promoted to a new tier is actually justified in being there. Similarly, there will be lower pop servers dropping down to lower tiers who will suddenly dominate because a few big guilds moved there to avoid the queues.

Server balance will remain in flux until free transfers are ended.

Numerous? There are 24 NA servers. That’s 120 possible combinations.

There have been 10 server groupings since launch.

That’s hardly “numerous”, and not nearly enough for the matchmaking system to have settled into stable groupings. The fact that free server transfers are still enabled compounds that problem.

Wait 3 months, or more. Then complain about groupings. But not while the groupings are changing for almost every server, every time the groupings have the opportunity to change.

This thread my friend is not about “most” server it pertains to top servers, where this problem happens. As I previously stated as the nr2 ranked server we arent going to be matched against anyone other then the nr1 server and nr3 server.

Then perhaps you need to wait until the queuing bug is fixed.

If you still have the problem, then you’re either wrong about how many people are in your server’s WvWvW, or you are simply upset that you’re losing.

mcl.9240:

nilco.8457:

mcl.9240:

You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.

The only problems with WvWvW as things currently stand:

1) People log in, see their server is losing, and don’t bother to participate in WvWvW.
2) People get into WvWvW, see their server is losing, and quit WvWvW.
3) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers are disorganized.
4) People participating in WvWvW on losing servers would prefer a game mechanic to solve their problem, rather than put forth the effort to recruit more people on their server to play WvWvW, forge guild alliances, forge cross-server alliances with the other losing server, etc.

I assert there is not a single server in GW2 that has so few people that they cannot field enough players in WvWvW to hit the population cap in WvWvW.

Given that, the problem is not server population. The problem is the number of people on your server playing. Not just when you claim nobody is on and the other server is “night-capping”, but during prime time as well. You’re not losing at night; you’re losing because you’re not fielding enough people at any given time, and the ones you ARE fielding would rather give up than stay and fight.

Wait what? Are you by chance r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d?

“You can’t possibly make any claims based on WvWvW participation, since you don’t have access to that data.” And there you sit making such claims yourself? What the mother kitten hell?

The problem as I see it is that during the night many servers WONT fill 4 borderlands, the servers might say “full” but the players aren’t in WvWvW, and as a player there is NOTHING I can do to make them join and fill the WvWvW.

And to the people saying we just need to wait 1 week to be rematches, thats NOT how the system works. As the second best EU server we will NOT get matches against anyone other then the nr.1 and nr.3 server.

Ignoring your abusive comments, if your server is claiming that the WvWvW is full and you don’t have the actual population cap in your maps (and I’m sure you’ve personally run the breadth and depth of each and every map numerous times, counting heads to verify this), then use the in-game reporting to file a bug.

However, they’re already aware that WvWvW queuing is broken, and they’re going to implement a fix soon. That’s the official word.

Until then, the only thing you can do is be patient.

I do stand for my abusive comments. And so far they hold true.

Where have I claimed WvWvW was full but not the right population? Re-read my posts please. What I was saying was that the SERVER might be labeled as “full” 24/7 we dont fill a single wvwvw borderland after 2AM, where as Viznuah Square do. This results in having the “outnumbered” buff to show that this is infact the case, and I every night go in every borderland and have that buff, thus validating my points.

So before you comment further re-read the thread and get a grasp on what is being discussed before you comment :-)

Also, all is well that ends okay so ill end this with a f you, but have a nice day :-)

Wolfus.4531:

You people need to stop with the night capping BS, as someone else said in another post " you consider it bed time, I considered it prime time". If you are getting stomped its because your server lacks the drive/tactics to win.

I appreciate how i paid for the same game yet you want to limit my content or force me to play on a server without my buddies

But is WvW a casual or a hardcore game mode?

You can’t expect the casual player to get on game forums to recruit off-peak guilds, form server-wide alliances etc. The casual player just does not have the time or willingness to do this.

By all means, allow WvW to become hardcore. But if that is the case, then ArenaNet is guilty of false advertising. WvW was sold as endgame for casual players.

(And I will also add, if WvW does go hardcore, it will end up with niche numbers like Eve Online: 500k tops).

This is the part where Far Shiverpeaks and Desolation get together, band up and dominate Vizunah square.

If they don’t, Far Shiverpeaks and Desolation don’t deserve to win.

Thrumdi.9216:

Wolfus.4531:

You people need to stop with the night capping BS, as someone else said in another post " you consider it bed time, I considered it prime time". If you are getting stomped its because your server lacks the drive/tactics to win.

I appreciate how i paid for the same game yet you want to limit my content or force me to play on a server without my buddies

But is WvW a casual or a hardcore game mode?

You can’t expect the casual player to get on game forums to recruit off-peak guilds, form server-wide alliances etc. The casual player just does not have the time or willingness to do this.

By all means, allow WvW to become hardcore. But if that is the case, then ArenaNet is guilty of false advertising. WvW was sold as endgame for casual players.

(And I will also add, if WvW does go hardcore, it will end up with niche numbers like Eve Online: 500k tops).

Casual or hardcore it doesnt matter to me, im just tired of the ranting of certain forumers trying to get Anet to close WvW at night. I only play at night because i work for a 24hr operation. If they close of WvW at night then that limits the content in a game i paid for.

Not to mention the OPs so called “study” is bogus. How can you do a study based on the first round of week long WvW. A correct study would be held over quite a few rounds. Not mention the chaos factor ie queing issues/afker issues need to be taken into account. Last night we had 25 players in EsF guild and 10 players from EDWM throwing a stupid dance party in our bordlands main keep while a guardian and engineer wrecked a tower by themselves.

Noone is asking for Anet so shut down WvWvW during the night. Im asking them to fix a major problem. How they fix it is up to them, if they want to shut down wvwvw during the night then fine.

All I have done is watched and played wvwvw since the game launched, and started compiling my “bogus” study.

I do not for the love of me understand how you can sit there and say that everything is fine, all players just need to quit there jobs or start working really odd hours so we can play WvWvW during the night. To me that is ludicrous and unreasonable.

Obviously all this must have been foreseen by ArenaNet and they must have a plan to fix it, to say that there is no problem is ignorant and frankly quite r-e-t-a-r-d-e-d.

When is this problem fixed so i can start playing again?