Guild Wars 2

That’s right folks , I’m talking about defending! Defending the borderlands in WvW (running yaks, buying upgrades, siege up, etc.) is the least profitable and most expensive way to play GW2. If you do your job right as a defender, you go through loads of gold on siege and upgrades, waste time chasing small groups of roamers, and get little to no reward for it. On top of that you may even spend time sitting and waiting for things to happen so that you will be able to alert the zerg when it does. Offensive play rewards you with decent loot drops, champ bags, dragonite, and a lot of WxP. The WxP for defending even SM is equal to that of taking a single camp! On top of that you get no champ loot and dragonite for all your hard work. At the end of the day your are left bitter, broke, and feeling like you wasted your time.

THIS CAN’T GO ON

As it stands WvW rewards are unbalanced and need a change. My suggestions:
1) Allow the people that purchase an upgrade to receive a percentage of the cost back to them per tick the item is owned. For example, if they spend 75 silver upgrading a keep they gain 10% -20% of it back to them per tick the item is owned. After they reach their base amount it keeps returning it back to the upgrader as profit so they can make money by upgrading and keeping it for long periods of time. This encourages more people to upgrade and gives a reason for those that do to defend it.

2)Give people that earn the Successful Defense event completion award a chest equal to the award they would have gotten for taking it every time they earn it. Also up the WxP for the defense events so defenders can actually level up. This may need a little tweaking since a champ bag and dragonite bag every 3 minutes you defend a keep ( if you get the successful defense award which you don’t get that often) may be a little OP but it gives rewards to defenders that match that to those taking things. Making it more rewarding to defend then taking also encourages more people to defend and hold onto stuff then to let it go and just retake.

3) Finally, I think they should give a reward chest to all people that WvW that week. The reward can be small but there should be some reward based on ranking that encourages people to try and earn first outside of the tournaments. 10 gold for first place and 250 badges of honor for first, 7 gold and 200 badges for 2nd and 5 gold and 150 for 3rd is my suggestion. This gives just something to reward people that play WvW all year round. Also adding their upgrading returns to their end of the week chest would be a easier idea then giving them gold every tick. With these changes I think that WvW will take a small step into becoming more balanced.

20 Tournament tickets every week to winning server.
10 Tournament tickets to 2nd server
5 tickets to loosing server

Organized servers should rotate people in and out of undesirable roles (such as scouting and defending) as needed so that everyone can have an enjoyable WvW experience. Commanders need to pay attention and not take advantage of people who offer to scout/defend.

Cuz using AC’s is hard

Darkfalcon.8176:

1) Allow the people that purchase an upgrade to receive a percentage of the cost back to them per tick the item is owned. For example, if they spend 75 silver upgrading a keep they gain 10% -20% of it back to them per tick the item is owned. After they reach their base amount it keeps returning it back to the upgrader as profit so they can make money by upgrading and keeping it for long periods of time. This encourages more people to upgrade and gives a reason for those that do to defend it.

Ok so I go to some keep, spend a few silver on the cheapest upgrade then, because I know my server is dominant during the next xx hours or because the wvw is dead for most of the day in my tier, we won’t lose it and I’ll make a whole lot of money from doing nothing.
Oh no, someone else beat me to it! Now he’ll make the money and not me! Better not let my allies know if it’s under attack. That way we lose it and I can start the upgrade first when we recap it. I should also rage at that guy for starting the upgrade I was meant to.

2)Give people that earn the Successful Defense event completion award a chest equal to the award they would have gotten for taking it every time they earn it. Also up the WxP for the defense events so defenders can actually level up. This may need a little tweaking since a champ bag and dragonite bag every 3 minutes you defend a keep ( if you get the successful defense award which you don’t get that often) may be a little OP but it gives rewards to defenders that match that to those taking things. Making it more rewarding to defend then taking also encourages more people to defend and hold onto stuff then to let it go and just retake.

Ok, let me afk in my keep while my server mates do all the defending. I’ll get rewards for no effort, definitely working as intended.

3) Finally, I think they should give a reward chest to all people that WvW that week. The reward can be small but there should be some reward based on ranking that encourages people to try and earn first outside of the tournaments. 10 gold for first place and 250 badges of honor for first, 7 gold and 200 badges for 2nd and 5 gold and 150 for 3rd is my suggestion. This gives just something to reward people that play WvW all year round. Also adding their upgrading returns to their end of the week chest would be a easier idea then giving them gold every tick. With these changes I think that WvW will take a small step into becoming more balanced.

It’s like I didn’t already know that bonus chests were awarded based on a server’s placing for that week!

i have stopped playing in wvw since anet refuse understand that eotm rewards are better than wvw.not only rewards but the fun from the fights too !

i prefer to see wvw die than involved again to a system that is outdated and less rewarding than the new one. i care less for my server every day that is passing .

the last weekend i logged most in eotm and i had real fun and good fights and rewards. i went only to my home border to kick some guilds enemy a…s . but these new wvw guilds are so easy to fight against them and i logged off .the only only real challenge that have remained in wvw borders are the godcondition roaming classes that spam poison on every hit ….

anet you should close home borders now …. do not keep alive a dead system or fix it a.s.a.p. !

Deli.1302:

Darkfalcon.8176:

1) Allow the people that purchase an upgrade to receive a percentage of the cost back to them per tick the item is owned. For example, if they spend 75 silver upgrading a keep they gain 10% -20% of it back to them per tick the item is owned. After they reach their base amount it keeps returning it back to the upgrader as profit so they can make money by upgrading and keeping it for long periods of time. This encourages more people to upgrade and gives a reason for those that do to defend it.

Ok so I go to some keep, spend a few silver on the cheapest upgrade then, because I know my server is dominant during the next xx hours or because the wvw is dead for most of the day in my tier, we won’t lose it and I’ll make a whole lot of money from doing nothing.
Oh no, someone else beat me to it! Now he’ll make the money and not me! Better not let my allies know if it’s under attack. That way we lose it and I can start the upgrade first when we recap it. I should also rage at that guy for starting the upgrade I was meant to.

2)Give people that earn the Successful Defense event completion award a chest equal to the award they would have gotten for taking it every time they earn it. Also up the WxP for the defense events so defenders can actually level up. This may need a little tweaking since a champ bag and dragonite bag every 3 minutes you defend a keep ( if you get the successful defense award which you don’t get that often) may be a little OP but it gives rewards to defenders that match that to those taking things. Making it more rewarding to defend then taking also encourages more people to defend and hold onto stuff then to let it go and just retake.

Ok, let me afk in my keep while my server mates do all the defending. I’ll get rewards for no effort, definitely working as intended.

3) Finally, I think they should give a reward chest to all people that WvW that week. The reward can be small but there should be some reward based on ranking that encourages people to try and earn first outside of the tournaments. 10 gold for first place and 250 badges of honor for first, 7 gold and 200 badges for 2nd and 5 gold and 150 for 3rd is my suggestion. This gives just something to reward people that play WvW all year round. Also adding their upgrading returns to their end of the week chest would be a easier idea then giving them gold every tick. With these changes I think that WvW will take a small step into becoming more balanced.

It’s like I didn’t already know that bonus chests were awarded based on a server’s placing for that week!

1)The idea does need some sort of tweaking or entire new idea, yes, there are some obvious flaws such as that. But there needs to be some sort of reward for those who selflessly spend their hard earned cash making those waypoint. I would love to hear your suggestion for a return on upgrading. People not letting their allies know would be absolutely nothing new since people do it all the time so they can just retake later for the WxP/loot. Additionally the amount returned scales with the upgrade so it doesn’t have to be a keep. instead of letting your own stuff good you could take something as small as an enemies camp and hold it for a long enough time to get a return on it.

2) No you cant just afk. You only get the successful defense when you kill something or destroy enemy siege. you could sit their hammering their siege with an ac for 3 ticks. you would only get it on the one it dies.

3)The bonus chest is a very small reward and requires you to play the next week and rank up multiply times to get all the rewards for your rank. The reward should be given without having to do anything since you earned the reward in the previous week

These are just my suggestions. I know they aren’t perfect and I would love to hear your guys ideas.

Darkfalcon.8176:

Offensive play rewards you with decent loot drops, champ bags, dragonite, and a lot of WxP.

You lost me right here.

Decent WvW loot drops = spikes, a blue or a green. You get a yellow once a week and an exotic once a couple months. Ascended drops are like hitting the lottery, until you realize that the stats aren’t ones you want to use.

Champ bags…see above

Dragonite, ah yes, that mat that takes up inventory space that makes me have to venture to a temple just to get rid of it.

WxP is like skill points, karma and badges to someone who plays WvW, after a while you stop using it and just accumulate it.

But back to your topic. Offense is easy to track. Do “X” damage or be inside a circle.

Defense is always extra checks that needs to be done. Do “X” damage to someone that’s done “Y” damage to NPC, structure or player within structure defense zone. Should the defense reward scale with the attacking force? Attack rewards don’t. I’m not sure that the servers could handle the extra calculations needed for defense.

Darkfalcon.8176:

1)The idea does need some sort of tweaking or entire new idea, yes, there are some obvious flaws such as that. But there needs to be some sort of reward for those who selflessly spend their hard earned cash making those waypoint. I would love to hear your suggestion for a return on upgrading. People not letting their allies know would be absolutely nothing new since people do it all the time so they can just retake later for the WxP/loot. Additionally the amount returned scales with the upgrade so it doesn’t have to be a keep. instead of letting your own stuff good you could take something as small as an enemies camp and hold it for a long enough time to get a return on it.

1)No one plays for ppt anymore and nothing that anet does is going to suddenly make people care about it again. Fights>ppt. At this time in the games life, no amount of rewards for ppt’ing will change the wvw culture.
2)My suggestion for a return on upgrading? …. The upgrade itself???? Isn’t that quite obvious. The UI tells you what you get when you put in your money. I’m not saying the system is perfect (frankly, the time it takes for an upgrade to complete is the only cost we should have) but no change will ever be perfect. What we have now is fine. The reward is getting it to T3 and holding it for hours/days. It’s not like people aren’t upgrading/scouting/sieging it up now. Might be a problem on your own server.

2) No you cant just afk. You only get the successful defense when you kill something or destroy enemy siege. you could sit their hammering their siege with an ac for 3 ticks. you would only get it on the one it dies.

You get bronze medal for doing nothing. Good enough for a bot.

3)The bonus chest is a very small reward and requires you to play the next week and rank up multiply times to get all the rewards for your rank. The reward should be given without having to do anything since you earned the reward in the previous week

So it rewards continued WvW participation and you think it’s a bad?

consistant wvw player, have never been able to get the tournament reward function to work. submitting support ticket, asking guildies, google search, gw2 wiki search, hitting head against monitor – i’m sure its a user error on my part but none worked and just not worth the frustration level. i continue to play wvw because the mode is enjoyable. no more, no less. again, you win some you lose some.

Darkfalcon.8176:

2) No you cant just afk. You only get the successful defense when you kill something or destroy enemy siege. you could sit their hammering their siege with an ac for 3 ticks. you would only get it on the one it dies.

When we control either Overlook or SMC and we are trebbing each other, I just put some supply on the wall and get credit for the defense event (2-14 bronze, 15-24 silver, 25+ gold). And I didn’t event actively defended anything… Also, breaking siege does not award you defense event credit.

We’ve had many posts about how defending needs to be more rewarding. And not just the act of defending but the thankless jobs you mentioned OP. Even Anet has agreed.

But they haven’t found out a way to reward defending that wouldn’t be open to exploit. A few bad apples spoils it for the rest of us. This is why we can never have nice things, people just suck.

@Deli Plenty of people care about PPT still. Defending is two fold: It is done for PPT but it also leads to fights. If everyone’s running around Ktraining, no one’s fighting.

I applaud you for even bothering to waste your time trying to suggest something to anet.
Your words will be read…probably,and forgotten,thrown aside in the bin of “We don’t listen to suggestions and we’re not ever gonna improve wvw”.

Hule.8794:

20 Tournament tickets every week to winning server.
10 Tournament tickets to 2nd server
5 tickets to loosing server

That may be the best chose but it would cause a lot of ban-waging to the “best in tear” worlds.

Again. The idea does need a lot of tweaking to be less exploitable but its a lot better then nothing at all! I don’t know if its just my server but upgrading, sieging, and defending is carried about by a very small handful of us. Anything is better then our current system of nothing.

Darkfalcon.8176:

Again. The idea does need a lot of tweaking to be less exploitable but its a lot better then nothing at all! I don’t know if its just my server but upgrading, sieging, and defending is carried about by a very small handful of us. Anything is better then our current system of nothing.

yes. have you hugged a ranger today? (if you are a commander I know the answer is no … oh, except for SC of course , I did find you a hat and all.). good thing i still have my pets and my trapperkeeper.

Hule.8794:

20 Tournament tickets every week to winning server.
10 Tournament tickets to 2nd server
5 tickets to loosing server

and the poor guys in a every week outnumbered server will earn an ascended accessory ( if the rewards remain like after season 2 ) after …..

40 weeks = almost one year

Reborn.2934:

i have stopped playing in wvw since anet refuse understand that eotm rewards are better than wvw.not only rewards but the fun from the fights too !

i prefer to see wvw die than involved again to a system that is outdated and less rewarding than the new one. i care less for my server every day that is passing .

the last weekend i logged most in eotm and i had real fun and good fights and rewards. i went only to my home border to kick some guilds enemy a…s . but these new wvw guilds are so easy to fight against them and i logged off .the only only real challenge that have remained in wvw borders are the godcondition roaming classes that spam poison on every hit ….

anet you should close home borders now …. do not keep alive a dead system or fix it a.s.a.p. !

I am sorry, but there are fights in EoTM? I haven’t been able to see one single instance so far that actually fights. Well the closest I saw of a fight was red going to blue keep but commander got away from the keyboard for 1 min (apparently you can’t use the acronym as it becomes kitten) and then green blob passed and killed everyone since they had at least twice the numbers.

People don’t use cheesy condition builds in EoTM because it is not required, they don’t need that to K-Train. The moment that fixes happen in that game mode that actually makes players stop avoiding each other, it is easy to assume many will change their builds to the current meta.

To conclude, I think it is safe to say we play in WvW for fun and not rewards. If one is after rewards only, they are in the wrong place. I personally think it is extremely boring play the game day after day running after a random loot. I don’t want and don’t care about that. In game gold won’t make the game fun for me, at maximum will give me more skins which I, again, don’t care about it. Yes, the reward system in WvW is bad, is broken when is about server wide, but it is still a fun mode to play and that is the reason why people still play it.

I play defensive and roaming styles and with an organized zerg burst guild during reset. Defensive play style indeed is not even close to the rewards you get from being offensive, although, in my perspective, the only thing needs a fix right now is for an equal wxp for defended events.

being a wvw player period is a thankless job. the pve exclusive(lol) players don’t give a kitten that you get buffs for their phat lootz.

BL defense is almost entirely thankless, it’s true. The most recent topic on this, I believe, was mine:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/BL-defense-and-upgrades-do-you-bother/

None of it really has any suggestions for increasing rewards or anything, though, just about nerfing Siegerazer, and that’s because I couldn’t really think of a better reward system.

I do think that building siege should at least award WXP (not just cannons/oils/mortars), although I’m now at the point where WXP doesn’t mean anything to me anymore except a rank chest with (generally) 2 green items in it. I think the costs for upgrading could come down, because relying on people to share the costs is not really practical in many cases, and with so little reward from even successful defenses, it’s not enough to cover the costs of even upgrading a tower.

I don’t know. Perhaps if they kept the same bronze/silver/gold reward tiers for defense but at least increased the reward based on the objective being defended it would be a step in the right direction. At the very least a successful defense should be rewarded with more coin/karma/WXP that also scales with the objective type as well. Right now I get the same exact reward for a gold defense of a camp as I do for a gold defense of Garrison. It’s silly.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Right now I get the same exact reward for a gold defense of a camp as I do for a gold defense of Garrison.

Untrue… Gold defense on camps give 85 wxp while gold defense on keeps give 200.

azyume.6321:

Reborn.2934:

i have stopped playing in wvw since anet refuse understand that eotm rewards are better than wvw.not only rewards but the fun from the fights too !
…..
the last weekend i logged most in eotm and i had real fun and good fights and rewards. ….

anet you should close home borders now …. do not keep alive a dead system or fix it a.s.a.p. !

I am sorry, but there are fights in EoTM? ….

To conclude, I think it is safe to say we play in WvW for fun and not rewards. If one is after rewards only, they are in the wrong place. ….

I play defensive and roaming styles and with an organized zerg burst guild during reset. ….

i will answer on your quote only on those that i left to make it more clear my answer.

first of all i will start with a question . ok all knows that eotm has better and faster rewards and this make it many times have karma trains , since i know that you are old player ,can you remember what was the situation in wvw maps before 1 year ?

i will answer to avoid misunderstood . oh yeah …. a big karma train !!!

now on the fun part . you can stay and refresh all day the sieges and play the scouter role for your server’s score . i have played in the past the same roles and i have spend tones of gold on upgrades but after each week on reset i didn’t saw anything as reward for my efforts …. anet send you any reward at the end of the week for your efforts in wvw map to help your server ? i don’t think so mate ….

the only reward that i took was when i tagged up with my com character was to asked to tag off because a bigger guild didn’t want to follow a player from a small guild and they tag up their com .

with a few words …. screw wvw , screw guilds in gw2 . there is nothing fun there . only anonymity and disappointment is there . every time i log in any wvw map , it always ends with a disappointment of the bad fights , the lost of tower because there was not enough people to defend it against a blob at 04:00 the night , against hackers that destroying garrison sieges under the map ….

with a few words . long live eotm …!!!

better structures to defend , way better map with no room for hackers ( under the map ) . no LAG and a system that is not draining from you gold / gems , but it only gives you.

p.s. in Europe mate we are not following karma coms , we force them this way to tag off …. it is very simple and it works … many fights , many defends and many lootbags , something that nobody can find constantly in wvw maps anymore !

Stop playing ppt, seriously cannot believe people still do defense.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Stop playing ppt, seriously cannot believe people still do defense.

But… But… The bags!

King Amadaeus.8619:

Stop playing ppt, seriously cannot believe people still do defense.

I still do. Some of you people should stop talking for the entire planet. You don’t like PPT? Well, go do something else elsewhere. Not very difficult.

I play the points. I defend as much as I can. I repair all I can and I pay for all the upgrades I can even on friday. Do you think I do so because I’m too stupid to understand that it’s all going to be wasted in a few hours? I do so because I accept the game for what it is and I have fun doing it.

Stop wanting rewards for no other reason than to motivate you playing. If the game isn’t a reward in itself than go do something else. If the only reason to defend an objective is the loot or the xp then please go %?& elsewhere preferably outside WvW.

Several of you ppl need to learn to push the PvP cross swords icon or just change for another game instead of whinning about how WvW is broken or whatelse. You don’t like it anyway so why punish yourselves playing WvW? This is just dumb and very bad for the server and those who like all that WvW is including, but not limited to, the fights.

I’m so tired of this BS, elitist and childish attitude that has become more and more common.

Here inNSP everyone upgrades, runs yaks and guards towers.. We have good communication . I command some times and when i see another tag I pm the current tag so he/she can go offensive and I do defensive… It’s all about good relations with other guilds.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Do you think I do so because I’m too stupid to understand that it’s all going to be wasted in a few hours?

I stopped reading after that bit.

Also my response was in response to people that do BL defense and still come here whining about how it sucks. So in a way you proved my point which was stop doing something you think sucks.

I just didn’t choose to textwall about it.

Hule.8794:

20 Tournament tickets every week to winning server.
10 Tournament tickets to 2nd server
5 tickets to loosing server

You meant this to be one of those posts where the solution is right in front of everyone’s eyes and no one notices it. On top of this, it’s so simple that you only have to merely state it get everyone’s attention, rather than explaining your position in greater detail.

You were successful. +1

MightyMicah.7451:

Hule.8794:

20 Tournament tickets every week to winning server.
10 Tournament tickets to 2nd server
5 tickets to loosing server

You meant this to be one of those posts where the solution is right in front of everyone’s eyes and no one notices it. On top of this, it’s so simple that you only have to merely state it get everyone’s attention, rather than explaining your position in greater detail.

You were successful. +1

no mate , because the players that belong to the outnumbered servers ( oh yeah the coverage make the winner ) ,they will win an ascended accessory afetr 40 weeks ….

a fair reward system gives almost equal rewards to all and good rewards to attract more people to wvw . if a server wins every week with 20 Tournament tickets every week they will win an accessory after 10 weeks = 3+ months ….

with the current system of 200 Tournament tickets for an ascended accessory and because of six accessories for each character the 20 Tournament tickets is very poor reward.ofc better than nothing , but they are account bound . nobody should forget that are account bound .

if they want to give rewards and give some boost to new players to play wvw to make better their characters sooner and keep satisfied the old players they should give :

1. winner server : 50 Tournament tickets ( in an ideal situation : 1 character wins 6 ascended trinkets in 6 months , for all 5 characters of an account is total 2 and half years )
2. second server : 45 Tournament tickets
3. third server : 40 Tournament tickets

if they add 20 for the winner i will stay out of wvw ….. there is no reason to play for an ascended accessory that is account bound and i can not salvage or use it in mystic forge after 10 weeks !

Pretty nice suggestions!
Ofc they need some tweaking, but Anet should definately consider them.