Guild Wars 2

Proposal Overview
I would like to propose or offer a suggestion to the Dev’s about maybe incorporating a one to two hour window of neutrality once a week on the WvW maps to allow players who do not participate in WvW to map, this would also allow WvW’ers to map as well in the same fashion so they can focus more on WvW.

Goal of Proposal
The goal is pretty much to allow the freedom of any and all players to accomplish something in game without having to resort to having assistance to keep from being ganged up on or have to deal with low populations in a place where they have no interest in of being in, but seek to accomplish an achievement that requires them to venture into.

Proposal Functionality
Basically, incorporating this one to two hour window could occur around the time of reset on Fridays, or around a time that would be fitting so as to help out our oceanic players as well so as not to have a very long window or two separate windows. This would give people a chance to step in, map any of the borderlands or EB, and leave without interfering with WvW groups who have different plans besides mapping. Further more, if done at a time where it was one to two hours, it would give those players who do heavy PvP and WvW, their groups, a chance to take a break if need be or regroup and plan.

Associated Risks
At the moment I cannot see a risk in allowing this to occur as it does not interfere, nor interrupt flow of game play to anyone.

As someone who has been struggling for well over a month at least to complete a WvW map – (Eternal Battlegrounds) I agree.

As a primarily PvE player – I might even be drawn into WvW if mapping it was not made to be such an impossible chore. At this point, I have been waiting since APRIL for our server to be ‘red’ on our map rotation. We have not been red since the beginning of April. While the red areas I need HAVE been captured, I am not an 8 hour a day player – I log on in the evenings, and then I log off. At this point, I have not been able to capture 2 poi and 2 vista personally due to the map color.

Im disappointed that the servers cannot even be rotated by color every few weeks. This is my second characters map completion, and at this point, WvW is all that is preventing it.

Again, I AM a primarily PvE player – but, I have played my share of WvW. I can tell you that this type of situation does not want me to venture in more, it only serves to up the frustration level. I enjoy EotM, and I enjoy PvE because I can go in and enjoy it at my own pace, and when I feel like – but, to have an achievement/reward be completely out of a players hands is very unrealistic. It isn’t like one random player can influence an entire server who is working towards a score to venture out and capture a stronger servers keep, or nearby towers.

So.. you are forced to wait. Indefinitely. For months. =/

How about rotating the map colors every few weeks so situations like this do not happen then? Red, Blue, Green, etc?

LOL. You want 2 hours on FRIDAY where people aren’t allowed to play wvw so you can map complete?

cinemapaula.8673:

How about rotating the map colors every few weeks so situations like this do not happen then? Red, Blue, Green, etc?

A much more reasonable and realistic request.
And one that I think they may have started doing recently, judging by the millenium matchups.

Matchups already rotate colors based on the predicted winners/losers

1st – 2nd – 3rd
green – blue – red

OT: I’m ok with this. It’d be neat to have 1 hour “endgame” after a matchup on friday in which you can, and other servers are also on the map and you can talk to eachother as well (congratulating/flaming/finding that one roamer that keeps beating you to rage at) and then an hour “pre-game” like this where you can wish good – or bad – fortune on your enemies.

all the while, allowing pve’ers their mapping so they don’t need to zerg.

Actually, it is reasonable when you think about it.

There is a full week to WvW save when they do updates to the game, the same being for PvE, furthermore, you have wait times when it comes to normal reset plus map ques where you may or may not be competing with some individual who maybe is just trying to just get in a map, which would eliminate them as a spot taken on a map people want to get in on. Alongside that you as WvW players can step into PvE with freedom to move and map which PvE’s don’t get in reverse.

I disagree with 1st 2nd 3rd. We have had the SAME matchups forever, and have been green/blue since April. It should be a simple rotation, no scoring should determine it. As long as its required for Map Completion, do something so its do-able in a reasonable time.

Again, I’ve been trying for 100% since the beginning of April. If they go by predicted win/lose, we won’t be red AGAIN this week. Its unreasonable to expect PvE players to sit and wait for weeks and months for something they have no control over.

Mapping WvW is actually extremely easy, and you can pretty much get it without even trying if you just play WvW on a semi-regular basis.

The matchups change every week, and more often than not your home borderland and home side of EB will be a different color.

Also, wuv wuv really needs the love and support right now.

I don’t get what the point would be in mapping an area that has 0 hazards. If it comes to that then they may as well just hand you the achievement or else take mapping out of WvW altogether.

Maybe they could eliminate the WvW requirement like you said Karuna. I would agree with that if it would prevent any bickering or massive disagreement.

Karuna.1357:

Mapping WvW is actually extremely easy, and you can pretty much get it without even trying if you just play WvW on a semi-regular basis.

The matchups change every week, and more often than not your home borderland and home side of EB will be a different color.

Also, wuv wuv really needs the love and support right now.

I don’t get what the point would be in mapping an area that has 0 hazards. If it comes to that then they may as well just hand you the achievement or else take mapping out of WvW altogether.

Some of us DON’T WvW on a regular basis, due to the fact that mapping and the lack of color rotation has made us essentially detest WvW.

You assume the colors rotate regularly. On my server, we have NOT been red since the beginning of April. This is not ‘regularly’. I’ve gotten to where I’ve waited so long that I’m beginning to hate even going into WvW – this isn’t the way to get it some love, or support, its the way to kitten off casual/potential WvW’rs.

For those of us who play a few hours a night, and do dailies – mapping has NOT been possible. I know Im not the only person on my server with this issue, and I know recently several people who have transferred just for map completion. That situation certainly isn’t helping anyone, now is it?

And… if none of this, then maybe Anet could release a shadow map where it does not interfere with WvW at all. I would like to see that so no arguments erupt over things.

WvW colors used to be a rotation before the Season 2 but apparently now it went back to the old scheme of colors tied up to the previous match plus general score.

Horrible scheme, if thats the case. Horrible idea, bad plan, and it should be reconsidered.

Sooo….You want to make it a simple stroll to get map completion? The whole point is to say “I have done everything”, but by doing this, you have not, if thats the case you might as well just ask for map completion be removed from WvW, as a matter of fact, just make it so when you make a new character, once you log in you get instant map completion.

I find it funny PvE players have trouble with the ever so small set of WvW maps, but any of us WvW players who wanted completion or a legendary, had to clear ALL of the PvE content, and have to farm the hell out of PvE to be able to get the needed items for making one. But that’s the point of this, if you cant be bothered to learn all of the game and get good at it (which is not hard), then you don’t deserve map completion or a legendary, simple as that.

That’s an inelegant solution, in my opinion. The best solution, I feel, would be this:

Split Map Completion into “Tyria” and “The Mists”. Completing one or the other gets you one Gift of Exploration (you currently get 2 for completing everything). So, a player who doesn’t want to touch PvE at all, or WvW at all, can get one Gift just by sticking to their preferred area.

TinkTink, it’s same in reverse. A PvE’er has to map and farm just as a WvW’er has to, that is even across the board regardless on that element alone on the same note with the map completion. You’re not wrong in that at all.

But yes, PvE’er DO have a problem with a small set of maps, maybe due to either populations, or time differences or whatever else is going on. You cannot say every server has a great WvW on them because you’ve known just as much as anyone about guild’s leaving servers, players transferring because lack of other players.

I’ve personally gotten map completion twice but most all of it was sheer luck on being there at the right time, not because I WvW regularly. I’ll agree with you about if they eliminated and separated the two in that manner or if they went about another manner of making it simpler to complete.

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

But that’s the point of this, if you cant be bothered to learn all of the game and get good at it (which is not hard), then you don’t deserve map completion or a legendary, simple as that.

You really don’t get it. WvW isnt ONE person’s skill. Its dependant on an entire server and all the players on that server who are playing. How do you think that tests the skill of a player?

No one wants a freebie – I’m asking for even rotation of colors. Do you think thats REALLY asking too much??

I agree with cinemapaula, very very much.

In honest opinion, I am glad my server is loosing right now, just for the fact that I know we’ll get red, and I can finally complete the maps I need to do for WvW.

Even rotation of colors is something that SHOULD have been implemented from the started, and not a system in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

I also like Zaraxes way of thinking too: splitting the maps into Tyria completion and Mists Completion. That would be something I’d find as a compromise, too.

Dwolf.4358:

TinkTink, it’s same in reverse. A PvE’er has to map and farm just as a WvW’er has to, that is even across the board regardless on that element alone on the same note with the map completion. You’re not wrong in that at all.

But yes, PvE’er DO have a problem with a small set of maps, maybe due to either populations, or time differences or whatever else is going on. You cannot say every server has a great WvW on them because you’ve known just as much as anyone about guild’s leaving servers, players transferring because lack of other players.

I’ve personally gotten map completion twice but most all of it was sheer luck on being there at the right time, not because I WvW regularly. I’ll agree with you about if they eliminated and separated the two in that manner or if they went about another manner of making it simpler to complete.

Yes, they have to map and farm like WvW players….But they are getting to do what they want, which is PvE while doing that, we have to spend just as much time farming and doing other PvE things to get there, than others have to do in WvW. When I did mine our server was not the best, I also worked nights, so no one was ever on when I was on and is another reason I did almost everything solo other than keeps, even capped a few towers solo for it. I knew no one in PvE because I did nothing but WvW and asking a PvEer to help was a joke, most never answered or could care less it took so many people to open up an area or event to be able to get POI or a SP, that is assuming anyone on at all on the map to help with it, but I did it, lots of waiting, lots of reading on forums or talking to guilds who did events etc to get it done, that is what it is about.

cinemapaula.8673:

You really don’t get it. WvW isnt ONE person’s skill. Its dependant on an entire server and all the players on that server who are playing. How do you think that tests the skill of a player?

No one wants a freebie – I’m asking for even rotation of colors. Do you think thats REALLY asking too much??

There are many areas in PvE you need more than one person to get to/open up or finish, though it can be done, which is the same for WvW, if you read above I, as well as others have done it all solo 90% of the time. The OP just wants to rush through a part of the game they don’t care for without any trouble, effort or learning anything about that game mode. I got nothing like that for clearing the massive amount of PvE I had to do and clear, again, it is about showing you have done everything and understand it. Also, the OP is not asking about color rotation, it is asking for a free map and nothing more.

Anet will never split the maps in two. Map completion is also on WvW for a reason, it is an endgame content, they want the players to go out there and experience it.

The problem is when the PvE player go to WvW alone, will, usually, have a bad experience. They aren’t expecting the hardships of that part of the game nor are aware of the mechanics and just want to grab whatever they are missing and get out. Besides that, there is a problem that Anet recognized before by implementing the color rotation, with population and coverage imbalances, which can make map completion difficult.

The best thing to do is re enable color rotation. Both PvE and WvW players win with it. PvE players have a chance to finish their map while WvW players to experience fighting as another color instead the same one over and over again.

cinemapaula.8673:

Some of us DON’T WvW on a regular basis, due to the fact that mapping and the lack of color rotation has made us essentially detest WvW.

You assume the colors rotate regularly. On my server, we have NOT been red since the beginning of April. This is not ‘regularly’. I’ve gotten to where I’ve waited so long that I’m beginning to hate even going into WvW – this isn’t the way to get it some love, or support, its the way to kitten off casual/potential WvW’rs.

For those of us who play a few hours a night, and do dailies – mapping has NOT been possible. I know Im not the only person on my server with this issue, and I know recently several people who have transferred just for map completion. That situation certainly isn’t helping anyone, now is it?

Then this is another example of how Anet’s setup actually encourages players to switch servers and rewards those who abandon the lower tiers rather than supporting any sort of balance.

I don’t want to debate the relative merits or difficulty of PvE vs WvW. The game has all sorts of problems right now and what they do or do not change about map completion is really the least of my worries.

They were supposed to introduce a certain amount of ‘randomization’ to the match-ups to keep the tiers from becoming totally stale and ensure that no server is playing on the exact same map every single week. I guess that system isn’t working out very well in some cases.

cinemapaula.8673:

You assume the colors rotate regularly. On my server, we have NOT been red since the beginning of April. This is not ‘regularly’.

Joseph.9853:

Even rotation of colors is something that SHOULD have been implemented from the started, and not a system in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

This is a bit hard to explain, but they can’t actually guarantee a red-green-blue colour rotation for any given server because only 1 server per matchup will have each colour and the matchups change from week to week. Adding this as an additional constraint in matchmaking could produce very weird (and bad) results.

• Just to clarify: both before season 2 and after your server colour is based on your server’s position after a random number roll has been applied to the server ratings (up to about +/- 75). For example, for my server’s current matchup, we are the lowest ranked server. However, the RNG roll means that we’d have had a 20% chance of drawing blue instead of red. The fact that you do occasionally (and for servers close in rating, often) draw a different colour than the most probable one has led some people to believe that an actual rotation had been implemented. This is not the case.

If they fully randomized it, so that servers had a one third chance of drawing any given colour in each matchup, then after 4 weeks of matchups ~14/24 servers will have gotten only 2 out the 3 colours, and probably none will have got the same colour 4 times in a row. (about 4-5 for each colour) After 8 weeks of matchups, it’s still quite possible that 2 or 3 of the servers (about 1 each) will be missing one colour (by pure bad luck).

The current system is actually better than full randomization, except during tournaments. A server that is being placed green will on average tend to win and therefore move up into a tier where they will tend to draw red. The tournaments, however, created a big problem by locking servers into leagues where it was possible to win (or lose) 9 weeks in a row without moving up (or down) a tier.

There is only one server that has not drawn red since the beginning of April – due to the closeness of the ratings in your tier, you will have about a 45% chance of drawing red next week, 35% blue, and 20% green. These estimates are crude because I can’t be completely sure of what matchup you will get – but they are probably within +/- 5%.

I feel like the ridiculousness of this post doesn’t even need to be addressed. You want me to take 2 hours out of the Friday when I’m most likely able to play to allow you to map complete?

A far easier suggestion and a far less dramatic change would be to assign WvW matchups as they currently do, but after that randomly assign a colour so there is a likely chance that a server which is consistently green (or whichever) will get some variation in that. Maybe one week you’re green, the next you’re blue. Math says you’re going to get a lucky draw eventually.

You know, I have no sympathy for someone who just wants their map completion and get out, without having ever interacted with their server’s WvW community or even bothered to join the teamspeak/mumble server.

They should have something like:

Chicken Mode You have taken the easy way out and must walk this map as a chicken.

Once enabled, you are transformed into a chicken for 10 minutes and move 50% slower but are able to map. You cannot see your allies or enemies, you cannot see chat, you cannot chat, you cannot whisper, you cannot see upgrades, you cannot see sieges, you see the bare bones of the map and nothing more, and once mapping is complete or the timer runs you are kicked from the map. Chicken Mode can only be used once per 6 hours.

I think what it all boils down to for people who dislike WvW and need map completion there is that they don’t like to die.

How about adding an option to use the “Spirit Of Light” transformation from EOTM which makes you invulnerable. Once a week, for a maximum of 2hours and a maximum of 20 players, people are able to take the form of a Spirit Of Light and are invulnerable to all damage.
Requirements: You are unable to take this form if the map you are currently on has been 100% completed.

I dislike all the PvE’rs complaining and asking for ways around this matter but I also understand their gripe… My suggestion has various ways it could be exploited but if a suggestion cannot be exploited it is simply unviable like OP’s suggestion. So, the only real way to fix this matter is by removing WvW from map completion requirements otherwise there will always be flaws.

well there is a reason why they dont fix this :
no color rotation = more unhappy player = more trasfer = more chance someone buy gems

like messed up matchup(population balance) :
more stale matchup = more unhappy player = more chance someone buy gems

edit: yeah agree with Karuna.1357. Sorry saw your post later

cinemapaula.8673:

So.. you are forced to wait. Indefinitely. For months. =/

Yeah it has been months.. wait! years for me, I still need 60%+ of map completition in pve but I don’t want to kill mobs and do quests, why don’t the quests complete themselfs for me ?, I should at least be able to go to npcs and grab the rewards of other players work.

I want my golds and my world completition NOW :O, no joking.

…
..
.

Sad thing is that, as it is a PVE player suggestion, it might actually be done by the devs. Who cares for WvW, poor PvE player does not want to die in WvW and get his PvE stuff done!

Veeber.3192:

They should have something like:

Chicken Mode You have taken the easy way out and must walk this map as a chicken.

Once enabled, you are transformed into a chicken for 10 minutes and move 50% slower but are able to map. You cannot see your allies or enemies, you cannot see chat, you cannot chat, you cannot whisper, you cannot see upgrades, you cannot see sieges, you see the bare bones of the map and nothing more, and once mapping is complete or the timer runs you are kicked from the map. Chicken Mode can only be used once per 6 hours.

+1000 for chicken mode and lil chickens being forced to walk down the chicken path

This is a bad idea why should a entire community of WvW players be forced to sit on the sidelines whilst skill less players invade the borderlands to get a few vistas and points of interest. WvW has already lost EotM (the only wvw update in 2 years) to the pve karma train now you want us to give up the Eternal Battlegrounds as well no thankyou.

The main reason people want map completion is for the Gift of Exploration so they can make there legendary weapon and there is nothing legendary about taking a quiet stroll through a PvP environment. Suck it up and get on with it like thousands have had to do before you.

I did my 1st map completion on Devona’s Rest when it was rank 22-23 and it took me 5 weeks to get my final vista the green hills vista and when we took hills that day it was a true sense of accomplishment. I don’t think it would have been as meaningful if i could have walked through the front door no risk involved.

it’s funny. I don’t think wvwer ask for free dungeon complete tokens so they can skip dungeons for their legendary. It really isn’t hard to get map completion , the problem is with all the pver who are dead afraid of getting killed. Death means nothing don’t be so scared of it.

You get your POIs in WvW by playing WvW – camps of course you can sail through, and if your side has map domination you get lots of places, but you get the rest by playing.

Still, it’s a fair proposal. IF during whatever is the peak time for PvE play those maps have all of their farming and events suspended so that WvWers can rip through the maps fighting each other. Because fair’s fair, right? Also, turn off extra maps being generated while it’s going on, because it’s not like the queues of WvWers get to play any of their preferred mode. Insert various catlike references to EotM here.

You may like to recall that on your servers, whichever one you may call home, before the megaserver update… you saw plenty of people with stars next to their names and legendaries in their hands. Map completion is completely possible.

But you’re probably not going to get to do it the same way you do PvE, namely: solo.

Learn the game, guys. Different modes require different ways of thinking. And disrupting other people playing a more serious (because the results affect others) game mode so that individuals can get a non-functional achievement and future legendaries just isn’t on.

This would never happen because the ENTIRE reason you are forced to complete WvW maps for world completion is that the game developrs want you to TRY WvW and they’re hoping that you will like it and keep going back. I have seen a developer post this but can’t give you a link because search has never worked.

Plus this is just not a good idea and ya grow up and grow a pair and go die a few times… it won’t kill you in real life. This ain’t the Matrix. I could go for the chicken idea maybe LOL…but srsly….no.

How bout playing the game, helping your server win at WvW and the caps will come naturally. I had no problem getting 100% map completion on a low tier server and I found that WvW was fun and that’s all I do now. Go play the game, don’t complain about something that is not broken.

I have 5 characters with 100% WvW map completion and only ~20% PvE map completion.

Can I have my PvE map completion handed to me on a silver platter for zero effort please?

Ragnar.4257:

I have 5 characters with 100% WvW map completion and only ~20% PvE map completion.

Can I have my PvE map completion handed to me on a silver platter for zero effort please?

This made me Giggle!

BANANA!!

Ragnar.4257:

I have 5 characters with 100% WvW map completion and only ~20% PvE map completion.

Can I have my PvE map completion handed to me on a silver platter for zero effort please?

Yes Yes +10000

Personally i would rather die 50 time attacking lowlands then do all them god awful hearts >.<

I wish I had 1g for every time I’ve read this suggestion. I would buy all of the PvErs their stupid legendaries so they could pipe down for once..

The best suggestion here is the one where The Mists + Tyria each equal 1 gift of exploration.

I’m almost exclusively a WvWer and the only real PvE I participate in is the LS and dungeons/fractals. All of my characters have 100% WvW completion and (with the exception of two) roughly ~10% Tyria completion. Tyria is HUGE and the effort required to complete hearts and vistas is honestly tremendous compared to the effort needed to complete WvW. WvW completion comes naturally to you when you participate in WvW! You don’t need to go over the river and through the woods to get a tower POI. You enter the tower and you get it. At most you complete a little bit of a jumping puzzle to get a vista. It’s literally so simple. Fridays are k-train days. My server will flip enemy keeps anywhere from 2-6 times on Fridays. I truly don’t understand the difficulty.

PvErs get literally everything handed to them on a silver platter. And yet they still find reasons to cry. The entitlement is real! WvW doesn’t get bi-weekly updates. It doesn’t get bug fixes or new additions or anything to improve it. You guys have it really good, honestly. Meanwhile, if something goes wrong in PvE, ANet will literally stop the world from turning in order to fix it.

Tl;dr — This thread belongs in the recycle bin.

Dwolf.4358:

Actually, it is reasonable when you think about it.

There is a full week to WvW save when they do updates to the game, the same being for PvE, furthermore, you have wait times when it comes to normal reset plus map ques where you may or may not be competing with some individual who maybe is just trying to just get in a map, which would eliminate them as a spot taken on a map people want to get in on. Alongside that you as WvW players can step into PvE with freedom to move and map which PvE’s don’t get in reverse.

I don’t think shutting down an entire game mode is reasonable, unless perhaps there’s some other way to play WvW during that time period.
How about we trade: a couple hours of PvE in WvW maps for a couple hours of WvW in all of the PvE maps.

The problem is you can’t give each the Mists and Tyria a Gift.

How easy is it for a WvW’er to get 100% map exploration? Hours wise on a good server.

And right now the Gift of Exploration is the ONLY thing that actually requires playing WvW to get as it pertains to the legendary.

Gift of Battle requires Badges of Honor and gold. Currently. You get badges of honor from achievement point chests. It’s how I got mine.

Yes, in the future they will add World Rank to it, but you can buy that with laurels and badges of honor.

What I think they should do is split up the achievement into two parts and add a third. The third is the one that grants the title and gives out the Gifts. The third is like the LS meta achievement. Just a do X achievements from this category. Let the Mists and Tyria achievement give their own titles as well for the ones who are doing it for the title. And give each a star of their own. So there will be 3 map completion titles and stars. One for just the Mists. One for just Tyria. And one for both.

I’d vote for that chicken mode. XD Even better, “chickens can be attacked, but they have practically infinite health, and attacking one summons Ebonhawke chickens to attack their attacker.”

Sure I’m fine with this as long as I don’t have to step foot in a dungeon to get the things needed for a legendary

Blix.8021:

LOL. You want 2 hours on FRIDAY where people aren’t allowed to play wvw so you can map complete?

PwE. Players with Entitlement.

I made a new account less than two weeks ago and put it on an EU server because I wanted somewhere I can be anonymous sometimes. I know absolutely nobody on this other server. I had 3 of the 4 maps done before I was level 60. I got the 4th tonight because I remembered out of nowhere I was almost done with it. Not once did I have to ask a commander to hit a place. Not once did I have to siege something by myself to clear a point. Keep in mind I don’t care about legendaries, so this map completion was almost entirely on a whim. So lets recap.

-I knew nobody to ask for help or to run with
-I didn’t ask for help
-I didn’t siege stuff myself
-90% of it was done as an uplevel
- I did it in less than two weeks, about a week and a half actually

Yeah, WvW map completion is SO hard.

Then i want window of neutrality in dungeons, so i can just walk around and loot chests. Ohhh and make all boses hug me and give me loots when i talk to them!

This is a terrible idea. Stopping WvW just so people can walk around and get achievements?

A better suggestion is just to remove the achievements. I mean what is the point in having them if it’s as simple as AFK autowalking around each map for 5 minutes? There’s no point.

So 100% no support. fIf they want to do something drastic, they should remove the achievements, not ruin WvWers fun just just for the tiny number of people who struggle to get some achievements.

TinkTinkPOOF.9201:

Sooo….You want to make it a simple stroll to get map completion? The whole point is to say “I have done everything”, but by doing this, you have not, if thats the case you might as well just ask for map completion be removed from WvW, as a matter of fact, just make it so when you make a new character, once you log in you get instant map completion.

I find it funny PvE players have trouble with the ever so small set of WvW maps, but any of us WvW players who wanted completion or a legendary, had to clear ALL of the PvE content, and have to farm the hell out of PvE to be able to get the needed items for making one. But that’s the point of this, if you cant be bothered to learn all of the game and get good at it (which is not hard), then you don’t deserve map completion or a legendary, simple as that.

Amen. you want something done, you go work for it.