ACs useless for defense now?

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

I guess I am the only one that think this “nerf” did nearly nothing. ACs are still ridiculously OP and can hit pretty much everywhere they shouldnt with instant response and two skills active at once. Just a few more spots where its safe, thats about it.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: mulzi.8273

mulzi.8273

i think this hurts wvw long term. This will only promote large blobs. And if EoTM has taught us anything, this will eventually lead to folks not defending and running when the opposing blob is bigger.. Which means ktrain part 2.

short term we may seem some fights. But eventually the same servers with outnumbered advantage will wear everyone the 2nd class folks down. ACs was the main means to compete against the blob…

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Odokuro.5049

Odokuro.5049

You mean I no long have to worry about some AC hitting me from a spot that shouldn’t be possible, thank god…

The Self-Proclaimed Pervy Sage of Yaks Bend.
https://www.twitch.tv/amazinphelix

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: damnwidget.9301

damnwidget.9301

It’s just funny how some people thinks that defend a WvW structure is just use an AC from a safe place firing into places that it shouldn’t be able to fire instead of group, buff, get out and charge.

GG kudos, kudos.

[SoW] Sông Of War – Baruch Bay

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

It’s funny how rucksack chars think that they should get inside some some objective without trebbing. If 80 man blob stack in gate they should die against one defender because only idiot stack behind gate.

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Djamonja.6453

Djamonja.6453

ACs still seemed pretty useful for defense tonight. I don’t know if ACs are balanced though — too early to say maybe, not enough time to see how all the defensive AC spots work.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Delta.2093

Delta.2093

The AC is still very bad currently because backline can’t stand in AC fire and there’s no way to avoid it, no way to fight under AC fire — it’s the end of PvP (unless siege wars are considered PvP too, a different kind anyway). It’s very unfair, because shooting with an AC requires no knowledge, and still wipes out even the most skilled players, thus encourages unskilled play. IF the AC was meant as a way to end fights, then should be fixed weapon (like the cannon for example), well thought out why and where, and tested of course. Allowing it to be placed anywhere, it’s just a huge failure. Was tolerable in the first months, because the damage was low, but the game needed more ingenious solutions – the opposite to the increase in siege damage that followed.

Defending can be helped by adjusting wall & gate HP (if it’s about giving more time), limiting how many siege is allowed to hit it (so having 20 golems or 15 rams wouldn’t do go through faster than 5 golems or 5 rams for example), creating better, fixed to objective defensive solutions (protected cannons, oils, new items, placed in useful positions), giving +20% (or higher) health and damage to defenders inside the Lord room circle + debuffs to attackers if the group size ratio between attacker/defender is higher than 2x times, adding more defensive tools inside the walls (deadly traps, static buff/debuff circles), … and so on. Then test these and adjust.

Delta | Spell (M) | Bold (W) | Conde (N) | Sky (El) | Flames (G) | Heart (T)
[FUG/SG/TDT] on the Jade Quarry

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: briggah.7910

briggah.7910

But you still didn’t answer my question. How is wanting people to fight not a good argument? These are PvP maps. They are supposed to encourage PvP.

Answer is simple. If you want to find fights you WILL find fights.. If you can’t because acs bother you, you are doing it wrong…

happy now?

What’s bothering me is your inattention to what others are saying to you regarding how arrow carts affected fights and how attackers ended up zerging/blobbing more to counter. It is something that has been known for over two years now. How long have you been playing this game? Maybe you unfortunately have only known the WvW meta that came after the buffs to AC.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Update-on-Arrow-Carts-in-WvW/first

“Arrowcarts now have not managed to disperse zergs. They have managed to make the minimal group size of an effective gathering of players bigger. That means it encourages zerging.”

“You just turned it from AC Wars to Golem Wars.”

“I haven’t yet heard any dev specify that this change was introduced as a counter to zergs. There are dozens of counters to zergs, not least playing as a co-ordinated group with communication.

Zergs as you call them are not going way either. By your own admission you already need twice as many people now just to man a couple of rams so you can rotate them.

The changes have done nothing to introduce more strategies – they instead made the strategies incredibly stale and boring. Build lots of arrow carts when defending. Build lots of trebs when attacking. Sit around pressing one of three buttons or watch someone else do it.

If your hope that zergs will reduce is based on people just being bored out of their minds by the current meta game then I think you actually might be on to something. Less players enjoying the game should eventually mean less zergs."

And… let’s keep in mind that ktraining players can do damage to the gates in the first place. That was never a problem that needed solving by buffing arrow carts.

Whats bothering me about this whole thing is this change wasn’t suppose to do what it did and people are happy with it.. I don’t even read half of the nonsense you post so keep quoting me over and over.. If I hit a soft spot for you, you must be guilty of half the stuff I’ve said. If you were not guilty you would ignore me like many others do..

EoTM is the map for most of you if you want easy objectives.

Player Vs Everyone
youtube channel - twitch channel

(edited by briggah.7910)

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Sungtaro.6493

Sungtaro.6493

The Dev, from what I understand, says it is not what it is intended. Honestly in T4 haven’t seen a lot of impact. The number of arrow carts used in this tier is very small, especially compared to T2. Still not used to seeing less than five arrow carts in a keep defense.

So haven’t noticed a lot impact though it does look like they went overboard in the nerf.

We will see what adjustments will be made in the next couple of weeks.

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Sich.7103

Sich.7103

The AC is still very bad currently because backline can’t stand in AC fire and there’s no way to avoid it, no way to fight under AC fire — it’s the end of PvP (unless siege wars are considered PvP too, a different kind anyway).

If you want PvP just go to…. pvp….
WvW is not about PvP !! It’s about holding stuff, defending it, and fighting to take the ennemy stuff….
If you only want to fight without any siege / keep / wall / door go to pvp and stop asking to remove the Acs….

AC are so easy to counter, just build akitten#8230; cata or treb… Is that so difficult ?

Actually it take what 8H to fully upgrade a keep ? And you can take it down in 5min with your KT blob…. This is not balanced ! Defender need to be able to hold and slow down the ennemy blob to wait that the friendly blob can join to defend.
Canon are just useless, if you can use it 1 or 2 time it’s a miracle… We need defensive AC, they are a good tool for that. But offensive ac is stupid, wall are used against defender…

The really stupid thing is to see that a patch is out without being tested by the dev team…. That’s really incredible…

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: TheLastNobody.8319

TheLastNobody.8319

Seems like nobody in WvW actually wants to fight anymore unless they are outnumbering somebody else 50 to 1. So annoying. And as far as the AC thing goes, I’m glad it’s fixed but it’s gonna make defending a huge pain now since hey, stacking! God I wish they’d remove that crap for AoE attacks.

A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Swamurabi.7890

Swamurabi.7890

The AC is still very bad currently because backline can’t stand in AC fire and there’s no way to avoid it, no way to fight under AC fire — it’s the end of PvP (unless siege wars are considered PvP too, a different kind anyway).

If you want PvP just go to…. pvp….
WvW is not about PvP !! It’s about holding stuff, defending it, and fighting to take the ennemy stuff….
If you only want to fight without any siege / keep / wall / door go to pvp and stop asking to remove the Acs….

AC are so easy to counter, just build akitten.. cata or treb… Is that so difficult ?

Actually it take what 8H to fully upgrade a keep ? And you can take it down in 5min with your KT blob…. This is not balanced ! Defender need to be able to hold and slow down the ennemy blob to wait that the friendly blob can join to defend.
Canon are just useless, if you can use it 1 or 2 time it’s a miracle… We need defensive AC, they are a good tool for that. But offensive ac is stupid, wall are used against defender…

The really stupid thing is to see that a patch is out without being tested by the dev team…. That’s really incredible…

What you think WvW should be might not be what Anet thought WvW should be.

The reality is that it matters when you play, who you play against, and which tier you play in, which all affect how you play WvW. Siege isn’t equal in every situation, and it never will be.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: DaVid Darksoul.4985

DaVid Darksoul.4985

Funny that all those opposed to players defending forts are those who only WvW when they are in zergs and are useless without all the backup. I see it all the time where a huge group breaks into a keep vastly outnumbering defenders only to have wall or gate sealed behind them, thinned out by siege, then slaughtered by the few defenders who push them. I laugh so hard at their QQ messages about being siege humpers, haha such brainless fools.

WAR Platinum Necro, HoD BL roamer/defender. Solo Keep/Tower capper.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

Why anet wants that attackers have huge advantage?

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: DJ Klemintino.5781

DJ Klemintino.5781

The AC nerf is good. ACs were always way to cheap for what they did (in terms of supply). The nerf means players will now have to rely more on alternative methods of using ballis, catas and trebs with good placement for defense. It will take more supply to get to that almost unbreakable keep level and naturally slows down upgrades. Good change IMO, will just take some getting used to. ACs still have thier place in defense. Thier role has just changed from all purpose to more specific.

Also this change may have been done now due to the vertical nature of the upcoming new map. Some AC placements on the new map were kittened. Now they just wont work.

Klem | Klemintino
Leader of Tactical Fury [TF]
SoS Council Member

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

I don’t even read half of the nonsense you post

And that’s why no one should read you either.

Preventing zergs is not and never was supposed to be the intent of the arrow cart buff. That’s why LoS is finally being added to ACs. And zergs can still PvDoor through a gate with the ACs on them. That’s why the new WvW map finally has an upgrade where gates can only be damaged by siege engines.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

(edited by Chaba.5410)

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Kodiak.3281

Kodiak.3281

I like the AC changes. People building un-counterable siege was ridiculous.

Rather they err on the side of caution and not allow it than go back to AC’s that were impossible to counter.

Kodiak X – Blackgate

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

Idea was fix problem that attackers shoot inside tower/keep. Now defenders can’t even shoot outside if they build cart place where enemy can’t hit. Anet seems to want make karma training easier. At least they should make oil and cannon users invulnerable and oil and cannons should only take siege damage.

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

if they build cart place where enemy can’t hit.

How was it ever intended that defenders were allowed to place an AC where it cannot be countered? That is not balance.

I’m not saying the LoS implementation isn’t broken, btw.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: lioka qiao.8734

lioka qiao.8734

If a server holes up in a tower defending it they surrender all the surrounding territory to the attacker. All the attacker has to do is setup trebuchets. If they have a counter treb in the tower you build two trebs on opposite sides of the tower. One counter treb can’t defend against that.
The attacking force has the advantage of being able to resupply while keeping the defending force inside the tower. You don’t send everyone to get supply. Keep it to 5 people max per run and prepare the treb spots to counter rushes against them, positioning the main force to respond to either treb.

Anyway now that ANET did this they need to make tops of walls safer by implementing collision detection for AOE hits. Any AOE cast against the side of the wall should never damage someone on top of the wall. Projectiles at targets on top are fine.

Little red Lioka

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

if they build cart place where enemy can’t hit.

How was it ever intended that defenders were allowed to place an AC where it cannot be countered? That is not balance.

I’m not saying the LoS implementation isn’t broken, btw.

Because wall is wall and wall idea is give defenders advantage. Now wall is just disadvantage. You can’t do anything in wall because it’s full of red circles. Maybe walls should be over 1500 high so attackers can’t hit there, but defenders can hit ground.

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch

(edited by Junkpile.7439)

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

if they build cart place where enemy can’t hit.

How was it ever intended that defenders were allowed to place an AC where it cannot be countered? That is not balance.

I’m not saying the LoS implementation isn’t broken, btw.

Because wall is wall and wall idea is give defenders advantage. Now wall is just disadvantage. You can’t do anything in wall because it’s full of red circles. Maybe walls should be over 1500 high so attackers can’t hit there, but defenders can hit ground.

That’s always been a problem with the wall design, yes. So the fix for that is to the walls, not to have arrow carts that can’t be countered. Have you seen the new WvW map yet?

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Spurnshadow.3678

Spurnshadow.3678

I don’t know what you guys are talking about. ACs work just fine for defense. You just can’t place them in dumb places, like behind a wall, just like the attacking people. You have to place them in spots that you can directly see the enemy. This is only fair so they attackers have a chance to destroy the AC. What is wrong with that?

Blackgate Native. It takes tremendous strength and skill to pull a lever.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: slingblade.1437

slingblade.1437

if they build cart place where enemy can’t hit.

How was it ever intended that defenders were allowed to place an AC where it cannot be countered? That is not balance.

The ACs that are now broken due to LOS mostly could be countered, by a treb (not to mention large AOE and Dragon’s Tooth) but most commanders/zergs are too impatient to want to build trebs to clear siege. They’d rather just move on to an easier target. Now most all targets are a lot easier. T3 walls and 1700 supply mean very little now if you don’t have numbers at least roughly equal to the attackers. Coverage wars probably just got worse.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: slingblade.1437

slingblade.1437

I don’t know what you guys are talking about. ACs work just fine for defense. You just can’t place them in dumb places, like behind a wall, just like the attacking people. You have to place them in spots that you can directly see the enemy. This is only fair so they attackers have a chance to destroy the AC. What is wrong with that?

Have you tried to fire an AC from a relatively “safe” spot on top a wall in the last day or so? Directly seeing the enemy with your camera is not the requirement. It seems to be a straight line from the AC to the target area, with no wall edge in the way. They are broken.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Moonlit.6421

Moonlit.6421

I don’t know what you guys are talking about. ACs work just fine for defense. You just can’t place them in dumb places, like behind a wall, just like the attacking people. You have to place them in spots that you can directly see the enemy. This is only fair so they attackers have a chance to destroy the AC. What is wrong with that?

The fact that if the enemy can see it means they can bomb it and if your the poor guy sitting on it when that bomb drops you better get out fast or your going to melt along with your AC. Ele’s could already hit almost anything on the walls, even on the stairs with dragons tooth. Gonna be easier for em now, sucks to be that defender though lol

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

if they build cart place where enemy can’t hit.

How was it ever intended that defenders were allowed to place an AC where it cannot be countered? That is not balance.

The ACs that are now broken due to LOS mostly could be countered, by a treb (not to mention large AOE and Dragon’s Tooth) but most commanders/zergs are too impatient to want to build trebs to clear siege. They’d rather just move on to an easier target. Now most all targets are a lot easier. T3 walls and 1700 supply mean very little now if you don’t have numbers at least roughly equal to the attackers. Coverage wars probably just got worse.

Remember, I am talking about “cart place where enemy can’t hit” — such as what can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt7bivvaH3o. I also said I’m not going to disagree that the LoS patch is broken.

What you are saying about commanders/zergs too impatient to want to build trebs to clear siege can be said of some of these defenders who only want “cart place where enemy can’t hit”. There are a lot more options that defenders have to clear offensive siege too: trebs, ballistae, catapults, golems, and siege disablers.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Junkpile.7439

Junkpile.7439

if they build cart place where enemy can’t hit.

How was it ever intended that defenders were allowed to place an AC where it cannot be countered? That is not balance.

The ACs that are now broken due to LOS mostly could be countered, by a treb (not to mention large AOE and Dragon’s Tooth) but most commanders/zergs are too impatient to want to build trebs to clear siege. They’d rather just move on to an easier target. Now most all targets are a lot easier. T3 walls and 1700 supply mean very little now if you don’t have numbers at least roughly equal to the attackers. Coverage wars probably just got worse.

Remember, I am talking about “cart place where enemy can’t hit” — such as what can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt7bivvaH3o. I also said I’m not going to disagree that the LoS patch is broken.

What you are saying about commanders/zergs too impatient to want to build trebs to clear siege can be said of some of these defenders who only want “cart place where enemy can’t hit”. There are a lot more options that defenders have to clear offensive siege too: trebs, ballistae, catapults, golems, and siege disablers.

Have you ever even tried to defend something?

Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

if they build cart place where enemy can’t hit.

How was it ever intended that defenders were allowed to place an AC where it cannot be countered? That is not balance.

The ACs that are now broken due to LOS mostly could be countered, by a treb (not to mention large AOE and Dragon’s Tooth) but most commanders/zergs are too impatient to want to build trebs to clear siege. They’d rather just move on to an easier target. Now most all targets are a lot easier. T3 walls and 1700 supply mean very little now if you don’t have numbers at least roughly equal to the attackers. Coverage wars probably just got worse.

Remember, I am talking about “cart place where enemy can’t hit” — such as what can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt7bivvaH3o. I also said I’m not going to disagree that the LoS patch is broken.

What you are saying about commanders/zergs too impatient to want to build trebs to clear siege can be said of some of these defenders who only want “cart place where enemy can’t hit”. There are a lot more options that defenders have to clear offensive siege too: trebs, ballistae, catapults, golems, and siege disablers.

Have you ever even tried to defend something?

Frequently. One of my best defense memories was during Season 2 against HoD and YB 2v1’ing us at our garrison in early OCX. We were badly outnumbered, all gates and walls were pretty open, we were out of supply. And we kept beating them back through fights alone. It took them over 2 hours to take the objectives.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Johje Holan.4607

Johje Holan.4607

Remember, I am talking about “cart place where enemy can’t hit” — such as what can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt7bivvaH3o. I also said I’m not going to disagree that the LoS patch is broken.

Wow that’s some serious sieging. I thought I knew all the siege tricks but I guess there’s still more to learn.

Regarding AC’s, you need to be able to put them in impossible to reach by player places or else they become as useless as Cannon and Oil.

The problem with AC’s strength is the same as the problem with all siege. The problem is Superior siege. Prior to the 80% AC buff (which I do think was too much), normal AC’kitten like a wet noodle. You could just dance in AC fire and not worry.

There is no way to balance Normal Siege and Superior Siege. If Normal Siege is balanced then that makes the Superior version op. If Superior Siege is balanced then that makes the Normal version basically useless.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: briggah.7910

briggah.7910

I don’t even read half of the nonsense you post

And that’s why no one should read you either.

Preventing zergs is not and never was supposed to be the intent of the arrow cart buff. That’s why LoS is finally being added to ACs. And zergs can still PvDoor through a gate with the ACs on them. That’s why the new WvW map finally has an upgrade where gates can only be damaged by siege engines.

Most of what I say is sarcastic or me just being a skritt. LoS is finally being added to acs? Umm its being added because it was suggested to be added since the camera changes. You see that’s when this whole AC thing became a real problem for most. After the camera changes.

If you had problems with acs before the camera changes you do not know how to counter siege. Jana posted a good example of how to counter siege acs but not many do that anymore. They would rather move on to the next undefended objective.. That’s the way I see it.

No one but you keeps claiming acs were a way to stop zerging. They are a way to buy time but now they do not even do that. You can just stack near a wall now and be free of ac fire since acs in spots can only shoot out past the walls now.. If you actually tried acs since the change you would know this and see it as a bad thing.

Attachments:

Player Vs Everyone
youtube channel - twitch channel

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

If they’re going to make changes like this then they need to finally make garrison inner water gate reinforced with the upgrade, ram placement on that door is also out of whack.

A lot of siege placements can be countered, it’s just that people are too lazy to do it. When it comes to structures everyone just wants to brute force their way in with no resistance, and not bothering to look for the weak areas to attack instead.

When it comes to open field ac, don’t stand in the red circles, you know the same red circles that marks and wells and other aoes fall into, that you wouldn’t stand in. Not that I agree with open field siege either.

Also most of the people replying here play in the upper tiers where they bring zergs often to take things, and also played against YB, let me be clear, YB is on the extreme end of the normal, a lot of the lower tiers don’t go all out on siege like they do.

Lower tiers are filled with lots of imbalanced numbers, when your enemy brings 30 and you only got 10 you sure as hell ain’t pushing on them, maybe if their numbers get whittled down first sure, but requires, oh wait it was nerfed…

Finally, they should have just left us with 1 set of siege instead of regular and superior versions.

Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

I don’t even read half of the nonsense you post

And that’s why no one should read you either.

Preventing zergs is not and never was supposed to be the intent of the arrow cart buff. That’s why LoS is finally being added to ACs. And zergs can still PvDoor through a gate with the ACs on them. That’s why the new WvW map finally has an upgrade where gates can only be damaged by siege engines.

Most of what I say is sarcastic or me just being a skritt. LoS is finally being added to acs? Umm its being added because it was suggested to be added since the camera changes. You see that’s when this whole AC thing became a real problem for most. After the camera changes.

If you had problems with acs before the camera changes you do not know how to counter siege. Jana posted a good example of how to counter siege acs but not many do that anymore. They would rather move on to the next undefended objective.. That’s the way I see it.

No one but you keeps claiming acs were a way to stop zerging. They are a way to buy time but now they do not even do that. You can just stack near a wall now and be free of ac fire since acs in spots can only shoot out past the walls now.. If you actually tried acs since the change you would know this and see it as a bad thing.

Slow down. Read what people write to you and make an attempt to comprehend it before responding instead of this rhetorical equivalent of flailing about from sarcasm to accusations. LoS was asked for way before the camera change. It’s right there in the link you said you weren’t going to bother to read.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

(edited by Chaba.5410)

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: briggah.7910

briggah.7910

I don’t even read half of the nonsense you post

And that’s why no one should read you either.

Preventing zergs is not and never was supposed to be the intent of the arrow cart buff. That’s why LoS is finally being added to ACs. And zergs can still PvDoor through a gate with the ACs on them. That’s why the new WvW map finally has an upgrade where gates can only be damaged by siege engines.

Most of what I say is sarcastic or me just being a skritt. LoS is finally being added to acs? Umm its being added because it was suggested to be added since the camera changes. You see that’s when this whole AC thing became a real problem for most. After the camera changes.

If you had problems with acs before the camera changes you do not know how to counter siege. Jana posted a good example of how to counter siege acs but not many do that anymore. They would rather move on to the next undefended objective.. That’s the way I see it.

No one but you keeps claiming acs were a way to stop zerging. They are a way to buy time but now they do not even do that. You can just stack near a wall now and be free of ac fire since acs in spots can only shoot out past the walls now.. If you actually tried acs since the change you would know this and see it as a bad thing.

Slow down. Read what people write to you and make an attempt to comprehend it before responding instead of this rhetorical equivalent of flailing about from sarcasm to accusations. LoS was asked for way before the camera change. It’s right there in the link you said you weren’t going to bother to read.

That link only goes to show me that after 2 years people STILL can’t counter siege.. Sad very sad

Player Vs Everyone
youtube channel - twitch channel

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

I don’t even read half of the nonsense you post

And that’s why no one should read you either.

Preventing zergs is not and never was supposed to be the intent of the arrow cart buff. That’s why LoS is finally being added to ACs. And zergs can still PvDoor through a gate with the ACs on them. That’s why the new WvW map finally has an upgrade where gates can only be damaged by siege engines.

Most of what I say is sarcastic or me just being a skritt. LoS is finally being added to acs? Umm its being added because it was suggested to be added since the camera changes. You see that’s when this whole AC thing became a real problem for most. After the camera changes.

If you had problems with acs before the camera changes you do not know how to counter siege. Jana posted a good example of how to counter siege acs but not many do that anymore. They would rather move on to the next undefended objective.. That’s the way I see it.

No one but you keeps claiming acs were a way to stop zerging. They are a way to buy time but now they do not even do that. You can just stack near a wall now and be free of ac fire since acs in spots can only shoot out past the walls now.. If you actually tried acs since the change you would know this and see it as a bad thing.

Slow down. Read what people write to you and make an attempt to comprehend it before responding instead of this rhetorical equivalent of flailing about from sarcasm to accusations. LoS was asked for way before the camera change. It’s right there in the link you said you weren’t going to bother to read.

That link only goes to show me that after 2 years people STILL can’t counter siege.. Sad very sad

Why do you say that? A few posters were very clear about golems as counters and one even asked for golems to not be purchasable with gold. There was a time in WvW when golem rushes consisted of a zerg of alpha golems. These days a golem rush is 10-20 omegas. And they usually go after the ACs, mortars, cannons first.

The biggest problem I had with the new WvW map beta was that I didn’t get to see how offense and defense performs with a 40-man zerg doing a 10-20 omega golem rush against a defended structure.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

(edited by Chaba.5410)

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: briggah.7910

briggah.7910

I don’t even read half of the nonsense you post

And that’s why no one should read you either.

Preventing zergs is not and never was supposed to be the intent of the arrow cart buff. That’s why LoS is finally being added to ACs. And zergs can still PvDoor through a gate with the ACs on them. That’s why the new WvW map finally has an upgrade where gates can only be damaged by siege engines.

Most of what I say is sarcastic or me just being a skritt. LoS is finally being added to acs? Umm its being added because it was suggested to be added since the camera changes. You see that’s when this whole AC thing became a real problem for most. After the camera changes.

If you had problems with acs before the camera changes you do not know how to counter siege. Jana posted a good example of how to counter siege acs but not many do that anymore. They would rather move on to the next undefended objective.. That’s the way I see it.

No one but you keeps claiming acs were a way to stop zerging. They are a way to buy time but now they do not even do that. You can just stack near a wall now and be free of ac fire since acs in spots can only shoot out past the walls now.. If you actually tried acs since the change you would know this and see it as a bad thing.

Slow down. Read what people write to you and make an attempt to comprehend it before responding instead of this rhetorical equivalent of flailing about from sarcasm to accusations. LoS was asked for way before the camera change. It’s right there in the link you said you weren’t going to bother to read.

That link only goes to show me that after 2 years people STILL can’t counter siege.. Sad very sad

Why do you say that? A few posters were very clear about golems as counters and one even asked for golems to not be purchasable with gold. There was a time in WvW when golem rushes consisted of a zerg of alpha golems. These days a golem rush is 10-20 omegas. And they usually go after the ACs, mortars, cannons first.

The biggest problem I had with the new WvW map beta was that I didn’t get to see how offense and defense performs with a 40-man zerg doing a 10-20 omega golem rush against a defended structure.

You really want to keep going back and forth with me like little school girls? LOL at golems being a counter to acs. Today’s tactic is find an easy objective or move on if its defended. I’m sorry if I never had a problem with ACs until the camera changes.. I guess I just know more tricks than most do.

Player Vs Everyone
youtube channel - twitch channel

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

Remember, I am talking about “cart place where enemy can’t hit” — such as what can be seen in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt7bivvaH3o. I also said I’m not going to disagree that the LoS patch is broken..

lol, had no idea someone had translated the german ac shenanigans.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Ranger Emeritus.2905

Ranger Emeritus.2905

I must have missed something. Until recently you could build 2 acs, one on either side of the cannons and take out every piece of siege from the gate to the lord even the oil pots on blue side. Garrisons just as bad when they got inner. I lost 8 unhittable acs the last time I put out acs. Trying to counter them got me a ton of rocks falling from the sky. Trying to disable them got me a nice trip back to spawn. I respect the zergs that didn’t build those acs and pounded their way thru the gates. Haven’t checked on the new LOS but seems acs are still next to useless in defense. Zerg can take 2 steps back built 3-4 cats and kill everything on the walls countering. Also remember the HOD-YB or was it YB-HOD during the 2nd tourney. Great times watching HOD defend YB side in EB and YB taking our garr and sieging it up as only they can.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Chaba.5410

Chaba.5410

I don’t even read half of the nonsense you post

And that’s why no one should read you either.

Preventing zergs is not and never was supposed to be the intent of the arrow cart buff. That’s why LoS is finally being added to ACs. And zergs can still PvDoor through a gate with the ACs on them. That’s why the new WvW map finally has an upgrade where gates can only be damaged by siege engines.

Most of what I say is sarcastic or me just being a skritt. LoS is finally being added to acs? Umm its being added because it was suggested to be added since the camera changes. You see that’s when this whole AC thing became a real problem for most. After the camera changes.

If you had problems with acs before the camera changes you do not know how to counter siege. Jana posted a good example of how to counter siege acs but not many do that anymore. They would rather move on to the next undefended objective.. That’s the way I see it.

No one but you keeps claiming acs were a way to stop zerging. They are a way to buy time but now they do not even do that. You can just stack near a wall now and be free of ac fire since acs in spots can only shoot out past the walls now.. If you actually tried acs since the change you would know this and see it as a bad thing.

Slow down. Read what people write to you and make an attempt to comprehend it before responding instead of this rhetorical equivalent of flailing about from sarcasm to accusations. LoS was asked for way before the camera change. It’s right there in the link you said you weren’t going to bother to read.

That link only goes to show me that after 2 years people STILL can’t counter siege.. Sad very sad

Why do you say that? A few posters were very clear about golems as counters and one even asked for golems to not be purchasable with gold. There was a time in WvW when golem rushes consisted of a zerg of alpha golems. These days a golem rush is 10-20 omegas. And they usually go after the ACs, mortars, cannons first.

The biggest problem I had with the new WvW map beta was that I didn’t get to see how offense and defense performs with a 40-man zerg doing a 10-20 omega golem rush against a defended structure.

You really want to keep going back and forth with me like little school girls? LOL at golems being a counter to acs. Today’s tactic is find an easy objective or move on if its defended. I’m sorry if I never had a problem with ACs until the camera changes.. I guess I just know more tricks than most do.

Yes golems. I don’t know what server you play on, but I get the sense that you have never been exposed to the large scale long siege playstyle before and have only ever run into zergs of ktrainers due to being on an underpopulated server. That’s fine. I never disagreed with you about a need to slow down or stop ktrainers.

If you want to talk about siege tactics… there’s no better place to be for that than on Kodash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUB1Y8RNt2c

I was there when SFR hit this keep (SFR at the time being the rank 1 highest populated server). Their golems took out all the arrow carts first. Golems were eventually disabled and destroyed by mortars and trebs. SFR brought more golems. But Kodash quickly rebuilt all the arrow carts before the 2nd wave hit, which again were destroyed by golems. It was a fun time! It’s a very common tactic to use omegas for taking out ACs.

What I found interesting in the new WvW map was that omega rockets had their height nerfed and couldn’t hit ACs anymore.

Chaba Tangnu
Founding member of [NERF] Fort Engineer and driver for [TLC] The Legion of Charrs
RIP [SIC] Strident Iconoclast

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Jayne.9251

Jayne.9251

You never faced Vizunah. They beat all for siege.

L’enfer, c’est les autres

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Torgrim.3642

Torgrim.3642

I never understood the hatred towards AC only that attacker are lazy bunch who cant think outside of the box.

Every keep and every tower can be trebbed, if you whine about to much AC in a tower/keep build a kitten treb or 2 to shell them to oblivion.

Ohh no thats way to much brain thinking no we want to ram a door in peace without AC shooting down at us.
If AC are taken out or being nerfed then whats the point with the rest of the sieges, might aswell take away everything, tower camps, keeps and place flags across the maps to cap, Isnt that what you guys want, open field combat?

(edited by Torgrim.3642)

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: lioka qiao.8734

lioka qiao.8734

It’s quite simple.
Trebs take more time to take down a structure, giving them time to rally a counter attack. This attack ends up succeeding and half your zerg goes back to the silverwastes cause the karma train stopped, effectively ending the train completely.

That’s why AC’s are hated. They break fast karma trains. Combine this with counter trebs and trebs in keeps that can cover the nearby towers.

Little red Lioka

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Coldtart.4785

Coldtart.4785

ACs are hated because people that use ACs only use ACs and never fight even if they outnumber you. They just hide in their tower hoping their 111 spam will stop the big mean fight guild and run away when it becomes clear that it won’t.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Torgrim.3642

Torgrim.3642

ACs are hated because people that use ACs only use ACs and never fight even if they outnumber you. They just hide in their tower hoping their 111 spam will stop the big mean fight guild and run away when it becomes clear that it won’t.

Why dont your zerg build trebs to shoot them then?
Ahh I forgot it requires commander to acual use his brain.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Coldtart.4785

Coldtart.4785

After we treb them they wp and we still don’t get a fight.

Number 1 reason for pvd: doors are more challenging to kill than the siege monkeys defending them.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Shadow.3475

Shadow.3475

As i wrote before fix so you can’t shoot trough wall/gate, as it is now only place to put ac is behind gate… that way you direct fix so Treb/cat cannot shoot at inside of gate to destroy Rams, that way to remove supply you will need to lob in cow over the wall/gate and you can’t shoot up at roof and damage something on top of roof as you can in lord room in Garry. (Treb Cat was not meant to defend gates it was meant to shoot at enemy in distance before they came to wall and shoot down Wall/gates).

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Sungtaro.6493

Sungtaro.6493

ACs are hated because people that use ACs only use ACs and never fight even if they outnumber you. They just hide in their tower hoping their 111 spam will stop the big mean fight guild and run away when it becomes clear that it won’t.

Why dont your zerg build trebs to shoot them then?
Ahh I forgot it requires commander to acual use his brain.

I find this statement amusing. It really doesn’t take much knowledge or brain power to know how or where to place a treb. It is like claiming it takes more brain power to tie your shoes as opposed to using Velcro. Technically true, but not quantitatively significant.

Usually I find the issue with trebs for zergs is convincing the zerg to stay around the treb to defend it. It takes a command that the zerg has confidence in or I guess, someone who has a great music selection in teamspeak or lots of funny stories or can rap. Otherwise, people will wander off so when the havoc team comes to take them out, there is actually someone to defend the treb.

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.

(edited by Sungtaro.6493)

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Torgrim.3642

Torgrim.3642

ACs are hated because people that use ACs only use ACs and never fight even if they outnumber you. They just hide in their tower hoping their 111 spam will stop the big mean fight guild and run away when it becomes clear that it won’t.

Why dont your zerg build trebs to shoot them then?
Ahh I forgot it requires commander to acual use his brain.

I find this statement amusing. It really doesn’t take much knowledge or brain power to know how or where to place a treb. It is like claiming it takes more brain power to tie your shoes as opposed to using Velcro. Technically true, but not quantitatively significant.

Usually I find the issue with trebs for zergs is convincing the zerg to stay around the treb to defend it. It takes a command that the zerg has confidence in or I guess, someone who has a great music selection in teamspeak or lots of funny stories or can rap. Otherwise, people will wander off so when the havoc team comes to take them out, there is actually someone to defend the treb.

So It’s about lazyness and keeping the kids amused?
Thanks for pointing that out.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Sungtaro.6493

Sungtaro.6493

Oh I agree that to a certain extent. When the game first came out, I thought nothing about spending five hours trying to take a keep. It was what we would do and it was fun. Winning was fun back then.

Taking a keep now is more of a been there, done that, even sieging a keep. After you have done something about a thousand times, it loses its luster.

Winning that battle is pretty meaningless now. It really has no significant impact on the final score. Population and coverage is more meaningful in winning.

When the game was new, the thrill of winning a siege was enough to make up for the tedious aspects. Now, it is just not as interesting.

It is sort of like raiding. When you are learning the raid and you are actually challenged, it is great. When you have gotten good and still doing the same thing, well, you are watching Netflix while it is going on.

And to put it bluntly, most defenders are not competent enough anyway to require trebs. But then, I really don’t have a lot of complaints about arrow carts. You break the wall and/or door and kill the guy on it. The gank in my guild love that there is someone who won’t move when attacked.

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.

ACs useless for defense now?

in WvW

Posted by: Xeno.4610

Xeno.4610

ACs are hated because people that use ACs only use ACs and never fight even if they outnumber you. They just hide in their tower hoping their 111 spam will stop the big mean fight guild and run away when it becomes clear that it won’t.

100% agree. Seen this so many times – even if they outnumber you, they just sit in their upgraded keeps and spam 1 on ACs. I really think, that nerfing ACs will make more interesting fights in structures. I mean real fights, not dull siege spam.