Guild Wars 2

Cactus.2710:

Where did I say they weren’t important? L2R. What I said was that ANet has far better access to that information from the history logs than players would be able to describe. All ANet should have to know is place and time to research an issue if they wanted to.

I know how to read, your statement is nevertheless still crap. The idea that you’d expect someone to sit down and data sort based on a time and location stamp, where there is usually a concurrency of hundreds of simultaneous events looking for the one peculiar event that got through the tower… which would be nigh indiscernible unless they sat down tracking each and every player’s specific location over some width on the time stamp, is just mind boggling.

Not to mention that, on the by and large, people almost never submit anything useful like accurate time stamps, makes the whole thing all the more asinine. I know almost for a fact that many, many players don’t do kitten about bugs. They will see it, they will say waaaa!, and then they won’t lift a finger to report it. Of those who do, even less know how to actually be helpful in reporting a bug. I linked a post not more than five posts back, that shows a detailed bug report… and even then, the conditions cannot be reproduced exactly. Now imagine what your average gamer is going to report: “I smacked the tower, ended up inside tower. Please fix.”

The issue isn’t in the reports, the issue is in the claims that people have sent detailed videos showing and reproducing the bug. That’s the bigger thing because that makes me wonder where the hell those reports go… and I suspect they get buried and lost in the Bug Reports “department”. More times than not, I’ve seen bugs get sorted out on the(se) forums because the developer wasn’t even informed of the issue.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey that is me!!!! I noticed that I went through the gate <snip>

Reported for using in-game exploits.

VOLKON.1290:

Tower gates get glitchy, people complain.

Tower gates remain glitchy for a while, people complain.

ANet dev has the glitch happen to him, reports that on the forums to us plus the fact that they were able to gather and have some real data to pass on to getting it fixed at a high priority… people complain.

There’s a very distinct point here where complaining has no further value.

dude come on ur smarter then this. u ahve been a pretty logical poster in the pass.

People r not complaining that they r now working on and acknowledge it now. They r upset at the fact it has taken soo long, and the fact that he said over the thousand of ppl who have reported this, for 6 months now were to vague. By him saying that it was kinda a slap in the face to there player base, who have been playing and offering advice and details on thes bugs for along time.

It also says that all the other bugs we have been reporting on will prob never be fixed. Untill someone from anet Stumbles across it one day in wvw, when they actually play there game for more then 5 minutes.

You can watch like 50 videos on this bug from youtube alone, and im sure many ppl sent in videos with there bug reports. After all this is there game, and since they dont have test servers to actually look into this stuff, its up to them.

SykkoB.9465:

dude come on ur smarter then this. u ahve been a pretty logical poster in the pass.

People r not complaining that they r now working on and acknowledge it now. They r upset at the fact it has taken soo long, and the fact that he said over the thousand of ppl who have reported this, for 6 months now were to vague. By him saying that it was kinda a slap in the face to there player base, who have been playing and offering advice and details on thes bugs for along time.

It also says that all the other bugs we have been reporting on will prob never be fixed. Untill someone from anet Stumbles across it one day in wvw, when they actually play there game for more then 5 minutes.

There was no slap in the face involved or intended, I’m sure. Yes, it took awhile to get acknowledgement. We all know that. However, now that we (finally) have, people still going on about it are becoming like the chihuahua barking at a fly on the wall. Yip yip yip with nothing to be gained from it.

Maybe, just maybe, we could convince someone from ANet to share with us some ideas that would better serve with regards to reporting these types of things in a matter that will seem less vague? It would be a better expenditure of our energies, that’s for sure.

Dude its like anything else it life. You want change ??? u cant sit back be silent and expect it to happen. You fight for change, You yell as loud as u can till ppl with power listen, or others join u and u make it happen.

And im sure ur correct in the slap in the face not being intentional, but it still was a slap in the face. 6 months of ppl reporting this day in, and day out with videos and everything. Yet we were to vague, how much work did we need to do for them ???.

insanemaniac.2456:

VOLKON.1290:

Tower gates get glitchy, people complain.

Tower gates remain glitchy for a while, people complain.

ANet dev has the glitch happen to him, reports that on the forums to us plus the fact that they were able to gather and have some real data to pass on to getting it fixed at a high priority… people complain.

There’s a very distinct point here where complaining has no further value.

if we keep complaining, anet may realize that tossing devon up to be the forum kitten isnt quite enough to keep us happy. the complaints here are that we arent being listened to despite anets claims to the contrary.

Or that some people here are pretty entitled and difficult to please. I know which one my money is on.

Cosmic Sparklejunk.3514:

insanemaniac.2456:

VOLKON.1290:

Tower gates get glitchy, people complain.

Tower gates remain glitchy for a while, people complain.

ANet dev has the glitch happen to him, reports that on the forums to us plus the fact that they were able to gather and have some real data to pass on to getting it fixed at a high priority… people complain.

There’s a very distinct point here where complaining has no further value.

if we keep complaining, anet may realize that tossing devon up to be the forum kitten isnt quite enough to keep us happy. the complaints here are that we arent being listened to despite anets claims to the contrary.

Or that some people here are pretty entitled and difficult to please. I know which one my money is on.

i didnt know asking for bugs to be fixed was being entitled or difficult, it is after all there jobs.

i find it more insulting that the blame is being shifted to the player base.

i didnt know asking for bugs to be fixed was being entitled or difficult, it is after all there jobs.

i find it more insulting that the blame is being shifted to the player base.

I didn’t see that. What I saw was a dev saying that the reports provided did not give the type of info needed for them to reliably replicate and therefore fix that bug.

And I saw a lot of people using some pretty insulting language toward the dev(s). They’re people too. Treat them they way they’ve been treated on these forums and they’ll be less likely to listen to the users and start to feel that nothing they can do will make a difference. People aren’t motivated by negative reinforcement. That’s just human nature.

Cosmic Sparklejunk.3514:

i didnt know asking for bugs to be fixed was being entitled or difficult, it is after all there jobs.

i find it more insulting that the blame is being shifted to the player base.

I didn’t see that. What I saw was a dev saying that the reports provided did not give the type of info needed for them to reliably replicate and therefore fix that bug.

And I saw a lot of people using some pretty insulting language toward the dev(s). They’re people too. Treat them they way they’ve been treated on these forums and they’ll be less likely to listen to the users and start to feel that nothing they can do will make a difference. People aren’t motivated by negative reinforcement. That’s just human nature.

Well you would think After thousands of reports, they would START TESTING IT THEMSELVES, especially if ppl were being to vague. THey could also watch many many videos of ppl doing it.

SykkoB.9465:

Well you would think After thousands of reports, they would START TESTING IT THEMSELVES, especially if ppl were being to vague. THey could also watch many many videos of ppl doing it.

Most of the those reports were probably: “Bug on tower, fix please.”

Vena.8436:

SykkoB.9465:

Well you would think After thousands of reports, they would START TESTING IT THEMSELVES, especially if ppl were being to vague. THey could also watch many many videos of ppl doing it.

Most of the those reports were probably: “Bug on tower, fix please.”

Maybe, But im sure many of them had alot of detail and included videos evidence. Since there is no test servers its up to anet to run there own.

SykkoB.9465:

Maybe, But im sure many of them had alot of detail and included videos evidence. Since there is no test servers its up to anet to run there own.

Oh no doubt, but there arises a problem of quantity over quality that can often stifle the quality reports because they get buried. A useless report is sometimes not better than no report at all.

So quoting “thousands” is rather pointless.

It is time to throw a bit of oil on these troubled waters. When I posted the screens I had no idea that I had caught the nefarious Hugh Norfolk but I will attest to the fact that

A) He did glitch through the gate twice (both those screens of him were separate events)

B) He showed class in that he did not attack me but headed straight up the stairs to jump back out of the tower

So perhaps a little benefit of doubt is warranted here. First attempt was an “Aha! This is what they are talking about!” and the second was “Yep, that is how it is done!” sort of thing. All the politics and back and forth bickering are going to do nothing to help fix things and I am content that at least now this issue is now centered on their radar. They could probably fix it by closing that little hole between the gate and the gate frame.

Now a message for Hugh himself. Why do you waste your time on a server that needs 30+ people to take a tower manned by one lonely defender? Come on over to HoD and we will show you what real fighters can do. That bunch you are hanging out with is nothing more than a mindless “zerg” automaton; just think of all the trouble they just got you in! I mean they pushed you through the gate and tossed you under the bus. How can you trust such evil people?

I’m operating under the following assumptions:

1. The Anet team wants to put out the best product they possibly, reasonably can;

2. They are competent at their jobs and they know their product and code base better than anyone on this forum;

3. Like most companies they are working with limited resources and they are using their best judgment in light of 1 and 2 above to allocate those resources.

In short, I am assuming good intentions of the Anet team. Some people here do not or believe that there’s a “simple” solution that the team is too stupid to recognize. I personally have found very few simple solutions in life. YMMV.

Cosmic Sparklejunk.3514:

I’m operating under the following assumptions:

1. The Anet team wants to put out the best product they possibly, reasonably can;

2. They are competent at their jobs and they know their product and code base better than anyone on this forum;

3. Like most companies they are working with limited resources and they are using their best judgment in light of 1 and 2 above to allocate those resources.

In short, I am assuming good intentions of the Anet team. Some people here do not or believe that there’s a “simple” solution that the team is too stupid to recognize. I personally have found very few simple solutions in life. YMMV.

the fanboy is strong in this one

If by fanboy you mean reasonable person I’m happy to say that I agree with you.

Theftwind.8976:

It is time to throw a bit of oil on these troubled waters. When I posted the screens I had no idea that I had caught the nefarious Hugh Norfolk but I will attest to the fact that

A) He did glitch through the gate twice (both those screens of him were separate events)

B) He showed class in that he did not attack me but headed straight up the stairs to jump back out of the tower

So perhaps a little benefit of doubt is warranted here. First attempt was an “Aha! This is what they are talking about!” and the second was “Yep, that is how it is done!” sort of thing. All the politics and back and forth bickering are going to do nothing to help fix things and I am content that at least now this issue is now centered on their radar. They could probably fix it by closing that little hole between the gate and the gate frame.

Now a message for Hugh himself. Why do you waste your time on a server that needs 30+ people to take a tower manned by one lonely defender? Come on over to HoD and we will show you what real fighters can do. That bunch you are hanging out with is nothing more than a mindless “zerg” automaton; just think of all the trouble they just got you in! I mean they pushed you through the gate and tossed you under the bus. How can you trust such evil people?

Bumped for epic recruitment effort.

Cosmic Sparklejunk.3514:

I’m operating under the following assumptions:

1. The Anet team wants to put out the best product they possibly, reasonably can;

2. They are competent at their jobs and they know their product and code base better than anyone on this forum;

3. Like most companies they are working with limited resources and they are using their best judgment in light of 1 and 2 above to allocate those resources.

In short, I am assuming good intentions of the Anet team. Some people here do not or believe that there’s a “simple” solution that the team is too stupid to recognize. I personally have found very few simple solutions in life. YMMV.

the resource limitations are getting in the way of the teams ability to perform. anet has a few overworked codemonkeys without enough time to test the content themselves and not enough budget to have a qa/testing team. theyre so busy coding the next big thing that they dont have time to play or read the forums. 1 persons job description was changed to include “assuage forum denizens’ concerns”, and he complains he doesnt have enough time to do his job and also be on the forums.

its not that your 1 and 2 are false, its that theyre mishandling 3 by assuming the playerbase is too dumb to be a volunteer qa team.

Last night, I had the repair NPC in the NW tower come out through the still closed gate and attack me. lol

Caid.4932:

So after months of reports about a specific tower you never thought to go out and try and recreate the bug?
… Sorry its hard not to be a bit grumpy about this

Better late then never i guess

That’s easy to say here where there aren’t like 50 crazy things all happening at once. I had a similar brain fart when we encountered the completely bugged version of Simin and I neglected to record it b/c we so busy just trying to find a forum post with a method to FIX IT. ….it really can go any number of ways in the heat of battle :p

Cosmic Sparklejunk.3514:

2. They are competent at their jobs and they know their product and code base better than anyone on this forum;

They considered something like “There is a bug in tower X, if you leap through the gate you can get inside without opening the gate” too vague. Now they have the nerve to say " I also logged the bug and we will be investigating that as a high priority issue. " meaning that they are only investigating it now, half a year after the community pointed it out as a “high priority issue.”
So no, they are not being competent, they don’t know their product very well, they may know the code very well but it seems they can’t do much with it

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Most reports that we have received were very vague and didn’t give much more information other than the actual objective, but with the help of my QA and what I saw we were able to get a better repro and submit a more detailed bug for further investigation.

Excuse me but i reported something similar a week ago but the topic got buried and didn’t even noticed by you guys while there is video showing what is happening actually and i’m sure will give you a lead on why is those things happening.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Ranger-pets-walk-through-gate-walls-in-wvw/first#post2435144

its not that your 1 and 2 are false, its that theyre mishandling 3 by assuming the playerbase is too dumb to be a volunteer qa team.

I wouldn’t say that the playerbase is too dumb but I would say that non-professionals (and even some professionals) underestimate how much effort and detail go into providing a qa report of sufficient quality that it is actionable.

Cosmic Sparklejunk.3514:

its not that your 1 and 2 are false, its that theyre mishandling 3 by assuming the playerbase is too dumb to be a volunteer qa team.

I wouldn’t say that the playerbase is too dumb but I would say that non-professionals (and even some professionals) underestimate how much effort and detail go into providing a qa report of sufficient quality that it is actionable.

im inclined to agree, but i think theyre missing out on a huge opportunity to crowdsource leads to bugs they can only find by actually playing the game a LOT. when they get a response like this where a dev herps around and like 10-20 people say this bug has been known and reported for months with no action, theres a very real disconnect going on. its not like 1-2 people claim they saw a thief jump around too much while invisible and call it a bug or hack and get stifled by 5 others who use that build.

you can send a qa person to look into this lead. instead of locking and deleting posts mentioning the exploit, forward it to the qa team and have them pm the OP for info to reproduce, or get in game and meet up. THEN lock and delete.

its just handled so poorly, and is probably partially the fault of the CC team who get told “DELETE ANY THREADS TALKING ABOUT EXPLOITS” instead of “MAKE SURE THE QA TEAM HAS A COPY BEFORE YOU DELETE”… and partially the fault of some upper level manager… and the fault of no one at all for never adding 2 and 2. /speculation

Rookni.2469:

All the reports so far from players have been like

“Hey Anet. Towers are bugged. Can glitch through doors using leaps, smashes, teleports etc. Please fix”

And Anet have been all like

“Nope, not really sure. This is vague. Not sure What they mean with glitch through the door to get inside tower”

Then one of the devs glitch through the door

“Aaaaaah so this is what they ment by glitching through the door”

Aaaand this is why we only get Catapult Mastery

This report is very vague indeed. Were you hugging the gate or not? Was some siege arround? Were you attacking it all by urself? Which skill did u use, making u end up on the other side? With what professions are you experiencing this? Which towers are you talking about, just a few or all of them? And so on. Also talking about your connection and if you experience lags and so on (could be a communication error between server and client)…

Player reports are very vague and looking at what needs to be done in programming to understand some of the glitches require more, than you say ppl admitted. Instead of many ppl just trashing down a 2 liner on the bug, a bug report needs to include a bit more for the programmer to make sense.

This said, I agree that the delay between the first reports on this issue and the time you see a ANet guy investigating it is quite long…

TyPin.9860:

This report is very vague indeed.

player:
-cannot look at game logs
-need to have specific matchup to test it as you cannot change servers as you want

Anet staff
- have game logs so he can identify it better
-can change servers as he like so he can find perfect matchup to simulate this

So those reports are not vague.
Look i worlk in it department and I somebody gives me laptop with vague bug description like : sometimes it powers off, I need to acceprt it and test it. I cant just power it on, say it is working and send them away.
If your phone will have random reboots, you will take it to repair center and you would demand repairing of that fault. And fast. You will probably not have broken phone, with every day random reboots, for 10 months. You will bring it to repair center multiple times until they will fix it.

But Anet probably did not even bother to check those bug reports. Even report like: at this tower there is a glitch, i ported inside throu gate with blink, even this is a good bug report and they should investigate it.
But hey, 2 wvw guys and 4 living world teams. Guess about which part of gate is Anet caring more?

I agree with you that it takes too much time until we see an effort to fix the problem. I remember at the release that I phase retreated with my mesmer under the earth constantly. I wrote propably like 20 bug reports on this issue allone until it was fixed.

The question is, if ppl, who complain here in the forum, write bug reports in game. Just a vague description in the forum is just not enough. On the other hand, the bug report system in GW2 doesn’t give you the feeling that your report will be looked at. You could send those reports into the void and would have the same feeling about it’s effects.

And what do u do, when u have only vague describtions? You try to recreate the error yourself with the information you have. However, the time it takes from first encountering the issue until you see an recognizable effort from ANet is just plainly too long.

TyPin.9860:

I agree with you that it takes too much time until we see an effort to fix the problem. I remember at the release that I phase retreated with my mesmer under the earth constantly. I wrote propably like 20 bug reports on this issue allone until it was fixed.

The question is, if ppl, who complain here in the forum, write bug reports in game. Just a vague description in the forum is just not enough. On the other hand, the bug report system in GW2 doesn’t give you the feeling that your report will be looked at. You could send those reports into the void and would have the same feeling about it’s effects.

And what do u do, when u have only vague describtions? You try to recreate the error yourself with the information you have. However, the time it takes from first encountering the issue until you see an recognizable effort from ANet is just plainly too long.

Many ppl sent in reports with video evidence. All anyone has to do is search youtube for more videos also. There whole player reports r to vague argument is BS.

Vena.8436:

Cactus.2710:

Where did I say they weren’t important? L2R. What I said was that ANet has far better access to that information from the history logs than players would be able to describe. All ANet should have to know is place and time to research an issue if they wanted to.

I know how to read, your statement is nevertheless still crap. The idea that you’d expect someone to sit down and data sort based on a time and location stamp, where there is usually a concurrency of hundreds of simultaneous events looking for the one peculiar event that got through the tower… which would be nigh indiscernible unless they sat down tracking each and every player’s specific location over some width on the time stamp, is just mind boggling.

Not to mention that, on the by and large, people almost never submit anything useful like accurate time stamps, makes the whole thing all the more asinine. I know almost for a fact that many, many players don’t do kitten about bugs. They will see it, they will say waaaa!, and then they won’t lift a finger to report it. Of those who do, even less know how to actually be helpful in reporting a bug. I linked a post not more than five posts back, that shows a detailed bug report… and even then, the conditions cannot be reproduced exactly. Now imagine what your average gamer is going to report: “I smacked the tower, ended up inside tower. Please fix.”

---

The issue isn’t in the reports, the issue is in the claims that people have sent detailed videos showing and reproducing the bug. That’s the bigger thing because that makes me wonder where the hell those reports go… and I suspect they get buried and lost in the Bug Reports “department”. More times than not, I’ve seen bugs get sorted out on the(se) forums because the developer wasn’t even informed of the issue.

Not crap at all. Expecting a QA person to be able to methodically sort through the data logs seems to me way more valid than expecting a player to somehow be able to identify all the various factors (many of which he probably wouldn’t even recognize as relevant) that existed at the exact time of a bug occurrence during the heat of battle. In every other game I’ve played, all that was required for somebody to investigate a bug was time, location, and a description of what happened. The difference is that in those other games somebody actually gave a kitten about the problems.

In any case, we all know what happens to bug reports … complete or not, specific or not, accurate or not, multiple or not.

Cactus.2710:

In every other game I’ve played, all that was required for somebody to investigate a bug was time, location, and a description of what happened. The difference is that in those other games somebody actually gave a kitten about the problems.

You say this as if those other games ever fixed year long bugs.

The same problem occurs in every game, and you know it, time is an issue and when there are who-knows how many reports flying around, when someone submits a worthless report like “tower, please fix” with nothing else as information that report goes to the bottom of the rung.

You think a guy parsing data can find and then recreate some of the bugs that take thousands of iterations to even find? I think you live in some land of myth. Sometimes it takes seeing the bug first hand to understand it, sometimes people submit the most detailed reports ever and they are lost in transition. Either way, you’re going well out of your way to continually fulfill your wanton desire of making us all understand that “The devs just don’t care!”.

If you want to blame someone, blame QA the actual person in charge of sorting these reports.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey that is me!!!! I noticed that I went through the gate and immediately left because I didn’t want to take the tower that way. I also logged the bug and we will be investigating that as a high priority issue.

Hugh, Quit Glitching or NO MORE BEER FOR YOU!!!!
FYI Beer will be flowing in our BL Friday night, Come get some!

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

BlazeQ.1095:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey that is me!!!! I noticed that I went through the gate and immediately left because I didn’t want to take the tower that way. I also logged the bug and we will be investigating that as a high priority issue.

Hugh, Quit Glitching or NO MORE BEER FOR YOU!!!!
FYI Beer will be flowing in our BL Friday night, Come get some!

I don’t drink alcohol so that may be an issue. Now if you have water or apple juice then you are talking my language.

Also I wanted to thank everyone for your feedback and concerns about this specific issue and we are working towards a solution. Thank you for your patience and continued support, we at the WvW Team really appreciate it.

See you on the battlefield! >=)

How will you ever complete the Thirst Slayer achievement?

Btw, when/if this gets fixed. Does it counts towards the major improvements being done to WvW?

Rookni.2469:

Btw, when/if this gets fixed. Does it counts towards the major improvements being done to WvW?

Yes?

It sure is taking a long time

its been 1 patch cycle since the devs found out

insanemaniac.2456:

its been 1 patch cycle since the devs found out

It’s been like 4-6 patch cycle since the community knew and told them about it. lol

hugh thought they were too vague

I think I’ve sent about 10 reports about this, since I can glitch inside ANY tower/keeps/castle with my mesmer (with all the consequences that brings). So far the reports of other people abusing have been limited, but there were some incidents. Still not fixed.

Let me help you here, hope these screenshots aren’t “too vague”, since my reports got ignored I guess.

Pavel.8531:

Let me help you here, hope these screenshots aren’t “too vague”, since my reports got ignored I guess.

This situation with thieves can sadly easily be recreated in bay all the way to inner.. SO a party of 5 thieves could flip bay ;c Seen it abused in the lower tiers a few times.

It does need fixing asap.

I will admit, ive done it myself by accident, either dodged and rolled through a wall, been pushed or somehow shadow stepped.

Either way, in all cases I have either tried to get back out or WP back.

Aisunokami.6430:

It does need fixing asap.

Asap – since 6 to 12 months….

Some things aren’t as easily fixed as some of you would like to think. If they didn’t get around to fixing it in the previous update, maybe it’ll happen during the next – Or the one two weeks after that.

Updates have picked up a lot of momentum lately. I’m sure they’ll get around to fixing it eventually ^^