Guild Wars 2

Little structed WvW Guilds can’t win against a huge enemy zerg. An AOE into the enemy hits only 5 targets. The huge enemy zerg cast AOE into us and all of us are hit. Buffs and heals to us are completely randomly. Why aren’t party members preferred?…

A huge Zerg win against a little structed Raid….
Its the maths behind this system.

Many structed Guilds will leave this game when there isn’t a change in the future.

Siege weapons have no aoe cap. Find a choke point and go to it. I’ve seen a handful of ballistae eat zergs.

Siege AoE doesn’t have a cap. If it does, then it’s well over 30.

Even big guilds can’t win WvW if they’re outnumbered 3 to 1. It just isn’t possible. The current state of WvW is a number game. After you reach a certain number of people strategy is null.

Maybe the AoE cap could be removed/incresed as part of the outmanned buff.

This would help when its just you and a few of your Guildies defending that fort or during your server’s off peak times(not going to call it night time) so you have a little bit of a chance when facing that huge Zerg you accidently stumbled across

Omg…Ghostchip. Go post that in the Suggestion Forum. RIGHT NOW. That is the best idea ever. I mean, a zerg suffers nothing with this change. But it gives those outmanned players a chance to actually “win”.

Your brilliant!

Right now skill has almost no impact on the outcome of a battle, it’s all about numbers. If you put 10 skilled players up against 30 mediocre or even low skilled players the 30 will most likely still win if they simply hold their ground and (ab)use the mechanics in this game (downed state etc).

I have made these claims before in the T1 EU WvW thread with simple math. Here’s the short version:
10 people can at max hit 50 people (10×5) which means that at best everyone on the opposing team gets hit by one AoE and another 66,67% gets by two (30+(30*0.6697)).
30 people can at max hit 150 people (30×5) which means that if everything hits every single person on the opposing team gets hit by 15 AoE’s (10×15).

Even if you would try to factor in skill in some way and make it account for 50% less AoE damage it would still be 7,5 hits per head on the smaller team.

That’s just the DAMAGE the two teams can do.. If you then think about the downed state mechanic it almost becomes impossible to kill someone in the bigger zerg because all they have to do is press that revive button and the downed person is up before you know it.
Now I know what most people will say, it’s “Yeah but if you focus on the downed person you will also hit the people ressing”. To which I would say “Sure thing buddy” but let’s go to extremes and say that of the 30 people zerg 1 gets downed, 5 go revive that still leaves 24 (30-1-5) people trying to kill your little group of 10.

Removing the AoE cap won’t work either, because with the current damage of abilities it would theoretically mean that a single Ele could destroy a zerg while sitting on a wall.
If they want to make WvW into a competitive skillbased environment they will have to redo most of the current mechanics imo, which is not going to happen.

If you somehow disagree with what I have explained about everything, feel free to join in on the old T1 EU WvW thread where appearantly its normal to beat 3 to 1 ratio battles. I have yet to see any proof of it but a lot of my server buddies claim to do so.

Same.4687:

Right now skill has almost no impact on the outcome of a battle, it’s all about numbers. If you put 10 skilled players up against 30 mediocre or even low skilled players the 30 will most likely still win

I can give you several examples where a team of 5 well-organised people hold their ground against 10-15-20 people.

One of those 5 people was me, and I am not THAT good

You can’t take a keep that’s defended by 15 mediocre people with 5 good players, that’s true, but you can certainly defend a keep 5 good versus 15 mediocre.

Holding ground isn’t beating. Which I was referring to.

You can hold a tower/keep with 5 vs 20. I agree. Siege is awesome.

However in open field battle 5 vs 20 doesn’t work. A 2 to 1 ratio battle works but it really requires the bigger team being a bunch of kitten. However if you scale it to 3 to1 or higher it becomes highly unlikely that you will win no matter how dumb the opponent is. This is a theoretical but mathematical issue set into a game by limitations.

Wow, that would be great. I look forward to mowing down whole groups of 40+ with glass cannon build, 8-10 stacks of might, culling and spinning dagger.

I can see every 40+ zerg commander partying with guardians, saying “stack on me” and after waiting for the aoe telling them to say 3 words: “Stand your ground!”. I’d love to see this, please remove the limit on everything

IMO the main problem of open field 5vs20 is downed state. You can handle to jump the zerg and down a few targets very fast. But at the same time a zerg rezzes downed players in like no time.

As long as you cannot prevent the zerg to rezz downed players instantly you dont have the ghost of a chance.