Guild Wars 2

A couple of the achievements are actually harmful to WvW gameplay.

I’m thinking specifically of the one that requires you to use supply. This one encourages people to find a wall that’s being trebbed and use the available supply repairing it. Every WvW player knows that’s a bad idea, likely to annoy people who are trying to play properly. It used to be a rare event, usually someone who didn’t know. Now it’s become commonplace.

Then there’s ‘Demolition expert’. This encourages people to jump on siege equipment without mastery and actually slows down the group trying to break down a door/wall.

Add to that the couple that require you to kill guards or Dolyaks. The numbers required are huge and it’s actually quite difficult to get a ‘tag’ on things. The result is a mad scramble to be the first to steal the kill.

In general, seasoned WvW players are trying to work around these problems but the influx of PvE oriented players who have no interest in WvW but are there simply to get a tick in the box is causing friction that is quite clear in the chat messages being exchanged and in this forum.

This is only the second week on League with these new achivements. Wait one more week, all those PvE players wil get their achivements done and then they will go back to PvE.
And maybe toda ywith new update, most people will not log into wvw.

It takes time to get these achievements, even when servers actively collaborate to get them done.

In seven weeks time there will be a new season and it will start all over again.
It’s going to get worse, not better.

What? All my guildies play about 1-2 hours per day and most of them got 11 from 15 achivements. Some of them got key already.
If those PvE guys are really farming, they can do it very quickly because you need just 15 achivements to get key. other is optional.
And we dont had good matchups to farm, first you could not go solo last week in eb because of blobs there, now mercenaries almost dont flip. But many people already done it.

That’s irrelevant.
How fast you or your friends can do it is not the issue.

I said it’s causing friction between WvW and PvE players. If you want to argue that it isn’t, go ahead but don’t try to tell me it doesn’t matter.

Imo they should delete the following achievements :

- Mists Merc Camp Vanquisher
- Master of Ruins
- Demolition Expert
- Seasonal Mists Defense Restorer
- Sentry Capturer Extraordinaire

Add to it, the fact that there is only 1 Eternal Battleground in which you have take a castle 5 times and those camps. I’ve been on EB once so far this season, it is by FAR the longest que, because these two achievements can only be done in there.

Edit: Here is a fix… Turn the EB into an overflow, worth nothing to any world, but a place where you can fight others and farm.

The camps one is just plain daft. Nobody cares what the Ogres, Hyleks and Dredge are doing.
We might mop them up if we are passing through – maybe. Otherwise we just ignore them.

Having to do that ‘event’ several thousand times (whatever!) is ridiculous.

Contiguous.1345:

It takes time to get these achievements, even when servers actively collaborate to get them done.

In seven weeks time there will be a new season and it will start all over again.
It’s going to get worse, not better.

What new season or are you making this up for effect, last I heard season 2 wont be for a whiles, especially as the new map isn’t anywhere near ready for test.

WvW was placed into a PvE area of the game and players are free to come and go whether there are achievements or not. If a few player hitting a door with a ram without mastery is causing you so much grief then perhaps build another and use your mastery.
Repairing gates and such might be a poor use of supplies I grant, but actually its not just PvE’ers I see doing it.. we all want the achievements done so blaming one side of the game is just lame.. have you got yours yet?
This post all about the “LOOK AT ME – I’m a stalwart WvW pro, do as I say noob!”
As for the chat wars in game, its likely players like you that incite it if this thread is anything to go by – I wonder how you did on your first ever steps into EB, you never know some of these players might actually get past players like you and begin to enjoy WvW, heck they might even come back for more after the season ends. Don’t know about you but I see that as positive, especially on Underworld otherwise were gunna have to start herding the rabbits and mosquitos to fight our battles!
Now go play like nice like mom told ya.

You don’t actually need to use the siege equipment to get the demolition achievement. I’ve gotten credit for 5 doors just for the tiny bit of damage I did with my bow in the last 30 seconds or so before the door goes down. Of course some PvE players might not know that, but they should be able to figure it out relatively quickly.

(Afterall I am one of those PvE players and I worked it out after the first time.)

The guard killer achievement also seems ok to me because I’ve made most of my progress towards it while taking towers and keeps with the zerg. There’s also the odd guards scattered around on roads but if you focused on them you’d be there all month just doing the one achievement.

Personally I think there really need to be more achievements for defending things because the one thing the achievements really seem to encourage (and I’m seeing it from both PvE players and established WvW players) is flipping. Take a keep or tower or even Stonemist then abandon it completely with minimal defences so someone else can take it, then take it back, ad infinitum. Which seems wrong really, and since there are events for defending the various structues it seems like something it’d be easy to add an achievement for.

Maybe that can be season 2?

Bloodstealer.5978:

Contiguous.1345:

It takes time to get these achievements, even when servers actively collaborate to get them done.

In seven weeks time there will be a new season and it will start all over again.
It’s going to get worse, not better.

What new season or are you making this up for effect, last I heard season 2 wont be for a whiles, especially as the new map isn’t anywhere near ready for test.

WvW was placed into a PvE area of the game and players are free to come and go whether there are achievements or not. If a few player hitting a door with a ram without mastery is causing you so much grief then perhaps build another and use your mastery.
Repairing gates and such might be a poor use of supplies I grant, but actually its not just PvE’ers I see doing it.. we all want the achievements done so blaming one side of the game is just lame.. have you got yours yet?
This post all about the “LOOK AT ME – I’m a stalwart WvW pro, do as I say noob!”
As for the chat wars in game, its likely players like you that incite it if this thread is anything to go by – I wonder how you did on your first ever steps into EB, you never know some of these players might actually get past players like you and begin to enjoy WvW, heck they might even come back for more after the season ends. Don’t know about you but I see that as positive, especially on Underworld otherwise were gunna have to start herding the rabbits and mosquitos to fight our battles!
Now go play like nice like mom told ya.

Like I said. It’s causing friction. You just proved my point.

Bloodstealer.5978:

…we all want the achievements done so blaming one side of the game is just lame.. have you got yours yet?

This is where you’re wrong. Most W3’ers don’t care for the achievements at all.

I actually go out of my way to not do them.

sminkiottone.6972:

Imo they should delete the following achievements :

- Mists Merc Camp Vanquisher
- Master of Ruins
- Demolition Expert
- Seasonal Mists Defense Restorer
- Sentry Capturer Extraordinaire

Why? The only one in your list that is remotely difficult is the mercenary camps, and only because there are only 3 of them, all in EB. Plenty of regular WvW players don’t like to play in EB because of the lag and now the Q times.

Master of Ruins? Stupidly easy and accomplished nothing but I did it in a couple of hours with friends and beat up a few visitors too. That part was fun and added to my kills number.

Demolition Expert? Set your own siege and get your friends to build it. Take turns, and ignore the guys yammering on about ram mastery.

Seasonal Mists Defense Restorer? Nobody is ever going to complain about this one so long as you’re not using tower/keep supply to repair during a treb storm.

Sentry Capturer (sic) Extraordinaire? Yeah, that one is a bit high, along with yak-killer, but they’re doable. Just go roaming to take out the guards, yaks and camps. Hell, that’s what our guild does in this game.

What’s missing are the Defense Achievements.

Defend Stonemist Castle 10 times! Hell yeah, you had to capture it 5 times, why not defend it? We had to capture 10 keeps? Let’s defend them 20 times. Camps too! We had to capture 100? Why not defend at least 100 times as well.

That would break up the zerging karma choo-choo train!

Now about those jumping puzzles….

It’s not the relative difficulty of the tasks.

It’s the fact that they have no value to your server in WvW. In fact they are counter-productive.
That’s why people are fighting over it.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

sminkiottone.6972:

Imo they should delete the following achievements :

- Mists Merc Camp Vanquisher
- Master of Ruins
- Demolition Expert
- Seasonal Mists Defense Restorer
- Sentry Capturer Extraordinaire

Why? The only one in your list that is remotely difficult is the mercenary camps, and only because there are only 3 of them, all in EB. Plenty of regular WvW players don’t like to play in EB because of the lag and now the Q times.

Master of Ruins? Stupidly easy and accomplished nothing but I did it in a couple of hours with friends and beat up a few visitors too. That part was fun and added to my kills number.

Demolition Expert? Set your own siege and get your friends to build it. Take turns, and ignore the guys yammering on about ram mastery.

Seasonal Mists Defense Restorer? Nobody is ever going to complain about this one so long as you’re not using tower/keep supply to repair during a treb storm.

Sentry Capturer (sic) Extraordinaire? Yeah, that one is a bit high, along with yak-killer, but they’re doable. Just go roaming to take out the guards, yaks and camps. Hell, that’s what our guild does in this game.

What’s missing are the Defense Achievements.

Defend Stonemist Castle 10 times! Hell yeah, you had to capture it 5 times, why not defend it? We had to capture 10 keeps? Let’s defend them 20 times. Camps too! We had to capture 100? Why not defend at least 100 times as well.

That would break up the zerging karma choo-choo train!

Now about those jumping puzzles….

People like you are the reason WvW is going to S**t

Reading at your reply makes me a sad panda, pls go back to farm in PvE.

Please guys, This thread is intended to be a discussion about the arguments.

Not a place to continue them.

I felt that “friction” you where talking about :/

@ Herr der Friedhoefe.2490, sry man ! I was a bit acid, mea culpa.. it’s just.. I don’t know ? it’s sad to ear certain things and see pvers farming temples/sentry like there was no tomorrow :/

sminkiottone.6972:

People like you are the reason WvW is going to S**t

Reading at your reply makes me a sad panda, pls go back to farm in PvE.

Poor you, but WvW is about all I do these days.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

sminkiottone.6972:

People like you are the reason WvW is going to S**t

Reading at your reply makes me a sad panda, pls go back to farm in PvE.

Poor you, but WvW is about all I do these days.

Hey, he apologised to you – try to be civil.

Obsidian.1328:

Bloodstealer.5978:

…we all want the achievements done so blaming one side of the game is just lame.. have you got yours yet?

This is where you’re wrong. Most W3’ers don’t care for the achievements at all.

I actually go out of my way to not do them.

Actually this is where I am right.. UW keep approx. 20mins ago.. lots of players who I have seen in wvw before were sat at a wall being trebbed from SM just running supplies back and forth from the supply dump next to the wall.. we went from 260 supps to zero in like 3mins… luckily just after that the New Build messages started appearing, which of course set the rest of the players into a mad frenzy to get the repair achieve so Veloka supps got emptied as well – and there I was thinking WAR guild were supposed to be promoting themselves as one of “the” UW guilds supporting WvW since the exodus
It was just funny to see especially after this thread had been live a few hours already, deep down we all look to get the achievs, you might be 1 of a few but essentially we do them anyway whether are trying to by nature or by chance.

Contiguous.1345:

Bloodstealer.5978:

Contiguous.1345:

It takes time to get these achievements, even when servers actively collaborate to get them done.

In seven weeks time there will be a new season and it will start all over again.
It’s going to get worse, not better.

What new season or are you making this up for effect, last I heard season 2 wont be for a whiles, especially as the new map isn’t anywhere near ready for test.

WvW was placed into a PvE area of the game and players are free to come and go whether there are achievements or not. If a few player hitting a door with a ram without mastery is causing you so much grief then perhaps build another and use your mastery.
Repairing gates and such might be a poor use of supplies I grant, but actually its not just PvE’ers I see doing it.. we all want the achievements done so blaming one side of the game is just lame.. have you got yours yet?
This post all about the “LOOK AT ME – I’m a stalwart WvW pro, do as I say noob!”
As for the chat wars in game, its likely players like you that incite it if this thread is anything to go by – I wonder how you did on your first ever steps into EB, you never know some of these players might actually get past players like you and begin to enjoy WvW, heck they might even come back for more after the season ends. Don’t know about you but I see that as positive, especially on Underworld otherwise were gunna have to start herding the rabbits and mosquitos to fight our battles!
Now go play like nice like mom told ya.

Like I said. It’s causing friction. You just proved my point.

I didn’t say it wasn’t causing friction, but your attitude to it only makes it worse.. rise above it and move on, its such a non issue its not worth more than a few lols in map chat at best.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

sminkiottone.6972:

Imo they should delete the following achievements :

- Mists Merc Camp Vanquisher
- Master of Ruins
- Demolition Expert
- Seasonal Mists Defense Restorer
- Sentry Capturer Extraordinaire

Why? The only one in your list that is remotely difficult

It’s not about difficulty. None of those “achievements” is particularly difficult to be fair. I think the point is that those achievements make people do useless stuff instead of helping were they are actually needed. That’s why they should be removed completely or/and replaced with something actually useful. People flipping merc camps, sentries and wasting supplies to repair paper walls are dead weight on the map.
Master of ruins is the only one that’s useful if people on maps won’t go full kitten with exchanging ruins with enemies. Bloodlust is really a nice buff to have.

Contiguous.1345:

It’s not the relative difficulty of the tasks.

It’s the fact that they have no value to your server in WvW. In fact they are counter-productive.
That’s why people are fighting over it.

I don’t know if this was in response to my post as well as others but just in case it was that’s what I was trying to say.

Admittedly I’m still new to WvW but as I understand it a general rule of thumb is that if you’re running with a commander and they’re not completely useless (one last night lead us out to the north of the borderlands, ran in circles for a while and then WP back to the keep) then you’re doing something constructive for the server – generally capping and/or holding various places.

So the achievements I listed are ones where I’ve made most of the progress while doing that, rather than having to go off on my own or ignore orders during a battle for the sake of achievement points.

Creating disparate objectives within a game that requires teamwork and shared objectives among players is ALWAYS a bad idea that causes friction and animosity, and it’s a pit that ANet has repeatedly and spectacularly fallen into.

PhoenixDown.5467:

Master of ruins is the only one that’s useful if people on maps won’t go full kitten with exchanging ruins with enemies. Bloodlust is really a nice buff to have.

Nope, if it was better implemented maybe, right now if my server has already the buff I can still cap the temples and get the achievement.

I am amazed on how anet say 1 thing and does the opposite, I recall Devon’s remark on this particular subject about 1 month ago, he said that they would not give reward for capping the temples because it was too easy to exploit, I’m buffled and concerned about him.

sminkiottone.6972:

PhoenixDown.5467:

Master of ruins is the only one that’s useful if people on maps won’t go full kitten with exchanging ruins with enemies. Bloodlust is really a nice buff to have.

Nope, if it was better implemented maybe, right now if my server has already the buff I can still cap the temples and get the achievement.

I am amazed on how anet say 1 thing and does the opposite, I recall Devon’s remark on this particular subject about 1 month ago, he said that they would not give reward for capping the temples because it was too easy to exploit, I’m buffled and concerned about him.

I agree that ruins need much more thought then they were actually given by anet, but I meant that people capping ruins to earn bloodlust are actually somewhat useful for the server.

PhoenixDown.5467:

I agree that ruins need much more thought then they were actually given by anet, but I meant that people capping ruins to earn bloodlust are actually somewhat useful for the server.

Yes, I agree.
The bloodlust is helpfull and gives more depth to the game, shame anet didn’t tought this trough

These are the only 2 I have and issue with.

- Mists Merc Camp Vanquisher
- Demolition Expert

But I will add jumping puzzles.

I have one character with ram mastery so I always back off and let someone else use it. And last night I grabbed a ram with my ram mastery and got kicked by the owner. It does cause a lot of arguments and is hard to get for those who rarely get a chance to operate siege. The answer is not, “just be the jerk who does not want to get along with their team.”

As some already said, the merc camp is just “daft.” No idea what brain thought of this one. If they had made it 10 instead of 50 I might not have minded so much. Only 30 towers but 50 merc camps perfectly illustrates how little Anet understands or plays WvW. Most serious players probably had 30 towers in the 1st week if not first few days. It probably should have been 250 towers to get the full reward.

As someone else said, the que for EBG is often the longest. And if you are playing against a server with a huge population, it makes it really hard to get the merc camps. Often all you accomplish by trying to do them is you get to flip them gray so the enemy can then flood in and take them..and then THEY get credit. I’ve taken to just letting them stay the enemy color so they can’t flip them back. If I can’t get credit then certainly not going to make it easier for them to it.

Sadly, I’ll be forced to do stupid jumping puzzles instead now. They should not be part of the achievements IMO. It’s PvE not WvW and the puzzle has no effect on WvW. Completely pointless. Nothing worse than trying to hold off a huge enemy zerg trying to take your garrison, and someone in chat asking for players to come clear enemy campers out of puzzle instead of helping defend.

Completely agree, having the League was one thing. Adding the achievements at the same time was, at best, trolling the regular WvW player’s. PvP players and Guild’s don’t have the best reputation for getting along with PvE’ers as it is.

If they had the achievement two weeks prior to try and encourage League participation, that would have been better. Though any random influx of temporary player’s in WvW often wreaks havoc with it. I hope the Dev’s remember this well.

Achievements should be added as a way to guide the masses but don’t be grindy so it will scatter the population so they won’t help the server.

Regarding captures and kills:
SM, keep and tower captures around the right amount of grind
Camps feel a bit higher but easily done (50-75 should feel like a proper number)
Ruins is just time consuming (50 feels a good number but it’s just like being at a merry-go-round)
Merc camps should succeed by either capping or destroying the enemy camp (that way 50 would be a fine number)
Dolyaks and Sentries are way too much (100-125 tops or people will just stop working to farm them)
Player/guardian kills are at a fair number (following the zerg the killer can be done in less than an afternoon and by the time you finish the captures the guard kills should be at least at 80-90%)

Regarding supplies and siege:
demolition should be capped at 15 (30 is easy trebbing SM but boring as hell)
supply on repair should be at least halved (like it was mentioned people will waste them otherwise)

World rank:
50 isn’t that hard but 30-40 should be more than enough

I think the achievements were meant to introduce new players to the different aspects of the WvW but the grindy aspect is hurting the WvW dedicated population. Most achievement hunters wont care with the fight, unless it benefits them, and that drags their server down and discourages the veterans to play.

There was also a couple of mistakes on the achievements:

There is no defending.
People were shouting let SM flip or some tower/camp/sentry be capped just so we could use it to then farm the achieves (much like the teq problem for the secret achievement – fail for profit isn’t that good of an idea).

No supply for siege
Some players didn’t use their supply on siege because there was no achieve for that. So if halving the supply for defense like in my earlier suggestion the other half could go for the attack.

No escort dolyaks
Supply is a vital resource but there’s no incentive for new players to learn that escorting dolyaks and speed buffing them is beneficial.

Extra modifications:
Siege usage is a bit awkward in the sense that you can have a complete noob using the engine with a full master asking to use it to quicken the process. Some priority targets depend on the speed of the assault but people just won’t leave the rams/trebs/etc.

What i would suggest is setting triggers to who would control the device according to this:
1- ownership of the plan
2- mastery of the siege device

Example:
Lvl 0 ram mastery player is using a ram and if a level 3 would try to control he would kick the lvl 0 player. Then if another lvl 3 would try to overtake he would be denied but if a lvl 4 did the same he would control the ram.
The only way for the lvl 0 to stay on the ram was if the ram was build with his plans but since commanders set most of the siege that shouldn’t be a major problem.

That’s all of my input on the matter, probably lacking since i’m not a WvW veteran but that’s what I noticed the most since the start of the season.

These PvE players have really gotten on my nerves. Especially with siege.

Rushing a keep, 3 sup rams down…. no ram master on them. Commander asks those guys to drop em, gets ignored. Has to manually kick em off 1 by 1.

Or when im on a ram, with mastery, and getting whispered often by these selfish pricks. Tellin me (not asking) to give them the ram for their achievement. I just whisper back asking if they got ram mastery, usually they dont reply and if they do its “whats master?”. Yeah, exactly.

Or when there is a doly a bit ahead. Just watch those Warriors sprint ahead and 100b the everliving manure out of it. When all they have to do is tickle it, once, so everyone else gets credit aswell. But noooo.

Yesterday i even caught one guy waiting at a wall that was being trebbed. He even replied in mapchat “everything is fine guys”, whenever Garrison became contested. Turns out he just wanted to run from supply depot, repair wall, back to supply for his achievement, draining Garrisons supply.
And he didnt want other people to know or they might want to cut in on his action, or worst actually deal with the situation!

And there are no achievements for defending, or upgrading, or helping allies back on their feet. But doing a jumping puzzle is!

These achievements are BS.

All achievements need to be re-adjusted to eleminate pve elements. Or completely removed.

No escort dolyaks
Supply is a vital resource but there’s no incentive for new players to learn that escorting dolyaks and speed buffing them is beneficial.

Introducing dolly escort achievement beside current ‘kill dolyaks’ could not only help the server secure supply routes + faster upgrades, but also could result in many interesting encounters(gasp! pvp in w3!)

getting flamed for ganking an opposing ruins capper is the most embarassing thing i have encountered