Guild Wars 2

Hear me out on this. Everyone is complaining about the way the linking has failed to address the problems of the WvW game so far. Whether it be server population balance or the other issues that linking has brought to the game.

Currently we clearly have 4 T1 servers. We clearly have 4 T3 servers. It seems pretty clear YB are desperate to PPT their way back to T2 at least, which suggests that we might even have 4 T2 servers rather than T3 servers.

But we also have a lot of little servers that are feeling really hard done by, because they’ve been thrown into a link with a higher tier server and forced to play a style of the game they absolutely hate. For example, a lot of the servers with lower populations prefer the smaller ( < 15) zergs and havoc play style, as opposed to the blob that is basically every server from T3 and up.

The game clearly cannot sustain 8 tiers again. That is absolutely the case, but I think it would be absolutely viable to add a 5th tier back to the game to allow small servers to have a competition they enjoy, without the fear of a big T3 server dropping down and squashing them constantly. And it would open more space up in T3 and above. At the moment, it really feels like T3 and up is bursting at the seams and there isn’t really a viable way for those bigger servers to move between the upper tiers. Which is causing some pretty major imbalances in the lower tiers, despite the linking.

What do people think?

Why you say there are 4 T3 servers when T4 is balanced and YB is stomping T3? I wouldn’t be surprised if SoS and SBI links are also competitive to the T4 servers since CD was competitive with them last week and is now competitive with T4.

The only odd server in there is YB, which is too strong for all the 5 servers below it. FA problably is a better fit for T3 (they been losing every T2 match by a large margin for a while), but we’ll only be able to be sure if YB ever make it to T2 (there is a currently a 180 rating difference between YB and FA)

Sort of hard to figure out where YB really is. Without a link for 8 weeks, we really struggled. Then the last week without links, I saw some names I hadn’t seen in some time. Was it summer coming to an end, people coming back from break knowing we would finally get a needed link, return of school, return of DK (not the 12-16 hour a day version, but a version)?

Now I see all sorts of new names with the FC link. Weekend queues NA prime are something I haven’t seen since t2->t1 push ages ago. How many are fairweathers, FC, or just new to YB who knows. time will tell I guess.

Not sure how many want T2 since T4 and T3 have been more active than T2….I think the T2 push talk is people who think they know everything and aren’t even on the server…..

Either way, the t3/t4 links are way better this go around…

While I’m not sure that the OP is correct about 4 servers being in T1, 3 or maybe 2, one thing is clear to me. FC, which is now linked to YB, could end up in T2, after spending the last two years prior to linking bouncing between T7 and 8. But then, maybe we won’t, because we might get unlinked from YB before that happens. As someone who has been on a low pop server for a long time, the worst part is knowing there is no permanence, or what to expect going forward. Will we, next time, be linked to a T1? Back in T4? Still with YB? Yeah, Anet may have avoided the specter of outright server merges, but they’ve done so at the price of leaving the secondary servers in limbo, pairing after pairing.

Looking at current results YB is definitely a T2 server (although how much of that is k training in dead timezones like YB used to do), probably replacing FA.

And this is exactly why the concept of tiers for matchmaking should be removed because kitten if anyone can balance it. Someone will always be too weak or too strong for where people think they are “supposed” to be, it doesnt matter if you have 2 tiers or 20 tiers.

morrolan.9608:

Looking at current results YB is definitely a T2 server (although how much of that is k training in dead timezones like YB used to do), probably replacing FA.

oddly enough, if there is a ktrain its na prime. The way past my bedtime has tons of sbi and sos (or links) in bigger groups than us. Then again its the holiday weekend – who knows what happens during the week….

morrolan.9608:

(although how much of that is k training in dead timezones like YB used to do)

Considering that DK’s been back….

I’d prefer them to merge the NA servers into three tiers and give them a full glicko reset at the same time.

And to actually try to spread the off hours people around these nine servers.

As to YB, it would be an interesting fight to see if FA or YB is stronger atm. Despite the rumors DK is not really back, hasn’t even tagged up this week so far. So SoS and SBI gain some ground during OCX and SEA time zones.

Caliburn.1845:

Despite the rumors DK is not really back, hasn’t even tagged up this week so far.

Correct. He barely logs on for an hour or two and goes off. From what I heard, unless he gets a new ISP the current one can’t handle WvW. Besides, lots of old YB players are coming back is helping the cause as well.

morrolan.9608:

(although how much of that is k training in dead timezones like YB used to do),

This is rich coming from a member of [SoX] of JQ OCX.

morrolan.9608:

Looking at current results YB is definitely a T2 server (although how much of that is k training in dead timezones like YB used to do), probably replacing kitten

reed. There’s entirely too many YB and hopefully they move up to T2 to blob up with Mag to have a lag fiesta.

FA should drop to T3 as they don’t have the numbers to keep up as well. It’s boring as a roamer to go after a camp and have 20 mag show up. Matchup is meh.

I don’t know, NA linkings are pretty good this time. Although I wouldn’t be completely opposed to trying a fifth tier, I don’t think there’s the population for it.

I would say we have five T3 servers. If current T4 is very even and CD was very even with SBI and SoS (they beat SoS in fact) then it stands to reason all five are pretty balanced. (Timezone wise its hard to say though).

Its hard to say YB and FA should switch. Despite the score, the actual match and fighting in T3 is fun. Its more balanced than the score would indicate. And FA is not that far behind in T2 so they may be too strong for T3. And doesn’t FA tend to run more organized guild type play with boonshare and all that crap? We don’t need that in T3.

Problem with YB (yes im on YB) is that we got a horrible pairing when it all started and no linking afterwards. Too big for some tiers and too small on out own considering the pairings at the time we fell down to tier 4 only to get back in tier 3 get double teamed and back to tier 4…. This was, is anets fault and anytime you send a giant boulder down the mine shaft it bowls over everything in its path insuring no one has fun. Where we land i don’t know but hopefully this semi equilibrium works itself out to where no one is being squashed and having fun as well. Bottom line either anet has to iron out the pairing system or remove a few servers and try to balance out the populations per tiers.

there have been transfers
guilds moving server
guilds buying/poaching players

it is not easy to balance but what anet can really do is look into the details instead of simply graph and chart made from their database

SkyShroud.2865:

there have been transfers
guilds moving server
guilds buying/poaching players

it is not easy to balance but what anet can really do is look into the details instead of simply graph and chart made from their database

False.
Its extremely easy to balance if you are willing to commit to balancing. Anet does not want to commit.

YB is odd this week. We have traditionally done poorly at reset and have struggled across the weekend and only a few weeks ago when we were in T3 we barely managed to edge CD for 2nd. Suddenly this match we come out of reset with a lead and continue to build all through the weekend to the point where we have a 60k lead.

DK is back but he’s really only doing some small-scale stuff and a bit of cheer-leading because of his ISP problems. We have Ferguson’s Crossing with us and there seem to be quite a few more of them than there were of Anvil Rock but it’s not clear exactly how many more. Meanwhile I see a ton of Guild tags and names that I never saw before but who turn out to be YB not FC when inspected.

I really have no idea what’s going on but the fights have been great, there’s a vibrancy and a flow that’s been lacking for a while, and as i type YB is ticking 46 and just had a huge battle to keep our Garri, which is the last keep we hold on our own BL, so it’s hardly all one-way traffic.

Having traveled up and down the rankings with YB for the entire life of the game I can say categorically that I never want to go back to T1, which was dull when we were winning and dismal when we weren’t. I don’t relish T2 either although fighting Maguuma is always…interesting. Personally I’d prefer to stay in T3, in the expectation that the new scoring system, when it finally arrives, will make things look as “balanced” as they currently feel.

Cerby.1069:

SkyShroud.2865:

there have been transfers
guilds moving server
guilds buying/poaching players

it is not easy to balance but what anet can really do is look into the details instead of simply graph and chart made from their database

False.
Its extremely easy to balance if you are willing to commit to balancing. Anet does not want to commit.

easy, really? when u have large amount of players stacking on specific servers on specific timezones while leaving specific servers empty on specific timezones, at the same time NA prime always have people

how are u gonna balance that for every servers without queuing NA prime? u can’t balance that, u have to delete all the servers to forcefully resettle the population.

IndigoSundown.5419:

As someone who has been on a low pop server for a long time, the worst part is knowing there is no permanence, or what to expect going forward. Will we, next time, be linked to a T1? Back in T4? Still with YB? Yeah, Anet may have avoided the specter of outright server merges, but they’ve done so at the price of leaving the secondary servers in limbo, pairing after pairing.

I agree…even if it ends up being in a mismatched tier, I just want a place to call “home” for the duration of my stay in GW2…tired of being a vagabond going from one host to another and not getting to make friends for more than 2 months at a time. I’m used to being in one game on one server for years before moving on, EQ for about 5 years, WoW for 7 years, Rift for 3 years, and developing friendships along the way. Hard to do when the majority of your WvW team will only be with you for 2 months and then you’re paired with some other host. Mega-PvE servers also make it hard to get to know people, because it seems all the faces are new each time and it’s hard to tell who is actually on your own server.

Johje Holan.4607:

I don’t know, NA linkings are pretty good this time. Although I wouldn’t be completely opposed to trying a fifth tier, I don’t think there’s the population for it.

I would say we have five T3 servers. If current T4 is very even and CD was very even with SBI and SoS (they beat SoS in fact) then it stands to reason all five are pretty balanced. (Timezone wise its hard to say though).

Its hard to say YB and FA should switch. Despite the score, the actual match and fighting in T3 is fun. Its more balanced than the score would indicate. And FA is not that far behind in T2 so they may be too strong for T3. And doesn’t FA tend to run more organized guild type play with boonshare and all that crap? We don’t need that in T3.

I think you’ll be surprised at FA when they drop to T3. It’s pretty empty most of the time IMO. I am seeing orange swords quite often from Mag and JQ through roaming maps with zero FA tags present and a dead wvw mapchat. Maybe in the evening FA has a few select ones but very empty. The accusation is that “Mag doesn’t want FA in T2”. I don’t know the validity of that but FA is starting the cliche excuse game.

I do enjoy T3 more on my SBI account, but YB belongs in T2 and FA needs to drop. As long as YB keeps blowing out T3, it’ll most likely happen.

too soon to tell with t3 IMHO. 1 holiday weekend could have been abnormal, but then again 3 or 4 queues NA Prime haven’t been seen in ages on YB…

RodOfDeath.5247:

I do enjoy T3 more on my SBI account, but YB belongs in T2 and FA needs to drop. As long as YB keeps blowing out T3, it’ll most likely happen.

We have the dying dragon in the midst of all that… If DB drops to T2, FA will likely leech their glicko and remain in there. Unless DB in it’s current dying state is stronger than FA.

RodOfDeath.5247:

I think you’ll be surprised at FA when they drop to T3. It’s pretty empty most of the time IMO. I am seeing orange swords quite often from Mag and JQ through roaming maps with zero FA tags present and a dead wvw mapchat. Maybe in the evening FA has a few select ones but very empty. The accusation is that “Mag doesn’t want FA in T2”. I don’t know the validity of that but FA is starting the cliche excuse game.

I do enjoy T3 more on my SBI account, but YB belongs in T2 and FA needs to drop. As long as YB keeps blowing out T3, it’ll most likely happen.

Eh, on the way down the fairweathers on YB found greener PvE pastures or the dreaded real life/other games. Once in t4 they came out in full force; now that HoD and Nsp are delinked from SoS/SBI the fairweathers are still pretty active in t3 (mostly populating EB and doing poorly in fights).

I think FA would be fine if they did go down, as they have a pretty stable population of groups. Healthy amounts of more casual players are actually important to the game mode because some of them become more “serious” players who help form the structure of the server. Another benefit of occasionally dropping rank is offloading toxic and bandwagon players/groups.

The major problem with tiers in NA is that there really aren’t off hour players for more than about 2 tiers with average activity levels atm. 3 tiers if people were very active. The mis matched timezone activity leads to lots of complaining and sometimes boring 1v1’s when the mode and scoring is designed for 1v1v1.

sdkyle.3691:

RodOfDeath.5247:

I think you’ll be surprised at FA when they drop to T3. It’s pretty empty most of the time IMO. I am seeing orange swords quite often from Mag and JQ through roaming maps with zero FA tags present and a dead wvw mapchat. Maybe in the evening FA has a few select ones but very empty. The accusation is that “Mag doesn’t want FA in T2”. I don’t know the validity of that but FA is starting the cliche excuse game.

I do enjoy T3 more on my SBI account, but YB belongs in T2 and FA needs to drop. As long as YB keeps blowing out T3, it’ll most likely happen.

Eh, on the way down the fairweathers on YB found greener PvE pastures or the dreaded real life/other games. Once in t4 they came out in full force; now that HoD and Nsp are delinked from SoS/SBI the fairweathers are still pretty active in t3 (mostly populating EB and doing poorly in fights).

I think FA would be fine if they did go down, as they have a pretty stable population of groups. Healthy amounts of more casual players are actually important to the game mode because some of them become more “serious” players who help form the structure of the server. Another benefit of occasionally dropping rank is offloading toxic and bandwagon players/groups.

The major problem with tiers in NA is that there really aren’t off hour players for more than about 2 tiers with average activity levels atm. 3 tiers if people were very active. The mis matched timezone activity leads to lots of complaining and sometimes boring 1v1’s when the mode and scoring is designed for 1v1v1.

Honestly, I think FAs toxic attitude is going to be their downfall. I sometimes think I’m in Mags wvw map chat lol

It’s definitely sad to see the behavior of people and how angry they are towards the most minute details or ripping on players.