Guild Wars 2

Alright, so as some of you will have heard, the main WvW guilds have just recently left Whiteside Ridge. The result of this is us losing against Fissure Of Woe, a server that we have always been able to beat. Luckily we’re not quite Vabbi-tier yet but it’s still rather embarassing being this low down.

To our chagrin, Anet keep patching WvW with more masteries. If anyone hasn’t already noticed, higher tier servers tend to have higher ranked WvW players. This means that higher tier servers have more opportunity to obtain these new masteries.

Currently it is extremely difficult for a lower tier server to actually do anything in WvW. Adding more masteries makes this problem tenfold worse. Anet are doing the opposite that they should be doing, and this is evidenced by the mass-exodus of the lower tier servers.

If Anet don’t provide a solution to this growing problem, you will find that many of the lower tier servers will slowly empty out, potentially due to people simply quitting rather than switching servers due to getting tired of failing so badly.

I hate to rant without also offering a solution, and asking if anyone else has any other solutions also. My proposed solution would be a power buff to the Outnumbered boon depending on exactly how outmatched that server is. Obviously this would need some testing to balance it out, but if it scaled depending on player numbers then it would even the battlefield for the lower servers.

You might suggest that this would make lower tier servers more desirable to be in then, due to the potential for extra power equals more kills equals more loot, but it would be a good thing if lower tier servers were more desirable as it would even out the playerbase as a whole.

So, there’s my solution. If you think you can come up with something better, please do chip in!

falolout.2376:

To our chagrin, Anet keep patching WvW with more masteries. If anyone hasn’t already noticed, higher tier servers tend to have higher ranked WvW players. This means that higher tier servers have more opportunity to obtain these new masteries.

Let me stop you right there since your entire premise is false.

every single player in the game has the same opportunity to obtain wxp, and therefor new world abilities(ie: masteries).

there’s no correlation between a server’s rank and a player’s rank

To be honest I can see where he is coming from. This being in a T1 server, its quite easy to gain ranks fighting and killing so much, especially if your on a talented side. I can only guess that lower tier servers do not have as many battles, less people, and thus making it harder to take objectives and kill others for WxP.

I don’t see them having such an impact that you all decided to quit. I think they were just looking for an excuse.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

falolout.2376:

To our chagrin, Anet keep patching WvW with more masteries. If anyone hasn’t already noticed, higher tier servers tend to have higher ranked WvW players. This means that higher tier servers have more opportunity to obtain these new masteries.

Let me stop you right there since your entire premise is false.

every single player in the game has the same opportunity to obtain wxp, and therefor new world abilities(ie: masteries).

there’s no correlation between a server’s rank and a player’s rank

Actually, if your class can aoe well, you gain wxp rank much more quickly in tier 1-2. The bigger the zerg, the more people you can tag, the more wxp you get.

the bigger the zerg, the more likely it is you don’t get to tag something before it dies and the more likely it is that the opposing zerg kills you before you get any wxp at all.

this is just one of many silly preconceptions players have about the differences between tiers.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

the bigger the zerg, the more likely it is you don’t get to tag something before it dies and the more likely it is that the opposing zerg kills you before you get any wxp at all.

this is just one of many silly preconceptions players have about the differences between tiers.

I disagree, even with things dying faster you still have more opportunities to tag. All zergs are bigger the higher you go, you have more people doing everything to kill and keep others alive. Death chance is about the same unless you’re doing something you shouldn’t be doing.

While my post appears to stress that the masteries are the problem, the reality is that they are only serving to make the problem worse. WvW has been screwed for a long time, all you have to do is spend a week in a T9 server to see that.

Look at Fissure of Woe’s matchups for the past 41 weeks, for example: http://mos.millenium.org/servers/history/2

For FORTY ONE WEEKS they have been at the same position, matched with Vabbi for every single one of them. The current system does not allow for servers to move around ranks. It’s evident that they are at least playing with the match-up algorithm recently, because up until the 31st of May, those two servers had only been against rank 25, resulting in stupid things happening like 3 servers being repetitively matched against each other for 4-5 weeks in a row. Do you not think they’d be sick of that eventually? All the algorithm switch-up has done is meant that the t9 servers get trashed by a different, even better server each week.

I believe if a scoreboard stays the same for too long it becomes “stale”. Things get repetitive, there’s no feeling of progression, and people get bored. Ultimately people will quit playing completely over it.

Instead of increasing the “skill gap” between servers by rewarding higher tier (and thus higher levelled) servers with more masteries, they should be evening the playing field by buffing the lower tier servers so they have more opportunity to advance.

Aberrant.6749:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

the bigger the zerg, the more likely it is you don’t get to tag something before it dies and the more likely it is that the opposing zerg kills you before you get any wxp at all.

this is just one of many silly preconceptions players have about the differences between tiers.

I disagree, even with things dying faster you still have more opportunities to tag. All zergs are bigger the higher you go, you have more people doing everything to kill and keep others alive. Death chance is about the same unless you’re doing something you shouldn’t be doing.

Tagging enemies isn’t worth anything unless that player actually dies. If your server simply doesn’t have enough people to kill anyone on the opposing side, you don’t get any WXP whatsoever.

falolout.2376:

Aberrant.6749:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

the bigger the zerg, the more likely it is you don’t get to tag something before it dies and the more likely it is that the opposing zerg kills you before you get any wxp at all.

this is just one of many silly preconceptions players have about the differences between tiers.

I disagree, even with things dying faster you still have more opportunities to tag. All zergs are bigger the higher you go, you have more people doing everything to kill and keep others alive. Death chance is about the same unless you’re doing something you shouldn’t be doing.

Tagging enemies isn’t worth anything unless that player actually dies. If your server simply doesn’t have enough people to kill anyone on the opposing side, you don’t get any WXP whatsoever.

You’re missing the point I was trying to make though… sorry if it wasn’t clear. Everything is bigger in higher tiers. Same thing will happen in lower servers as far a the overall percentage of times one side will have more than another etc. (roughly, varies server to server bla bla bla). However, those times when it does go your way in a higher tier, you get higher rewards… thus more chances for higher overall wxp gain.

“fixing” WvW isn’t too terribly difficult. they just have to completely stop the direction they’re heading in, and turn around.

*remove WXP entirely, compensate players by giving them something like 50 badges (or even 50 silver) per rank earned.

*add useful functions to the commander system. what’s laid out here it the perfect start to that: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Suggestion-Diversity-with-Commander-Tags/first#post2511435

*allow for free transfers to servers of lower rank than the one you’re on. rank, NOT overall server population. RANK.

*allow guilds to retain the influence they had on their original server if they transfer to a server 5 or more ranks below them.

*adjust zerg-heavy features, including removing rallying, nerfing combo fields, and raising the player AoE limit.

*remove gold costs for upgrading camps/tower/keeps, so that people won’t be actively discouraged from doing it anymore.

*slow down the zerg. make it so everyone with in, say, 900 range of each other gives everyone in that range a cumulative 1% movement speed decrease. 5 people within range, they all get a 5% movement speed decrease, 30 people in the range, 30%, and yes 100 people in the range= 100% speed decrease.

*add a new map, specific to GvG combat. make it an arena, with multiple “battledomes”. make the standard style of play total-deathmatch. you can even add in other styles, such as king of the hill, or a “kill the commander” type of thing.

and that would result in WvW being in a much better place than it started, and lightyears ahead of where it is currently. these suggestions have all been made countless time by countless people on the forums. each time, WvW players have been ignored, and Anet’s gone in the exact opposite direction as some sort of act of defiance. it’s not hard to understand why WvW players wouldn’t be happy about what’s resulted.

Phantom.8130:

*slow down the zerg. make it so everyone with in, say, 900 range of each other gives everyone in that range a cumulative 1% movement speed decrease. 5 people within range, they all get a 5% movement speed decrease, 30 people in the range, 30%, and yes 100 people in the range= 100% speed decrease.

This idea is simply horrible and opens the gate up to some nasty griefing and endless arguments.

also, not that having 100 friendly players in range is actually possible, but you understand that 100% speed decrease means zero movement, right?

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Phantom.8130:

*slow down the zerg. make it so everyone with in, say, 900 range of each other gives everyone in that range a cumulative 1% movement speed decrease. 5 people within range, they all get a 5% movement speed decrease, 30 people in the range, 30%, and yes 100 people in the range= 100% speed decrease.

This idea is simply horrible and opens the gate up to some nasty griefing and endless arguments.

also, not that having 100 friendly players in range is actually possible, but you understand that 100% speed decrease means zero movement, right?

yes. yes i do understand that. and what it does is it encourages people to split up into 20-30 man groups instead of forming everyone on the map up into a single giant zergball.

as for griefing, 1 or 2 people won’t make much of a difference to a 30 man group. if a sizable group decided to tag along with them for the sole purpose of griefing them, /report.

I have gained most(60-70%) of my ranks (+430) from roaming/solo stuff. When zerging you are required to defend or siege a keep and that take time. Meaning zerging is not always as rewarding as roaming. Roaming it just a constant wxp. Kill vet, take camp, flip quaggan node, and kill enemy roamers.

The question is does A-net expect anyone to get a diamond rank wvw lvl? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WXP Diamond invader rank 6445. So if A-net expect some players to reach the higher wvw rank their should be skills for them.

Phantom.8130:

*add a new map, specific to GvG combat. make it an arena, with multiple “battledomes”. make the standard style of play total-deathmatch. you can even add in other styles, such as king of the hill, or a “kill the commander” type of thing.

This is the only solidly good idea in your list. While I didn’t play GW1, apparently GvG is one of the features that is sorely missing from GW2.

Its also good to remember that the biggest source of wxp is flipping things, which is extremely fast and easy as a large zerg, so yes a large zerg tier will get wxp much faster by flipping the whole map in one burst while a lower tier will then ninja it back but that takes time and over time you get different players logging on so its gets spread vs the horde getting it all very fast.

Ulion.5476:

I have gained most(60-70%) of my ranks (+430) from roaming/solo stuff. When zerging you are required to defend or siege a keep and that take time. Meaning zerging is not always as rewarding as roaming. Roaming it just a constant wxp. Kill vet, take camp, flip quaggan node, and kill enemy roamers.

The question is does A-net expect anyone to get a diamond rank wvw lvl? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WXP Diamond invader rank 6445. So if A-net expect some players to reach the higher wvw rank their should be skills for them.

The current meta is more slanted towards letting it flip then flipping it back unless it’s upgraded to a point to where you don’t want to lose it vs. try to defend much of anything.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

falolout.2376:

To our chagrin, Anet keep patching WvW with more masteries. If anyone hasn’t already noticed, higher tier servers tend to have higher ranked WvW players. This means that higher tier servers have more opportunity to obtain these new masteries.

Let me stop you right there since your entire premise is false.

every single player in the game has the same opportunity to obtain wxp, and therefor new world abilities(ie: masteries).

there’s no correlation between a server’s rank and a player’s rank

There actually is.

I’ve jumped many servers, and I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that higher ranked servers (on average) have higher ranked players. Higher ranked servers dont have the casual player base like lower ones do, and therefore play much more giving them a higher rank. Like the OP is mentioning, more access to the higher end abilities.

“the bigger the zerg, the more likely it is you don’t get to tag something before it dies and the more likely it is that the opposing zerg kills you before you get any wxp at all.
this is just one of many silly preconceptions players have about the differences between tiers.”

This is also untrue; in T1-T2, its not uncommon for me to tag 10 targets off a single barrage. As people die, more people get caught in AoE. Couple this with the fact that often the enemies can’t always pay attention to whats coming from the back or they will get flattened in the front.

Take this for example.. as a berserker ranger, I think it took me 7 weeks to gain 120 ranks in WvW sitting in T2, playing on average of 2hrs per day in WvW. I could not duplicate that pace in lower tiers.

Aberrant.6749:

The current meta is more slanted towards letting it flip then flipping it back unless it’s upgraded to a point to where you don’t want to lose it vs. try to defend much of anything.

True but when your guild pushes on to a map you try to hold your corner and upgrade the keep. Defending your keep is worthwhile even if it is paper. The 2 gate give you enough time to return and defend it if someone is attacking.

The upper towers and garrison tend to be tier 3 but they are worth attempting to turn them into paper. Sieging tier 3 bases takes time or for the other server to have no scouts in the base. The longest I have siege a tier 3 tower was for 1hour until we were able to flip it. I am sure most have seen long 2-3hr fights for garrison.

Ulion.5476:

Aberrant.6749:

The current meta is more slanted towards letting it flip then flipping it back unless it’s upgraded to a point to where you don’t want to lose it vs. try to defend much of anything.

True but when your guild pushes on to a map you try to hold your corner and upgrade the keep. Defending your keep is worthwhile even if it is paper. The 2 gate give you enough time to return and defend it if someone is attacking.

The upper towers and garrison tend to be tier 3 but they are worth attempting to turn them into paper. Sieging tier 3 bases takes time or for the other server to have no scouts in the base. The longest I have siege a tier 3 tower was for 1hour until we were able to flip it. I am sure most have seen long 2-3hr fights for garrison.

Depends… which is why I said slanted… there are times where defending something that’s paper is worth while if it gives your opponents enough of a tatical advantage. That’s far from the norm though.

In general though you’ll let a paper (whatever) just flip for the sake of the overall PPT and reclaim it at a later time… since it’ll still just be paper. Unless it’s upgraded/almost done upgrading and close to something significant… most won’t hop maps or run across the map to stop it.

P.S. You need more Legendaries. Minstrel and Kraitkin are only technically legendaries (although I would love to see Krait be a staff for the necro community).

If nobody minds me interjecting here, I think it is worth mentioning that the two guilds you have mentioned moved to Gunnar’s Hold. T7. Although not quite to the same degree, we face all the same issues your server does.

Also with the suggestion to providing a power buff to the outmanned status, that would destroy roaming completely. Good luck getting anybody to fight you 1 on 1 if you have a power boost that is high enough to compensate for numbers on the map.

As someone who also moved from WSR to GH (sorry about that) I can say GH doesn’t have these problems anywhere near as much as WSR. I’m gaining ranks and earning gold at double the rate I used to.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Phantom.8130:

*slow down the zerg. make it so everyone with in, say, 900 range of each other gives everyone in that range a cumulative 1% movement speed decrease. 5 people within range, they all get a 5% movement speed decrease, 30 people in the range, 30%, and yes 100 people in the range= 100% speed decrease.

This idea is simply horrible and opens the gate up to some nasty griefing and endless arguments.

also, not that having 100 friendly players in range is actually possible, but you understand that 100% speed decrease means zero movement, right?

Actually, its not a terrible idea, it just goes to far.

Bump down the speed decrease to say, 33% max (so it cancels out swiftness), call it something like Trampled Mud.

That’d make zergs slower, while making smaller groups faster, which is how it should be in the first place

Murderous Clown.9723:

As someone who also moved from WSR to GH (sorry about that) I can say GH doesn’t have these problems anywhere near as much as WSR. I’m gaining ranks and earning gold at double the rate I used to.

T_T you.. you left us..

T1 has a heavy player base 24×7. Lower tiers are frequently a ghost town during off peak hours (some are ghosty during peak hours). Simpy put there are more people to kill in higher tiers. Lower tiers usually only have one zerg running on a map and rarely have zergs on all maps… in off hours BP frequently has no zergs. Queuing two maps outside of reset is pretty big deal.

Even when a lower tier wipes an enemy zerg for a bunch of points, that is the only zerg from the other side so it takes a while for those players to be worth any WxP.

The speed a building can get capped goes up with more players as well. Big zergs can beat down a door without siege faster than many small-mid sized groups can with.

Xsorus.2507:

Bump down the speed decrease to say, 33% max (so it cancels out swiftness), call it something like Trampled Mud.

That’d make zergs slower, while making smaller groups faster, which is how it should be in the first place

Great idea, rather than buffing the outnumbered people, debuff the larger numbers. This still wouldn’t do the trick though I don’t think. There needs to be something more. This still wouldn’t make up for the fact that a more populated server can be everywhere at once compared to smaller servers only being able to muster 100 people tops in EB and none in BL’s. Power buff? Less supply requirements for siege when outnumbered?

And will Anet ever actually bloody listen!?

The problem is you have no control over who(and how many) runs next to you.

More importantly, it goes completely against one of Anet’s main design philosophies for the game: always be happy to see teammates running towards you.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

the bigger the zerg, the more likely it is you don’t get to tag something before it dies and the more likely it is that the opposing zerg kills you before you get any wxp at all.

this is just one of many silly preconceptions players have about the differences between tiers.

Yup, I agree with this. I have been on high/mid/low tiers and I have noticed not much of a difference. The high tier you might get more kills, but it seems the wxp for such kills are 10x less then those from lower ranking tiers. wXP wise I probably make about the same on a lower tier as high, but alot less bag drops/gold.