Guild Wars 2

Before the Desert BL was launched we used to complain that we were tired of the same map. We didn’t get a perfect result, so we complain about it. Why are we so obsessed with the idea of reverting the change instead of fixing the map we requested? Also, let’s not forget that there were plenty of problems with the Alpine BL. Why not work on fixing both maps so we can be happy when we finally get a rotation?

IMO it’s better to fix the background system so they can actually rotate maps because that (and potentially more map additions in the future) would be way better in the long term.

No, SOME people complained about the old map. Those people were naive enough to think anet could produce a suitable replacement. They were not.

I would gladly welcome the old map back, without all the stupid new keep and tower upgrades.

“We still intend to eventually bring back the Alpine Borderlands map, but it’s not as simple as just toggling it back on. We don’t have the tech for rotating between the two borderlands built yet, and the map itself required a significant amount of content updates to support all of the features that were added to WvW as part of the HoT update.”

uh oh… they are going to destroy the Alpine maps.
If I could travel back in time and slap myself for giving money to them on a bi weekly basis, I definitely would.

lil devils x.6071:

“We still intend to eventually bring back the Alpine Borderlands map, but it’s not as simple as just toggling it back on. We don’t have the tech for rotating between the two borderlands built yet, and the map itself required a significant amount of content updates to support all of the features that were added to WvW as part of the HoT update.” ~ Mike Obrien

What part of " players do not want you to ruin the Alpine Map with the HoT content" don’t they understand? They wont bring it back because it doesn’t have the Hot content added when the problem they are resolving by bringing it back is players DON’T WANT the HoT updates.. Players do not want the Auto crap that ruined WvW gameplay for so many, but they refuse to add Alpine back without adding the stuff players do not want.. They just do not " get" it. by the time they do ( if that ever happens) everyone will be gone.

So all those upgrades you can make will all be useless? They’re never going to do that.

lil devils x.6071:

Nice try. " Need to know" basis and you don’t need to know .

You got a whole lotta’ nothin’, lol.

FrizzFreston.5290:

lil devils x.6071:

“We still intend to eventually bring back the Alpine Borderlands map, but it’s not as simple as just toggling it back on. We don’t have the tech for rotating between the two borderlands built yet, and the map itself required a significant amount of content updates to support all of the features that were added to WvW as part of the HoT update.” ~ Mike Obrien

What part of " players do not want you to ruin the Alpine Map with the HoT content" don’t they understand? They wont bring it back because it doesn’t have the Hot content added when the problem they are resolving by bringing it back is players DON’T WANT the HoT updates.. Players do not want the Auto crap that ruined WvW gameplay for so many, but they refuse to add Alpine back without adding the stuff players do not want.. They just do not " get" it. by the time they do ( if that ever happens) everyone will be gone.

So all those upgrades you can make will all be useless? They’re never going to do that.

They can change things to still make your work useful but also restoring what was taken from players via HoT. A big part of what they got terribly wrong with HoT was they took more from players/ guilds than what they gave back in return. Prior to HoT, small guilds could run full buffs on keeps and +5 camps, after HoT they were completely screwed, not only was that taken from them, they had no way to earn it back. So essentially those players dropped their hard earned cash ( $500 on HoT and related from my bank alone, so I know some of these players spent quite a bit hoping this would be great ) to have what they enjoyed in the game stripped from them instead of receiving something for them to enjoy in return. Anet Failed to realize that guilds had already earned all of these things they just took from them and wanted to keep them MORE than they wanted to go grind their tails off and spend a fortune to just be able to do what they already earned. This made numerous small guilds leave all together.

One way for them to help resolve this issue, for example, would be to restore Guild upgrades they had prior to Hot, Restore some sort of way to get them via buying " influence scrolls" as you could prior to HoT ( does not need to be same currency as that is really irrelevant and easily altered) All the buffs guilds had prior to HoT will be restored. THEN for HoT, make it so all of those guild who busted their kitten to earn those upgrades back, instead of making the upgrades cost influence to use as they did prior to HoT, those are now FREE to use for the HoT upgrade. This would satisfy both HoT players and non Hot Players. It would still cost HoT players influence to speed them up as it does not Hot Players , but would cost them nothing to let them charge normally.

There are numerous options they have to satisfy both the players who worked their tails off to restore their upgrades and to those who just had theirs taken from them with nothing given in return since they are unable to get them back. They do not have to ruin the maps with HoT mess to satisfy those who worked hard for upgrades.

They just have to be mindful with everything they do that there are players who worked hard for what they have, they do not want it just stripped from them ( as they did with HoT) They need to make sure what they do is something all players involved will find agreeable rather than just " doing whatever" and making players deal with it as they have been. If they change something, they have to make sure that change is something that will work for the great variety of players that enjoy WvW. Sure, My guild is one of the largest WvW guilds in the game and have people designated that just do upgrades ect. But not all guilds have that luxury and this was very wrong to do to those who had already earned what they had in game only to have that now made unattainable for them if they wish to play the game as they enjoy to do so. Some players do not have the time to grind away their lives in PvE to earn those upgrades back, some only have a couple of hours a day to play and they sure as hell do not want to spend it grinding away to return what was stolen from them or running around aimlessly in the DBLs.

They can do this right if they actually put thought into what they are doing here and how it affects these players. Think about what the different types of player sit down to do when they play and why. Ask them what they like and dislike about the game mode and make changes that will positively affect improving the time that players spend in their game rather than making that more frustrating for them. The problem here is they are still trying to continue to push a direction that w as already rejected by WvW players long ago instead of taking the criticism they receive and making the proper adjustments instead.

The best commanders do not start out that way, they are the ones who do not ignore criticism or let it make them feel bad.. No, they listen to the criticism and become aware of these things in the fight and make the proper adjustments to correct the situation. The same can be said for game developers. Anet has not been doing that is the problem. They are not listening to the criticism and making the proper adjustments to correct it instead, they are ignoring the community and trying to force something the players already said they hated on them. All that does is make people leave. People do not just say " Okay I am not having any fun anymore but I will keep doing this anyways". Why do it if it isn’t fun?

Nokaru.7831:

lil devils x.6071:

Nice try. " Need to know" basis and you don’t need to know .

You got a whole lotta’ nothin’, lol.

Here .. I will toss you a bone. The new rewards system is going to be like the new HoT maps participation rewards system. Sounds great eh?

What i understand from that post was mostly:

Things WvW guilds should get faster or never been taken:
guild buffs and guild claiming.

That’s basically all you’re saying.
I think I can agree with that even. But your solutions aren’t realistic

But all the new functionalities in EBG and DBL still would need to be added to Alpine borderlands for consistency and actually for it to be working correctly. Surely there are some things players don’t like for some of those, but there are also things you do need there that do need that new functionality. Like something for guild missions to just name something.

FrizzFreston.5290:

What i understand from that post was mostly:

Things WvW guilds should get faster or never been taken:
guild buffs and guild claiming.

That’s basically all you’re saying.
I think I can agree with that even. But your solutions aren’t realistic

But all the new functionalities in EBG and DBL still would need to be added to Alpine borderlands for consistency and actually for it to be working correctly. Surely there are some things players don’t like for some of those, but there are also things you do need there that do need that new functionality. Like something for guild missions to just name something.

That was just an example of how they can resolve issues making everyone involved happy. They can do that with the numerous issues caused by HoT. Yes, there will be some things they have to do to get the map turned back on, the truth is , however, it doesn’t take that long if they are actually working on it. Them saying " we will work on that later" IS the problem here. They should have been working on this already.. the second they started reading the feedback after HoT beta.. SO they didn’t do that.. can’t change the past but they can change the future starting today. Make this #1 priority and do this first. BEFORE continuing the other things they talked about. The issue is when this many players have left the game and are leaving shortly over it, it should have already been made their number one priority. They could have it ready in a very short period of time if it was their main priority. It isn’t is why it is not being done.

(EDIT: Your summary of what I said was not exactly accurate: The solutions for guild buffs ARE realistic. Give back pre Hot Buffs yes, but then you convert the HoT buffs to something the players will be happy with. For example, they re-earned +5 in HoT already, just replace that with they get to charge +5 for free from now on instead. Good trade. They get their +5 and they get it recharged free now instead. I do not see why that would not be realistic. For the various buffs they took from guilds they are restoring, they replace the HoT with something just as good. Not having to be charged to recharge buffs is something most would consider an acceptable exchange.)

Svarty.8019:

NO. No more “Alpine was amazing” lies! It wasn’t amazing. It was, frankly, boring.

I implore Arenanet devs to ignore these miserable few forum warriors.

^This, we needed these awesome new maps!

Thanks ANET for replacing those BORING old maps! I can’t wait to see what else they have in store for WvW…

To all the QQers, don’t let the door hit chya on the way out! Don’t worry, WvW will survive just fine without you! For every one of you that QQ your way out the door, we’ll recruit 2 new people…

DeWolfe.2174:

That’s a good point to make. That bringing back Alpine is not just about the terrain. It’s a huge part of it but, not the only part of it.

I’m assuming what’s holding up bring Alpine back online is Anet’s desire to rotate the maps more than it’s integrating all of the HoT changes. I really don’t see the difficulty though in adding the HoT changes to Alpine. The seemed to have added the HoT changes to EB cleanly enough. The asset packages are already in place, they just have to be integrated.

From everyone I spoke to that left, if they add HoT changes to Alpine, they still will not come back. Not only do they have to take out the DBL all together, they have to remove HoT mess from all WvW maps including the HoT Banners, Airship, fog, junk popping out of the ground and reducing AC damage on players, making PPK much more valuable and the other things players actually asked or that were ignored to be added instead. Nothing short of that and quickly would make them come back to play… They are already dumping their money into DBO to get set up…Wai uninstalled GW2 already( yea Anet You know that guy who just bought $15,000 gold a few months ago? Good job making him leave too)…This time last year, we were one of the Largest 100% active WvW guilds, now no one even wants to play. Those that are still hanging in there are not having much fun these days. Most commanders have left the game.

Their announcement that they were working on population imbalance and rewards instead of Alpine HoT roll back made a ton of players leave in mass and are setting up shop on DBO now. I have no idea why they would think that was a good thing to say. Seriously.

They need to go back to their roots with GW1.. Use player surveys to make the content, no grind PvP( understand that WvW is a PvP mode), and make sure it is actually WvW players they are surveying and not PvE players just doing dailies..
They need to start the surveys with all the WvW players that just left…

lil devils x.6071:

DeWolfe.2174:

That’s a good point to make. That bringing back Alpine is not just about the terrain. It’s a huge part of it but, not the only part of it.

I’m assuming what’s holding up bring Alpine back online is Anet’s desire to rotate the maps more than it’s integrating all of the HoT changes. I really don’t see the difficulty though in adding the HoT changes to Alpine. The seemed to have added the HoT changes to EB cleanly enough. The asset packages are already in place, they just have to be integrated.

From everyone I spoke to that left, if they add HoT changes to Alpine, they still will not come back. Not only do they have to take out the DBL all together, they have to remove HoT mess from all WvW maps including the HoT Banners, Airship, fog, junk popping out of the ground and reducing AC damage on players, making PPK much more valuable and the other things players actually asked or that were ignored to be added instead. Nothing short of that and quickly would make them come back to play… They are already dumping their money into DBO to get set up…Wai uninstalled GW2 already( yea Anet You know that guy who just bought $15,000 gold a few months ago? Good job making him leave too)…This time last year, we were one of the Largest 100% active WvW guilds, now no one even wants to play. Those that are still hanging in there are not having much fun these days. Most commanders have left the game.

Their announcement that they were working on population imbalance and rewards instead of Alpine HoT roll back made a ton of players leave in mass and are setting up shop on DBO now. I have no idea why they would think that was a good thing to say. Seriously.

They need to go back to their roots with GW1.. Use player surveys to make the content, no grind PvP( understand that WvW is a PvP mode), and make sure it is actually WvW players they are surveying and not PvE players just doing dailies..
They need to start the surveys with all the WvW players that just left…

So why would anet cater on your group instead of gw2 population as a whole?

I heard from couple of friends they’re bringing the old Borderlands back, any confirmation/Date ?

note : Ty so much, Everyone hated the new maps, it’s totally crap for WvWers, not pvers tho

They are parked in forever land until as stated “They can bring them up to HoT standards”. Which is a controversy on Its own.

Anything you hear from friends are rumors and speculation, unless your friends are ArenaNet staff members.

Here’s a speculation:

Alpine borderlands re-released as DLC. $30 per wvw player

If only the new maps were like heart of maguuma rather than an even more terrible version of dry top

TheBravery.9615:

Alpine borderlands re-released as DLC. $30 per wvw player

Haha.

The thing is: i would actually pay that!

Seriously, if even for just a week event. Watch the flood of people as this game mode becomes playable again. Yesterday, I tried to do guild missions on a desert BL, and it is hilarious how long it can take to go from Point A to Point B because of all the STUPID and CONFUSING vertical paths designed. Each BL is literally bigger than EBG in terms of walkable space.

I’m amazed that this idiotic design even made it to production, even more that we’re still forced to “play” EotM part 2 as our BLs. “Play” as in “players completely ignore the BLs, and as a result EBG has been a crowded hot mess for months.”

Edit: And this is a solution that would cost NOTHING. You literally have the asset of Alpine Borderlands parked for no reason other than force feeding Desert BL to us. Did an executive’s spouse design that kitten Desert BL or something? Is that why you won’t even give us the FREE fix of the old BLs back? Because it has been long enough that its safe to say: Players and player adoption is not the problem. kittenty map design and lack of communication is.

/rant

Drizzy.1268:

TheBravery.9615:

Alpine borderlands re-released as DLC. $30 per wvw player

Haha.

The thing is: i would actually pay that!

oh god please don’t give them ideas

No, we won’t! !!

Bump. I know the struggle Koolgai. And Hadi was raging too xD

Maybe these devs can get their heads out of their kittening kittens

Note: I wonder if their language filters will replace my kittens for the actual colorful language i wanted to post

Yeah….this is kinda getting pathetic at this point. T1 has no que lately even in EB at times during prime.

“Yesterday, I tried to do guild missions on a desert BL, and it is hilarious how long it can take to go from Point A to Point B because of all the STUPID and CONFUSING vertical paths designed. "

Signed.

I’ve been through (literally) every tier. Moving up each time the Oceanic scene dies. T2 Oceanic, with the departure of the fight guilds ER (FA), eN (TC) is now just a karma train borefest. Last night I ran around for hours barely seeing more than one or two people.

I agree with bringing back the old BL but i do not think the devs would want to just scrap the desert BL since they did put effort into making it, so the maybe the middle ground is that they could rotate the Desert BLs and the Alpine BLs every week? or month?

Fivedawgs.4267:

lil devils x.6071:

DeWolfe.2174:

That’s a good point to make. That bringing back Alpine is not just about the terrain. It’s a huge part of it but, not the only part of it.

I’m assuming what’s holding up bring Alpine back online is Anet’s desire to rotate the maps more than it’s integrating all of the HoT changes. I really don’t see the difficulty though in adding the HoT changes to Alpine. The seemed to have added the HoT changes to EB cleanly enough. The asset packages are already in place, they just have to be integrated.

From everyone I spoke to that left, if they add HoT changes to Alpine, they still will not come back. Not only do they have to take out the DBL all together, they have to remove HoT mess from all WvW maps including the HoT Banners, Airship, fog, junk popping out of the ground and reducing AC damage on players, making PPK much more valuable and the other things players actually asked or that were ignored to be added instead. Nothing short of that and quickly would make them come back to play… They are already dumping their money into DBO to get set up…Wai uninstalled GW2 already( yea Anet You know that guy who just bought $15,000 gold a few months ago? Good job making him leave too)…This time last year, we were one of the Largest 100% active WvW guilds, now no one even wants to play. Those that are still hanging in there are not having much fun these days. Most commanders have left the game.

Their announcement that they were working on population imbalance and rewards instead of Alpine HoT roll back made a ton of players leave in mass and are setting up shop on DBO now. I have no idea why they would think that was a good thing to say. Seriously.

They need to go back to their roots with GW1.. Use player surveys to make the content, no grind PvP( understand that WvW is a PvP mode), and make sure it is actually WvW players they are surveying and not PvE players just doing dailies..
They need to start the surveys with all the WvW players that just left…

So why would anet cater on your group instead of gw2 population as a whole?

GW2 population as a whole can be broken down into primary subgroups. Although this can be broken down into many additional subgroups there are different types of players in the game that do share things in common. There are players who only enjoy PvE, Players who only enjoy PvP, Players who only enjoy WvW, players who enjoy different combinations of all 3 or 2 of the above. The majority of players enjoy PvE, and that is fine since the vast majority of the game is dedicated to those players. The smaller niches of players enjoy the PvP game modes, whether it is small scale arena style PvP or large scale battlefield WvW PvP. The players who only like to play these different styles often find things they consider unplayable about the other modes in the game. No matter what you do to a PvP game mode it isn’t going to make players who hate being attacked by other players enjoy playing that game mode, for example. If they don’t want players to attack them, they are not going to suddenly want players to attack them just because you added a worm to kill. The small scale PvPer is never going to like being face rolled by a zerg no matter what you do to the game mode. while the WvW player could care less, they get back up and get back in the fight not all that concerned with being roadkill as it happens to the best of us.They are a different type of player and do not play the game for the same reasons. The player who doesn’t mind the different play styles are also not as likely to leave the game if they make changes that bring what the players that only play that game style hate about the other areas of the game, but they are also more likely to farm the gold they use in the game in PvE than buy it in the gem shop. Just as WvW players should be fine with PvE players determining what is being added to PvE, PvE players should be fine with what WvW players want to add to WvW and PvP players want to add to PvP. To those that only play those game modes that is their " home" on game and the only thing they come on to do. If you want the game to really have diverse game styles, and not be the same ol same ol everywhere, you would cater to each subgroup to make those game styles very different rather than trying to make them all the same by catering to the same players.

However, if you don’t mind making the thousands of player who find the game mode unplayable when changed to add the things they do not enjoy, you will lose them as players as well as the money they bring to the game. They will take their business elsewhere. The truth is PvE players have no reason to buy thousands of gold every month injecting fresh funds into the game since they earn everything they need to play in game. The PvP players need nothing to play so they also have no reason to buy a ton of gems.. The WvW players who only play WvW on the other hand do not farm PvE, they do not mind injecting a ton of cash into the game every month as long as they receive nonstop strategic, challenging, fun large scale PvP in return. The WvW players have been spending tons of real cash every month to buy siege, The best weapons, armor, runes, guild upgrades, food, matching outfits so that all the guild looks the same to reduce pin sniping, tons of gems to transfer entire guilds from server to server, and even to pay someone to stop running around having fun and go scout towers… WvW players have been spending more real ca$h than both their PvE and PvP players combined since they have to if they want to only play WvW. This cash being spent helps the developer make the PvE and PvP content they have been adding to the game, and often many don’t mind help paying for the PVE content as well ( though many are irritated with having to pay for every one else’s content) as long as they get some WvW content too. The problem comes in when those WvW players are ignored, their game mode made unplayable to them and then people wonder why they all left and took the cash they were injecting into the game with them.

You are not actually " playing WvW" if you are just coming in to do dailies, the truth is they can put dailies anywhere and it is just another rock to mine to be added to their dailies rotation. What they do to the actual game mode isn’t going to be a deal breaker for those players, as it is for WvW players who are not just there for dailies. No one is telling PvE players they should not listen to PvE players about what they add to PvE, and WvW players request they do the same for WvW. If they want those WvW players to continue to inject cash so they don’t have to, you should allow them to have their tiny little patch of the game world to play in, otherwise, yes they will take their business elsewhere.. even if that means the players who spend the most on the game every month and they wind up having to lay people off long term due to losing that funding.
I do not foresee PvE players jumping up to spend what WvW players do in the Gem shop any time soon..

TheBravery.9615:

Anything you hear from friends are rumors and speculation, unless your friends are ArenaNet staff members.

Here’s a speculation:

Alpine borderlands re-released as DLC. $30 per wvw player

What is scary is that people would rather hear that than what they are actually hearing from employees.

no. no middle ground. no one wanted desert bls. no one cared for new mechanics. no one was after air keep and fire keep. no one was after an oasis event. no one wanted the “lets have each server have t3 waypoints on 3 different maps to promote fighting” when it was actually fighting over keeping one’s bl that was the crux of the alpine bls.

Kitten off anet

Hi i mostly play PvE unless there is a WvW tournament nd then i burn myself playing that mode. I don’t totaly understand core WvW players so you might help me understand someting.

Way before HoT when they started made EotM they wee tons of topics here on the forum complaining about zerg fights and giving solutions to help break the zergs. The two most comon suggestions were to make bigger maps with choke points in order to force server to run many groups rather than a big zerg.
When they relased Dbl i thaught they had listened and done exactly what the people hee wanted but thene everyone started complaining about the map being too big with too many chokepoints. I don’t understand anything anymore and i am not surprised the devs are totaly lost.

So what should they do? Flatter smaller maps that encourage the hated zerg playstyle or biggr convoluted maps that encourage zerg breaking and discourage graverunning?

lil devils x.6071:

WvW players have been spending more real ca$h than both their PvE and PvP players combined since they have to if they want to only play WvW. This cash being spent helps the developer make the PvE and PvP content they have been adding to the game, and often many don’t mind help paying for the PVE content as well ( though many are irritated with having to pay for every one else’s content) as long as they get some WvW content too.

I think you vastely underestimate the cash brought in by PvE players playing fashion wars. I am quite certain PvE players spend more cash on average that WvW players beside being more mumerous. This can also been seen in the type of cash shop items being sold, all fasion stuff or PvE convenience stuff.

terminatorkobold.6031:

Way before HoT when they started made EotM they wee tons of topics here on the forum complaining about zerg fights and giving solutions to help break the zergs. The two most comon suggestions were to make bigger maps with choke points in order to force server to run many groups rather than a big zerg.
When they relased Dbl i thaught they had listened and done exactly what the people hee wanted but thene everyone started complaining about the map being too big with too many chokepoints. I don’t understand anything anymore and i am not surprised the devs are totaly lost.

So what should they do? Flatter smaller maps that encourage the hated zerg playstyle or biggr convoluted maps that encourage zerg breaking and discourage graverunning?

The problem with the new borderlands is that they are too large and too complicated. There has to be a balance and it was not yet found.

terminatorkobold.6031:

lil devils x.6071:

WvW players have been spending more real ca$h than both their PvE and PvP players combined since they have to if they want to only play WvW. This cash being spent helps the developer make the PvE and PvP content they have been adding to the game, and often many don’t mind help paying for the PVE content as well ( though many are irritated with having to pay for every one else’s content) as long as they get some WvW content too.

I think you vastely underestimate the cash brought in by PvE players playing fashion wars. I am quite certain PvE players spend more cash on average that WvW players beside being more mumerous. This can also been seen in the type of cash shop items being sold, all fasion stuff or PvE convenience stuff.

^this. If wvw players outspent pve players, less attention would be given to pve and more attention given to wvw. LilDevvil’s experience in his/her circle of friends may be exactly as stated, but the generalization wvw spends more than pve – not buying it.

please for the love of god get rid of the new BLs or at least hold up your promise of rotating the BL’s. the only ppl that like the new BL are newer guys coming from PvE cause the new BL’s are, lets face it, nice PvE maps….. or guys who enjoy getting there faces shight faced by siege and dumb butt PPTactivators. i can not tell u many ppl from my long list of ppl i know, that enjoy playing the BL unless its solo or duo roaming to kill the scrub players that are clueless to fighting who try hard ppt in the BL’s.

When they’ve put in all the failed mechanics that everyone hates about the new BL: that’s when the old BL returns.

terminatorkobold.6031:

lil devils x.6071:

WvW players have been spending more real ca$h than both their PvE and PvP players combined since they have to if they want to only play WvW. This cash being spent helps the developer make the PvE and PvP content they have been adding to the game, and often many don’t mind help paying for the PVE content as well ( though many are irritated with having to pay for every one else’s content) as long as they get some WvW content too.

I think you vastely underestimate the cash brought in by PvE players playing fashion wars. I am quite certain PvE players spend more cash on average that WvW players beside being more mumerous. This can also been seen in the type of cash shop items being sold, all fasion stuff or PvE convenience stuff.

Not at all, not only do PvE players not need to spend gold daily, they earn what they need to play the game in PvE.
1) PvE players have no reason to transfer servers, only WvW players do, and do so frequently. They pay for entire guilds to hop servers all the time + bonuses for doing so. Often a stack of Legendaries are thrown in to sweeten the deal. Do you have any idea how much is costs to transfer large guilds repeatedly?

2)WvW does not need “fashion wars” because some GvG guilds often require every member in them to purchase outfits so they can switch to all look the same to confuse the enemy team to prevent pin sniping and the targeting of specific players. There is an actual strategic reason to have the outfits for WvW, not just " Fashion wars".

3)You have to have the best armor, weapons, sigils and runes in the game to be competitive in WvW as well as the best food and utilities for your raids otherwise you get beat by teams that do. WvW is not like PvP where you get everything you need to play free and PvE players often use cheaper food, utilities, armor and weapons than WvW players in addition to usually getting their gear by grinding PvE instead of just buying it with gold as WvW players do. WvW players often buy group food for their server and guild in addition to their personals.

4) PvE players do not need Omegas, Superior catapults, guild catapults, superior flame rams, superior arrow carts, superior trebuchets to even be able to run. We go through hundreds of those a WvW raid. Since WvW only players do not grind PvE for their gear, they buy gold from the cash shop to pay for these things. You are talking about hundreds of these items a raid, if you run multiple raids a day you have to get even more.. Do you have any idea how much that actually costs WvW p,layers? This was the same no matter what tier or server I am on, this is the standard for WvW regardless of server. The only players that do not buy these things in WvW are the ones mooching off the ones who do. Many guilds do not tolerate mooches, everyone is expected to help. The only difference on the different tiers and servers in this regard is who buys the siege. On good servers, you have the whole server pitching in and sending guilds/ commanders siege to be able to do what they need to get done. The Money is spent for the server regardless of who it is that supplies it. PvE players just do not have anything that comparable that they have to have spend $ on to be able to play.

5) The majority of WvW players are on the more populated servers, which also means they are on the more competitive servers, who ALSO happen to be the servers that spend the most in the gem store on gold because they spend more of their time in WvW than others in order to remain competitive. That means you have more players spending more money needing to buy more items to play and having less time to get them. That is a recipe to make them spend a lot more Real $ on the game than the general population. They have all cosmetic items as well as needing to buy much much more weekly/ monthly just to be able to play the game mode they enjoy. Huge difference in the amount spent. Your " average " WvW" player is on the more populated servers ( because being more populated = more actual players on that server) the top tiers have more players than the rest of the tiers put together since you could have queues during all time zones prior to the Epac ( At least they did have more population b4 HoT, now most have left or are leaving .)

Liston.9708:

terminatorkobold.6031:

lil devils x.6071:

WvW players have been spending more real ca$h than both their PvE and PvP players combined since they have to if they want to only play WvW. This cash being spent helps the developer make the PvE and PvP content they have been adding to the game, and often many don’t mind help paying for the PVE content as well ( though many are irritated with having to pay for every one else’s content) as long as they get some WvW content too.

I think you vastely underestimate the cash brought in by PvE players playing fashion wars. I am quite certain PvE players spend more cash on average that WvW players beside being more mumerous. This can also been seen in the type of cash shop items being sold, all fasion stuff or PvE convenience stuff.

^this. If wvw players outspent pve players, less attention would be given to pve and more attention given to wvw. LilDevvil’s experience in his/her circle of friends may be exactly as stated, but the generalization wvw spends more than pve – not buying it.

Not at all, I have played all tiers/ many servers. This is not just one server or group of friends. This is the standard for WvW. There simply is no reason for PvE players to spend as much as WvW players do. WvW players need to buy the outfits in addition to spending much much more.. Due to the nature of PvE gameplay, PvErs earn most of what they need to play in the game itself instead. That is not possible for WvW players ( and form to be playing WvW only) since you have to spend $ just to play the game mode at all. ( See the above post to add up the expenses). The only ones who don’t spend $ in WvW are mooching off those who do or are forced to grind PvE which means they are spending less time playing WvW than those who buy gold to do so. Most WvW players are not mooches, nor should they be representative of what WvW players want. If they are being forced to grind PvE to play WvW, that is not because they want to…

The low populated servers are not representative of the majority since to be low populated, that means you have LESS people. On the more populated servers you do not go around throwing regular siege and expect to accomplish your goals.. you throw 5-6 superior rams at once and hope you get the door down in time instead. ETA of Zerg arriving is 3-5 seconds on populated servers so EVERYTHING has to be done fast.

Continue to write your mini novels, doesn’t make it true. You also talked about a bl boycott in a thread which is not true at all… How do I know this? I am in T1 myself.

The people that I know that spend the real money are heavily into PVE. I will speak for myself and not 1000s…. if wvw players outspent pve players in total $$ (not per person) AND Anet really didn’t understand their customer base like you claim – then there is no hope anyway….

You guys are DEAD wrong about WvW making ANet more money than PvE. It’s quite OBVIOUS that PvE makes them more money, since it gets all of their attention. If WvW made them the bulk of their money, then they would clearly work more on that!

I don’t care if you had a FULL guild and you all spent $1,000 per month. Trust me, you’re STILL outspent by all the PvE spenders! Otherwise, again, WvW would get more attention than it does.

So, please, stop ASSUMING WvW makes them more money. It is simply not true. Trust me, what was the last main number of overall accounts, seven million? I want to say. If I had to guess, I’d even venture to say only 25% of all accounts (~2 mil) WvW at all, and maybe only 15% (~1 mil) “LIVE” in WvW. Now there’s some assumptions for ya :P

Another thing, if all you people are leaving WVW, guess what – that means EVEN LESS people doing it, therefore making PVE REALLY out spend WVW. So, to be technical (on the business side of things), NOW wouldn’t be the time to be leaving if you want shet fixed. Now would be the time to be spending more than you ever have before. Though all the WVW people would have their work cut out for them since a BULK of ANets playerbase is PVE (or even PVP) but just not WVW…

But anyway, if EVERYONE did WvW, there would be queues on EVERY server at EVERY tier. What’s the cap now, only a few hundred people. Yea, trust me, PVE players WAY outnumber the WVW players (and therefore outnumber the WVW ‘spenders’).

Maybe one day you can realize and accept that…

Still besides the point tho, lets not forget the real problem here. 90% of dedicated WvW players want the Alpine BL’s back.

sparc.3649:

You guys are DEAD wrong about WvW making ANet more money than PvE. It’s quite OBVIOUS that PvE makes them more money, since it gets all of their attention. If WvW made them the bulk of their money, then they would clearly work more on that!

I don’t care if you had a FULL guild and you all spent $1,000 per month. Trust me, you’re STILL outspent by all the PvE spenders! Otherwise, again, WvW would get more attention than it does.

So, please, stop ASSUMING WvW makes them more money. It is simply not true. Trust me, what was the last main number of overall accounts, seven million? I want to say. If I had to guess, I’d even venture to say only 25% of all accounts (~2 mil) WvW at all, and maybe only 15% (~1 mil) “LIVE” in WvW. Now there’s some assumptions for ya :P

Another thing, if all you people are leaving WVW, guess what – that means EVEN LESS people doing it, therefore making PVE REALLY out spend WVW. So, to be technical (on the business side of things), NOW wouldn’t be the time to be leaving if you want shet fixed. Now would be the time to be spending more than you ever have before. Though all the WVW people would have their work cut out for them since a BULK of ANets playerbase is PVE (or even PVP) but just not WVW…

But anyway, if EVERYONE did WvW, there would be queues on EVERY server at EVERY tier. What’s the cap now, only a few hundred people. Yea, trust me, PVE players WAY outnumber the WVW players (and therefore outnumber the WVW ‘spenders’).

Maybe one day you can realize and accept that…

I am sure their financial 2016 reports will be telling eh? Of course PvE players have need of multiple accounts, and server transfers as WvW players do.. ( Oh wait, they don’t.) Some of my friends bought 4 copies of HoT to play on multiple servers already and would buy more if they actually fixed WvW but they are leaving now instead and are not even going to play anymore. I don’t think you have a clue what WvW vs PvE players spend. The numbers will speak for themselves. Players bought the HoT to bump Q4 last year, however, they will have to see what it does after this month when everyone gave up waiting. You do realize we can check these things when Nsoft puts out their quarterly reports. LOL

The reason I do not accept that is due to it being incorrect. Due to the nature of PvE, they simply do not need to the spend cash to get what they need from the gem store, as they can convert their in game gold they earned by just playing PvE to gems to get what they need. WvW players do not get enough in game gold to do that and have MANY more expenses just to play the game mode.

Just want to say that, because PvErs don’t need to spend as much money to supposedly enjoy the game, doesn’t automatically mean that they spend less money.

Plus there’s always been more PvErs.

Plus I don’t think either player type is somehow deserving more than the other regardless of which players bring in more money. The game needs to be taken seriously as a whole. There’s possibly more pvx players than anyone is saying here. PvE matters, PvP matters and WvW matters.

If making money becomes the driving motivation for content that usually leads to a less fun game. A better game must be inherent.

sparc.3649:

You guys are DEAD wrong about WvW making ANet more money than PvE. It’s quite OBVIOUS that PvE makes them more money, since it gets all of their attention. If WvW made them the bulk of their money, then they would clearly work more on that!

I don’t care if you had a FULL guild and you all spent $1,000 per month. Trust me, you’re STILL outspent by all the PvE spenders! Otherwise, again, WvW would get more attention than it does.

So, please, stop ASSUMING WvW makes them more money. It is simply not true. Trust me, what was the last main number of overall accounts, seven million? I want to say. If I had to guess, I’d even venture to say only 25% of all accounts (~2 mil) WvW at all, and maybe only 15% (~1 mil) “LIVE” in WvW. Now there’s some assumptions for ya :P

Another thing, if all you people are leaving WVW, guess what – that means EVEN LESS people doing it, therefore making PVE REALLY out spend WVW. So, to be technical (on the business side of things), NOW wouldn’t be the time to be leaving if you want shet fixed. Now would be the time to be spending more than you ever have before. Though all the WVW people would have their work cut out for them since a BULK of ANets playerbase is PVE (or even PVP) but just not WVW…

But anyway, if EVERYONE did WvW, there would be queues on EVERY server at EVERY tier. What’s the cap now, only a few hundred people. Yea, trust me, PVE players WAY outnumber the WVW players (and therefore outnumber the WVW ‘spenders’).

Maybe one day you can realize and accept that…

You guys = lil dev and I don’t think anyone else. Your reasoning is also mine, but I’ll let you reason with lil dev – I give up.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Just want to say that, because PvErs don’t need to spend as much money to supposedly enjoy the game, doesn’t automatically mean that they spend less money.

Plus there’s always been more PvErs.

Plus I don’t think either player type is somehow deserving more than the other regardless of which players bring in more money. The game needs to be taken seriously as a whole. There’s possibly more pvx players than anyone is saying here. PvE matters, PvP matters and WvW matters.

If making money becomes the driving motivation for content that usually leads to a less fun game. A better game must be inherent.

I agree, and I don’t as a WvW player who is revolted by PvE do not actually mind using the money I pay in every month ( well did , I am not spending a dime until DBL are gone) to help pay for PvE content for others as long as I get nonstop challenging, strategic, fun, large scale PvP action in return.

Of course most of the players are PvE and they should keep providing them content, but that doesn’t mean ignore WvW players or PvP players. But like I said earlier, as a WvW player I think they should listen to PvE players to gage what content their PvE players want and listen to PvP players to gage what PvP content they want and listen to WvW players to gage what WvW players want. WvW being my primary game mode, that is where I am most knowledgeable about the game and the many players I have played with over the years on many servers and have friends and family still on those servers (both NA and EU) and that is where I would have the most input. I think the same can be said for PvE players about PvE and PvP players about PvP. For PvX players most changes to any one of those game modes is not a deal breaker for them that would make them /uninstall as it is with the other types of players so they are a bit more flexible in what they like/ detest. To some WvW players.. they honestly are so repulsed by PvE they cannot even stand to be there at all and would rather pay someone else real cash to do that stuff for them so they would not have to if there is something they need to do that requires PvE to gain an advantage in PvP game modes. Some players would honestly rather quit the game all together if it requires they step foot in PvE.. They are so repulsed by PvE they do not even do their personal story ( not even once) and still have that green star thingy showing at all times.. XD

(The issue with money spent is the actual nature of PvE is why they do not need to spend $. You earn more than you can use in game if you actually just do PvE only and can convert your gold to gems to buy items from gem shop. Most of the players I know in WvW that go to PvE at all, are not doing so for fun, they are trying to not spend as much in the gem shop as they would without PvE. Not because they actually want to do PvE…)

In addition MUCH of the " new accounts" are actually just multiple accounts owned by WvW players. Unlike PvE players, WvW players actually need accounts on multiple servers so they can play against different guilds. Most everyone I know has multiple accounts , some have them on every single EU and NA server already…

Liston.9708:

sparc.3649:

You guys are DEAD wrong about WvW making ANet more money than PvE. It’s quite OBVIOUS that PvE makes them more money, since it gets all of their attention. If WvW made them the bulk of their money, then they would clearly work more on that!

I don’t care if you had a FULL guild and you all spent $1,000 per month. Trust me, you’re STILL outspent by all the PvE spenders! Otherwise, again, WvW would get more attention than it does.

So, please, stop ASSUMING WvW makes them more money. It is simply not true. Trust me, what was the last main number of overall accounts, seven million? I want to say. If I had to guess, I’d even venture to say only 25% of all accounts (~2 mil) WvW at all, and maybe only 15% (~1 mil) “LIVE” in WvW. Now there’s some assumptions for ya :P

Another thing, if all you people are leaving WVW, guess what – that means EVEN LESS people doing it, therefore making PVE REALLY out spend WVW. So, to be technical (on the business side of things), NOW wouldn’t be the time to be leaving if you want shet fixed. Now would be the time to be spending more than you ever have before. Though all the WVW people would have their work cut out for them since a BULK of ANets playerbase is PVE (or even PVP) but just not WVW…

But anyway, if EVERYONE did WvW, there would be queues on EVERY server at EVERY tier. What’s the cap now, only a few hundred people. Yea, trust me, PVE players WAY outnumber the WVW players (and therefore outnumber the WVW ‘spenders’).

Maybe one day you can realize and accept that…

You guys = lil dev and I don’t think anyone else. Your reasoning is also mine, but I’ll let you reason with lil dev – I give up.

I am sure the quarterly reports will speak for themselves. See how it goes after this month.

Yes because they make it publicly known in a breakdown what “aspect” of the game makes more money…

Again, you’re just in fantasy land that WvW players spend more – they don’t

Logic shows us this…

sparc.3649:

Yes because they make it publicly known in a breakdown what “aspect” of the game makes more money…

Again, you’re just in fantasy land that WvW players spend more – they don’t

Logic shows us this…

Logic shows that people usually have a reason to spend money to spend it. The fact that you earn more than you need to use in game in PvE just by playing PvE, means you do not need to spend $ to buy items from the gem store if you only PvE since you can convert gold to gems. Players play PvE to make $$ in game, not spend it.

So you still THINK that WVW cash shoppers outspend PVE cash shoppers?

Have fun in “la la land” bro!

sparc.3649:

So you still THINK that WVW cash shoppers outspend PVE cash shoppers?

Have fun in “la la land” bro!

People go to PvE to farm gold.. why would they need to spend it to PvE? You can convert that farmed gold to gems to buy anything in the gem store…
* is not a bro*

sparc.3649:

Svarty.8019:

NO. No more “Alpine was amazing” lies! It wasn’t amazing. It was, frankly, boring.

I implore Arenanet devs to ignore these miserable few forum warriors.

^This, we needed these awesome new maps!

Thanks ANET for replacing those BORING old maps! I can’t wait to see what else they have in store for WvW…

To all the QQers, don’t let the door hit chya on the way out! Don’t worry, WvW will survive just fine without you! For every one of you that QQ your way out the door, we’ll recruit 2 new people…

Dear Sir,

Since it appears that you limit yourself to this forum, you seem to assume that this is the only venue where there is communication between devs and players, and that there are only two of us. So here’s some unsolicited advice: broaden your horizons and research other social media.

We are still here, and we are legion. We know how to help save this game mode, and we have been speaking out elsewhere.

And now we are back. And we are being heard.

Enjoy your unnecessary, baiting insults while you can. And stay tuned to this subforum. All two of us will be posting frequently. /sarcasm