Guild Wars 2

AS most already know, Tyler said we will be getting a vote to scrap the DBL from WvW in an upcoming poll. For many, the idea of saving the DBL at all is not really much of a concern, however, it would be bad for everything from that to go to waste and for it to be considered a complete loss.

Although it is expected that the DBL will be voted out entirely, It could be an agreeable option to remove it from the live game and take it back to beta instead and to not release it again the community votes to agree that the map is ready and wanted. If they poll players to see what changes are made, test it, poll again, test it, and not release it until the 75% want it in the game, it gives them the opportunity to make it into a good map and also allows for players to not be forced to play on it until it is ready.

Personally, I think it was way too soon after players returning for Alpine to even attempt to bring up the DBL at all yet and they should have made another map (nothing to do with desert) and test/ poll/test/poll/test/ poll until it is ready to server as a buffer between the negativity attached to the DBL and the positivity that should come from getting a new map to get players excited about new maps again before even trying to address the DBL.

But if they absolutely do not want to work on a buffer map instead right now, and want to risk players not even willing to try it when they do change it, they can at least try to take it back to beta and test/poll/test/poll/test/poll until it is ready and not do away with it all together.

I think for many that would be an agreeable solution that does not remove the option of them at least trying to make the map better for everyone involved.

This is really the solution.

Tyler, this is the way out of the mess that the previous poll created. For the upcoming poll about removing the DBL, do not make it a permanent removal. Make it removal to adjust the DBL.

I think it would be great fun to have the re-vamped DBL put in place of one of the Alpines to test it again in the future.

Edit. I wrote this before I saw Tyler’s post in the other thread about re-running the previous poll. So not sure what to say now.

Rotate it with eotm and test it there. Eotm was designed for testing ideas and giving people something to do during queue. I hate the map in its current form but I’d be more than happy to play it and check out changes so long as I have real wvw to fall back on if the map is still bad.

My support is for the longevity of WvW. I don’t see it ever growing while remaining stale with the alpines. While my personal prefence is for me to play on the Alpines or EBG, I would rather support bring in more maps to provide options. Who knows, maybe one day I will like DBL. Maybe providing avenues for all players who play WvW is the right decision. We sure as hell are not filling up the maps with only DBL’s or only Alpines. And I’m in t1 NA. Been in since BWE1 on my other account, and to be honest, we can all run alpine blind folded by now.

Also, if we, as a community show support for the effort and work the company is putting in, we may be able to get into a position where we may get a new map every few years. Hell, I’ll throw gems or cc if it will give WvW half the attention pve players get.

Because of the huge stigma for DBL being bad, it may just be more realistic to scrap it and move forward. They are probably to the point that they do not want to put more dev time into a map that alot of the community has boycotted vehemently irregardless of past changes and the presumed ones to come.

Justine.6351:

Because of the huge stigma for DBL being bad, it may just be more realistic to scrap it and move forward. They are probably to the point that they do not want to put more dev time into a map that alot of the community has boycotted vehemently irregardless of past changes and the presumed ones to come.

Oh I disagree, you know their mudblood pumping hearts won’t let go. They’ll force us to play it.

RodOfDeath.5247:

Justine.6351:

Because of the huge stigma for DBL being bad, it may just be more realistic to scrap it and move forward. They are probably to the point that they do not want to put more dev time into a map that alot of the community has boycotted vehemently irregardless of past changes and the presumed ones to come.

Oh I disagree, you know their mudblood pumping hearts won’t let go. They’ll force us to play it.

More and more they are using polls because they are no doubt getting sick of crybaby threads. They are making a visual record with polls that they can just point to whenever someone makes incorrect absolute claims about what the community wants. If the community majority vote scraps the DBL and people cry that they wanted it kept, the devs wont have to take heat for it, they can just point to the relevant poll/s.

Its actually kind of brilliant for them and also an opportunity for the community aswell. Just need to see how it gets used.

This last poll was kind of a fail sadly, someone said it right when pointing out that the people who won the vote was the 30% who voted no, aka quarterly 100% BL map swaps.

Do a bit of tweaking and make it into a PvE map.

• PvE players will be happy since it alleviates the content drought a tiny bit.
• WvW players will be happy since it’s finally gone.
• Devs save some face.

lil devils x.6071:

AS most already know, Tyler said we will be getting a vote to scrap the DBL from WvW in an upcoming poll. For many, the idea of saving the DBL at all is not really much of a concern, however, it would be bad for everything from that to go to waste and for it to be considered a complete loss.

Although it is expected that the DBL will be voted out entirely, It could be an agreeable option to remove it from the live game and take it back to beta instead and to not release it again the community votes to agree that the map is ready and wanted. If they poll players to see what changes are made, test it, poll again, test it, and not release it until the 75% want it in the game, it gives them the opportunity to make it into a good map and also allows for players to not be forced to play on it until it is ready.

Personally, I think it was way too soon after players returning for Alpine to even attempt to bring up the DBL at all yet and they should have made another map (nothing to do with desert) and test/ poll/test/poll/test/ poll until it is ready to server as a buffer between the negativity attached to the DBL and the positivity that should come from getting a new map to get players excited about new maps again before even trying to address the DBL.

But if they absolutely do not want to work on a buffer map instead right now, and want to risk players not even willing to try it when they do change it, they can at least try to take it back to beta and test/poll/test/poll/test/poll until it is ready and not do away with it all together.

I think for many that would be an agreeable solution that does not remove the option of them at least trying to make the map better for everyone involved.

As much as I think it’s a good idea, I also think it is what was intended from the very beginning. They always said developpement was a dynamic process, and I’m truly not sure they were considering DBL to be finished, carved into stone, and not going to change ever again. Proof it they significatively changed it during its uptime (which clearly was shorter than total ABL uptime).

Somehow, the rotation of maps could have fit perfectly with this idea : one quarter DBL, get some feedback, and work to improve DBL while ABL is on, then improve ABL while new-DBL is on, etc. etc. etc. Seems logical, and predictable.

Then, I’m pessimistic about what I’m saying, and I don’t think what the OP is asking for will ever happen. Because some really noisy people in the community were so radical they could only envision DBL to just be flushed down the sewers, erase all memory of DBL, and re-educate whoever said they enjoyed it to the slightest. (maybe I’m overdoing it a bit )

Such extreme behaviour and extreme positions can only lead to extreme answers, and now, we’re to the point a huge bunch of their work will now be polled out, with the probable outcome WvW will be stuck with ABL and only left with minor upgrades till the end.

Maybe a wiser, cooler, more positive and more patient behaviour would have led things going the OP way, but now we got this path, we have to try and think about what’s best for the whole game, present and future, and for the whole community, whichever way ppl enjoy WvW.

It would have gotten it’s testing time if it had been voted in for 1dbl 2abl, it needs to be on live where enough players will play it to provide feedback now and improved now.

A new map is probably going to take over 6 months, and that’s after the scoring changes which may also take 6 months (we don’t have a definitive time on it).

When Tyler first mentioned the option of putting in 1 dbl and 2abl, I thought great do it and seem how it works out, not put it to a poll first (hopefully they reword the next one properly).

Now for the people who voted “no” and want to stick to the 3 month rotation, just pushed more players to want to just delete the dbl if that scenario will continue.

Eotm is also “bad” but you don’t see players calling to scrap it, no instead they just don’t play it, they would have had that same option with the dbl, if you don’t like it then play on the other 2 abl’s. Too much hate and not enough compromise with some players in here.

Also I wouldn’t want to work on another map if the ungrateful asked to scrap an entire map that a lot of time and work was put into, imagine the team at anet having to do that, think about that when you decide to vote to delete the dbl.

Xenesis.6389:

Now for the people who voted “no” and want to stick to the 3 month rotation, just pushed more players to want to just delete the dbl if that scenario will continue.

Indeed. If a vote comes up to scrap it, I’ll vote yes in a heartbeat. I dont care how much work devs put into it or if it can be further “fixed”, the threat of 3 long months of the community being torn apart is simply too great, no more compromise.

Dawdler.8521:

Xenesis.6389:

Now for the people who voted “no” and want to stick to the 3 month rotation, just pushed more players to want to just delete the dbl if that scenario will continue.

Indeed. If a vote comes up to scrap it, I’ll vote yes in a heartbeat. I dont care how much work devs put into it or if it can be further “fixed”, the threat of 3 long months of the community being torn apart is simply too great, no more compromise.

Yup. I could deal with having 2 alpine 1 dbl (although I still see this as a problem), but it’s not worth the risk of the the mixed bl vote failing and watching the community get destroyed if we are stuck with the dbl again. I’ll definitely be voting for its destruction.

If they end up being bitter and decide to never make a new map we’d still get a good year or 2 of playable WvW while slowly losing players to stagnation, if they bring back the dbl that’s pretty much game over .

Puck.9612:

Dawdler.8521:

Xenesis.6389:

Now for the people who voted “no” and want to stick to the 3 month rotation, just pushed more players to want to just delete the dbl if that scenario will continue.

Indeed. If a vote comes up to scrap it, I’ll vote yes in a heartbeat. I dont care how much work devs put into it or if it can be further “fixed”, the threat of 3 long months of the community being torn apart is simply too great, no more compromise.

Yup. I could deal with having 2 alpine 1 dbl (although I still see this as a problem), but it’s not worth the risk of the the mixed bl vote failing and watching the community get destroyed if we are stuck with the dbl again. I’ll definitely be voting for its destruction.

If they end up being bitter and decide to never make a new map we’d still get a good year or 2 of playable WvW while slowly losing players to stagnation, if they bring back the dbl that’s pretty much game over .

The 2 alpine 1 DBL option still would lose players though due to the imbalance it creates between the teams. For players who actually try to play all maps and try to defend and attack all objectives as part of their game play they are basically getting a broken game mode all of the time. For those who hop between all the maps defending and attacking this was how this was viewed:

1)Mixed BLs= Broken game mode all of the time.
2) Rotation= Playable game mode part of the time
3)No DBL= playable game mode all of the time.

For players who just played on one map doing whatever the mixed BLS were fine, but for those who play the whole game ( all maps) being their battlefield and they actually care about the score and balance, adding the DBL added an element to the game mode that made the game mode unplayable because of how many players were unwilling to go there at all making it so whoever had the most players on their server even willing to go to the DBL would win by default.

Players seem to think that having a mixed BL meant people could just play where they want and how they want. That works for only players who do not hop to all maps and defend an attack all objectives and care about the score and balance. For those players, the game mode is unplayable/ broken with mixed BLs and you are then giving them a broken game mode all of the time with mixed BLs rather than having the option of ever having a playable game mode at all.

As LordKuru said: Make it PvE map. It had gorgeous visuals and with a little bit of tweaking it would be awesome for just running around and exploring. Toss in there some strong mobs to fight and it could see some traffic. Maybe make it something like map where legendary mobs (like that legendary giant in Drytop) would spawn at random and wreck stuff until defeated. And later on could be upgraded to have more and more events related to Mists and things like that.
Plus, all the work that went making it will not be pointless.

martin.1653:

As LordKuru said: Make it PvE map. It had gorgeous visuals and with a little bit of tweaking it would be awesome for just running around and exploring. Toss in there some strong mobs to fight and it could see some traffic. Maybe make it something like map where legendary mobs (like that legendary giant in Drytop) would spawn at random and wreck stuff until defeated. And later on could be upgraded to have more and more events related to Mists and things like that.
Plus, all the work that went making it will not be pointless.

They already have a pve wvw map, its called silverwastes. And that’s a desert too.

What do I not understand is that if certain things work in real life, why should some people “try to reinvent the Hot Water”?
I mean, polls are actually an expression of democracy, so why should ANet try to please everyone when it knew that this would never be possible?
After all, if we want to use democratic methods and if we all agree that the majority should always decides over the minority, why not let the players of a server (or a server group) to choose by direct vote on what type of map (Alpine, Desert or other) want to play for next week?
This vote will be carried out in the game by WvW players, by mail (as the invitations already sent by Anet when a new poll start) or better, through a separate section of WvW window, which can be accessed by everyone who meets certain criteria (you know what I’m saying).
In this section, you could see the current voting result, to its conclusion, and also other surveys and/or a history of the previous voting. Actually, there was already something like in PvP (and many other PvP type games), when players are invited to choose which map they will play the next game.
Also, the different new proposed maps could be tested/shown first in EoTM (or on Beta servers) and in time if players like those new maps and choose to play next WvW week on them, so be it.
Thus, everyone would be “happy” and none which understands how democracy works would have nothing to comment.

lil devils x.6071:

Puck.9612:

Dawdler.8521:

Xenesis.6389:

Now for the people who voted “no” and want to stick to the 3 month rotation, just pushed more players to want to just delete the dbl if that scenario will continue.

Indeed. If a vote comes up to scrap it, I’ll vote yes in a heartbeat. I dont care how much work devs put into it or if it can be further “fixed”, the threat of 3 long months of the community being torn apart is simply too great, no more compromise.

Yup. I could deal with having 2 alpine 1 dbl (although I still see this as a problem), but it’s not worth the risk of the the mixed bl vote failing and watching the community get destroyed if we are stuck with the dbl again. I’ll definitely be voting for its destruction.

If they end up being bitter and decide to never make a new map we’d still get a good year or 2 of playable WvW while slowly losing players to stagnation, if they bring back the dbl that’s pretty much game over .

The 2 alpine 1 DBL option still would lose players though due to the imbalance it creates between the teams. For players who actually try to play all maps and try to defend and attack all objectives as part of their game play they are basically getting a broken game mode all of the time. For those who hop between all the maps defending and attacking this was how this was viewed:

1)Mixed BLs= Broken game mode all of the time.
2) Rotation= Playable game mode part of the time
3)No DBL= playable game mode all of the time.

For players who just played on one map doing whatever the mixed BLS were fine, but for those who play the whole game ( all maps) being their battlefield and they actually care about the score and balance, adding the DBL added an element to the game mode that made the game mode unplayable because of how many players were unwilling to go there at all making it so whoever had the most players on their server even willing to go to the DBL would win by default.

Players seem to think that having a mixed BL meant people could just play where they want and how they want. That works for only players who do not hop to all maps and defend an attack all objectives and care about the score and balance. For those players, the game mode is unplayable/ broken with mixed BLs and you are then giving them a broken game mode all of the time with mixed BLs rather than having the option of ever having a playable game mode at all.

I agree, that’s why I said I’d still have a problem with it.

For me it comes down to broken >unplayable. Mixed bl’s is broken, dbl is unplayable, and (3 months of) dbl would drive off way more people than mixed bl’s would.

A weekly rotation is bearable. Sticking the dbl in a rotation with eotm until they fix it would be ideal.

lil devils x.6071:

The 2 alpine 1 DBL option still would lose players though due to the imbalance it creates between the teams. For players who actually try to play all maps and try to defend and attack all objectives as part of their game play they are basically getting a broken game mode all of the time. For those who hop between all the maps defending and attacking this was how this was viewed:

1)Mixed BLs= Broken game mode all of the time.
2) Rotation= Playable game mode part of the time
3)No DBL= playable game mode all of the time.

For players who just played on one map doing whatever the mixed BLS were fine, but for those who play the whole game ( all maps) being their battlefield and they actually care about the score and balance, adding the DBL added an element to the game mode that made the game mode unplayable because of how many players were unwilling to go there at all making it so whoever had the most players on their server even willing to go to the DBL would win by default.

Players seem to think that having a mixed BL meant people could just play where they want and how they want. That works for only players who do not hop to all maps and defend an attack all objectives and care about the score and balance. For those players, the game mode is unplayable/ broken with mixed BLs and you are then giving them a broken game mode all of the time with mixed BLs rather than having the option of ever having a playable game mode at all.

And what is the reality today?

Exactly the same.

I jump onto an enemy border. No one there. Not even outmanned. They hold most things. I ask for help from the community guild to build some siege for a single T0 tower. Nope, 95% or so of the border population is on home zerging a tag and the rest is on EB. No one comes. Looks at home. Almost painted fully in our color.

Had it been desert, it would have made zero difference.

So I fail to see the point. As I said in another thread, people are overthinking it. People are unwilling to go to alpine bls already, unless one of their favorite pug commanders decide to raid there.

Dawdler.8521:

lil devils x.6071:

The 2 alpine 1 DBL option still would lose players though due to the imbalance it creates between the teams. For players who actually try to play all maps and try to defend and attack all objectives as part of their game play they are basically getting a broken game mode all of the time. For those who hop between all the maps defending and attacking this was how this was viewed:

1)Mixed BLs= Broken game mode all of the time.
2) Rotation= Playable game mode part of the time
3)No DBL= playable game mode all of the time.

For players who just played on one map doing whatever the mixed BLS were fine, but for those who play the whole game ( all maps) being their battlefield and they actually care about the score and balance, adding the DBL added an element to the game mode that made the game mode unplayable because of how many players were unwilling to go there at all making it so whoever had the most players on their server even willing to go to the DBL would win by default.

Players seem to think that having a mixed BL meant people could just play where they want and how they want. That works for only players who do not hop to all maps and defend an attack all objectives and care about the score and balance. For those players, the game mode is unplayable/ broken with mixed BLs and you are then giving them a broken game mode all of the time with mixed BLs rather than having the option of ever having a playable game mode at all.

And what is the reality today?

Exactly the same.

I jump onto an enemy border. No one there. Not even outmanned. They hold most things. I ask for help from the community guild to build some siege for a single T0 tower. Nope, 95% or so of the border population is on home zerging a tag and the rest is on EB. No one comes. Looks at home. Almost painted fully in our color.

Had it been desert, it would have made zero difference.

So I fail to see the point. As I said in another thread, people are overthinking it. People are unwilling to go to alpine bls already, unless one of their favorite pug commanders decide to raid there.

Did you try taking the tower?
If you aren’t hitting anything no one will show up to defend.
Since the return of alpine I have been able to hop on the bl’s any time of day and draw out small scale fights. Not only do people actually show up when you start attacking things, they return after you kill them, so you get multiple fights in 1 location.

The few times I actually encountered players in the dbl (besides the random 15+ man karma train) I would maybe get 1 fight and never see them again. Most the time they’d wp away or use the PvE gimmicks (like jumping off a cliff without falling damage) to run from a 1v1.

I’m betting these are some of the same players that kept crying on the forums about how they couldn’t cap anything on alpine without people killing them lol.

humm, if DBL get out of WvW, with a few spwan changes would fit nicelly EOTM.

The problems with polling is that it’s far too basic. For example, what would happen if they added gliding to WvW? That would change how DBL is played greatly. Which would alter players opinions of it greatly.

Now, as a visual design, I still despise the desert theme, period. I don’t understand the dev’s fascination with the desert themes. They have to be the dreariest, glass half empty, and anti-life, developers on the planet. The expansion is “Heart of Thorns” and we’re adventuring into the jungle. How the frick they thought it would be thematically appropriate to give WvW a desert map and a desert Guild Hall is still mind boggling. How much desert are we going to be stuck with when we go to the Crystal Desert???
<sigh>

DeWolfe.2174 glide into WvW is to dangerous and it is at another level, that would have to be super limited, limited to clesses, limited to 1 or 2, and with automatic fly paths to avoid abusing flying directo to keeps/towers.

imagine a mesmer glidding into a tower/keep, cause on game peeps think it is clever to build towers and keeps on valays... lold..

History proved that they need to be in higher ground, silly Anet.

Justine.6351:

martin.1653:

As LordKuru said: Make it PvE map. It had gorgeous visuals and with a little bit of tweaking it would be awesome for just running around and exploring. Toss in there some strong mobs to fight and it could see some traffic. Maybe make it something like map where legendary mobs (like that legendary giant in Drytop) would spawn at random and wreck stuff until defeated. And later on could be upgraded to have more and more events related to Mists and things like that.
Plus, all the work that went making it will not be pointless.

They already have a pve wvw map, its called silverwastes. And that’s a desert too.

They already have 1 expansion. No need to make another one, right?
Anyways, map is there, why not use it to expand the game instead of discarding it. If you don’t wanna play it, that’s fine, but there are people that will play it. Having options is a wonderful thing.

lil devils x.6071:

The 2 alpine 1 DBL option still would lose players though due to the imbalance it creates between the teams. For players who actually try to play all maps and try to defend and attack all objectives as part of their game play they are basically getting a broken game mode all of the time. For those who hop between all the maps defending and attacking this was how this was viewed:

1)Mixed BLs= Broken game mode all of the time.
2) Rotation= Playable game mode part of the time
3)No DBL= playable game mode all of the time.

For players who just played on one map doing whatever the mixed BLS were fine, but for those who play the whole game ( all maps) being their battlefield and they actually care about the score and balance, adding the DBL added an element to the game mode that made the game mode unplayable because of how many players were unwilling to go there at all making it so whoever had the most players on their server even willing to go to the DBL would win by default.

Players seem to think that having a mixed BL meant people could just play where they want and how they want. That works for only players who do not hop to all maps and defend an attack all objectives and care about the score and balance. For those players, the game mode is unplayable/ broken with mixed BLs and you are then giving them a broken game mode all of the time with mixed BLs rather than having the option of ever having a playable game mode at all.

Alright guys it’s a Kobayashi Maru situation, pack it up, we’re moving back to ebg all day everyday. Since no borderland scenario is ever going to be fair.

martin.1653:

Justine.6351:

martin.1653:

As LordKuru said: Make it PvE map. It had gorgeous visuals and with a little bit of tweaking it would be awesome for just running around and exploring. Toss in there some strong mobs to fight and it could see some traffic. Maybe make it something like map where legendary mobs (like that legendary giant in Drytop) would spawn at random and wreck stuff until defeated. And later on could be upgraded to have more and more events related to Mists and things like that.
Plus, all the work that went making it will not be pointless.

They already have a pve wvw map, its called silverwastes. And that’s a desert too.

They already have 1 expansion. No need to make another one, right?
Anyways, map is there, why not use it to expand the game instead of discarding it. If you don’t wanna play it, that’s fine, but there are people that will play it. Having options is a wonderful thing.

Don’t be disappointed when you find its an on/off type map like SW/AB/DS where its either 100% dead most of the time or 100% full whenever its worth playing.

To convert it over to pve would require so much overhaul that it would probably be easier to start from scratch while simultaneously avoiding the “DBL is baddddd” stigma. Unless the community actually wants a zerg driven meta map that promotes pvd and is completed from start to finish in ~20min.

The changes to the DBL were good, they simplified the air keep area and made the fire keep more accessible from the sand dunes. But it could use a little more simplification and less verticality. I dont understand where Anet got this bright idea that by adding more complexity, verticality and general useless PvE kitten to a map it somehow magically becomes more engaging.

The Northern towers are pointless outside of PPT. Move them in so you can treb garri just like Alpine from these towers. Copypasta the bloodlust area from alpine over the top of the DBL mega laser area. Make the middle area more accessible.

Then add one more map and have 3 terrains in rotation, Alpine, Desert and another(Jungle?).

Chorazin.4107:

The changes to the DBL were good, they simplified the air keep area and made the fire keep more accessible from the sand dunes. But it could use a little more simplification and less verticality. I dont understand where Anet got this bright idea that by adding more complexity, verticality and general useless PvE kitten to a map it somehow magically becomes more engaging.

The Northern towers are pointless outside of PPT. Move them in so you can treb garri just like Alpine from these towers. Copypasta the bloodlust area from alpine over the top of the DBL mega laser area. Make the middle area more accessible.

Then add one more map and have 3 terrains in rotation, Alpine, Desert and another(Jungle?).

It was probably based on EotM. Because people running karma trains there anet thought it was popular as an actual wvw map.

I think if they added gliding to dbl like they originally intended to people would actually like it

I really don’t like the jungle suggestion people keep making. Sounds way too closed in.
Maybe something like a tropical island instead with some(not overkill) jungle, mountains and caves in the middle of the map, and real shallow water (that you can run through) and small connecting islands around the outside.
You could throw in beach shacks and shipwrecked boats for LoS obstacles, and at least one of the keeps would need to be a pirate fortress made from old ship parts.

The mountain and jungle in the center could hold the shrines that offer buffs (nothing ridiculous like the dbl gimmicks) and provide the type of terrain you could hide from zergs in, but it would be slower to cut across the map because the paths aren’t as direct. I don’t mean make it ridiculously convoluted like the dbl was where you had to travel a mile to the left to make a right turn. I’m thinking more like the ruins which provide enough twists and turns to make a zerg lose interest but you can still move in a relatively straight line without hitting dead ends.

You could use the caves as short cuts to cross under the center of the map to get to objectives quicker. Make most of it above the water line but maybe include a few underwater passages with a current that moves you along at +33-50% speed (depending on size of the map).

I’m not sure this topic is the good place for wishful thinkings and projets about WvW mechanics or even new maps… And it’s mainly because, should DBL be voted out, the devs won’t probably pay much attention to WvW in the forecoming months.

The idea here is to get out of this mess in a positive way for everyone, and that’ll let the game evolve and improve, to make WvW an even more enjoyable place. And as the OP said, this goes by positive and constructive feedback, no extreme “Just burn DBL with fire positions” and careful thinking about what should be voted in the DBL poll.

Justine.6351:

martin.1653:

Justine.6351:

martin.1653:

As LordKuru said: Make it PvE map. It had gorgeous visuals and with a little bit of tweaking it would be awesome for just running around and exploring. Toss in there some strong mobs to fight and it could see some traffic. Maybe make it something like map where legendary mobs (like that legendary giant in Drytop) would spawn at random and wreck stuff until defeated. And later on could be upgraded to have more and more events related to Mists and things like that.
Plus, all the work that went making it will not be pointless.

They already have a pve wvw map, its called silverwastes. And that’s a desert too.

They already have 1 expansion. No need to make another one, right?
Anyways, map is there, why not use it to expand the game instead of discarding it. If you don’t wanna play it, that’s fine, but there are people that will play it. Having options is a wonderful thing.

Don’t be disappointed when you find its an on/off type map like SW/AB/DS where its either 100% dead most of the time or 100% full whenever its worth playing.

To convert it over to pve would require so much overhaul that it would probably be easier to start from scratch while simultaneously avoiding the “DBL is baddddd” stigma. Unless the community actually wants a zerg driven meta map that promotes pvd and is completed from start to finish in ~20min.

I’d be happy if they just used map as is and added some random spawn points for champs and legendary mobs. Some would be soloable, some would require smaller groups. No need to make it like DS at all. Just a simple map where people could come, run around and search for champs and nodes. Nothing more nothing less. Later on it could have more fleshed out events if map traffic is decent enough.
Even if there isn’t that much interest in map, we would basically get one extra map for various shenanigans and Anet gets a week off for releasing large amount of content for basically zero effort.

Hexinx.1872:

I don’t see it ever growing while remaining stale with the alpines.

So do you also get tired of looking at the same football fields, same basketball courts, same baseball fields, etc??? Alpine is simply the field we’re playing on. It is well designed and works great for WvW game play.

The open field is significantly better on Alpine than it is on DBL and it isn’t a pain just to find your enemies. I don’t want to see DBL back, I don’t want them to change Alpine even. It is perfect as it is and since it has returned, myself and my guild have all greatly enjoyed having it back.

XTR.9604:

Hexinx.1872:

I don’t see it ever growing while remaining stale with the alpines.

So do you also get tired of looking at the same football fields, same basketball courts, same baseball fields, etc??? Alpine is simply the field we’re playing on. It is well designed and works great for WvW game play.

The open field is significantly better on Alpine than it is on DBL and it isn’t a pain just to find your enemies. I don’t want to see DBL back, I don’t want them to change Alpine even. It is perfect as it is and since it has returned, myself and my guild have all greatly enjoyed having it back.

Alpine is mediocre as a map. It’s better than DBL was in November last year, but maybe not as good as the final iteration of DBL.

Heimlich.3065:

XTR.9604:

Hexinx.1872:

I don’t see it ever growing while remaining stale with the alpines.

So do you also get tired of looking at the same football fields, same basketball courts, same baseball fields, etc??? Alpine is simply the field we’re playing on. It is well designed and works great for WvW game play.

The open field is significantly better on Alpine than it is on DBL and it isn’t a pain just to find your enemies. I don’t want to see DBL back, I don’t want them to change Alpine even. It is perfect as it is and since it has returned, myself and my guild have all greatly enjoyed having it back.

Alpine is mediocre as a map. It’s better than DBL was in November last year, but maybe not as good as the final iteration of DBL.

If they continue to tunning DBL over time i would become a good map, alot of tweaks were needed to be added and fixed to actually feel like a borderland.

But imo, the map was a good concept of ideas, but just as a concept, gw2 players arent that good to past some adversarities presented by Anet, no easy karma train etc…
Still for the Desert map to become that good would need many, many changes, even to keep layouts, some places were really horrible, Anet should keep more a realistic design and concept for those, it would be much more clean and simple.

ThomasC.1056:

I’m not sure this topic is the good place for wishful thinkings and projets about WvW mechanics or even new maps… And it’s mainly because, should DBL be voted out, the devs won’t probably pay much attention to WvW in the forecoming months.

If the devs think DBL should remain the game, it’s better if they don’t pay much attention to WvW.

lil devils x.6071:

Players seem to think that having a mixed BL meant people could just play where they want and how they want. That works for only players who do not hop to all maps and defend an attack all objectives and care about the score and balance. For those players, the game mode is unplayable/ broken with mixed BLs and you are then giving them a broken game mode all of the time with mixed BLs rather than having the option of ever having a playable game mode at all.

I wonder how players that care about score and balance are still in this game while the utterly broken scoring/off-time population mechanic has not changed in years (besides some alibi ppk thrown in).

Hexinx.1872:

My support is for the longevity of WvW. I don’t see it ever growing while remaining stale with the alpines. While my personal prefence is for me to play on the Alpines or EBG, I would rather support bring in more maps to provide options. Who knows, maybe one day I will like DBL. Maybe providing avenues for all players who play WvW is the right decision. We sure as hell are not filling up the maps with only DBL’s or only Alpines. And I’m in t1 NA. Been in since BWE1 on my other account, and to be honest, we can all run alpine blind folded by now.

Also, if we, as a community show support for the effort and work the company is putting in, we may be able to get into a position where we may get a new map every few years. Hell, I’ll throw gems or cc if it will give WvW half the attention pve players get.

Not having a new map/ABL becoming stale never was and is not the main threat of this game mode. The problem is 3 years of full neglectance regarding:
- Scoring system/population balance (see above)
- Timely balance changes with WvW in mind (Coalesence of Ruin, Perplexity…) and class balance overall (months/years of GWEN)
- Rewards in comparison with other game modes
- Impact of gear progression without reasonable means of acquisition (also point above)

Because the implementation of a poorly designed new map can make things actually worse, I could live with ABL (maybe some tweaks) for the rest of this game’s lifespan as long as they put work into those points i have listed.

Like i have suggested before; Make DBL a dungeon map with bay/hills/garri paths and when ya completed that a legendary duck in the middle for extra reward. All the work that has been put in the map wont go to waste, Anet caters to PvE players and us wvw players wont be bothered with it anymore.

Win/win/win situation.