Guild Wars 2

Okay so this thread is most likely NOT what you’re thinking it’s going to be. No it’s not me talking about whether they’re here already after today’s update, quite the opposite actually…

So I hear they’re bringing back the old A-BL’s? Well then, now it’s MY turn to Q.Q

I can’t believe they (anet) would cave in to all the WHINY babies. So, now it’s my time to be the whiny baby! Like I said, I can’t believe they’re going to cave in to you Q.Qers!

I don’t even know (nor do I care) if they actually plan to scrap the DBL’s all together or not (I doubt it, they worked very hard on them) – but the mere fact that they’re going to “cave in” to all the Q.Q – is a HUGE sign of weakness first off. Second off, I do know (luckily) I am NOT literally the ONLY person with this viewpoint, that, once they bring back your maps (due to all the Q.Q) you guys will be happy for a couple more months (somehow) and then people are still going to quit anyway. Especially after having nice new shiny’s (DBLs) people will play back on the old maps for, I personally give it 3 months (1Q), until the WvW just KEEPS going DOWNWARD. I give it three months until people are like “kitten these boring old dried up stale plain Jane looking maps (what were we thinkin LOL)”.

So here’s my Q.Q about that: Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q – ok enough, I’m done. I’ll keep Q.Qing in private now. I can’t believe the ABL’s are coming back, I can’t believe anet is making yet ANOTHER move that is just going to be the final NAILS in the coffin of WvW! I will now likely be leaving the game. I don’t wanna play a game made by a spineless company (if I was in charge I’d have told you all to suck it up). Well I’m taking my advice, I’m gonna suck it up, IN A NEW GAME. One that isn’t ran by a bunch of spineless employees who will cave in at the whim of some twelve year olds! Not to mention I don’t really desire to play with all you WHINERS who actually want those boring old dried up stale maps back either anyways. I hope you all have fun with your old maps, anet SHOULD have put them where they really belong after the release of DBL’s – IN THE CIRCULAR FILE!

But enough about that, first you Q.Q, now I Q.Q – awesome, a huge ******* Q.Q fest goin’ on over here! It was fun but I’m going to have to point out the obvious for anyone who doesn’t even realize it (even anet mayhaps?)…

The WHY. WHY is WvW “broke”. Some of you may still think this is subjective, let me be the first to tell you, it is not. Some of you may think it’s things like “OMGZ new BL’s suck” – let me tell you, IT’S NOT. THIS is why WvW is “broke”. There’s actually not a SINGLE reason, it’s all compounded – but adds up to the how/what/when/where/why WvW is on the degrade (and will continue to be – UNLESS this/these issue(s) are DIRECTLY addressed). Sadly I am not going to give a TL;DR version – so you’re just going to have to read this (what I believe is about to be a) wall of text! Here goes:

It does actually all begin with server population imbalance AKA “server stacking”. Since this has essentially been an issue (or potential one) since launch, it is one of if not THE biggest problems/reasons for the death of WvW. I wont even get into the speculation of the WHY people do it, nonetheless, PEOPLE DO IT. So, the top tier servers, due to server stacking, had what? REALLY LONG QUEUE TIMES. So, rather than fix the issue at hand (anet cough) by dealing with server population balance, they slap a band-aid on it. That bandaid was called EOTM. Now if you have a really long queue but you want to WvW, you can go to this place, EoTM, that will be LIKE WvW. Notice this surely does NOT fix “server stacking” one bit, because now rather than letting them suffer with long queues (mayhaps making them want to transfer to a lower tier), they have “EoTM” – GG anet, GG! This is one of the reasons I still insist that they SHOULD just completely REMOVE “EoTM”! After all, any of us “real WvWers” know that EoTM IS NOT WvW! What is EoTM? It is a “WvW-LIKE” Mega Server! Which brings us onto the other major player in what has/is ruined/ruining WvW. Mega-servers! Don’t get me wrong, I think they were/are a GREAT idea, for PvE – NOT WvW (or “EoTM”). Prior to mega-server, recruiting for WvW was VERY straight forward, and actually pretty easy to do, at least for me. I was even usually pretty good at convincing people to come just to “try it” even if they didn’t really want to. Funny, of course those are usually the people that wound up liking it the most LOL! Anyway, Mega-servers, have/are TRASHING WvW. How the heck am I supposed to recruit, and even more so, possibly bring NEW BLOOD to WvW when PvE is a HUGE cluster**** of ALL “servers”. Sure, you “can” – but NOT EFFECTIVELY. Reflecting upon it, Mega-servers is EXACTLY when my recruiting dropped probably by about 75%! I don’t care what other people THINK about that, or what other methods people may have/use – IN GAME recruiting is simply put, the BEST way of recruiting. I’ve tried external methods, including (this very) forum(s), etc! And while there may be a good number of people that check out this and other (“fan”) forums/websites; they STILL pale in comparison to the number of people who JUST PLAY THE GAME. So NO, I should NOT have to rely on external recruitment. Apparently I either suck at it, or it’s really just about as ineffective as I’ve just described anyways with the fact that “most people JUST PLAY THE GAME”! So here we have it, “server stacking” has always been an (THE?) issue. So rather than DIRECTLY address it, ANet gives us – EOTM. So now people that are already in WVW (w/ really long queues) just stay stacked, or re-stack, or whatever. And PvE receives “Mega-servers” too, so now we can’t really effectively bring in NEW BLOOD; at least NOTHING compared to before these “mega servers”!

So, is getting rid of “mega server” the best solution, no, at least not at this point. Like I said, Mega server was/is actually a good thing, for PvE… Which makes the whole “server” concept “outdated” for WvW then. Because now there’s an issue with balance surrounding ALL of GW2, because PART of the game doesn’t use “servers”, while WvW DOES. So the scale is tipped toward “mega server”- or, MOST of the game being ONE “huge” “server”. While WvW is still broken up into many many “servers”. Heck, the ONLY reason for “servers” now IS WvW – EVERYTHING else can be done, WITH your friends, REGARDLESS of what “server” you pick. So if “servers” aren’t the way of the land for PvE, they shouldn’t be for WvW either. While I can’t profess to hold the key (answer) to all or any of what actually does need to be done to “fix” WvW, I CAN say what I know it’s not. And it’s not leaving all these individual “servers” on a game that otherwise doesn’t have ANY other reason for those “servers”. Remember, we HAVE to have an effective way to recruit people to our “war” (WvW)! Not one, and this literally actually recently happened to me, where, you’re recruiting in PvE (of course, recruiting IN WvW is just as pointless, those people are ALREADY IN THE GAME MODE) and you get some guy/gal who is like “yea I’ll join your guild”, you get to talking about WvW and they’re not really into it but then you convince them to try it – CRAP, can’t (at least not with us) they’re on a different “server”!

So I also don’t think some of the very things I also hear they’re GOING to be doing, are really going to help EITHER! I heard they’re going to do some kind of “server merge” crap. That’s not going to do anything either; may make things “fun” for some people again, for a while – but it’s still IMHO ultimately just another BANDAID. That’s going to fall off eventually, and the wound will still eventually bleed out!

So, I know my ADD kind of took this thread all over, now to declare an official PURPOSE to this thread. Lets get some constructive ideas going (for anet >.>) as to, what they can do to, not just “fix wvw”, but specifically, fix wvw population (server stacking) and recruitment issues!

sparc.3649:

So I hear they’re bringing back the old A-BL’s? Well then, now it’s MY turn to Q.Q

Your post history say’s you’ve QQ enough on the topic.

They are letting us decide if we like the Desert bl now before they commit to replacing it with Alpine bl. I think this way more people will realize that there is actually a poll and participate in it.

DeWolfe.2174:

sparc.3649:

So I hear they’re bringing back the old A-BL’s? Well then, now it’s MY turn to Q.Q

Your post history say’s you’ve QQ enough on the topic.

Hell that book he just posted says he QQ’s enough.
@OP There’s nothing spineless about admitting a mistake and correcting it. Realizing you’ve made a mistake (such as a introducing a terrible map that drove off a huge portion of your player base) and not correcting it would be stupidity.

Alpine BL – best BL =)

ITS a win!!!

ALpine BL the best ! Desert BL destroyed all MVM fun / also the new catapult/trebu looks like a infantil design

Okay, so I guess I’ll be the first to start >.>

Angel Heart.6739:

Maybe there should be different map-instances for GVG apart WVW (from the ppl that like playing all aspects of the WvW game)? That way they do not interfere with eachother and do not diss on eachother. Is that an option?

I think this is actually may be not an entirely bad idea! And in direct relation to my post about “problems” I think there’s a perfect possible “resolution” that COULD work for all of this!

I would have normally likely been against such thing, but I have a vision that would permit ANet to always change stuff like this up if they/we wanted to!

ANet would have to get pretty creative, BUT, they would first need to create three factions. Lore or none, doesn’t bother me. For sake of conversation we’ll call them FACTION1, FACTION2, FACTION3. Players would then have to chose to be in ONE of these three factions. This would be 100% PERMANENT! If you wanted to change your ‘alignment’ or ‘alliance’ you’d have to delete the toon and rebuild it (or just make a new one w/o deleting if you have enough slots) to chose a new faction for said toon!

Then the “servers” themselves could become “campaigns”. Or, if you rather think of it this way – eliminate “servers” and make “campaigns” in THEIR place. Or you could of course call them whatever you want, but they’d still serve the same purpose, the “mission/campaign/server” would be the “battle/war” and each one could and would be different. Or, for example, be different maps even (as in different campaigns can carry different maps). Which would be PERFECT for all the people “fighting” about ABL vs. DBL. Some of the “mission/campaign/server” could be ABL, some could be DBL, or as this other guy asked for – more specifically – GvG type maps, or even more! They could keep all 24 “servers/campaigns/missions”. They should keep these so that they can be added/removed/changed “on the fly” however. They could add or remove as they see fit, or maybe even dynamically. They could do whatever they wanted w/ this part (think, ‘the sky is the limit’). They could have all 24 campaigns/mission/server be the same maps and whatnot like it already is right now. Or they could make 1/3 of them be WvW w/ ABL maps for BLs, 1/3 of them WvW w/ DBL maps for BLs, and 1/3 of them be more GvG oriented/focused. etc.etc.etc… Maybe even better to develop a dynamic system that would start out with just 3 server/mission/campaigns and dynamically create/remove more as needed.

So, the new system would work as follows. PLAYERA would pick a faction say, FACTION2. This would be a decision this player could NEVER “go back on”, the ONLY way to participate on a different faction would be to roll an additional toon or re-roll. This would/should make WvW recruiting MUCH more effective since people will be from one of three factions, rather than one of twenty four servers! Then, you could pick your “mission/campaign/server” based on whatever criteria you see fit, whether it be population, certain maps that it’s running, etc… Right now our “war” lasts a week, they could keep it that, or up it IMHO to 30 days. Every week (or 30days), at the end of a “match” you can chose a new “mission/campaign/server” (NO CHARGE) if your hearts desires have changed (say, you want a new map, or higher or lower pop play style). Switching before a match is over, NOT ALLOWED – PERIOD. So for a few possible examples of my system as visioned:

PLAYERA joins FACTION2. This week PLAYERA decides they want maps so they join the campaign “Darkhaven” for the maps it’s running. The enjoy the week, but figure they want population (higher/lower), so at the end of the match they chose the campaign “Jade Quarry” for the higher/lower population. The next week they join " Borlis Pass" for the maps and population! And so on and so forth. So no matter what, PLAYERA can NEVER chose anything OTHER than FACTION2, if he/she wants to that badly they can roll another toon, or re-roll. Otherwise, they’ll ALWAYS be FACTION2; and able to chose new campaigns every time one (match) ends.

Now as far as GW2/WVW and how we have RED, GREEN, and BLUE (At least in terms of how Eternal Battlegrounds is not synchronous) – the faction itself would NOT represent a color, because then you would ALWAYS “be one color”. Rather, keep the current type system or implement a random system to chose “color” for a “faction” for the “battle/war” (whether it remain a week, or be increased).

Additionally, FACTION and / or CAMPAIGN would need HARD caps (unlike the current server system). They need to find a way to keep things in balance so they don’t just stay like they are right now with people stacking to one side of the bus! Any “HARD CAP” for FACTION (difference) numbers would have to be planned and implemented VERY carefully to accommodate for people inactive, or that leave permanently. So I could live without any such FACTION “caps”. However, even “campaign/mission/servers” need HARD caps! And I strictly insist, based on how many people chose it, not how many happen to be on at that exact moment. Especially with them lasting only ONE WEEK, even an “abandonment” wouldn’t mean much as you’ll just be picking a new “campaign/mission/server” the next week again anyways! So have HARD caps that CANNOT be worked around, based on how many people chose that campaign for that week, even if they’ve been offline SIX POINT FIVE days, “sorry for ya”, once that hard cap is reached – wait until the match is over, then everyone re-chooses anyway! This would also be the perfect place to have a dynamic system designed and implemented. Once a “cap” is reached, GW2 can create additional campaigns as an option to join…

I don’t know, but it sounds like a very plausible solution to me! Better than what we have right now where everyone is sitting on one side of the bus, so it’s leaning like all crazy about to tip over. Not to mention the side it’s leaning over is about to experience a blowout because that’s the side that has the tire that has already gotten several nails in it, but all anet keeps doing is “patching” it, and not actually taking the time to pull over to change the tire out for a NEW one! So pretty soon we’ll get a blow out and fall right over the edge of the cliff when that happens! UNLESS ANet; STOPS, takes a minute, and CHANGES THE kitten TIRE!

The Alpine bl were much easier to navigate, Most knew them like the back of there hand. The new BL are confusing, frustrating, and just to big.

I am one of many that really want the Old Apline BL back. I miss the days of Golem zergs that you could NEVER pull off with the new desert bl. Trying to hide in the bay, and garri with a mesmer was always good fun. Sometimes you pulled it off, sometime you got caught.

Mosts wont even Tag up in the desert Bl, to confusing, to easy to kill your zerg with a wrong move off a cliff. I have even seen great comaders kill a zerg doing that.

I for one, as a mesmer, look forward to the Alpine’s coming back, trying to hide, and just having a great time.

I would prefer rotations between Alpine and Desert.

I agree recruiting for WvW is a nightmare. I think they need to either introduce a server chat for recruitment in PvE or make LA server specific.

I read up to the second “Q.Q” and stopped. Schadenfreude, feels good in mah belleh.

They just need to remove WvW. Make each server / map FFA and to hell with it.

This isn’t unique to GW2 – been around for a while and this is one reason why WoW introduced battle grounds and arenas. DaOC had similar issues with total server population then faction population. Then add in non oceanic servers and you now have the trifecta of wall clock Relic raids at 3 AM…

I don’t see the need to have Edge of the Mist and now WvW running similar colors. One of them has to go.

its actually nice to see the ppl on the forum speaking plain language and using real arguments instead of falling back on sentiment.

I firmly believe that all players in WvW can be happy players if all of us want to keep the same end-goal in mind, making the WvW better and more acceptable for all players!

Not just for a single limited group by itself, we have a bigger chance of getting real change and improvement if we set our differences aside and start looking where we can work together, the larger and more extensive the coherence and the better the common argument is the more likely Arena-net will listen.

If we give in to sentiment it will not work cause that is a division line amongst players, on top getting 100% either way (Desert vs Alpine and vice versa) will not solve anything cause you end up chasing other valuable players out of wvw, thats just short term thinking.

Not here to start a fuss:-)

Why don’t you think more down the lines of:

1) 3 different borderland maps each week

-a) they rotate so you don’t have the same evrywhere
-b) 4 weeks is 4 rotations a months, you would not have the same map on your homeborder each week?
-c) maps would be:

Point Per Tick mechanics:

- Alpine (basic mechanics best of old and new Hot)
- Desert (reworked as it is now)
- EBG (reworked to serve as borderland map with best of old and new Hot)
-EOTM map (get rid of EOTM we need real players on the maps that are loyal to servers and guild, reworked with best of old and new HOT)

Point Per kill mechanics:

- a Brand new center map with Point per kill system towards server, that also can be used for GvG league and a 3 way meta event, with lots of open places for fights under different conditions. If you are afraid of fighting under conditions well then you are bad at the game in real warfare you get to choose the battlefield as well but not the war-conditions or environment.

Now it might be much to think about, but in the long run this might be the best solution for all, its just an idea, but the more players support the middle road the more likely Arena-net will listen to you.

BTW nice going on the QQ i thought for a long time that the whining was one-directional on this forum lol.

you can’t balance 3 different map for the bl..

Cecilia.5179:

They are letting us decide if we like the Desert bl now before they commit to replacing it with Alpine bl. I think this way more people will realize that there is actually a poll and participate in it.

WHERE ARE THESE POLLS?!?!??!

There was a dev post about having taken a poll on whether to change back to alpine and it saying yes so we are gonna go back and change to it…and it linked to a generic whiny posting about why ‘someone’ wanted the alpine maps back. There was no polling or asking of opinion in this post…it was just something posting “I WANT THIS TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE AND I WANT MY OPINION TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE AND THIS IS A CONSTRUCTIVE THREAD ONLY”. Just a generic “I want alpine back” post we’ve seen a million of in the forums, but now with the word “constructive” thrown all over the place. And the replies to this thread were just generic ones like all the other threads before it. And apparently this constituted a vote or poll of some kind and yet nothing of the sort happened in that thread. There were other threads in the past with actual links to polls (biased polls no doubt) but at least these presented some form of actual polling!

Since this thread might constituted a ‘poll’ in the future given the precedent…let me say that I like the DBL. The changes to the waypoints is HUGE and was a long time coming. They opened the map up more which I kinda like. They made it very very difficult to die to lava or falling (I still randomly slid 5 meters across a platform I jumped onto… down a cliff) and pve things in general now which I DON’t like (it’s alot of unnecessary handholding at the expense of gameplay and tactics). Overalll though the waypoint changes make everything insanely better on these maps. Having 3 of them all the time is too much imo…..having 3 alpine all the time was also too much though. DBL is a very good map and they finally made it playable with the waypoint changes….I hope everyone gives it a proper chance now it is insanely fun when people do play on it.

Fun fact: using too many words with capital letters in sequence will get your post deleted and infracted even if you just qoute such a post.

I recommend using the bold or italic text function. It look better anyway.

/Your neigborhood forum pedant with currently bleeding eyes

Best thing that ever happened is that they bring back old maps! yay

@Dawdler :

Not true, you will be infracted if someone doesn’t like and reports you – for no reason. That’s how this forum works – infractions are more or less completely random.

ETA: And then we’ll have the DBL situation again: only randoms write on this forum so anet doesn’t know what people want and we get a map everybody hates – GG.

Anyway, halfway OT, I can’t read the whole OP too many QQs in it – the opening of the WPs and the stairs instead of jumppads made the DBL a lot better in my opinion – but in the end; I won’t be around to say so, cause infractions, you know ;)

ETA²: Do not quote this post – under no circumstances! ;)

Have you even tried the new redone DBL map? It is so much better.

JEEZ – stop whining already. I think we need to give the redone maps a chance.

I hated the ABL maps because they were boring and no thought into layout. They were designed by a 2 yr old. two keeps so close too gari and spawn with the spawn trebs and other siege placed there. So no thanks for the ABL’s until they fix that.

@ Sich

Why are you so sure it cannot be done, why don’t we ask the devs?

At least its worth a try and it will suit all of us not individual groups that claim they know the game better?

Btw i reaffirm do not add reward tracks to EOTM and remove EOTM permanently.

You will have enough players coming back to play in the borderlands with the new reward-system, not just the Alpine romantics,

Maybe even the limits on the maps would have to be raised.

sparc.3649:

Okay so this thread is most likely NOT what you’re thinking it’s going to be. No it’s not me talking about whether they’re here already after today’s update, quite the opposite actually…

So I hear they’re bringing back the old A-BL’s? Well then, now it’s MY turn to Q.Q

I can’t believe they (anet) would cave in to all the WHINY babies. So, now it’s my time to be the whiny baby! Like I said, I can’t believe they’re going to cave in to you Q.Qers!

I don’t even know (nor do I care) if they actually plan to scrap the DBL’s all together or not (I doubt it, they worked very hard on them) – but the mere fact that they’re going to “cave in” to all the Q.Q – is a HUGE sign of weakness first off. Second off, I do know (luckily) I am NOT literally the ONLY person with this viewpoint, that, once they bring back your maps (due to all the Q.Q) you guys will be happy for a couple more months (somehow) and then people are still going to quit anyway. Especially after having nice new shiny’s (DBLs) people will play back on the old maps for, I personally give it 3 months (1Q), until the WvW just KEEPS going DOWNWARD. I give it three months until people are like “kitten these boring old dried up stale plain Jane looking maps (what were we thinkin LOL)”.

So here’s my Q.Q about that: Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q Q.Q – ok enough, I’m done. I’ll keep Q.Qing in private now. I can’t believe the ABL’s are coming back, I can’t believe anet is making yet ANOTHER move that is just going to be the final NAILS in the coffin of WvW! I will now likely be leaving the game. I don’t wanna play a game made by a spineless company (if I was in charge I’d have told you all to suck it up). Well I’m taking my advice, I’m gonna suck it up, IN A NEW GAME. One that isn’t ran by a bunch of spineless employees who will cave in at the whim of some twelve year olds! Not to mention I don’t really desire to play with all you WHINERS who actually want those boring old dried up stale maps back either anyways. I hope you all have fun with your old maps, anet SHOULD have put them where they really belong after the release of DBL’s – IN THE CIRCULAR FILE!

But enough about that, first you Q.Q, now I Q.Q – awesome, a huge ******* Q.Q fest goin’ on over here! It was fun but I’m going to have to point out the obvious for anyone who doesn’t even realize it (even anet mayhaps?)…

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The WHY. WHY is WvW “broke”. Some of you may still think this is subjective, let me be the first to tell you, it is not. Some of you may think it’s things like “OMGZ new BL’s suck” – let me tell you, IT’S NOT. THIS is why WvW is “broke”. There’s actually not a SINGLE reason, it’s all compounded – but adds up to the how/what/when/where/why WvW is on the degrade (and will continue to be – UNLESS this/these issue(s) are DIRECTLY addressed). Sadly I am not going to give a TL;DR version – so you’re just going to have to read this (what I believe is about to be a) wall of text! Here goes:

It does actually all begin with server population imbalance AKA “server stacking”. Since this has essentially been an issue (or potential one) since launch, it is one of if not THE biggest problems/reasons for the death of WvW. I wont even get into the speculation of the WHY people do it, nonetheless, PEOPLE DO IT. So, the top tier servers, due to server stacking, had what? REALLY LONG QUEUE TIMES. So, rather than fix the issue at hand (anet cough) by dealing with server population balance, they slap a band-aid on it. That bandaid was called EOTM. Now if you have a really long queue but you want to WvW, you can go to this place, EoTM, that will be LIKE WvW. Notice this surely does NOT fix “server stacking” one bit, because now rather than letting them suffer with long queues (mayhaps making them want to transfer to a lower tier), they have “EoTM” – GG anet, GG! This is one of the reasons I still insist that they SHOULD just completely REMOVE “EoTM”! After all, any of us “real WvWers” know that EoTM IS NOT WvW! What is EoTM? It is a “WvW-LIKE” Mega Server! Which brings us onto the other major player in what has/is ruined/ruining WvW. Mega-servers! Don’t get me wrong, I think they were/are a GREAT idea, for PvE – NOT WvW (or “EoTM”). Prior to mega-server, recruiting for WvW was VERY straight forward, and actually pretty easy to do, at least for me. I was even usually pretty good at convincing people to come just to “try it” even if they didn’t really want to. Funny, of course those are usually the people that wound up liking it the most LOL! Anyway, Mega-servers, have/are TRASHING WvW. How the heck am I supposed to recruit, and even more so, possibly bring NEW BLOOD to WvW when PvE is a HUGE cluster**** of ALL “servers”. Sure, you “can” – but NOT EFFECTIVELY. Reflecting upon it, Mega-servers is EXACTLY when my recruiting dropped probably by about 75%! I don’t care what other people THINK about that, or what other methods people may have/use – IN GAME recruiting is simply put, the BEST way of recruiting. I’ve tried external methods, including (this very) forum(s), etc! And while there may be a good number of people that check out this and other (“fan”) forums/websites; they STILL pale in comparison to the number of people who JUST PLAY THE GAME. So NO, I should NOT have to rely on external recruitment. Apparently I either suck at it, or it’s really just about as ineffective as I’ve just described anyways with the fact that “most people JUST PLAY THE GAME”! So here we have it, “server stacking” has always been an (THE?) issue. So rather than DIRECTLY address it, ANet gives us – EOTM. So now people that are already in WVW (w/ really long queues) just stay stacked, or re-stack, or whatever. And PvE receives “Mega-servers” too, so now we can’t really effectively bring in NEW BLOOD; at least NOTHING compared to before these “mega servers”!

So, is getting rid of “mega server” the best solution, no, at least not at this point. Like I said, Mega server was/is actually a good thing, for PvE… Which makes the whole “server” concept “outdated” for WvW then. Because now there’s an issue with balance surrounding ALL of GW2, because PART of the game doesn’t use “servers”, while WvW DOES. So the scale is tipped toward “mega server”- or, MOST of the game being ONE “huge” “server”. While WvW is still broken up into many many “servers”. Heck, the ONLY reason for “servers” now IS WvW – EVERYTHING else can be done, WITH your friends, REGARDLESS of what “server” you pick. So if “servers” aren’t the way of the land for PvE, they shouldn’t be for WvW either. While I can’t profess to hold the key (answer) to all or any of what actually does need to be done to “fix” WvW, I CAN say what I know it’s not. And it’s not leaving all these individual “servers” on a game that otherwise doesn’t have ANY other reason for those “servers”. Remember, we HAVE to have an effective way to recruit people to our “war” (WvW)! Not one, and this literally actually recently happened to me, where, you’re recruiting in PvE (of course, recruiting IN WvW is just as pointless, those people are ALREADY IN THE GAME MODE) and you get some guy/gal who is like “yea I’ll join your guild”, you get to talking about WvW and they’re not really into it but then you convince them to try it – CRAP, can’t (at least not with us) they’re on a different “server”!

So I also don’t think some of the very things I also hear they’re GOING to be doing, are really going to help EITHER! I heard they’re going to do some kind of “server merge” crap. That’s not going to do anything either; may make things “fun” for some people again, for a while – but it’s still IMHO ultimately just another BANDAID. That’s going to fall off eventually, and the wound will still eventually bleed out!

So, I know my ADD kind of took this thread all over, now to declare an official PURPOSE to this thread. Lets get some constructive ideas going (for anet >.>) as to, what they can do to, not just “fix wvw”, but specifically, fix wvw population (server stacking) and recruitment issues!

You’re very good at QQ’ing, I don’t think you should call your opposition “WHINY BABIES” because it’s hypocritical of you to do that and write this kind of post…

At any rate, I am glad the Alpine Borderlands are coming back and I commend Arenanet for listening to the majority of WvW players who asked for it to come back and replace the Desert Borderlands.

If you could summarize this in 1-2 sentences… that would grrreatt.

TL;DR : QQ about QQ. Classic. Maybe you want to format it a bit different cause this hurted my eyes.

@MomentOfWeakness

A couple of remarks:-)

1) To be honest after all the whining 186 players did on this forum to get Alpine back on a total WvW-population of how many thousands of players?

(where is the poll?)

2) Alpine borderlands will be brought back for the time Arena-net is trying to sort out technology for actual map-rotation with multiple maps.

Map rotation will come!

3) The Alpine maps will be back with the new mechanics and reward-system, wow. the will not roll back two years, they will not remove the specs, the map will be adapted? What did you win nothing, you guys were just able to act like mules instead of looking for a real solution for the WvW problems.

- revamped Desert – all players happy
-reward tracks – all players happy
-specific wvw armor weapons – all players happy
-reworked reward system – all players happy
- participation as part of wvw experience chain a stroke of genious on the part of Arena-net thank you so much – all players happy

You guys were to busy making Arena-net roll back all, and didn’t wish to compromise on anything. the best way to go forward is to find a middle-road for all players that is acceptable, not enforcing one idea and pushing other players out of WvW cause they have a different opinion.

Do you really think that worked out? in my opinion the entire community wins in this patch but you guys loose big time sorry.

4) More and more players like the new mechanics on the reworked Desert borderlands, no new players on the forum wish to delete it or permanently remove it, they are actually asking when their opinion about the borderlands was asked.

- progress not regress, best of the old combined with best of the new and players like it.

5) none of you asked for the reward tracks, the players that were more open minded asked for it whilst the players demanding the alpine roll back verbally opposed it.

- none of you even thought about making the game appealing or rewarding to bring players back. your focus was just Alpine an old borderlands map that players had gotten so fed up with that they left before HOT cam out.

6) you still use the term ‘Actual WvW’ to make a distinction between WvW and edge of the mist.

- there is just one WvW and all should play it, remove EOTM get the players back on the borderlands.

7) Who are the players which opinion is valid and whose is not?

- some of you said other players opinions didn’t count because they were noobs, they didn’t know enough about WvW, they were below some players, that is discrimination.

And yes I’m very happy cause 75 % of the suggestions I and some other players made and we were not many maybe 10 players versus 186, were accepted and set into the game.

On top we know that Arena-net is working on the last 25% which is the map-rotation, so we are very happy.

I"m also very happy to see more and more players getting back to being involved into the game and its future when i look at the posts since the quarterly update it is amazing:-)

My message to those guys YOU ROCK!!! Keep it going :-)

Always look for the middle-road! it leads forward!

Angel Heart.6739:

- revamped Desert – all players happy

More and more players like the new mechanics on the reworked Desert borderlands, no new players on the forum wish to delete it or permanently remove it

No, this player with 100% assurance, wants the desert theme utterly and completely removed from WvW. As I’ve stated many times, a desert theme is not conducive to long term player retention. Even if they create map rotation, they’ll be participation drops every time the desert map is introduced. It’s simply a bad theme overall.

i think desert borderlands could stay as n eotm alternative, but for real wvw I’m sorry but i really tried to like it. its just too large, too pve based, too complex and to ai driven for me. when alpine was there, i couldnt wait to log in after work and go defend vs massive hordes tring to get us. i was always on the outnumbered servers and wvw used to have that sandbox feel to it. u as the player could decide and it was up to u to defend,upgrade,scout and place siege and all that. HOT and the desert bl just took it all away and changed to whole game mode. thats why so many people left. i mean comon airstrikes?!?! really? after skyhammer complains u actually thing laser events and airstrikes are a GOOD idea? after cc is alread an issue u make a vertical map?after pve events kept messing up wvw because anet brought the events into wvw anet made a map diven by pve…. seriously. i want all of hot gone in wvw and a fresh new approach! dersert bl could do well outside of wvw for a megaserver thing like eotm but its horrible for actual wvw..

DeWolfe.2174:

Angel Heart.6739:

- revamped Desert – all players happy

More and more players like the new mechanics on the reworked Desert borderlands, no new players on the forum wish to delete it or permanently remove it

No, this player with 100% assurance, wants the desert theme utterly and completely removed from WvW. As I’ve stated many times, a desert theme is not conducive to learn term player retention. Even if they create map rotation, they’ll be participation drops every time the desert map is introduced. It’s simply a bad theme overall.

I also think the desert BL is a terrible map – both in function and in presentation.

I’d be happy if it disappeared forever, but I’ll do what I do now – avoid it when it comes up in the rotation and let the five people who like that map have a field day.

Blockhead Magee.3092:

DeWolfe.2174:

Angel Heart.6739:

- revamped Desert – all players happy

More and more players like the new mechanics on the reworked Desert borderlands, no new players on the forum wish to delete it or permanently remove it

No, this player with 100% assurance, wants the desert theme utterly and completely removed from WvW. As I’ve stated many times, a desert theme is not conducive to learn term player retention. Even if they create map rotation, they’ll be participation drops every time the desert map is introduced. It’s simply a bad theme overall.

I also think the desert BL is a terrible map – both in function and in presentation.

I’d be happy if it disappeared forever, but I’ll do what I do now – avoid it when it comes up in the rotation and let the five people who like that map have a field day.

yup

Angel Heart.6739:

5) none of you asked for the reward tracks, the players that were more open minded asked for it whilst the players demanding the alpine roll back verbally opposed it.

- none of you even thought about making the game appealing or rewarding to bring players back. your focus was just Alpine an old borderlands map that players had gotten so fed up with that they left before HOT cam out.

Bullkitten. Look through my post history.

If Skyhammer was kept around for 3 years, the Deserted BL isn’t going away anytime soon. The devs are too stubborn and just won’t learn — at the cost of the WvW population.

It is kinda funny that you can tell who really reads my wall(s) of text and who doesn’t! Here I’ll try to do a “summary” for you all who are unwilling to read (and when’s the last time you read a BOOK :O they have MUCH more words than this thread!)…

Ok so I started out QQ’ing about ABL coming back. This was in part serious and in part not. What I meant by that is yes – I AM disappointed that they’re coming back, but at the same time I was putting on an illustration for all those who did nothing but QQ about DBL! So, call it trolling if you will :P My main point is, if you don’t like it WTF is the point in QQ on forums about it – just leave the fuggin game! So yes, I am a hypocrite / troll (get over it).

Furthermore, the proof is really in the pudding, because this thread is actually meant to be MUCH more serious than just some bickering about the different boderlands maps! So, for those who really don’t (know how to?) read, look in the first post (OP) under the three lines (like this)
———
———
———
There’s the topic that there’s no “trolling” in, no trying to get a “reaction” out of people from – not being a sarcastic ***hole, etc etc etc. Those are some of the VERY serious problems with the current state of WvW. As I pointed out, the REAL problem with the “state” of WvW actually has nothing to do with maps. Then I went on to explain one possible avenue of addressing / fixing this problem! And how if ANet continues to do nothing but put on band-aids, WvW WILL eventually BLEED OUT (die completely)… So, the “call” for the thread is actually for THAT discussion to take place. Not about maps! Here, I’ll ask again; if you worked @ANet or were otherwise in charge; what would YOU do to “FIX” the MAIN WvW problem(s) (of: population balance AKA “server stacking”, and recruitment issues?

THAT, is what this thread is actually about, going forward… Thank you!

too long, didn’t read. but i did read something that may invalidate all the QQing... i read that they are intending to rotate BLs every quarter. they have already said they were intending to do a rotation of some sort. so no, they didn’t cave as much as you are QQing they are.

i for one am happy with the changes made to DBL so far, and will happily play on either map.

sparc.3649:

Here, I’ll ask again; if you worked @ANet or were otherwise in charge; what would YOU do to “FIX” the MAIN WvW problem(s) (of: population balance AKA “server stacking”, and recruitment issues?

THAT, is what this thread is actually about, going forward… Thank you!

I’d crap myself over the drop of population. Afterwards, I’d try to figure out what I could do to increase my customer base, as any business should. The Desert map IS a huge issue. Luckily, it’s one that is easily controllable by the dev’s. The should have pushed the panic button and reverted before leaving from Christmas. So all those players who had time off could come back and possibly get back into the lifestyle of playing GW2 daily/weekly. Getting people back after 5 months isn’t easy.

Yea and this whole “merge” thing I logged in to see today – PURE CRAP

I did NOT ask to be merged with kittening T1, who the kitten’s genius idea was this?

I’m telling you, ANET, you NEED to design and implement a truly dynamic system that will adjust to people “coming and going”! I’m still thinking the best way to do this is align 3 different “guilds/factions/teams/whatever you wanna call em” and allowing every player to chose a different “campaign/mission/server/whatever you wanna call it” based upon “population”. Players CANNOT change what “faction” they chose (make a new toon or reroll!), and everyone can chose a new “campaign/mission/server” every week!

That way people who WANT to be in high pop, can chose one that has high pop. And people who want low pop, like myself, can chose low pop.

DEAR ANET,

PLEASE STOP WITH THE BANDAIDS! I hope you do realize that all these bandaids aren’t going to sustain WVW, and it will one day bleed out completely; unless you address the actual issue at hand directly. PLEASE stop with these INDIRECT “bandaid fixes”. Attack this head on!

Sheesh .

Meanwhile I’m going to go check out AvA >.>

sparc.3649:

Yea and this whole “merge” thing I logged in to see today – PURE CRAP

I did NOT ask to be merged with kittening T1, who the kitten’s genius idea was this?

I’m telling you, ANET, you NEED to design and implement a truly dynamic system that will adjust to people “coming and going”! I’m still thinking the best way to do this is align 3 different “guilds/factions/teams/whatever you wanna call em” and allowing every player to chose a different “campaign/mission/server/whatever you wanna call it” based upon “population”. Players CANNOT change what “faction” they chose (make a new toon or reroll!), and everyone can chose a new “campaign/mission/server” every week!

That way people who WANT to be in high pop, can chose one that has high pop. And people who want low pop, like myself, can chose low pop.

DEAR ANET,

PLEASE STOP WITH THE BANDAIDS! I hope you do realize that all these bandaids aren’t going to sustain WVW, and it will one day bleed out completely; unless you address the actual issue at hand directly. PLEASE stop with these INDIRECT “bandaid fixes”. Attack this head on!

Sheesh .

Yeah I know right? Sheesh… I don’t understand why anet isn’t catering to the whim of a casual player that just noticed several days later that his server was merged…. Sheesh.

Gee, wonder why I don’t notice anything any more; oh maybe because I don’t play any more. Oh wait, why don’t I play any more? Oh yea, MAYBE cuz they keep putting kittening bandaids on their game instead of actually addressing it’s CORE issues.

Have fun with your “NEW SHINY REVITALIZED WvW” – while it lasts, for the next couple weeks/months whatever. Simply put the whole “merge” thing was even more stupid than just leaving things the way they were. Now people, LIKE YOU, have this misconception things will get fixed (yea right).

This current model WILL NOT SUSTAIN ITSELF. People will come and go, ALWAYS. So what happens when a mass of people leave again; and maybe MORE this next time around? They just gonna do MORE merges? What’s the plan for sustainability? Merge from 8 to 4 to 2 tiers?

No, They NEED to develop and implement a truly DYNAMIC system that will be able so sustain itself as the population changes (which it’s going to do no matter what)…

THEN and ONLY then will the “population issue” or “server stacking” be addressed.

Until then, have fun playing with your box of bandaids. I’m leveling a toon in ESO right now so I can check out AvA !!! I hear it’s MUCH better than WvW, and what WvW COULD have been.

sparc.3649:

Gee, wonder why I don’t notice anything any more; oh maybe because I don’t play any more. Oh wait, why don’t I play any more? Oh yea, MAYBE cuz they keep putting kittening bandaids on their game instead of actually addressing it’s CORE issues.

Have fun with your “NEW SHINY REVITALIZED WvW” – while it lasts, for the next couple weeks/months whatever. Simply put the whole “merge” thing was even more stupid than just leaving things the way they were. Now people, LIKE YOU, have this misconception things will get fixed (yea right).

This current model WILL NOT SUSTAIN ITSELF. People will come and go, ALWAYS. So what happens when a mass of people leave again; and maybe MORE this next time around? They just gonna do MORE merges? What’s the plan for sustainability? Merge from 8 to 4 to 2 tiers?

No, They NEED to develop and implement a truly DYNAMIC system that will be able so sustain itself as the population changes (which it’s going to do no matter what)…

THEN and ONLY then will the “population issue” or “server stacking” be addressed.

Until then, have fun playing with your box of bandaids. I’m leveling a toon in ESO right now so I can check out AvA !!! I hear it’s MUCH better than WvW, and what WvW COULD have been.

Ah wait if its about the state of the game and players not playing it you will always end up being the qq’ing one Sparc.

The problem is that the guys that reacted do not wish to see the middle-road, they just want Alpine to come back for their own selfish reasons and its got nothing to do with the desert borderlands as such but with their way of plaqying WvW, they are unable to adapt to the new WvW, so they need to find excuses to destroy WvW completely thinking that will solve WvW from dissapearing.

Granted Alpine will come back and i don’t have anything against it but their way of thinking and argueing including whining is gonna destroy WvW utterly, sadely they are to blind to see it.

They are only chasing other WvW players away.
Because they think their opinion is the only one which mathers.

Thats the truth don’t even have to troll them for it, just read their posts no compromise anywhere.

Anet have say since the begining that the 2 map will rotate. The problem is that we don’t have that rotation month after HoT !
And sorry but WvW is about large fight / tactic / startegy / roaming / …
Before the last change in DBL the structures had no value at all except PPT ! Then there is no tactic or strategy involved with the structures !
Now that we have the WP back in the keep it’s better for the keep, but tower continu to have no value (except PPT).

Add the fact that the keep / tower are too big, then hard to scout or full siege.
Add the non / hard counterable ennemy cata spot (proxy cata, cata on the stairs at UC) that make defense close to impossible if you can’t outnumber the ennemy..

DBL have a lot of issue, the map itself (layout, size, structure position) and mechanics that we will see in ABL (auto upgrade, forced path for the upgrade, no need for supply for the upgrade, guild upgrade). Good to remove the cost to upgrade structures, but no need then to add guild upgrade who are far more expensive that what we where used for the structures upgrade before !

Change was needed, because ABL have a lot of other issue and we have play it for years. But DBL was not a good map for WvW and the horrible change they made with HoT was added to the big failure of the map… You can add class balance and elite balance to the mess…

And about map spawning like EOTM you can’t do that in WvW ! Because people need to be involved in the map (scout / upgrades / …). If map can be closed at any time then people will not care at all about that part of the game, and will only remain the KT… If they build some EOTM system then they need to make all structures T3 immediatly..