Guild Wars 2

Trebbing Towers from Keeps.(this is also an issue in EB).
-Keeps should not be able to treb Towers.. However, Towers should be able to treb Keeps.
-Make adjustments to HILLS keep so that the far catwalk on the outter wall is cut short, So a treb can’t be placed on the safe edge of the keeps outter wall
-Adjust the land height of NEW and NWT so that the trebs from garrison can’t reach it’s walls.

50% of the Map is wasted space.
-The top left and top right corners of the map, should have something more to them. Perhaps put in a Tower in each of those corners. And these towers are protected by the NPCs that spawn in that area. Top right tower would have Centaur NPCs protecting it. Top Left would have NPC skrit protecting it.

NPCs from these towers would spawn and and press towards East and West Supply camps and attempt to capture them.(like EB)

When this Skrit tower is captured it will send NPCs to engage the NORTH camp and the NWCamp. When the centuar tower is captured it will send NPCs to engage the North camp and the NECamp. [VIEW ATTACHED FILE]

North Camp(Area):
-The north camp in the Bls have huge protected walls that provide no protection. -Please, make the huge walls that outline this north part of the map, with Siege doors, and have the walls destructible.
-Place a Tower to the North North of this area, and bring back RELICS. (put the relic in this tower).

Outdated look:
-The alpine maps look dated, and lack lush feel and life.

RELICS:
-Bring relics back. Have relics tied to the death of the NPCs keep lord instead of on the alter of power. Allow Relics to be placed in any objective (keeps, towers, supply camps).

Relic Benefits:
-Double the Points earn from that objective
-Reduce the dolyak upgrade requirement by 50% on the objective that the Relic was placed on,.
-for each relic your realm controls gain 25% coin/xp/magic find.

testpig.5018:

Trebbing Towers from Keeps.(this is also an issue in EB).
-Keeps should not be able to treb Towers.. However, Towers should be able to treb Keeps.

Why do you think that? Like really, I don’t get that logic at all.

testpig.5018:

50% of the Map is wasted space.
-The top left and top right corners of the map, should have something more to them. Perhaps put in a Tower in each of those corners. And these towers are protected by the NPCs that spawn in that area. Top right tower would have Centaur NPCs protecting it. Top Left would have NPC skrit protecting it.

I don’t think that is 50%, more like maybe 20% if that. Those areas are pretty wasted and I think they could put something there, not sure what though. Maybe a couple more camps? Idk.

testpig.5018:

NPCs from these towers would spawn and and press towards East and West Supply camps and attempt to capture them.(like EB)

Uhh do you mean like the dredge and hylics? If so, please god no. We really don’t need any more PvE aspects in WvW.

testpig.5018:

North Camp(Area):
-The north camp in the Bls have huge protected walls that provide no protection. -Please, make the huge walls that outline this north part of the map, with Siege doors, and have the walls destructible.

Those big walls make for nice choke points. I usually get bigger groups to try to chase my smaller group out of those tiny doors then blow them up when they try to follow us through. I think its good to keep the way it is because it promotes strategic fighting game play personally.

testpig.5018:

-Place a Tower to the North North of this area, and bring back RELICS. (put the relic in this tower).

Please no.

testpig.5018:

Outdated look:
-The alpine maps look dated, and lack lush feel and life.

Maybe its because the map is 3 years old? It is still far more practical than DBL was. The textures may not be the most up to date, but why do you care so much about the looks anyway? Its practical, its functional, it looks fine, it just isn’t DIFFERENT lol.

testpig.5018:

RELICS:
-Bring relics back. Have relics tied to the death of the NPCs keep lord instead of on the alter of power. Allow Relics to be placed in any objective (keeps, towers, supply camps).

Relic Benefits:
-Double the Points earn from that objective
-Reduce the dolyak upgrade requirement by 50% on the objective that the Relic was placed on,.
-for each relic your realm controls gain 25% coin/xp/magic find.

Sounds like more PvE in WvW. Really not necessary man. I don’t get why anyone wants more PvE in WvW.. If you want your PvE, go to PvE land, leave it out of WvW.

Relics, were removed for a very good reason, and that “fixed” a serious issue.

IF people want Alpine BL to improve, wich it has its room for that, we should ask for the skrit and centaurs spots be some sorta tower and castle. move the north camp to belong on the spawn point, and while the castle on centaur spot is onquestd will flow minor supply to spawn and more supply for north camp.

I think this would help outmaned servers mostly, if they cap that, it would help their supply to fight back the blob, on re-capping.

@Josh XT.6053, treb wars is awfull due the sum of several game issues, im not against it (use defensive captured towers for starting a atack was a used strategy irl…)but most players dont like it because they dont see the game issues on the big picture, if those issues were fixed it would be much better gameplay.

@ testpig.5018: " Outdated look: -The alpine maps look dated, and lack lush feel and life. "

That is the entire GW2 that already is outdated… they betted on adding extreme gimmicks to atrack players cause was easy to win using those gimmicks, while they didnt improved the game on good features/tools.
They did all wrong.

It’s not PvE in WvW.. it’s WvW with incentive. Some of the best large scale wars happen during the time of relics. Perhaps you were not playing at the time.. If a keep held a relic, your realm would focus on defending it more. Having to give up other parts of your land, in order to pull back and defend your relic keep. It was the golden age of WvW.

There is nothing wrong with NPCs in WvW.

Being that a keep is already a super strong structure, it should not have the ablity to easily snipe down towers from it’s very protected safe spot. Towers are different as it’s only 1 layer of defense, and you can easily counter cata/ballie a treb that is set up in a tower.

The game should not be set up so that the strong just get stronger. keep things a challenge.\

relic were removed because floating hackers were destroying the Alters of power and reseting the relics. The current Ruins provide the same benefit that the old relics provided. Instead of solving the issue with the hackers, they just removed what the hackers were after. That doesn’t solve the problem.

testpig.5018:

It’s not PvE in WvW.. it’s WvW with incentive. Some of the best large scale wars happen during the time of relics. Perhaps you were not playing at the time.. If a keep held a relic, your realm would focus on defending it more. Having to give up other parts of your land, in order to pull back and defend your relic keep. It was the golden age of WvW.

You mean when the game came out, there were a lot of good fights? Wonder if maybe that was because the game was still fresh and new, and not because the relics were good? Relics were an awful thing and they needed removed lol.

testpig.5018:

There is nothing wrong with NPCs in WvW.

Yes there really is, they’re not necessary. PvE should not be taking objectives – it isn’t necessary at all.

testpig.5018:

Being that a keep is already a super strong structure, it should not have the ablity to easily snipe down towers from it’s very protected safe spot. Towers are different as it’s only 1 layer of defense, and you can easily counter cata/ballie a treb that is set up in a tower.

I get it, but Trebs in general are pretty annoying. Historically, the treb is being used as it was designed to be used.

testpig.5018:

The game should not be set up so that the strong just get stronger. keep things a challenge.\

And the relics would change this??? lol.

testpig.5018:

relic were removed because floating hackers were destroying the Alters of power and reseting the relics. The current Ruins provide the same benefit that the old relics provided. Instead of solving the issue with the hackers, they just removed what the hackers were after. That doesn’t solve the problem.

Ruins are a better system, sure its also power creep because a strong server can just take people to each map and capture the ruins, but this is a GREAT place for roamers. I love fighting in the ruins personally – it has brought me more good fights than just about anywhere else in the game besides maybe north camp.

Perhaps you have not played Warhammer Online.. They took all the NPCS out of the WvW zones in that game. You know what the end result was of taking a keep?/supply camp?

You walked over to it.. and stood in the red ring. And captured it. No fight. At all.

you know how you captured a keep in Warhammer online with no NPCs? you knocked down a door with a ram, no npcs spawned to bother you. you took this big objective simply by walking into the “lord room” and stand near the flag.. as the keep gets captured. Again.. no fight.

NPCs allow for things to be earn, to always have a fight, even when player population is not present.

If you look at my relic bonus, they don’t not allow player stat increase

I didn’t say remove the guards in the camps. I’m saying DON’T ADD MORE PVE.

Being able to treb the keep from towers makes the towers much more strategic.

It allows a smaller group to aggressively pressure a keep as the bigger group has to possibly attack a fortified location. In addition the reinforcements can arrive and also use the tower as a rallying point and possibly more supplies.

Of course, it also makes sense that the people in the keep should be able to fire back too because having no counterplay is pretty lame.

testpig.5018:

50% of the Map is wasted space.

If Alpine has 50% wasted space and we know that Desert had at least twice as much wasted space, it means that Desert had 100% wasted space.

It makes sense.

Dawdler.8521:

testpig.5018:

50% of the Map is wasted space.

If Alpine has 50% wasted space and we know that Desert had at least twice as much wasted space, it means that Desert had 100% wasted space.

It makes sense.

+1, DBL was 100% wasted space for sure.

testpig.5018:

Trebbing Towers from Keeps.(this is also an issue in EB).
-Keeps should not be able to treb Towers.. However, Towers should be able to treb Keeps.

50% of the Map is wasted space.
-The top left and top right corners of the map, should have something more to them. Perhaps put in a Tower in each of those corners. And these towers are protected by the NPCs that spawn in that area. Top right tower would have Centaur NPCs protecting it. Top Left would have NPC skrit protecting it.

NPCs from these towers would spawn and and press towards East and West Supply camps and attempt to capture them.(like EB)

North Camp(Area):
-The north camp in the Bls have huge protected walls that provide no protection. -Please, make the huge walls that outline this north part of the map, with Siege doors, and have the walls destructible.
-Place a Tower to the North North of this area, and bring back RELICS. (put the relic in this tower).

Outdated look:
-The alpine maps look dated, and lack lush feel and life.

RELICS:
-Bring relics back. Have relics tied to the death of the NPCs keep lord instead of on the alter of power. Allow Relics to be placed in any objective (keeps, towers, supply camps).

Relic Benefits:
-Double the Points earn from that objective
-Reduce the dolyak upgrade requirement by 50% on the objective that the Relic was placed on,.
-for each relic your realm controls gain 25% coin/xp/magic find.

Reading this, and listening to my guild read this. I can’t really come to much many more conclusions other than you don’t really represent the majority of WvW players. I would also like to know if you know what PvE truly means.

1. Making trebs work from one direction but not from another direction is entirely asinine. Not only would that be a programming nightmare, to what avail? What is the purpose of having a keep (mind you Citadel is the only “keep” that can’t be taken) except for strategic advantage. What on earth were you thinking when you came up with this point to lead your argument against the Alpine BLs? There is absolutely no reason for this to be this way. Keeps, cappable keeps, have strategic advantages. Citadel is an exception, however there really isn’t much that can be done from Citadel that can’t be reached from below with careful execution of AoE and range skills.

2. More than 50% is wasted in DBL. What is the purpose of the Oasis area other than as a grave reminder of more failed PvE implementation into WvW. It was a disaster both logitically and aesthetically. I would even venture to say that MORE of ABL is utilized than is utilized in DBL. The entire center is a ruin cappable area, which before the original Alpine update I would have agreed with you, however on Alpine you do have access to some PvE which you do seem to hold really dear to your heart.

Currently the areas that you deem empty, such as to the left and right of North Camp are often the scenes of pretty awesome battles where people utilize the landscape to maneuver around to get strategic advantages over other groups. This area has historically had a lot of action in the fight scene. There is no reason to change them. NPCs = PvE= Not WvW. There is no reason to have Centaurs or Skritt protecting towers in this area. The DBL attempted to have some Lore related reasons to having different races protect different towers and keeps, which was a neat idea but a fairly poorly executed one. What reason would Centaurs or Skritt have for protecting any keep? As far as special heirarchy go, both are fairly low on the food chain. More concerning and problematic for this view is that your proposal puts them on an equal level which is simply not true. Although both are far inferior in the way of intellectual development, the Centaur are developed in warfare and the Skritt are glorified Raccoons.

3. Adding walls to North Camp, and Doors. This is strategically unfair. The North Camp is the closest supply line for the Citadel (which you’ve already spoken out against above for being unfair Strategically). It is heavily contradictory to propose that you would not only like Citadel to keep the North Camp, but also have a defendable, walled in supply camp solely for them. The strategic advantage that would impose on the rest of the map, outside of the location advantage of Citadel, would be completely unbalanced. North camp is relatively easy to keep on any manned BL.

4. Relics, are you serious? This is more PvE in WvW, not to mention the reasons they were removed to begin with. I think someone needs to take a trip to the archived areas of the forum where you can refresh yourself on why this is a terrible idea. In addition you want to add a tower that could potentially be a siege fest over a relic system that would undoubetly give yet another strategic advantage. Your points are riddled with contradiction and I find that concerning. Tying relics in with even more PvE (pve-ception?) places the strategic advantage of relics in the hands of NPCs. This would have been a perfect opportunity for you to discuss the revitalization of the roamer and the small man havoc groups that the DBL had all but killed, but you chose yet again to go a PVE angle.

Outdated Look. “The alpine maps look dated, and lack lush feel and life.” So you’re trying to tell me a mountainous wooded region with wildlife, plants, running water, and 2 styles of terrain “lack lush feel and life.”? Please explain how a barren desert with dust storms, rocks and one dead center area of plantlife is lush and alive.

Generally your suggestions concern me because not enough people are posting about how fabulous it is that Alpine is back. If you go into the Beta thread for DBL you will see thousands of posts addressing the issues in DBL that they ignored and caused the uprising against DBL. I feel your posts and opinions are lacking in the factual and research areas… if these are just your opinions then fine – but do not assume we all share them. Many WvWers that I encounter want to keep the PvE out of WvW, and many of these suggestions are backpeddling into PvE areas that we spoke out against.

I urge you to keep these ideas going, but perhaps on the GvG side of things. Think of GW1 and flag running and old styles and modes of Heroe’s Ascent that would implement into GvG (a structured one that utilized Guild halls) very well.

1: Example: Bay, and SWT… SWT can treb Bay, but Bay can’t Treb SWT. Proper. This placement forces the players that own the keep to come out and fight, and engage the tower to destory the treb.
Example2: Hills trebbing SET, broken. Requires not planning, or defending of the treb on hills to simply take the SET.

get it?

2: i guess you didn’t do any WvW in the new BLs.. i and my guild did. I’m very much a supporter for the new maps, and a new way to play. learning the choke points, to lead players to their death. It appears you were very much bound to the EB zerg community. The real small scaled fights.. happened in the DBs.

3: unfair? for whom? the home server should have an advantage on their map in regards to supply at least. Allowing the walls to be knocked down, simply give more options for more fights. Same as the Relic system promotes more player vrs player engagement.

4: nothing about the relics promote PvE… it’s all about incentive to engage on WvW. I guess you never played DAOC or Warhammer online, or even GW2 during the relic days. Capturing a a heavly defended keep from the enemy realm, and transporting the relic under enemy fire back to your corner keep.

testpig.5018:

1: Example: Bay, and SWT… SWT can treb Bay, but Bay can’t Treb SWT. Proper. This placement forces the players that own the keep to come out and fight, and engage the tower to destory the treb.

Well its been 7 months since I played Alpine, so my memory might be rusty, but I thought there was a spot in Bay that could hit the cata wall at SWT with a treb. I think it was an unconventional place where it could easily be hit by ranged attackers, but I am pretty sure there was a place to do it.

testpig.5018:

Example2: Hills trebbing SET, broken. Requires not planning, or defending of the treb on hills to simply take the SET.

Yeah that has always been an issue since there is no good way to defend against it from the tower itself. I generally would run up to the hills treb spot and build an AC and take out the treb.

As to the rest of your post, I’m just not going to bother replying. You obviously enjoy the PvE aspects of WvW more than the intended game play.

The map is not outdated… It’s exactly what we need, open fields with open field fights, no map gimmicks to get in the way and no mazes to navigate to get to places.

Either way, it says a lot that before map switch the EB q was 70+ with empty borderlands but now the borderlands are qued while EB is mostly empty….

I guess I don’t understand why there is so much fuss about what a map looks like. Strip all the art assets off Alpine to make it a wire-frame map, and I would STILL prefer it over DBL. Ok, perhaps that’s a slight exaggeration, but not much of one.

Alpine functions better than DBL. There’s no PvLabrynths. Few PvCliffs. Fewer pirate-ship forcing choke points. No stealth dust bowls.

There may be areas where Alpine could be improved, but at least I don’t feel like I’m fighting the map when I’m in there.

Josh XT.6053:

testpig.5018:

1: Example: Bay, and SWT… SWT can treb Bay, but Bay can’t Treb SWT. Proper. This placement forces the players that own the keep to come out and fight, and engage the tower to destory the treb.

Well its been 7 months since I played Alpine, so my memory might be rusty, but I thought there was a spot in Bay that could hit the cata wall at SWT with a treb. I think it was an unconventional place where it could easily be hit by ranged attackers, but I am pretty sure there was a place to do it.

testpig.5018:

Example2: Hills trebbing SET, broken. Requires not planning, or defending of the treb on hills to simply take the SET.

Yeah that has always been an issue since there is no good way to defend against it from the tower itself. I generally would run up to the hills treb spot and build an AC and take out the treb.

As to the rest of your post, I’m just not going to bother replying. You obviously enjoy the PvE aspects of WvW more than the intended game play.

I myself hate most if not all of the pve mechanics in wvw, and the stat unbalancing ones like bloodlust.

However, the orb you had to transfer on foot was actually very fun and provided a lot of action, that is until fly/underground hackers ruined it.

Lowen.7109:

Alpine functions better than DBL. There’s no PvLabrynths. Few PvCliffs. Fewer pirate-ship forcing choke points. No stealth dust bowls.

There may be areas where Alpine could be improved, but at least I don’t feel like I’m fighting the map when I’m in there.

Exactly, thank you. I don’t want to be fighting the map which is the most fighting action I got on DBL.

sephiroth.4217:

The map is not outdated… It’s exactly what we need, open fields with open field fights, no map gimmicks to get in the way and no mazes to navigate to get to places.

Either way, it says a lot that before map switch the EB q was 70+ with empty borderlands but now the borderlands are qued while EB is mostly empty….

How dare you speak such truths here! Burn the heretic! (Well said)

Josh XT.6053:

testpig.5018:

1: Example: Bay, and SWT… SWT can treb Bay, but Bay can’t Treb SWT. Proper. This placement forces the players that own the keep to come out and fight, and engage the tower to destory the treb.

Well its been 7 months since I played Alpine, so my memory might be rusty, but I thought there was a spot in Bay that could hit the cata wall at SWT with a treb. I think it was an unconventional place where it could easily be hit by ranged attackers, but I am pretty sure there was a place to do it.

testpig.5018:

Example2: Hills trebbing SET, broken. Requires not planning, or defending of the treb on hills to simply take the SET.

Yeah that has always been an issue since there is no good way to defend against it from the tower itself. I generally would run up to the hills treb spot and build an AC and take out the treb.

As to the rest of your post, I’m just not going to bother replying. You obviously enjoy the PvE aspects of WvW more than the intended game play.

Funny, how people think that creating elements that promote player vs player engagement equals to PvE. foolish.

testpig.5018:

Funny, how people think that creating elements that promote player vs player engagement equals to PvE. foolish.

Not sure exactly what that is supposed to mean. I don’t really know that anyone really flips the dredge in EBG so that the PVE mobs will go take camps for them, the only reason I ever flip dredge is so that the stupid dredge turrets will not daze me anymore. More PvE garbage that didn’t need to be there lol..

A solo player flips the dredges to support them in taking the supply camp.

Extra NPCs in a supply camp in theory should prevent it from being easily flipped. and buy time for the controller realm to defend it from the attack.

Thus promoting PvP.

I guess some players rather have no NPCs at the camp. so any one standing there can take claim over it.. without a fight.

testpig.5018:

A solo player flips the dredges to support them in taking the supply camp.

Extra NPCs in a supply camp in theory should prevent it from being easily flipped. and buy time for the controller realm to defend it from the attack.

Thus promoting PvP.

I guess some players rather have no NPCs at the camp. so any one standing there can take claim over it.. without a fight.

Having guards in camps is fine – having excessive PvE stuff is pointless though. It doesn’t stop me from taking a camp with the pve there, its easy enough to kill – but the extra pve mobs dont need to be there.

testpig.5018:

Josh XT.6053:

testpig.5018:

1: Example: Bay, and SWT… SWT can treb Bay, but Bay can’t Treb SWT. Proper. This placement forces the players that own the keep to come out and fight, and engage the tower to destory the treb.

Well its been 7 months since I played Alpine, so my memory might be rusty, but I thought there was a spot in Bay that could hit the cata wall at SWT with a treb. I think it was an unconventional place where it could easily be hit by ranged attackers, but I am pretty sure there was a place to do it.

testpig.5018:

Example2: Hills trebbing SET, broken. Requires not planning, or defending of the treb on hills to simply take the SET.

Yeah that has always been an issue since there is no good way to defend against it from the tower itself. I generally would run up to the hills treb spot and build an AC and take out the treb.

As to the rest of your post, I’m just not going to bother replying. You obviously enjoy the PvE aspects of WvW more than the intended game play.

Funny, how people think that creating elements that promote player vs player engagement equals to PvE. foolish.

How did any of the deserted bl’s crappy gimmicks promote PvP? I would try to fight people and they would leap off cliffs (and take no falling damage) to avoid a 1v1, or run into an area of the map that perma stealthed them, or constantly popped up walls in front of me preventing me from catching them.

Trebs should totally be able to hit towers. It’s strategy.

If they change ABL so you can’t treb a tower from a keep, then they should also change EBG so you can’t treb red keep from SM.

No one ever complains about that you say? Been broken for years some one should,. In fact, they should scale down EBG and move all keeps closer together so we can all just treb away at each other.

Couple of notes to this thread:

We really need an official definition of what is to be considered "PvE" and not in this game, it seems every other post disagrees about it. Example in this thread: NPC Guards ? PvE or WvW requirement ?

@ ArchonWing.9480: To be fair, he did say "Keep shall not treb tower (but tower treb keep is ok)"

Regarding the map design of Alpine, the one thing that always annoyed me was the north. Just disliked how citadel splited the north camp so far away from the rest of the map. Would have loved to see a change there, to move Citadel up north, move the camp to between it and Garri, and made the Citadel WP right at the south edg with a walk path directly down to the camp/garri. Would also move it away from the stupid ***** trebbing the north towers from the citadel safe zone.

Just make entire spawn area + a area around it of 1200 range instantly disable siege or destroy any and all siege missiles etc.

keep in mind folks, this thread is not pointing to “lets go back to DBLs” no. it’s saying “Lets FIX alpine BLs”.

The fixes anet did to the core DBLs before they rotated them out were pretty good (minus killing the orb-laser event. lots of good fights happened during that event)

It is rather annoying that the closest camp to spawn is the one that’s easiest for an enemy to camp. Also, it always annoyed me that it’s the only one that supplies both northern towers in addition to garri.

Tower wise, sometimes its a good thing for defense to be able to hit garri from the towers, I just don’t know if the tradeoff is worth it with the new numbers.

What about Daily Monument?

Also, sort of in regards to spawn trebs/seige. Has anyone seen home defense razor, or did he get disabled too? I mean, not that I’ve tried it, but if old SR isn’t there anymore, the increase of questionable spawn seige might be part of the reason.

HazyDaisy.4107:

Also, sort of in regards to spawn trebs/seige. Has anyone seen home defense razor, or did he get disabled too? I mean, not that I’ve tried it, but if old SR isn’t there anymore, the increase of questionable spawn seige might be part of the reason.

The patch that brought in Alpine removed him (rightfully so imo).

testpig.5018:

Trebbing Towers from Keeps.(this is also an issue in EB).
-Keeps should not be able to treb Towers.. However, Towers should be able to treb Keeps.

It is not an “issue”.

The original wvw maps were intentionally designed that way, they’ve been that way since day one. Taking an objective gives you an advantage to continue attacking your enemy, it’s not just for “ppt”. Owning stonemist castle is one of the hardest keeps to hold since you can treb it from all the surrounding structures, but it also gives you an advantage in being able to treb all the structures near it from one place.

Not even going to bother with the rest of the post.

The only things that need to be done to fix the Alpine map are the garrison and north camp switching places, and the two norther towers slid north to within treb range of the new garrison location. Do that, call it a day.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see the quaggans back, but they’re not a need. The location swap is, and it’s the only real need the Alpine map has.

Anet, Thank you for the return of Alpine map. It is another option, I like options.

IMHO, If the energy expended on the forums was applied to actually playing WvW across the 4 tiers we would have a vibrant thriving mode on our hands.

testpig.5018:

4: nothing about the relics promote PvE… it’s all about incentive to engage on WvW. I guess you never played DAOC or Warhammer online, or even GW2 during the relic days. Capturing a a heavly defended keep from the enemy realm, and transporting the relic under enemy fire back to your corner keep.

I cant say how this works in GW2, but a Relic Keep was indeed the best defended treasure of a given server side and drew defenders from many other contents if the home relics were under attack. And Mythic did not make it more easy to get them over time, it was made harder and harder with the addition of watch towers you had to take to get a shot at the main castle.
Too bad that they could not get over themselves to make buff bots obsolete much earlier and open the game mode for a more casual audience. DAOC was very much superior regarding wvw to any game I ever played, despite GW2 being the best wvw around today. There were leaderboards for both players and guilds to show them that guilds are valued and mean a kind of fame, guild message when your tower was attacked etc etc…
It gave a feeling of real importance to wvw, something that is sadly mostly missing in GW2. If a big guild stops playing today, nobody will know its name in six months.

Josh XT.6053:

testpig.5018:

Trebbing Towers from Keeps.(this is also an issue in EB).
-Keeps should not be able to treb Towers.. However, Towers should be able to treb Keeps.

Why do you think that? Like really, I don’t get that logic at all.

I guess he believe tower should be a offensive position instead of a defensive position. I guess whoever build the tower thinking it should benefit the enemy should be fired from ministry of defense.

So this thread basically exists because the OP liked the DBL?

Alpine have outdated look? Many player have or had reduced the graphic quality for battles. Who looks after the graphic, if you should better concentrate on the fights you have? The alpine maps in gw2 were always my favourite maps in gw2, not only in wvw, in pve too, I just leave Timberline Falls here. Somewhere in the forum was a poll about the most liked map in gw2, this pve map was mentioned many times.

Lol, changing citadel…. Are you crazy ?
Citadel is like a city ! A real city ! Not only a small outpost on a weird map….

And nc is at north, it’s a good thing ! Why would you bring that camp further to the ennemy ?

ABL is NOT DBL ! Stop asking to destroy that map to be like that bs who is DBL.

Menaki.6329:

Alpine have outdated look? Many player have or had reduced the graphic quality for battles. Who looks after the graphic, if you should better concentrate on the fights SIEGES you have? The alpine maps in gw2 were always my favourite maps in gw2, not only in wvw, in pve too, I just leave Timberline Falls here. Somewhere in the forum was a poll about the most liked map in gw2, this pve map was mentioned many times.

FIFY

testpig.5018:

50% of the Map is wasted space.
-The top left and top right corners of the map, should have something more to them. Perhaps put in a Tower in each of those corners. And these towers are protected by the NPCs that spawn in that area. Top right tower would have Centaur NPCs protecting it. Top Left would have NPC skrit protecting it.

This is an issue with the Desert maps as well, have you been to the top left and top right of that map?

top left and top right had towers. And had plenty of fights of the enemy defending those locations from cata/treb spots.

testpig.5018:

top left and top right had towers. And had plenty of fights of the enemy defending those locations from cata/treb spots.

Those towers are still in the Alpine maps, they’re just slightly lower and there are almost always fights for those in the EU.

You mention wasted space, which there is plenty of behind each of the two top towers on the Desert map, too. My point is that it’s not a problem exclusive to any map, there is and always will be wasted space.

HazyDaisy.4107:

It is rather annoying that the closest camp to spawn is the one that’s easiest for an enemy to camp. Also, it always annoyed me that it’s the only one that supplies both northern towers in addition to garri.

Tower wise, sometimes its a good thing for defense to be able to hit garri from the towers, I just don’t know if the tradeoff is worth it with the new numbers.

How is north camp the “easiest for an enemy to camp”?
It’s about as far from the enemy spawn points as it could possibly be and it’s right next to yours.
You even have a portal to run in and out of while fighting, and If they camp the portal you can have invulnerable players pew pewing from the ledge.

If you call in reinforcements you can completely cut off their escape routes since you can send groups out the side exits of citadel to block off the doorways leading into camp.
Literally everything about north camp gives a home field advantage.

Not if your home server is outnumbered 10:1, everything is taken and the server that’s out numbering you has most of their numbers and seige (including omegas) facing every direction of North camp. It’s happened more than once in the past.

I like North camp, but, because of its isolation from third servers spawn, and the fact that its north of spawn rather than south, its the lifeblood of reclaiming and it controls supply to TWO towers, when the bigger server controls it on the smaller servers BL, it is the easiest and most beneficial to camp simply because of where its located and what it does.

HazyDaisy.4107:

Not if your home server is outnumbered 10:1, everything is taken and the server that’s out numbering you has most of their numbers and seige (including omegas) facing every direction of North camp. It’s happened more than once in the past.

I like North camp, but, because of its isolation from third servers spawn, and the fact that its north of spawn rather than south, its the lifeblood of reclaiming and it controls supply to TWO towers, when the bigger server controls it on the smaller servers BL, it is the easiest and most beneficial to camp simply because of where its located and what it does.

….That makes no sense. It isn’t isolated from the third servers spawn any more than it’s isolated from the second servers spawn. And how would moving it south (closer to the enemies spawn) make it better for you if you’re “outnumbered 10:1”?

Isolated in the way that both south camps are not. Meaning, south camps are not as easy to camp because you could be zerged by 2 servers if you in the blue bl South camp next to greens spawn.

Either way, north camp is still (IMO) the easiest for the server with more people to camp, but thats just 1 issue I brought up. The major issues with this camp are, its supply feeds 2 towers that no other camp feeds, it also feeds Garri. When faced with a paper bl, people run from spawn NORTH to north camp, then go back south to other things, this up to go down issue always felt weird, now more so since DBL.

The supply mechanics and position of this camp are just strange to me personally.

love the nc… nothing more to say…

ABL seems worse than DBL was with population imbalance. DBL (after ANet made improvements) was an OK map for most purposes, though I’d have liked to see a purpose for the Oasis area.

The layout of ABL makes controlling another server’s Garrison extremely strong and new tactics and improvements have really only added to that.

Another thing to add is that some tactivators meant for the desert borderlands like the Watchtower is total BS and it kittens the scouts or smaller groups trying to take objectives.

Also the maps are too small, it’s super easy to get anywhere, more with the new powers and elite specializations, the maps are clearly not balanced or tested for all the new options and toys we have.