Guild Wars 2

The laser event has been described by various players as one of the less fun and more PvE aspects of WvW that should be removed. With the constructive feedback ideal in mind I have some thoughts/suggestions on an alternative should the event be removed during the WvW rework that is allegedly underway.

To me, the real question is not should the event be completely removed, but rather what should replace the mechanic. At this time the center of the map provides an open area that does not necessarily facilitate/encourage player vs player combat for more than the event time period (and even then arguably less so because it often becomes a race to kill NPCs rather than competitive killing of other players). The center of a map in EB is aimed at promoting competitive king of the hill gameplay (hold SMC and have better ability to attack the entire map). The center in the Desert Borderlands also looks to “attack the whole map” but it is a primarily PvE event (a laser that attacks) instead of relying on players to attack as with SMC (there is no NPC run treb. in SMC for example).

I propose altering the “flow” of the overall Desert map not just according to who controls particular towers and keeps, but in part based on control over a “team node.” The node would be one of three stations in the center area, one for each team near their entry point (or near the Hardened Ramports for the “home” team). Each device would have three levels of control, each activating a new level of effects. I propose L1—opening up barricade portals for your team; L2—speeding up travel in the center of the map; L3—activating special portals to allow your team to bypass the center of the map.

Each level of control is unlocked by picking up power cores initially dropped on the ground (no NPC you need to kill). Each level of control also unlocks some additional defenses for the team node. L1 should be comparable to a fully upgraded camp, L2 should be like a tower without walls, L3 should add in some barricades that restrict, but do not eliminate entry (i.e. creates choke points but does not block off the node completely).

Players can go to an enemy node and take a power core from the node (channeled skill). There are only enough power cores available to get one team to L1, one team to L2, and one team to L3. A node can, however, hold all the available cores with no ill effect (ability to deny the other teams access to the portals For example, 5 cores = L1, 10 cores = L2, 20 cores = L3 for a total of 35 cores available on the map.

The Oasis event is supposed to be a comeback for weaker servers which will never work as long as it’s mechanics are numbers based (gather most items, kill most npc’s, whatever)

I’m not sure I agree. For one, weaker servers will always have difficulty unless the other side gets overconfident and doesn’t log in as much. If they don’t log in as much a smaller server will still have a chance under either the original event or my alternative. The difference is that the original is less WvW driven and more PvE event driven in flavor.

My proposal is not aimed at the larger issue of server population imbalance. Weaker servers is a serious problem, of course, but the solution to that isn’t so much in map design as it is in working on balancing population across time zones, IMO. Previous design changes were aimed at making server transfers a long term method for addressing the problem. In the short run, of course, we ended up with the same population balance issue (especially with time zones) and people have a lot of emotional attachment to their servers regardless of rank.

I don’t think the OP’s idea would provide the solution we all want.

Here are the facts, as I see them (feel free to challenge them);

• It feels like a chore to do the event when there are no enemies on the map anyway,
• When there are large groups in the event, it IS fun,
• Killing mobs for cogs in small groups/solo is tedious, but,
• Killing 1 or 2 mobs for cogs is tolerable,
• The centre event is intended to pull enemies out from behind walls for fights,
• The centre event is intended to give small groups a chance to make an impact,

With these in mind, how can it be improved?

My option would be take north camp to somewhere else, push keep to north (change keep design to something more pleasent), and make a big castle at the center with several floors, like a babel tower, and with no strong easy gimmicks to win offcourse….

A change keeps design in new BL to somethign more real structure design, and remove weird gimmick would be apreciated Anet, Tks.

Svarty.8019:

I don’t think the OP’s idea would provide the solution we all want.

Here are the facts, as I see them (feel free to challenge them);

• It feels like a chore to do the event when there are no enemies on the map anyway,
• When there are large groups in the event, it IS fun,
• Killing mobs for cogs in small groups/solo is tedious, but,
• Killing 1 or 2 mobs for cogs is tolerable,
• The centre event is intended to pull enemies out from behind walls for fights,
• The centre event is intended to give small groups a chance to make an impact,

With these in mind, how can it be improved?

I’m not sure, from what you said above, what it is that you feel “we” want and therefore I have no idea how you feel my alternative does/not meet those goals. I’ll make some comments on the above assuming that the “centre event is intended” reflects your opinion of what the community wants. I will also assume that “small group” is sized at about five players, each with an average of 20 supply (taking into account the gaining of supply on spending it and increased carrying capacity).

Certainly the idea is to pull people out from behind the walls. Both events accomplish this, the difference is to make the event less about completing a PvE event and more about creating a PvP player driven event that is always active. (Can also add in a self reward aspect where individual players are rewarded for turning in power cores to their node). An additional feature could be that power cores “deplete” over time and every 10-15 minutes a power core is removed from each node and reappears on the ground in the center of the map.

A small group could easily open up the pathways to their side (only 5 orbs needed, one per player—could even plan to have a distraction to draw away NPC guards and players), and then run over to a previously closed off tower and capture it with a couple of superior catas, or take a camp and then a tower. This is an impact appropriate to the game mode. Currently a small group of players can clear the center event in 15 minutes and then the center stops being a draw. Sure there is more “impact” but I think the better option is making it a constant draw for player combat.

A comparison was the buff from controlling the center of a borderland. Small groups of players had a minor but team wide effect by capturing the center. As opposed to a massive strategic weapon or a minor buff, improved mobility is a much better incentive for roamers and larger groups alike.

Aeolus.3615:

My option would be take north camp to somewhere else, push keep to north (change keep design to something more pleasent), and make a big castle at the center with several floors, like a babel tower, and with no strong easy gimmicks to win offcourse….

A change keeps design in new BL to somethign more real structure design, and remove weird gimmick would be apreciated Anet, Tks.

From the sound of it, if I’m interpreting you correctly, this seems to be aimed more at Eternal Battlegrounds and Stonemist Castle. Otherwise you would be talking about removing or significantly changing the borderlands which, while a possibility for ANET to consider, was not the focus of this thread.

I like the idea of making SMC into a three part “tower of babel” where each floor can be captured and attacked internally. Outer walls, inner gates, and three keep lords on the three levels of SMC that must be all beaten in order to capture it. Not a bad concept and it would be a fun competitive setting.

saerni.2584:

I’m not sure, from what you said above, what it is that you feel “we” want and therefore I have no idea how you feel my alternative does/not meet those goals. I’ll make some comments on the above assuming that the “centre event is intended” reflects your opinion of what the community wants. //

Certainly the idea is to pull people out from behind the walls. .

I just wanted to point out that my sources from what is intended are;

1. the centre objectives in old borderlands were originally said to be about giving small groups a way to make an impact.
2. In other feedback to devs, players said they were sick of people sitting on arrow carts behind walls.

True, but the center event in the old borderlands was always “on” because the players could always attempt to hold it. I think that the minor buff wasn’t strong enough an impact. The current laser event, however, is both too strong in terms of effect but also less useful because it is only active for a portion of the whole time.

When I roam I look for things that I can do. Disrupting supply lines, taking a tower quietly, in EB grabbing dredge or ogres or frogs. I want to do things that help my whole team in a way that empowers them. For example, taking frogs allows other players to push on camps and towers and spend less time defending against attacking NPCs.

My alternative works because it empowers players to attack a wider part of the map more quickly or defend more quickly as the case may be. Weakening enemy gates by damaging them, however, is a less interesting way of enabling other players to do things in my opinion.

@saerni.2584 good point there :\, indeed would be more towards EB change.

I’d rather they just levelled that whole area and made it a direct path to the gate of Garrison 2.0.

Guilds can fight at mid to their hearts content or servers can mount a large offensive towards that gate.

There’s no reason to have an event there at all, especially one that destroys gates and favours larger groups.

Less gimmicks, more direct paths and spaces for combat.

Entenkommando.5208:

The Oasis event is supposed to be a comeback for weaker servers which will never work as long as it’s mechanics are numbers based (gather most items, kill most npc’s, whatever)

This event is also time limited, so you will need to have enough player to do this event before timer is down to collect enough of power cores. Doing it with only one or two player is possible, but will require no interruption and very fast kills of NPCs to be able to finish it before time is out.

In some way it reminds about how that NPCs could walk down with a Dolly and camp outside some building gradually destroying door. You had to be three on your WP BL to trigger this event. Forgot the name of that NPCs, but he was pretty hard to kill and had strong CC to pull or push you around.

Just make a king of the hill event in open terrain with slight (and I mean slight elevation in the center with a circle/flag to camp.
Make ppk x5 for 30 minutes every 2-3 hours and let the event rotate borderlands.
This will be more wvw oriented without the gimmicks and without gathering (gathering anything over and over is the bane of all games, why add it to the group pvp area at all?)

Akkeros.1675:

Just make a king of the hill event in open terrain with slight (and I mean slight elevation in the center with a circle/flag to camp.
Make ppk x5 for 30 minutes every 2-3 hours and let the event rotate borderlands.
This will be more wvw oriented without the gimmicks and without gathering (gathering anything over and over is the bane of all games, why add it to the group pvp area at all?)

This actually sounds great. Having a large amount of points at stake would allow skilled players to individually or as a group give their server a boost in points.

It could entice gvg’ers into a risk/reward fight every few hours where they could show off their strength and coordination whilst benefiting the servers PPT.

I liked the ideas in this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Constructive-Features-for-a-good-BL-map

Jayne.9251:

I liked the ideas in this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Constructive-Features-for-a-good-BL-map

When did that one get deleted? Last time I looked in it there wasn’t any flaming.

psizone.8437:

Jayne.9251:

I liked the ideas in this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Constructive-Features-for-a-good-BL-map

When did that one get deleted? Last time I looked in it there wasn’t any flaming.

Huh?

Jayne.9251:

psizone.8437:

Jayne.9251:

I liked the ideas in this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Constructive-Features-for-a-good-BL-map

When did that one get deleted? Last time I looked in it there wasn’t any flaming.

Huh?

Your link leads to a blank page, as if it’s missing?

The only alternative is to remove it.

Akkeros.1675:

Just make a king of the hill event in open terrain with slight (and I mean slight elevation in the center with a circle/flag to camp.
Make ppk x5 for 30 minutes every 2-3 hours and let the event rotate borderlands.
This will be more wvw oriented without the gimmicks and without gathering (gathering anything over and over is the bane of all games, why add it to the group pvp area at all?)

That´d be great! The PPK going up for 30 minutes really would be an appropriate and fun reward!
But king of the hill promotes blobbing up I guess, because especially numbers will be deciding who holds the point longest.

Now I came up with this:
The team accomplishing most kills of enemy players in the oasis during the 5 to 10 min duration of the event will earn that 5x PPK buff for the next 30 min.
Killing a player that just left the oasis area will still count towards the event (countdown of 1 min).
The event rotates between the borderlands taking place once an hour.

That would reward skillful play/coordination more than dumb blobbing. A smaller group of more skilled players can still win against the blob having the clear number´s advantage, even if they wipe. The 20 man guild squad just has to kill 21 enemy squishies in the process

I’d love to see the entire center of the desert BL’s converted into an actual desert with rolling dunes and little else. If anet MUST have some sort of event, make it a randomly spawning legendary mob like the Son of Shatterer who will be the slave of whichever server does the most damage to him, and will help attack an enemy-owned tower or keep.

psizone.8437:

I’d rather they just levelled that whole area and made it a direct path to the gate of Garrison 2.0.

Guilds can fight at mid to their hearts content or servers can mount a large offensive towards that gate.

There’s no reason to have an event there at all, especially one that destroys gates and favours larger groups.

Less gimmicks, more direct paths and spaces for combat.

Sort of a gimmick, but imagine an advanced gigantic ram that activate like the current oasis event, but from the south running north. As long as there is players around it from either invader side, it will slowly, slowly crawl up to the south garri gate. If it stands still too long (ie no invader around, all invaders killed and only defenders there) it will eventually run out of fuel and fail the event. Once through the south gate, it fire grapplings hooks up to lord which players can use to teleport up with.

I think that would be an acceptable compromise to a PvE event in a WvW zone – it requires constant player attention for its duration, it gives a clear victory or loss scenario against a single keep and gate where all sides can focus their forces.

Just musing.

psizone.8437:

Jayne.9251:

psizone.8437:

Jayne.9251:

I liked the ideas in this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Constructive-Features-for-a-good-BL-map

When did that one get deleted? Last time I looked in it there wasn’t any flaming.

Huh?

Your link leads to a blank page, as if it’s missing?

Oh wow, that was majorly bugged. Sorry.

Try this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Constructive-Features-for-a-good-BL-map/first#post5777349

Jayne.9251:

psizone.8437:

Jayne.9251:

psizone.8437:

Jayne.9251:

I liked the ideas in this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Constructive-Features-for-a-good-BL-map

When did that one get deleted? Last time I looked in it there wasn’t any flaming.

Huh?

Your link leads to a blank page, as if it’s missing?

Oh wow, that was majorly bugged. Sorry.

Try this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Constructive-Features-for-a-good-BL-map/first#post5777349

Nice one, cheers!

mixxed.5862:

Akkeros.1675:

Just make a king of the hill event in open terrain with slight (and I mean slight elevation in the center with a circle/flag to camp.
Make ppk x5 for 30 minutes every 2-3 hours and let the event rotate borderlands.
This will be more wvw oriented without the gimmicks and without gathering (gathering anything over and over is the bane of all games, why add it to the group pvp area at all?)

That´d be great! The PPK going up for 30 minutes really would be an appropriate and fun reward!
But king of the hill promotes blobbing up I guess, because especially numbers will be deciding who holds the point longest.

Now I came up with this:
The team accomplishing most kills of enemy players in the oasis during the 5 to 10 min duration of the event will earn that 5x PPK buff for the next 30 min.
Killing a player that just left the oasis area will still count towards the event (countdown of 1 min).
The event rotates between the borderlands taking place once an hour.

That would reward skillful play/coordination more than dumb blobbing. A smaller group of more skilled players can still win against the blob having the clear number´s advantage, even if they wipe. The 20 man guild squad just has to kill 21 enemy squishies in the process

In all honesty I would just like to see a place where groups know other groups are gonna be, are looking for a fight, and have some kind of reward for it.
The reason I figured entrances would be good (similar to a spawn) is you are safe outside but if committed inside you are fair game. So, risk/reward. If a blob thinks they are big and strong enough to be surrounded by several skilled groups and can hold a center, let’em try

I think the OP has some good ideas worth thinking about.

Personally I don’t see anything being done so I’ll just toss my idea out there:

Instead of a laser have it spawn a giant kitten that vomits other kittens that then teleport to random location on the map (does this for 1 hour). Upon coming across these kittens a player can grab one and earn a 200+ buff to all stats and 45% movement speed for 8 minutes. Enemies can kill the kittens that haven’t found a host. Buff is lost if you travel through water. The giant kitten that lasts for 1 hour can be killed but when attacked becomes enraged, granting all kittens on the map an extra 100 buff on all stats for the duration of the attack. If the event lasts the entire hour the Giant kitten explodes….making the map explode and sending all players to EBG. Upon reaching EBG the players gain the buff “kitten vomit” for 10 minutes. They are covered in a green goo for the duration of the time, periodically “meow’ing”. Buff removed when in contact with water.

Svarty.8019:

I don’t think the OP’s idea would provide the solution we all want.

Here are the facts, as I see them (feel free to challenge them);

• It feels like a chore to do the event when there are no enemies on the map anyway,
• When there are large groups in the event, it IS fun,

No it isn’kittens just a open world style free for all. Doesn’t belong in WvW at all.

Old bloodlust was great. Nothing wrong with it.