Guild Wars 2

Are you planning to restart the “WvW rankings” for the expansion?

Are you talking about the servers Glicko ratings? Because that would be hilarious. I support that motion.

yup, or just put my server JQ in tier 3/5/6/8 (for example), but yeah, modify the glicko ratings xD

It’s funny how you’re assuming Anet actually cares about WvW : )

I betcha a couple ectos that NOTHING will happen to the wvw structure. They’ll just dump us on the new maps and make more Scarlett Quin fanfiction.

This system cannot continue….I still believe in Arenanet

I support a revamp of Glicko, but resetting it would do more harm than good. Can you imagine just for a second JQ versus ET versus any third server? Nope, that would be really bad.

Monkey D Oni.5967:

yup, or just put my server JQ in tier 3/5/6/8 (for example), but yeah, modify the glicko ratings xD

Do you want to tick 600+ all the time and have nothing to do? …

yanniell.1236:

Monkey D Oni.5967:

yup, or just put my server JQ in tier 3/5/6/8 (for example), but yeah, modify the glicko ratings xD

Do you want to tick 600+ all the time and have nothing to do? …

Pretty sure that JQ would be more than happy with that.

Downwood.3192:

yanniell.1236:

Monkey D Oni.5967:

yup, or just put my server JQ in tier 3/5/6/8 (for example), but yeah, modify the glicko ratings xD

Do you want to tick 600+ all the time and have nothing to do? …

Pretty sure that JQ would be more than happy with that.

You…you’re pretty alright.

oh kid (Downwood)….do you think that the entire server want a locked tier (like now JQ/BG/TC)? i only asked for a revamp of glicko, at least put us (tier 1 servers) in tier 3 at least, i dunno…tier 1 ruined the maps politics, we need a change….thats all….

Reseting or increasing the random factor on Glicko is only going to make for X amount of weeks with really bad match-up’s, and in the end you’ll be stuck with more or less the same servers you got now (plus or minus a few bandwagons and implosions).

The main thing reseting Glicko would accomplish is:

(1) Kill off most of the fair-weather population on most servers except for the top 3 ones.

(2) Drive several servers away from WvW for weeks or moths at a time. In disgust with a match-up, tired of being face-rolled 100vs10, and just in protest hoping to let the other server eat as much glicko as possible to rocket p to next tier so they can get rid of them.

(3) and after all that, we will be back where we are today. Yay!

The glicko isn’t the problem, glicko system works exactly as intended. The problem is that the servers are simply to unbalanced for glicko to work with. Look at the top 10 or so servers in EU, the glicko works pretty well there, because you have multiple close servers.

Gligko works well for Blackgate & tier = Anet will never touch it. Pure and simple.

The problem is the population (more precisely the lack of) on lower tiers that suffer from the glicko system that doesn’t/can’t take that into account (what an insensitive kitten!^^).

ONCE AGAIN. We need server mergers or free transfers TOWARDS lower tiers. We’ve been ragging over and over here for the past 2 years. I’m probably very close to being banned with all the warnings I’ve received and STILL the issue remains the godkitten same…

joneirikb.7506:

Reseting or increasing the random factor on Glicko is only going to make for X amount of weeks with really bad match-up’s, and in the end you’ll be stuck with more or less the same servers you got now (plus or minus a few bandwagons and implosions)…

…The glicko isn’t the problem, glicko system works exactly as intended. The problem is that the servers are simply to unbalanced for glicko to work with. Look at the top 10 or so servers in EU, the glicko works pretty well there, because you have multiple close servers.

I agree that resetting the Glicko would be bad. My post above was made in jest. But the OP does have a point.

And Glicko is the problem. Its always been the problem. Its always been bad, for NA servers at least.

One problem with it is that it doesn’t respond fast enough to changes in a servers population so they get stuck in a tier where they don’t belong.

Second, even after the RNG element was added there is still too much stagnation and lack of variety – even when there could be good matches and variety. (Look at T3 – T4 NA)

If they plan to keep this stupid server system, they need to cut the number of servers by half. Simple as that. There’s just not enough people for 24 servers anymore.

yanniell.1236:

If they plan to keep this stupid server system, they need to cut the number of servers by half. Simple as that. There’s just not enough people for 24 servers anymore.

This guy. Yes

Yes, I have wall of text syndrome, sorry.

@DiscoJacen

You actually did bring up one example where Glicko IS broken, NA T1. That should not be possible really. Unfortunately another by-product of the Glicko system trying to handle the server structure of GW2, and it is the server-structure/population/coverage/PPT that is the problem here, not Glicko.

If looking just at the Glicko system, a small change to add a small glicko adjuster each week, something like making the higher glicko servers lose a smalla mount of glicko each week, and the lower servers gain a small amount of glicko each week. This way they all slowly creep toward the middle, so they have to continually fight to remain on top. It would also slowly erode the current locked tiers etc, and give even lower servers a chance to see some other servers every now and then (but still get beaten).

But this is looking at the Glicko in a vacuum, which doesn’t solve all the other issues that impacts this.

Also, while at this stage I wouldn’t be against a limited server merge for the lower tiers. Server merges is still just delaying the inevitable. The same problem will happen again, no matter what amount of servers. Always preferred fixing the root issue, instead of dealing with the symptoms. They will need to make a Dynamically self adjusting system, that can adapt itself to the number of players etc, not rigid locked system like servers. This is one of the main advantages of an alliance system, since they can design it dynamically from the start.

@Hohje Holan

Agree that it could respond faster, I think that is possible to adjust in the settings by altering the formula (which they should do). For example if you gained more glicko rating (say x2 current numbers) servers would shift much faster up and down.

I’m just tired of watching people complain that Glicko is ruining their game, when in fact the Glicko is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. It is simply that the Game and Servers aren’t doing what they are supposed to do, and thus making Glicko taking the blame. If they remove the glicko, and put in some other system, like say winner goes up and loser goes down, each week. You will still have the exact same servers with the same population and coverage problems. And instead of meeting the same 3-4 servers, you’ll meet the same 4 servers near constantly.

Glicko is designed for use among profession chess players etc, where skill is relatively stable. GW2 isn’t stable, with transfers, fair-weathers, work vs vacation, burn-out etc. GW2 is simply put much more casual than what Glicko is designed for, and should be adjusted for that.

@yanniell

I agree, either get rid of the server system, or reduce the number of servers. Alternatively do both, and make an Alliance system with servers, so you can toss for ex: ET+Kain together to increase their numbers.

Monkey D Oni.5967:

oh kid (Downwood)….do you think that the entire server want a locked tier (like now JQ/BG/TC)? i only asked for a revamp of glicko, at least put us (tier 1 servers) in tier 3 at least, i dunno…tier 1 ruined the maps politics, we need a change….thats all….

The only way to break T1 status is for T1 servers to encourage some of their offhours guilds to move on down. JQ SEA by itself, even with a large reduction in their NA will keep JQ at or near the top of the heap in large part due to the huge Glicko discrepancy between T1 and other tiers.

T2 servers rival T1 numbers during NAprime(excepting SoS most nights), but the biggest difference is, as always, offhours. FA probably could’ve challenged for a spot in T1 prior to Ra moving to BG, but that ended that dream. Similar to when SoS had a giant OCX train that could’ve pushed them on up…..until many transferred to T1. Trust me here in T2 we are becoming sick of the locked matches week after week. Best times here lately were when DB was challenging for a spot(with huge offhours coverage), and all the servers feared dropping to T3.

The moves of strength from T2 and below to T1 is what perpetuates the constant stagnation in T1. Perhaps the T1 servers could just deathmatch to push one of the current T1 servers out. Then guilds leave that server, and you have a new partner for awhile.

Change in matchups would be great, but it has to be a player-led movement, because ANet has zero way to force guilds to move. Let me retract that; ANet has no acceptable way to force guilds to move.

And after a few weeks, you have the same situation like now…

And these “offhours” guilds are playing in their primetime, so why should they leave a server just to make other people happy? Sure, they could join the rival server, like they do in T1, but this make them also to a hate-object.

I’m playing on jq during eu. When I have joined this server 6 months ago, there was a permanently 2v1 situation against jq during that timezone, I loved this <3. JQ had have 2 EU guilds once, now only one is left, but there is no challenge anymore. BG and TC try to avoid fights with jq, except when they outnumbered jq 3-5 times. Sometimes there is no BG presence, sometimes no TC. So which guild should encourage to destack, when there are no queues, no any other wvw guilds?

And push one bigger server in a lower tier, is really, really a bad situation, which I wish that this will never happen again to any other server. The 4 T2 server situation had killed my old server, only a tournament could had stopped this point. The lower ranked server won’t survive in this situation for long.

For those asking for a server merger, you have to know that would be a very very bad idea to do, right before an expansion. It is much wiser to simply open up free transfers for the first 30 to 60 days after the expansions release.

This would allow for the population goth the expansion brings, to move to servers with no queues or smaller queus, and allow a more natural population dispersment.

In theory that would work. IRL I highly doubt it. But since I don’t see Anet doing anything not until hot releases I guess we’ll what that happens.

dancingmonkey.4902:

For those asking for a server merger, you have to know that would be a very very bad idea to do, right before an expansion. It is much wiser to simply open up free transfers for the first 30 to 60 days after the expansions release.

This would allow for the population goth the expansion brings, to move to servers with no queues or smaller queus, and allow a more natural population dispersment.

Except people are people , and they would move up not down. We saw what happened both times ANet gave free server transfers. At the beginning of the game everyone moved upwards, which led to our current predicament. When I was on BG during Season 1 the queues were unreal, but no one left to escape them. The second time they allowed free transfers it just led to a few bandwagon servers and a few dead servers.

I started on CD, and when it was announced that free transfers were ending my old guild started to panic. We were willing to stick out the tough times knowing that we COULD leave if we wanted to without an issue, but when they announced that free transfers were ending we decided we had to leave. We didn’t move down. No one moved down. BG ended up with tons of players from all over the lower tiers, and got locked into T1, because the population at the time was too high for BG to fail.

Merges are the only option to consolidate the remaining WvW population into 6 more balanced tiers, and allowing free transfers would simply move too many people into the top three tiers leading to tiers 4-6 to be in the same boat that tiers 7 and 8 are in now.

No one is suggesting current players will move down. Returning players who have no real investment in thier server, from being gone a while, may indeed move down. Not to mention, returning players who are already on lower tier servers will add to the playing population.

It really doesn’t meter what argument you want to use, there is no logical reason to try to make a change until after the injection of both returning and new players, from the release of the expansion.

@dancingmonkey

Agreed that they should not mess with server numbers until after HoT, to see how the population shifts. But this is a problem that will return no matter what, and if I where them (and had any powers to decide anything) I’d already be looking at finding an alternative to servers.

But I also completely agree with Kaiser on: "Except people are people", if ANet opens free transfers now, the bottom servers will be deserted, instantly.