Guild Wars 2

extra post for forums glitch

Coldtart.4785:

coglin.1867:

scerevisiae.1972:

the only problem with condis is +/- 40% condi duration food.

Do you have any damage output numbers that a condition build with that food does more damage then a power based build can put out with its optimal food? Until you provide something like that, you are making nothing more then an unfounded claim.

I personally would like to see some factual numbers, to make this debate based on objective facts versus post that are subjective opinions.

7-1 win ratio in a series of duels against a d/d ele using a rabid rev during the rev beta by essentially rolling my face over the keyboard isn’t a factual number?

Duels is not WVW… you can’t base your data in WvW on a 1 vs 1 fight. Also what gear were you in? Zerker? I mow down zerker meta’s now with my condi necro, but once I fight someone who actually spec’s some cleansing/defense gear/skills my fights get a whole lot harder.

Not able to check patch in the moment: did Arena net fixed conditions: Burning ?

DarkSyze.8627:

Not able to check patch in the moment: did Arena net fixed conditions: Burning ?

It wasnt in the patch notes

DarkSyze.8627:

Not able to check patch in the moment: did Arena net fixed conditions: Burning ?

Nothing to fix. There is nothing wrong with the condition.

The only possible issue, are some skills or traits, subjectively applying too many stacks or too long of a duration. Making it a skill and trait issue, not a “burning” issue with the condition itself. I feel it is important to distinguish the two.

What’s also really annoying is most classes playing condi (especially with trapper rune) have no need for secondary stats like power so they can go full vit/tough/condi. Op dmg, op survival.

Conditioned.2467:

What’s also really annoying is most classes playing condi (especially with trapper rune) have no need for secondary stats like power so they can go full vit/tough/condi. Op dmg, op survival.

Can you post your damage break down you did to determine that it does more damage then a power build with equal vitality and a toughness?

dancingmonkey.4902:

Sirendor.1394:

coglin.1867:

Sirendor.1394:

TheLastNobody.8319:

I will never understand why people hate conditions so much…

Passive play.

1. Apply condition
2. Kite
3. Enemy clears condition after x damage

Repeat until 3. isn’t longer possible because enemy is through his condi clears.

I do not think passive play means what you think it means. You have to land a skill to apply conditions.. Precisely like you have to land a skill to apply direct damage.

It is a very simple concept.

Landing a skill/Taking a button press action = Applying Damage

I think part of the issue here, is a fundamental lack of understanding of how the game works.

Sirendor.1394:

Step 2 makes no sense in a direct damage scenario, because it does not benefit damage output in melee situations. Condition damage however, still hits the enemy regardless of application.

No, condition damage does continue hit the enemy.

Direct damage attack lands and does 5000 damage instantly.

Condition application skill lands, does 1000 damage per second for 5 seconds. That’s 5000 damage over 5s.

It is true that you need to apply it once. But after you have done that (and your condi has a sufficient duration), it requires no further action of the player.

Example given: trap ranger. He drops his traps, waits till you walk in them and then all he has to do is wait till you drop dead. It requires no further activity on the trap ranger’s end. Of course usually you have at least 1 or 2 condi clears, but once you’re through these, it’s simply a waiting game.

If you die from ranger traps alone, it is a L2P issue. If your a poor enough player that you continually stand in a red circle damage field long enough to reapply conditions. Very bad game play is not a reasonable argument for nerfing anything.

If your build is poor enough that you cannot cleanse, and traps alone kill you because you have zero vitality, and no traits to cleanse or cleansing skills, your playing a poor build. Running a poor build is not a reasonable argument for nerfing anything.

It was an example, learn to read. A condi build can kite while causing damage, as soon as a power build starts kiting, he stops damaging. Simple fact. It’s where the “passive play” idea comes from, and no matter the stats, traits, foods and cleans (and skill) it’s why a condi build is slightly easier to play.

borya.2964:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Sirendor.1394:

coglin.1867:

Sirendor.1394:

TheLastNobody.8319:

I will never understand why people hate conditions so much…

Passive play.

1. Apply condition
2. Kite
3. Enemy clears condition after x damage

Repeat until 3. isn’t longer possible because enemy is through his condi clears.

I do not think passive play means what you think it means. You have to land a skill to apply conditions.. Precisely like you have to land a skill to apply direct damage.

It is a very simple concept.

Landing a skill/Taking a button press action = Applying Damage

I think part of the issue here, is a fundamental lack of understanding of how the game works.

Sirendor.1394:

Step 2 makes no sense in a direct damage scenario, because it does not benefit damage output in melee situations. Condition damage however, still hits the enemy regardless of application.

No, condition damage does continue hit the enemy.

Direct damage attack lands and does 5000 damage instantly.

Condition application skill lands, does 1000 damage per second for 5 seconds. That’s 5000 damage over 5s.

It is true that you need to apply it once. But after you have done that (and your condi has a sufficient duration), it requires no further action of the player.

Example given: trap ranger. He drops his traps, waits till you walk in them and then all he has to do is wait till you drop dead. It requires no further activity on the trap ranger’s end. Of course usually you have at least 1 or 2 condi clears, but once you’re through these, it’s simply a waiting game.

If you die from ranger traps alone, it is a L2P issue. If your a poor enough player that you continually stand in a red circle damage field long enough to reapply conditions. Very bad game play is not a reasonable argument for nerfing anything.

If your build is poor enough that you cannot cleanse, and traps alone kill you because you have zero vitality, and no traits to cleanse or cleansing skills, your playing a poor build. Running a poor build is not a reasonable argument for nerfing anything.

It was an example, learn to read. A condi build can kite while causing damage, as soon as a power build starts kiting, he stops damaging. Simple fact. It’s where the “passive play” idea comes from, and no matter the stats, traits, foods and cleans (and skill) it’s why a condi build is slightly easier to play.

You cannot declare “learn to read” when your stating misinformation that contradicts how the game actually functions.

It appears you are suggesting that ccondition builds can apply damage without button presses to cause an attack or action. The fact is, condition builds cannot do any more or less damage then direct damage builds while kiting. Both damage types need to land a skill or attack to do damage, in relatively equivalent ways.

You have to press a button and land a skill to apply direct damage. Equally you have to hit a button to apply a skill to do condition damage. Equally, in most cases, dodging said skill of either damage type, negates the damage application. In most cases, blocking the skill that applies the damage of either damage type negates the damage. Giving equivalent value to blocking and dodging, against both direct damage and condition damage applying skills.

If you cannot kite and apply direct damage, that is an issue with something you are having a provlem with. I kite and do direct damage perfectly fine, as well, I see other doing it on a daily bases. There are plenty of videos demonstrating that.

coglin.1867:

Conditioned.2467:

What’s also really annoying is most classes playing condi (especially with trapper rune) have no need for secondary stats like power so they can go full vit/tough/condi. Op dmg, op survival.

Can you post your damage break down you did to determine that it does more damage then a power build with equal vitality and a toughness?

Full Dires gear will always be better than Full Soldier’s gear due to the fact that power scaling is meant to take into account three stats. Condition damage relies only upon one.

In a duelling scenario, any class running dires will always 100% of the time beat a spec running soldiers. Why? Because conditions deal armor ignoring damage and power doesn’t.

Soilder.3607:

coglin.1867:

Conditioned.2467:

What’s also really annoying is most classes playing condi (especially with trapper rune) have no need for secondary stats like power so they can go full vit/tough/condi. Op dmg, op survival.

Can you post your damage break down you did to determine that it does more damage then a power build with equal vitality and a toughness?

Full Dires gear will always be better than Full Soldier’s gear due to the fact that power scaling is meant to take into account three stats. Condition damage relies only upon one.

In a duelling scenario, any class running dires will always 100% of the time beat a spec running soldiers. Why? Because conditions deal armor ignoring damage and power doesn’t.

So how would a zerg of dire do against a zerg of pvt? Dueling and zerging are apples and oranges. My zerker Mesmer destroys a condition Mesmer without -40% food perhaps you would like to explain that?

There is also the myth that condition builds only need one stat. Precision and condition duration are needed to really make a condi build shine.

You have the choice to either experiment/adapt to the builds that give you trouble or keep parroting the same arguments that have been proven wrong over and over. I will give you an example. I used to have problems with power stun lock builds. Instead of coming to the forums to call foul I spent the time/gold to build my own and play with it so I could learn the counter play. I currently have problems fighting static discharge engineers. I’m saving up the gold right now to re-equip my engineer to play static discharge myself to learn how it works and what it’s weaknesses are.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

There is also the myth that condition builds only need one stat. Precision and condition duration are needed to really make a condi build shine.

Not really the same though is it, you can get ample condi duration from food, stones, runes, sigils, etc, up to something like 75% for all condies and something like 105% for specific conditions like burning, so you don’t need to sacrifice a stat on your armour to get it.

As for precision, again not really, condi builds are only reliant on crit hit to proc traits every X seconds or to proc sigils like torment, so you can get away with having much lower crit chance than you need for most power builds, so can still build with mostly dire and a little bit of rabid, when I play condi engy I have something like 24k HP & 3.1k armour and about 25% crit to proc things, beyond that certain condi builds do not require any crit and can roll face even more with full dire, trapper ranger does not require crit for example.

Hence dire (or dire with a bit of rabid) is a total joke in terms of balance, it is low risk and high reward, which is why it got thrown out of PvP pretty sharply when they initially put it in there, but apparently stuff that is considered too broken OP for PvP is fine for WvW…

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Soilder.3607:

coglin.1867:

Conditioned.2467:

What’s also really annoying is most classes playing condi (especially with trapper rune) have no need for secondary stats like power so they can go full vit/tough/condi. Op dmg, op survival.

Can you post your damage break down you did to determine that it does more damage then a power build with equal vitality and a toughness?

Full Dires gear will always be better than Full Soldier’s gear due to the fact that power scaling is meant to take into account three stats. Condition damage relies only upon one.

In a duelling scenario, any class running dires will always 100% of the time beat a spec running soldiers. Why? Because conditions deal armor ignoring damage and power doesn’t.

So how would a zerg of dire do against a zerg of pvt? Dueling and zerging are apples and oranges. My zerker Mesmer destroys a condition Mesmer without -40% food perhaps you would like to explain that?

There is also the myth that condition builds only need one stat. Precision and condition duration are needed to really make a condi build shine.

You have the choice to either experiment/adapt to the builds that give you trouble or keep parroting the same arguments that have been proven wrong over and over. I will give you an example. I used to have problems with power stun lock builds. Instead of coming to the forums to call foul I spent the time/gold to build my own and play with it so I could learn the counter play. I currently have problems fighting static discharge engineers. I’m saving up the gold right now to re-equip my engineer to play static discharge myself to learn how it works and what it’s weaknesses are.

Hey bud, I said Full Dire’s fighting Full Soldiers will always win. I did not say that condition in general will always beat power and made no mention of zerker gear. Also, condition damage IS the only stat needed to make a condition damage build work. Precision and duration boosts are not necessities in the aspect of PvP. Duration boosts are usually ran in anticipation of an enemy having a countering duration minus food.

Zerg vs Zerg is a different scenario, and due to spammable AoE condition removal, soldiers would probably be the better choice. But my main point was that, in the instance of two people fighting each other, Dire gear will always remain superior to Soldiers.

Conditioned.2467:

What’s also really annoying is most classes playing condi (especially with trapper rune) have no need for secondary stats like power so they can go full vit/tough/condi. Op dmg, op survival.

Right. And theres no such thing as a tanky PVT build….. cuz crit % and ferocity matter in zergs or whenever using GWEN meta…. O wait, it does matter, its what we call rallybait and are always overjoyed when our opponents have them, you know the term right ? Its been around LONG LONG LONG LONG before condi builds and still applies.

O wait, I’ve only been running those since the game launched ….

O and I have cleanses too on them ….

Soilder.3607:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Soilder.3607:

coglin.1867:

Conditioned.2467:

What’s also really annoying is most classes playing condi (especially with trapper rune) have no need for secondary stats like power so they can go full vit/tough/condi. Op dmg, op survival.

Can you post your damage break down you did to determine that it does more damage then a power build with equal vitality and a toughness?

Full Dires gear will always be better than Full Soldier’s gear due to the fact that power scaling is meant to take into account three stats. Condition damage relies only upon one.

In a duelling scenario, any class running dires will always 100% of the time beat a spec running soldiers. Why? Because conditions deal armor ignoring damage and power doesn’t.

So how would a zerg of dire do against a zerg of pvt? Dueling and zerging are apples and oranges. My zerker Mesmer destroys a condition Mesmer without -40% food perhaps you would like to explain that?

There is also the myth that condition builds only need one stat. Precision and condition duration are needed to really make a condi build shine.

You have the choice to either experiment/adapt to the builds that give you trouble or keep parroting the same arguments that have been proven wrong over and over. I will give you an example. I used to have problems with power stun lock builds. Instead of coming to the forums to call foul I spent the time/gold to build my own and play with it so I could learn the counter play. I currently have problems fighting static discharge engineers. I’m saving up the gold right now to re-equip my engineer to play static discharge myself to learn how it works and what it’s weaknesses are.

Hey bud, I said Full Dire’s fighting Full Soldiers will always win. I did not say that condition in general will always beat power and made no mention of zerker gear. Also, condition damage IS the only stat needed to make a condition damage build work. Precision and duration boosts are not necessities in the aspect of PvP. Duration boosts are usually ran in anticipation of an enemy having a countering duration minus food.

Zerg vs Zerg is a different scenario, and due to spammable AoE condition removal, soldiers would probably be the better choice. But my main point was that, in the instance of two people fighting each other, Dire gear will always remain superior to Soldiers.

Hey bud Anet have said multiple times that the game isn’t balanced on 1v1. Continue to cry and wonder why it doesn’t get changed if that what suits you.

^maybe thats the problem It SHOULD be balanced around 1 vs1. Anet said at the beginning that they wanted every class to be able to take care of its self and have its own roles. Why we have no dedicated healers and all have our own heal skills. Because they want no trinity. Its contradictory to not balance it around 1 vs 1 so all classes can take care of themselves equally.

Thats they whole reason I bought the game in the first place. when they said no trinity and that every class could be independent and take care of themselves. I thought that would mean i’d never have to rely on other people like in other mmos and could do everything myself. That’s the whole reason me and several of my friends and guild members from other games even bothered with GW2 to begin with. we group up occasionally, but are all primarily solo players and like to do most stuff alone. Thats why it appealed to us in the beginning. and it WAS like that at first. but anet has strayed so far from what it originally was.

They need to go back to how the game used to be and start balancing more around the 1 vs 1 aspect of the game, or they’re going to lose alot of people. I’m not in a minority here, there are tons of people that play this game purely for the 1 on 1 fights. I know several guilds of 30-40+ people like that who have already given up and left this game because of the fact that 1 vs 1 balance has gotten so bad at this point. Hell even my guild has only like 5 people left in it now that even bother logging on anymore. people are getting sick of it and i dont blame them.

Well players leave game because they can’t l2p. They just smash their keyboard, blame balance and rage quit.

Nikkinella.8254:

^maybe thats the problem It SHOULD be balanced around 1 vs1. Anet said at the beginning that they wanted every class to be able to take care of its self and have its own roles. Why we have no dedicated healers and all have our own heal skills. Because they want no trinity. Its contradictory to not balance it around 1 vs 1 so all classes can take care of themselves equally.

Thats they whole reason I bought the game in the first place. when they said no trinity and that every class could be independent and take care of themselves. I thought that would mean i’d never have to rely on other people like in other mmos and could do everything myself. That’s the whole reason me and several of my friends and guild members from other games even bothered with GW2 to begin with. we group up occasionally, but are all primarily solo players and like to do most stuff alone. Thats why it appealed to us in the beginning. and it WAS like that at first. but anet has strayed so far from what it originally was.

They need to go back to how the game used to be and start balancing more around the 1 vs 1 aspect of the game, or they’re going to lose alot of people. I’m not in a minority here, there are tons of people that play this game purely for the 1 on 1 fights. I know several guilds of 30-40+ people like that who have already given up and left this game because of the fact that 1 vs 1 balance has gotten so bad at this point. Hell even my guild has only like 5 people left in it now that even bother logging on anymore. people are getting sick of it and i dont blame them.

Balance a game with no 1v1 aspect to it at all around 1v1? That doesn’t make any sense.

Soilder.3607:

coglin.1867:

Conditioned.2467:

What’s also really annoying is most classes playing condi (especially with trapper rune) have no need for secondary stats like power so they can go full vit/tough/condi. Op dmg, op survival.

Can you post your damage break down you did to determine that it does more damage then a power build with equal vitality and a toughness?

Full Dires gear will always be better than Full Soldier’s gear due to the fact that power scaling is meant to take into account three stats. Condition damage relies only upon one.

This “fact” has been claimed for years now. Yet no one has actually managed to proof it. That’s where all these “nerf condi threads” always fail and die down, when it comes down to actually proving things.

But if you want to be the first and break the cycle, go ahead and proof that this is a fact.

Junkpile.7439:

Well players leave game because they can’t l2p. They just smash their keyboard, blame balance and rage quit.

yeah thats the ONLY reason players leave a game…..riiiiigght.

Spartacus.3192:

Junkpile.7439:

Well players leave game because they can’t l2p. They just smash their keyboard, blame balance and rage quit.

yeah thats the ONLY reason players leave a game…..riiiiigght.

Well Junk as also a bit of truth there..
It is like, play clever use what Anet made strong or super effective or leave, game not design to play how players want, if they want to be efficient.

Anet barely balance games, they just change one meta to another…player just need to follow the flow.

Aeolus.3615:

Spartacus.3192:

Junkpile.7439:

Well players leave game because they can’t l2p. They just smash their keyboard, blame balance and rage quit.

yeah thats the ONLY reason players leave a game…..riiiiigght.

Well Junk as also a bit of truth there..
It is like, play clever use what Anet made strong or super effective or leave, game not design to play how players want, if they want to be efficient.

Anet barely balance games, they just change one meta to another…player just need to follow the flow.

Oh great! Let’s all re-roll to mesmers because THAT will obviously solve all problems…

The smart thing is to play what you want because what you want is what is going to be fun. Unless all that matters to ppl is to win easily, and I hope not, go with what you like and do your best with it knowing you are at a disadvantage hoping ANET will limit how bad the balance is out of control.

All Mesmer Zergs!
5 DD Cele Eles in sPvP!

If only 1 class is in play, it’s balanced! Same chances, only player-skill counts!

coglin.1867:

I disagree.

It is no better or worse then direct damage. What I feel is the problem, are simply specific skills, and every profession has them, that apply abnormally high stack counts of a specific condition.

I often read complaints about conditions, only to find out the one complaining, isn’t utilizing all of the traits or skills avaliable to them to counter what their complaining about.

Your complaint in itself is so broad, it cannot support a real discussion, in my opinion. If you are going to complain about damage your taking, you should list the build your running, thay you are basing your complaint on. Unless you do that, you have no reason to blame design in my opinion. If you list builds with good cleansing, then you can have an argument to make. You could at the very least, list skills you feel are problematic, and suggest how they compare to equivalent direct damage skills.

As I see it the problem isn’t conditions, it is damage out put as a whole. Direct damage is no higher or lower then condition damage out put right now.

Exactly. Damage in general has been boosted after trait changes and vit/thoughness for at least warrior/guard been reduced. (almost 15% reduction of HP on warrior). Caused by the removal of stats from trait lines and adding them into base stats. I think ANET used PvE data to determine how much base stats should be added looking at how people specced their classes. For heavies in WvW any group player has mostly defense trait lines used and now suddenly lose boon duration/thoughness/vit. Power however has been increased as base stats for everyone. More dps and alot less survivability. If this continues(Stab changes where poorly implemented too, should have moved stability up to be first stripped or one of the first stipped instead of what we have now) WvW will soon be an arcade game with quick fights lasting a few seconds being decided by who has the most AoE.

Everyone just think for a while about fights in past and fights now. I am pretty sure everyone will realize those long intense fights are becoming less frequent.

P.S. confusion/torment need to be cleanses quicker. It’s crazy i can have 4/5 boons doing no damage and confusion+torment hwich are killing me and after using 5 clears i stil lhave my torment and confusion!

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Hey bud Anet have said multiple times that the game isn’t balanced on 1v1. Continue to cry and wonder why it doesn’t get changed if that what suits you.

where did they say that? please dont lie.

Steelo.4597:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Hey bud Anet have said multiple times that the game isn’t balanced on 1v1. Continue to cry and wonder why it doesn’t get changed if that what suits you.

where did they say that? please dont lie.

MANY places MANY times. Game is balanced primarily 5 vs 5 in SPVP. Google advanced search is your friend. They also stated that game balance is rock / paper / scissors style, so there are hard counters to everything, and again, just like in WvW condi is only good for small potatoes and completely fails and breaks down large scale, in 5 v5 in SPVP condi is nearly useless in higher ranks and rated matches where people know how to build.

Problem is that we have too many PVE zerker scrubs running in WvW that are unwilling or too stupid to run decent builds to properly compliment their team mates. On top of that they run into 1v1 hard counter which naturally owns them, then cry foul.

Tongku.5326:

Steelo.4597:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Hey bud Anet have said multiple times that the game isn’t balanced on 1v1. Continue to cry and wonder why it doesn’t get changed if that what suits you.

where did they say that? please dont lie.

MANY places MANY times. Game is balanced primarily 5 vs 5 in SPVP. Google advanced search is your friend. They also stated that game balance is rock / paper / scissors style, so there are hard counters to everything, and again, just like in WvW condi is only good for small potatoes and completely fails and breaks down large scale, in 5 v5 in SPVP condi is nearly useless in higher ranks and rated matches where people know how to build.

Problem is that we have too many PVE zerker scrubs running in WvW that are unwilling or too stupid to run decent builds to properly compliment their team mates. On top of that they run into 1v1 hard counter which naturally owns them, then cry foul.

“…scrubs running in WvW that are unwilling or too stupid to run decent builds”
This ^^

Sekai.2987:

• 40% condition duration foods (increase and decrease)

imo thats the true problem, 40% is simply to much, they should remove both foods or tune it down to 10-20%

if you have -40% and the condi player doesnt have +40% its way to easy to win

if you dont have -40% and the condy player has +40% its way to hard to win

i really wonder that there are not alot more theards about how OP that buffod is, everyone that plays condi and use the food can confirm that it has a huge impact on the fight, maybe everyone just blames condi without thinking that condi would not be that good without the bufffood

ps: for for zergfights it doesnt even matter, the aoe condi clean is immense

I accept removing 40 and changing it top 40 IF and ONLY IF all condition reduction stats are halved as well. On FOOD!, melandru, antitoxin, hoelbrak and other runes, on obsidion armor -50% reduction of DOT dmg for duration, resistance giving 50% condition dmg reduction while its up and so on.

Yes. thats right. Only then !

Else look around and find stuff for your build. -40% condition food, condition removal on sigils/traits, -20-24% from runes (Or more) cleanses from your zerg/havoc group/ roaming partners, this coupled with cleanses and resistance should be sufficient, and else get a build which will overpower and kill the condi user before you die.

Oh you forgot:

+25% condition duration outgoing/-40% condition incoming which is perfect for condi vs condi battles..

Some very interesting thoughts in this thread. Well done everyone.

I think part of the problem with condi removals is that most of the skills remove 1 condition. or at most I’ve seen 3 conditions.

When someone can stack 6-8 conditions on you instantly, and begin stacking, and there’s no way to know if your cleanse will remove chill and cripple instead of the 18 bleeds you have on.

It’s frustrating, to be certain.

i do think there is enough condi clear to deal with condi builds. I think the problem lies in not all players knowing how to deal with certain conditions. Running a shout warrior in a 1v1 fight is going to do jackkitten. But run an warrior with endure pain and berserker stance and the signet that gives a passive heal of 300 hp a second, combined with melandru runes and lemongrass and poultry soup and conditions will be a lot more managable. You are not supposed to run shouts withe a melee build. But often use passive condi reducing effects to deal with them for example. Stay on the offensive.

For example. the thing is not all classes are guardians or elementalist with utilities that allow to cure 2 or more condi’s with each go, neither to they have a strong passive heal.

With thief u can either run acrobatics or go with the shadowarts stealth uptime, allowing the condi’’s to fly off. But instead when it comes to thief it’s better to just be agressive and interupt and stuns.

All classes except the thief have viable ways of dealing with conditions. certain runes amplify certain class traits, the warrior has so much options that grant immunity or reduce the the condi duration that it’s better to actually go with stances and melandru runes then to play with direct condi clear for example.

Then add in the fact that condi builds while tankier and ignore armour actually often lack cc and more direct ways of damage.. they need to stack, they do not often just hit you with 2 to 3 k hits like that. neither do you get ragdolled all across the field. they burst only if they are able to stack condi’s on you. also condi builds really only have one way of damaging you. the moment they meet an anti condi build, they are boned, there was a thread in the pvp section in which people were complaining about the ele trait called diamond skin.

DPS builds often can deal an insane amount of damage unless they actually meat an bunker guard with kittenloads of blocks, altruistic healing and 3 k plus toughness for example. they are very bunker builds, Át this moment only the warrior, guardian and ele can actually bunker properly in general.

even if you run a build with 20 k+ hp and3 k plus toughness. the isnane ferocity and high precision combined with often some form of cc. still allows you to get bursted down.

Dopamine.7502:

Exactly. Damage in general has been boosted after trait changes and vit/thoughness for at least warrior/guard been reduced. (almost 15% reduction of HP on warrior). Caused by the removal of stats from trait lines and adding them into base stats. I think ANET used PvE data to determine how much base stats should be added looking at how people specced their classes. For heavies in WvW any group player has mostly defense trait lines used and now suddenly lose boon duration/thoughness/vit. Power however has been increased as base stats for everyone. More dps and alot less survivability. If this continues(Stab changes where poorly implemented too, should have moved stability up to be first stripped or one of the first stipped instead of what we have now) WvW will soon be an arcade game with quick fights lasting a few seconds being decided by who has the most AoE.

Everyone just think for a while about fights in past and fights now. I am pretty sure everyone will realize those long intense fights are becoming less frequent.

This, and to think they are removing guard stacks so everyone will be running around in WvW 2500 hps lower than what they are now. DPS thieves with like 13 000 hps are going to auto die on inc when burn stacks can easily tick for 4k+ and be applied to that level in a couple of seconds.

The game was much better previous to this patch from a WvW perspective. If i wanted to play an FPS shooter where you can be insta head shot id go play said FPS shooter. I like my MMO’s with a bit of play / counter play and tactics.