Guild Wars 2

I cant express how frustrated and disappointed I am by the new map, features, and changes to wvw since the HoT launch.

Lag has been a problem for such a long time and what do you do but increase the MAP CAP? Are you kidding me, who in the world thought this was the right step, there is nothing but lag, skill lag and dc’s on this map. The notion that this new map is designed to break up blobbing is absolutely laughable. You place incentive on defense and ppt over fights and made capturing stuff harder instead of working towards a balance, what on earth made you think this would make blobbing less of an obvious strategic choice, and since a server can have so much more on a map now, blobbing is even more effective, useful and lag inducing then ever. And of course autoupgrades, the negative effect of it is that it simply encourages more blobbing since stuff upgrades so much faster and easier and who would rather attack a fully upgraded objective when they can ktrain it and keep it paper?

For so long many of us asked you to stop adding/remove pve from wvw, and what do you do. You add more pve to the maps? For what, why? Who goes to wvw for the pve, anybody? Are all the pve maps not enough you think people just have to go into wvw to kill dinosaurs and moas?

Navigation and movement on the map is absolutely terrible, when your trying to rush somewhere to defend, catch up to your group, or run back after dying, and instead your standing there wasting time looking for a way down that wont kill you…oh hey maybe this fall wont kill me…Speed and response time is crucial in wvw, changing the map to what is essentially a giant jumping puzzle turns everything into a frustrating obstacle.

Gimmicks EVERYWHERE, why? Perma stealth in sand? Megalaser that can damage all gates controlled after doing a pve event, on and on. Whoever thought that keeping track of all this gimmicky garbage while trying to fight an even bigger blob was ever a good idea?

Its just even worse then I thought, I was a little hopeful after the last beta test that some changes would be made, but guess not. I am just incredibly disapointed everything I loved about wvw is gone, and I have literally no desire left for it.

I agree. The new maps are so over designed it blows my mind. They are super gimmicky. The fact that all the BLs were dead tonight except for a massive blob on SBI BL was really sad.

Getting from one place to another on the map is pointless unless you are teleporting… really? The mega laser is just ridiculous. It is one giant PvE map with some occasional PvP, which is really sad. My favorite game mode is ruined.

The amount of PvE aspects to the new map is so bad. The community has cried out since launch to make wvw about the pvp and objectives not about gimmicky PvE events that take no skill and just blobs to do.

The lag is worse than ever.

I too am left feeling so dismayed over WvW that I dont even want to play the game mode anymore. Id pay tons of money just have the old BLs back. Or even the orb system (fixed)… but this, this is just kittening bad.

All we need now is for the API to give us detailed statistics on EB kills/captures/etc. so that everyone can keep track of the “EB score,” just play that, and pretend the BLs don’t exist. There are no longer enough people for more than just EB anyway.

Yes. Its dead! I have no problem with the new maps… we will get used to it!

I just find it hard to believe how Anet treats wvw! For me many many others, this game mode is what makes me play this game! I don’t care for gliders and mazes and all that repetitive stuff that is pve!

Auto upgrade was a wrong move!

but worst of all, what to do with my ability points?

not only are there not enough people on the maps, I cant even level my specialization or masteries effectively in wvw… I only play wvw!! I’m stuffed!

I give it 4 weeks. Then I’m off…

tragic, really!

Haegar.7530:

not only are there not enough people on the maps, I cant even level my specialization or masteries effectively in wvw… I only play wvw!! I’m stuffed!

I give it 4 weeks. Then I’m off…

tragic, really!

I find wvw reasonably good for specialisations (edit: changed from masteries coz i is a twat). 2-4 hps per wvw level and with boosters the levels come fast

Decado.9304:

Haegar.7530:

not only are there not enough people on the maps, I cant even level my specialization or masteries effectively in wvw… I only play wvw!! I’m stuffed!

I give it 4 weeks. Then I’m off…

tragic, really!

I find wvw reasonably good for masteries. 2-4 hps per wvw level and with boosters the levels come fast

I agree. But mostly it is infinitely more enjoyable in my opinion.

X T D.6458:

The notion that this new map is designed to break up blobbing is absolutely laughable. You place incentive on defense and ppt over fights and made capturing stuff harder instead of working towards a balance, what on earth made you think this would make blobbing less of an obvious strategic choice, and since a server can have so much more on a map now, blobbing is even more effective, useful and lag inducing then ever. And of course autoupgrades, the negative effect of it is that it simply encourages more blobbing since stuff upgrades so much faster and easier and who would rather attack a fully upgraded objective when they can ktrain it and keep it paper?

Did you ask your crystal ball to know that? I thought maps are all empty. Suddenly everyone knows how big numbers play on this map.

X T D.6458:

Who goes to wvw for the pve, anybody? Are all the pve maps not enough you think people just have to go into wvw to kill dinosaurs and moas?

Please explain me how the heck some PvE mobs shall be able to change anything about how WvW is played. Have you ever noticed their impact on the old borders? They don’t even rally you anymore unless it’s a veteran.
Yes, nobody cares about the mobs but borders would look even more empty without and I’m sure there would again be enaugh people complaining about that.
So basically they don’t disturb anyone but give the map a more round touch.

X T D.6458:

Navigation and movement on the map is absolutely terrible, when your trying to rush somewhere to defend, catch up to your group, or run back after dying, and instead your standing there wasting time looking for a way down that wont kill you…oh hey maybe this fall wont kill me…Speed and response time is crucial in wvw, changing the map to what is essentially a giant jumping puzzle turns everything into a frustrating obstacle.

l2p

Enaugh people will tell you that you can move as quickly as on the old maps.

X T D.6458:

Gimmicks EVERYWHERE, why? Perma stealth in sand? Megalaser that can damage all gates controlled after doing a pve event, on and on. Whoever thought that keeping track of all this gimmicky garbage while trying to fight an even bigger blob was ever a good idea?

The only thing I agree with you. And the lag issue ofc.

TL;DR This just seems like you are searching for anything you don’t like to complain about and make it look bad. No matter how small or skill based it is.

Entenkommando.5208:

Please explain me how the heck some PvE mobs shall be able to change anything about how WvW is played. Have you ever noticed their impact on the old borders? They don’t even rally you anymore unless it’s a veteran.
Yes, nobody cares about the mobs but borders would look even more empty without and I’m sure there would again be enaugh people complaining about that.
So basically they don’t disturb anyone but give the map a more round touch.

If the enemy does the pve event they can blow all the gates on the map open. The pve mobs are also part of the shrine b.s. which is for buffs like immunity to fall dmg. Obviously the constant threat of dying from falling is to provide a reason for doing those events, and vice versa. The pve mobs on the new map are more meaningful than the centaurs or skritts were, but they still serve just as a gimmicky distraction. Unless you really are here to argue that this megalaser bullkitten belongs in WvW.

The notion that this new map is designed to break up blobbing is absolutely laughable.

Yes. Big map = less blob. In your opinion, don’t you think a bigger map would separate people in smaller groups to be able to defend/attack on all fronts? If not then what, a smaller map?

You place incentive on defense and ppt over fights and made capturing stuff harder instead of working towards a balance, what on earth made you think this would make blobbing less of an obvious strategic choice

Yes because auto-upgrades and fortified gates makes capturing last longer and gives the option to at least have time to get there and place some carts or something to defend.

And of course autoupgrades, the negative effect of it is that it simply encourages more blobbing since stuff upgrades so much faster and easier

So paper objectives flipped constantly by a running blob is better than to have fortified gates which discourage people to attack?

You add more pve to the maps? For what, why?

Where exactly have you seen PVE? There are way less mobs now on the map all the real mobs now are just part of an objective. Objective mobs are not PVE mobs.

Navigation and movement on the map is absolutely terrible, when your trying to rush somewhere to defend, catch up to your group, or run back after dying, and instead your standing there wasting time looking for a way down that wont kill you

It called LEARNING THE MAP. Once you know map you know exactly the shortcut to quickly get to an objective.

Whoever thought that keeping track of all this gimmicky garbage while trying to fight an even bigger blob was ever a good idea?

Learn the map.

Wow, I’m baffled of how subjective you can criticize something. Dude forget your emotions for a second and think with your head, objectively. Most of the stuff they implemented is to lower the blobs and make defending/upgrading easier. They made some mistakes like the laser event which is too overpowered and actually helps the winning team, but mostly it’s positive stuff.

Decado.9304:

Haegar.7530:

not only are there not enough people on the maps, I cant even level my specialization or masteries effectively in wvw… I only play wvw!! I’m stuffed!

I give it 4 weeks. Then I’m off…

tragic, really!

I find wvw reasonably good for masteries. 2-4 hps per wvw level and with boosters the levels come fast

WvW doesn’t do anything for Masteries, does it? You can get hero points from WvW levels by exchanging Proofs though.

Its funny, according to the UI we do get regular experience (not just WvW XP) when stuff gets killed, but I don’t know where that experience goes. Just another in the long line of incomplete and poorly conceived WvW mechanics.

Catalin.5341:

You add more pve to the maps? For what, why?

Where exactly have you seen PVE? There are way less mobs now on the map all the real mobs now are just part of an objective. Objective mobs are not PVE mobs.

Are you serious ? The central event is not a kitten.i.n.g. pve event ?!?
And pve event who give advantage to the biggest team…

Yeah now we just see the main ennemy zerg joigning your map 2min before the central event start, they do the event, and after that they just KT all you structures on the map… If they have enough people they just spread on the map because it’s impossible to defend everywhere. And your map is lost in 15min max…

less blobing you say ?

yeah the PvE event should be binned, its annoying as kitten.

Other than that i quit like it, with a few tweaks i think it could be a good map

TBH, I agree so far that WvW has been ruined but not at all by the new map. There is a lot of really neat things in the new map (like large inner and outer keep space) and I’m sure ppl can learn all that stuff about where to go soon enough.

ANET ruined wvw though by buffing condi’s again and again while also removing stability from the game. I think thats the main thing thats ruined wvw.

Some of the things they did seem to work against each other. Make the map bigger to spread people in out. Make stuff harder to capture to give people time to defend, making it harder for small teams to capture. Those two changes work against each other.

I suppose you could make the argument once you blob down the main pve event small teams can spread out to cap everything fairly fast, but I’m not sure that is a good thing.

I agree with you in almost what you posted. But web already know it. Eotm 2.0 empty era has begun.
The worst part is that they don’t get it, so don’t expect changes.

The new map is amazing I find, last night I had a blast, the fights were much more varied than on the old map.

However it would require 3 things to be perfect:
1- full maps, a better server tier system (merge) or removal of the duplicated maps
2- waypoints in towers and keeps as soon as you capture them
3- people giving it a chance

Xillllix.3485:

2- waypoints in towers and keeps as soon as you capture them

How would that help anything? The WP change is one of the biggest problems with the new system.

People (roamers especially) would work their butts off to bust WP’ed keeps, and spend hours preventing things from getting WP’s. It’s no longer worth the effort it takes to bust a defended T3 keep since they will get their wp back as soon as they flip it.

The side keeps should get their wp’s back but they should only get them at T3, and upgrades need to be manually started and dependent on supply. The only thing they should have changed about upgrades was the gold cost should have been changed to badges or karma.

Xillllix.3485:

The new map is amazing I find, last night I had a blast, the fights were much more varied than on the old map.

However it would require 3 things to be perfect:
1- full maps, a better server tier system (merge) or removal of the duplicated maps
2- waypoints in towers and keeps as soon as you capture them
3- people giving it a chance

About your number 2, IMO that would be just for the guild who claimed it and later upgrade for every one if they want, the auto upgrades and the central weapon (easy event btw) should go…..

Well but at the end i think players are so cheap they just want a place to play their gimmick build on WvW becouse does not work on spvp.

So here goes more stuff that people would hate becouse that would give them something to add effort:

Add more importance to towers and we need more mechanics added to control terrain, since this map is really huge, if we had more stuff to destroy, cap, and create would generate more fights and more action to that mode:
- Add mines/plantation spawns where guilds can extract raw materials for 1h/2h directly to Guild stash, imagine 1 of X material / plantation for every 10/15 minutes, this camps/mines could also be taken over by the enemy for the restant time.

-Open field Guild encampment, that would turn the control of X part of the map to color of server A sayign there is a guild group, and we are here to stay, adding a waypoint that could be used only from those guild members with a certain CD in respawn time to use that waypoint, this accampent would provide siege supply and minor boost while in X range of towers, a boost like at least would provide more defense to siege weapons and X% faster recharge, also increase range to trebs.

Just a few ideias that would make players hate more WvW.

sorry the bad english

Sich.7103:

Are you serious ? The central event is not a kitten.i.n.g. pve event ?!?
And pve event who give advantage to the biggest team…

In a PvE zone that event would be a PvE event, in a PvP area like WvW it is a PvP event, it is in effect a sort of carry the flag event, is similar to PvP events in other games (PvP rifts, in Rift for example).

You want to know the real problem with it, the playerbase, as far as PvP game modes go the WvW playerbase is absolutely the least “PvP” I have encountered, packed full of zerging PvE players (be it zone blobs or the dellusional guild raids), in a game with actual real open world PvP, in either a PvP MMO or with PvP servers, where the playerbase are actually interested in PvP, a “PvE” event in that vein would be fine.

You can’t do much about a scrub playerbase. (also not helped by a game mode that is basically so poorly designed it isn’t really functional as a ‘competition’)

killing dinosaur to get some power core is really not a pvp event… And it’s just a way to help the strongest team to KT the map.

Sich.7103:

killing dinosaur to get some power core is really not a pvp event…

Of course it is a PvP event, objectives are common things in PvP, the dinosaurs / carrying the gear back are just there to focus fights, for one group of players to stop the other from completing the event, then you have your PvP, the same sort of events are common in other PvP formats, even in this game, go look at tPvP, at Foefire and the lord, it is there to add an extra layer of strategy and to act as an objective to initate a fight between opposing teams.

Sich.7103:

And it’s just a way to help the strongest team to KT the map.

Like I said "You want to know the real problem with it, the playerbase, as far as PvP game modes go the WvW playerbase is absolutely the least “PvP” I have encountered, packed full of zerging PvE players ", these sort of “PvE” events work fine in PvP MMOs or MMOs with seperate PvP & PvE servers.

zinkz.7045:

Sich.7103:

Are you serious ? The central event is not a kitten.i.n.g. pve event ?!?
And pve event who give advantage to the biggest team…

In a PvE zone that event would be a PvE event, in a PvP area like WvW it is a PvP event, it is in effect a sort of carry the flag event, is similar to PvP events in other games (PvP rifts, in Rift for example).

You want to know the real problem with it, the playerbase, as far as PvP game modes go the WvW playerbase is absolutely the least “PvP” I have encountered, packed full of zerging PvE players (be it zone blobs or the dellusional guild raids), in a game with actual real open world PvP, in either a PvP MMO or with PvP servers, where the playerbase are actually interested in PvP, a “PvE” event in that vein would be fine.

You can’t do much about a scrub playerbase. (also not helped by a game mode that is basically so poorly designed it isn’t really functional as a ‘competition’)

In any mmo I have ever played this is the case. As a disclaimer I haven’t played to many mmo focused on wvw/pvp so maybe it is different in them. But for the most part the average joe wants to win and get loot. Understandable. So they chase the winning side. Over stacking winning sides and transferring/rerolling to where ever they need to be to make things fast and easy.

Pretty standard mmo practices across the board.

Wryscher.1432:

In any mmo I have ever played this is the case. As a disclaimer I haven’t played to many mmo focused on wvw/pvp so maybe it is different in them. But for the most part the average joe wants to win and get loot. Understandable. So they chase the winning side. Over stacking winning sides and transferring/rerolling to where ever they need to be to make things fast and easy.

Pretty standard mmo practices across the board.

Overstacking / rerolling on one faction yes, other than that not the same at all.

To take a couple of differences, in your average MMO, your average joe, will go on a PvE server (and will completely avoid PvP focused MMOs), as a generalisation people that opt to go on a PvP server (which is the ‘playerbase’ I am comparing to) in a typical MMO, actually want to PvP, where as many WvW players basically don’t, they want to zerg/blob it up, which barely constitutes PvP and outside of the security blanket and anonymity of the zerg/blob will avoid any actual PvP.

As for loot, I’ve never played a game where “PvP” players go on about loot as much as in WvW, I’ve played games with full player loot where people make less fuss, it speaks volumes about the playerbase, it is very “PvE”.

I’ve have never ever played an MMO where so many people just run / avoid even fights (both small scale and large scale), the WvW playerbase is by far the least “PvP” playerbase of any PvP MMO / PvP server, I have ever encountered.

zinkz.7045:

Wryscher.1432:

In any mmo I have ever played this is the case. As a disclaimer I haven’t played to many mmo focused on wvw/pvp so maybe it is different in them. But for the most part the average joe wants to win and get loot. Understandable. So they chase the winning side. Over stacking winning sides and transferring/rerolling to where ever they need to be to make things fast and easy.

Pretty standard mmo practices across the board.

Overstacking / rerolling on one faction yes, other than that not the same at all.

To take a couple of differences, in your average MMO, your average joe, will go on a PvE server (and will completely avoid PvP focused MMOs), as a generalisation people that opt to go on a PvP server (which is what I am comparing to in an average MMO) in a typical MMO, actually want to PvP, where as many WvW players basically don’t, they want to zerg/blob it up, which barely constitutes PvP and outside of the security blanket and anonymity of the zerg/blob will avoid any actual PvP.

As for loot, I’ve never played a game where “PvP” players go on about loot as much as in WvW, I’ve played games with full player loot where people make less fuss, it speaks volumes about the playerbase, it is very “PvE”.

I’ve have never ever played an MMO where so many people just run / avoid even fights (both small scale and large scale), the WvW playerbase is by far the least “PvP” playerbase of any PvP MMO / PvP server, I have ever encountered.

I think the difference is that most mmos have a limit. For example a set of pvp gear or a unique mini pet reward. Once you get your tokens or what ever, you are pretty much done with the loot side of things. So the people that stay and continue to play are the ones that want to.

Here there really is no end to the loot. So while in most mmos you have a month or so of the pvers chasing loot, they then stop when there is no carrot. Here there is always that carrot. More ectos, more pink junk, another precursor.

Dano.5298:

TBH, I agree so far that WvW has been ruined but not at all by the new map. There is a lot of really neat things in the new map (like large inner and outer keep space) and I’m sure ppl can learn all that stuff about where to go soon enough.

ANET ruined wvw though by buffing condi’s again and again while also removing stability from the game. I think thats the main thing thats ruined wvw.

Yea the condi buffs/stab nerfs did hurt the quality of gameplay a lot. The stab nerfs, even the complete imbalance of the changes heck I could live with that, its the new pirateship meta that made things so terribly uneven for fights.

X T D.6458:

Dano.5298:

TBH, I agree so far that WvW has been ruined but not at all by the new map. There is a lot of really neat things in the new map (like large inner and outer keep space) and I’m sure ppl can learn all that stuff about where to go soon enough.

ANET ruined wvw though by buffing condi’s again and again while also removing stability from the game. I think thats the main thing thats ruined wvw.

Yea the condi buffs/stab nerfs did hurt the quality of gameplay a lot. The stab nerfs, even the complete imbalance of the changes heck I could live with that, its the new pirateship meta that made things so terribly uneven for fights.

If one group has more players, all it means is they have more CCs and therefore a gigantic advantage. Anet is tremendously bad at balancing population so its a double whammy for sure. And yeah I can’t say I’ve heard of a single person who enjoys the pirate ship meta over the hammer train. Some people have said that stab was OP before but I don’t believe anyone prefers a “real” pirateshup battle which is just when two groups slap each other until they get bored and wonder off.

Dano.5298:

X T D.6458:

Dano.5298:

TBH, I agree so far that WvW has been ruined but not at all by the new map. There is a lot of really neat things in the new map (like large inner and outer keep space) and I’m sure ppl can learn all that stuff about where to go soon enough.

ANET ruined wvw though by buffing condi’s again and again while also removing stability from the game. I think thats the main thing thats ruined wvw.

Yea the condi buffs/stab nerfs did hurt the quality of gameplay a lot. The stab nerfs, even the complete imbalance of the changes heck I could live with that, its the new pirateship meta that made things so terribly uneven for fights.

If one group has more players, all it means is they have more CCs and therefore a gigantic advantage. Anet is tremendously bad at balancing population so its a double whammy for sure. And yeah I can’t say I’ve heard of a single person who enjoys the pirate ship meta over the hammer train. Some people have said that stab was OP before but I don’t believe anyone prefers a “real” pirateshup battle which is just when two groups slap each other until they get bored and wonder off.

Condis/CC’s need a complete rework in my personal opinion, condis are a giant can of worms. What bothers me the most about those changes is just how awful playing a frontline has become, which I used to play regularly, but now….forget about it. The insane damage/dps, tons of spammable cc and condis. Its just no fun anymore. Like I said I can live with the stab changes, and Im not ignorant as to why they needed to change it, what bothers me is there was no counter balance regarding cc’s. Basically what that did was reward more blobbing over skill, so whoever spams the most cc and ranged aoe will win.