Guild Wars 2

Yet again ANeT you have made another facerolling, karma training, one server dominating week for the silver league servers. I mean come on 7/11/13, 8/10/12, and 9/14/15. You can already see the results starting to come forth in the scoring.

On our server it started out good, but then the beast woke up and the hordes arrived. I’m sure the higher ranked server in these match-ups hates this just as much as we do.

< seksi from [WAR]

I rolled a new account on FA to see what it’s like to not be pooped on for a week in WvW. But, I suppose I did just what ANet wanted me to. I spent more money to have a better gaming experience and they didn’t have to fix anything. GG

Its so ridiculous nothing is being done about this. We were ticking 650 tonight. A FEW HOURS AFTER RESET. We have waypoints in enemy borderlands already, and everything fortified.
WINNING that bad is not fun.
Loosing is not fun.
It makes everyone just hate playing WvW.

Right? I don’t care about winning or losing a given matchup, I’d just like to have a bit of fun along the way. I certainly don’t want HoD matched up against the bottom 2 servers either, there’s no point to log if it’s an effortless roflstomp.

Don’t worry, they are having internal discussions on some small tweaks we may see in 2017.

zen.6091:

Don’t worry, they are having internal discussions on some small tweaks we may see in 2017.

But they can’t tell us about them…not even a hint.

But what can they do?
Force active servers to become less active?
Force people to transfer to other servers?

lordkrall.7241:

But what can they do?
Force active servers to become less active?
Force people to transfer to other servers?

Well, for a start, don’t do these matchups – especially the IOJ vs Mag vs NSP one, since it’s the 2nd straight week these servers are up against each other:

7th Dragonbrand
11th Stormbluff Isle
13th Devona’s Rest

8th Isle of Janthir
12th Maguuma
10th Northern Shiverpeaks

9th Crystal Desert
14th Henge of Denravi
15th Borlis Pass

This week should have been 7th vs 8th vs 9th, 10th vs 11th vs 12th, and, ’natch, 13th vs 14th vs 15th.

Now, we can’t ALWAYS have that structure, but it’s better than getting population swamped week after week.

Third forum account hype!

But in all reality we left CD last night because this matchup was straight out boring. Im still on CD for a little bit trying to find some people I know from HoD but for the most part this matchup was just a stupid roll. We rolled around 200 to 300 glicko below us. Isn’t that like a 1% chance or some kitten.

I love how people complain that they have to face the same matchups and complain when they get different matchups…

Jeknar.6184:

I love how people complain that they have to face the same matchups and complain when they get different matchups…

Seriously? Who’s complained about different matchups?

lordkrall.7241:

But what can they do?
Force active servers to become less active?
Force people to transfer to other servers?

It might come down to a forced transfer of players to different servers. Nothing else seems to work.

Different match-ups are not the same as facerolling match-ups. Had the spread been closer between the servers it wouldn’t have been the same. But 9 vs 14 and 15 is ridiculous. As well as the other two match-ups. Variety vs stupid match-ups is what this is about.

Kanebrake.6192:

It might come down to a forced transfer of players to different servers. Nothing else seems to work.

And is that really a solution at all?
Basically force people to servers they do not want to join. Especially bad for those that have actually spent gems to transfer to a specific server in the first place.

Jeknar.6184:

I love how people complain that they have to face the same matchups and complain when they get different matchups…

Balance and variety aren’t mutually exclusive. Sadly, the current WvW system gives us one at the expense of the other. The ideal system would give us different matchups each week without any huge blowouts.

mango.9267:

Balance and variety aren’t mutually exclusive. Sadly, the current WvW system gives us one at the expense of the other. The ideal system would give us different matchups each week without any huge blowouts.

But how would that ideal system actually work?

lordkrall.7241:

Kanebrake.6192:

It might come down to a forced transfer of players to different servers. Nothing else seems to work.

And is that really a solution at all?
Basically force people to servers they do not want to join. Especially bad for those that have actually spent gems to transfer to a specific server in the first place.

It would break apart the stacking and redistribute the playerbase among the servers. Is it an ideal solution? Not at all but we’re at a point now where there aren’t a lot of viable options.

I think all the wvw problems are well past the point of brainstorming and discussion. Anet needs to either do something about it or just kill it off. Because right now it’s just a crippled animal lying in the road.

It would indeed break apart stacking (for a while, unless they also removed the ability to transfer to other servers), but it might also end up basically destroying WvW completely.

Why would people bother fighting for and working together with a server if ArenaNet could just suddenly decide to force you into another server instead?

But even the disparity between 13 and 14 is immense. DR has coverage that HoD can’t possibly match and they beat us by 120k+ week in week out. BP has almost been a no-show for a while. The 13v14v15 match up is basically a foregone conclusion.

Close the bottom X number of servers to be pve only and have the rest open to wvw based on population data. How else could populations be evened out?

Funny,

I remember a long time ago, people were complaining about facing the same competition over and over.

Your either playing teams where one team will faceroll or you play the same servers over and over again.

You choose.
A long time ago people chose to play different people.
Now you guys want to go back to the old way of facing same server again, well that’s what it seems like.

Be thankful your not playing against Jade Quarry, ‘Your will will be broken’ if you do. We are known to make other servers WvW population dwindle by complete domination of them through use of tactics and strategies equal to Sun Tzu himself.

All of you are lucky the developers decided not to show the server names on EotM, this is where we are extremely dominate in right now, that map relies heavily on strategy and tactics, perfect for Jade Quarry to show its true colors.

lordkrall.7241:

It would indeed break apart stacking (for a while, unless they also removed the ability to transfer to other servers), but it might also end up basically destroying WvW completely.

Why would people bother fighting for and working together with a server if ArenaNet could just suddenly decide to force you into another server instead?

People will go and play and fight for whatever team they are on at that time.

Kanebrake.6192:

People will go and play and fight for whatever team they are on at that time.

Except that that is not really how it works. People get to know each other while playing WvW. If you have spent months or even years playing with the same group of people on the same server and then suddenly you are forced to start playing with a completely other group of people on a completely different server, people will not just “go and play and fight”.

Might be a bad idea, not sure. But what if the top server is paired/allied with the bottom server? So, 1 and 24th vs 2 and 23rd vs 3 and 22nd (and so on).

Fewer matches, but might help with balancing. Not sure, because we don’t have server population numbers (and, it would help, the average % of players on those servers who are active in WvW per week). But this could alleviate certain discrepancies and population disparity. Again, without hard numbers, hard to say.

uberkingkong.8041:

Be thankful your not playing against Jade Quarry, ‘Your will will be broken’ if you do. We are known to make other servers WvW population dwindle by complete domination of them through use of tactics and strategies equal to Sun Tzu himself.

Yeah, we all see how Blackgate population dwindle before the almighty JQQ… Such a weak troll…

Well the players can collectively do something “themselves” if they really want to.

Organize something offline where we find out what guilds mainly play in what time slots and how many per guild. Then collectively organize “ourselves” to populate a couple of tiers accordingly.

I honestly think if all the WvW’ers were clustered into a few servers to populate the maps with 24/7 coverage, we’d have enough to maybe fill up 2 tiers.

The question is, why don’t players just do this already? It would be far easier to get GvG going. Sure there will be some players that like where they are because they prefer small group fights instead.

Nothing stopping anyone from doing this, and Anet really has their hands tied unless they abandon the “server vs server” idea and turn it into faction vs faction or guild vs guild (whatever you want to call it).

Someone with some time on their hands maybe should give this a go. Find out exactly how many guilds are currently active with numbers and what time slot, then go from there.

Complaining about about match-ups is pretty much futile. In any given match-up putting a server 1 up or 1 down can be the difference in them destroying or getting destroyed.

uberkingkong.8041:

All of you are lucky the developers decided not to show the server names on EotM, this is where we are extremely dominate in right now, that map relies heavily on strategy and tactics, perfect for Jade Quarry to show its true colors.

hahahahaha

oh man, so good

I think they should actually add another server to the mix. 4 servers instead of 3. That would make things interesting.

I will be bold and say the transfers are starting to break silver ties. There goes the slight balance and variety that many liked.

We have two servers, BP and HoD, which doesn’t have coverage to compete with DR and yet would probably crush GoM. At the top, we have DB, they had more players and coverage in the past but still the matches weren’t complete roflstomps as they are now, they were competitive. So that makes DB as a tier 2.5 server, which doesn’t fit with the tier 3 population.

So we have 2 servers isolated in the bottom, which can compete among themselves but a 3rd will ruin and have an overstacked server on top which will crush any other they are matched up against.

This is why I hardly play GW2 anymore. WvW is endgame content, except it’s stagnant and completely unbalanced. Anet can be as secretive as it wants, but they have failed to improve WvW in anything resembling a timely manner. As a result, they have bleed customers/players who want a competitive WvW endgame. Perhaps Anet is afraid that the changes they need to make will cause players to leave. Caution doesn’t seem to be working in Anet’s favor.

Ah yes, the thrill of waking up to your entire BL and EBG keep waypointed by an enemy server, and hoards of everything condi roaming with siege disablers ready to call in a zerg if you do have the audacity to attempt a recap with pugs.

These matchups may as well be called don’t play our game for a week, or transfer to a server that can roflstomp every week with no danger of moving up a tier because the ratings are so messed up. Most of the NA silver tier matchups are pretty much a disgrace at this point.

It would be fun to see during the wvwvw experiment period whether teams of servers based on population help stop the imbalances.

The populations don’t work out well with free transfers, and costly transfers aren’t helping replace people from lower tier servers who stop playing wvwvw or the game. So it’d be fun to see what happens if teams were made from groups of servers from kitten, etcetc based on participation and points. The hard part would be coordinating teamspeak and other stuff among the other servers.

That or some servers need merged. We have the same number from launch, and since servers only count for wvwvw, there’s no need to have so many when queues are empty even on T1.

They’d need to find a way to keep it interesting and meaningful per server – for instance, ranking each server based on their relative performance. You could imagine this would make for some hilarious royal rumble dynamics as former allies turn on each other as they are pitted against each other for first.

zen.6091:

Ah yes, the thrill of waking up to your entire BL and EBG keep waypointed by an enemy server, and hoards of everything condi roaming with siege disablers ready to call in a zerg if you do have the audacity to attempt a recap with pugs.

These matchups may as well be called don’t play our game for a week, or transfer to a server that can roflstomp every week with no danger of moving up a tier because the ratings are so messed up. Most of the NA silver tier matchups are pretty much a disgrace at this point.

Funny, I didn’t see anyone from DR complaining when they were rolling over HoD and BP. It seems people are only upset when their server is getting rolled over, not when their server is doing the rolling.

IMadeAWall.6239:

Third forum account hype!

But in all reality we left CD last night because this matchup was straight out boring. Im still on CD for a little bit trying to find some people I know from HoD but for the most part this matchup was just a stupid roll. We rolled around 200 to 300 glicko below us. Isn’t that like a 1% chance or some kitten.

Most of Hod will be doing the LS and PVE stuff anyway. There are very few WvW only players left on HoD.

Consider it a win by default.

Some days it seems they ANet cares, and others you’re getting rolfstomped by thirty man zergs.

The stomping seems to be winning.

azyume.6321:

I will be bold and say the transfers are starting to break silver ties. There goes the slight balance and variety that many liked.

We have two servers, BP and HoD, which doesn’t have coverage to compete with DR and yet would probably crush GoM. At the top, we have DB, they had more players and coverage in the past but still the matches weren’t complete roflstomps as they are now, they were competitive. So that makes DB as a tier 2.5 server, which doesn’t fit with the tier 3 population.

So we have 2 servers isolated in the bottom, which can compete among themselves but a 3rd will ruin and have an overstacked server on top which will crush any other they are matched up against.

Well-said. The only possible change we might be seeing is that Mag is probably going to drop to 13 on Friday, and given their performance over the last couple months might actually make a proper 13-14-15 matchup. Hard to tell, though, until we actually play them.

That is, you know, if Anet actually matches us together instead of throwing a friggin’ rank 9 server at us.

Tyeme.6589:

Funny, I didn’t see anyone from DR complaining when they were rolling over HoD and BP. It seems people are only upset when their server is getting rolled over, not when their server is doing the rolling.

Believe me, my eyes were rolling when BP’s EBG keep was waypointed a few times during that matchup as well. The last matchup I was excited about was IoJ / SBI / DR.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Well-said. The only possible change we might be seeing is that Mag is probably going to drop to 13 on Friday, and given their performance over the last couple months might actually make a proper 13-14-15 matchup. Hard to tell, though, until we actually play them.

That is, you know, if Anet actually matches us together instead of throwing a friggin’ rank 9 server at us.

Having fought Mag for the past two weeks and BP/HoD shortly before that, I think Mag’s population is comparable to that of BP and HoD. If Mag drops to T5, you could probably get a nice, balanced tier there.

The Silver tiers should probably be DB/IoJ/CD, NSP/DR/SBI, and Mag/HoD/BP.

IMHO, matchups should always be 1v2v3, 4v5v6, …. , 22v23v24. If a server dominates a tier (for eg. beat the rest by 100k+) then they should be moved up a tier for a week or two to see how they perform in the upper tier while adjusting their glicko accordingly.

Only negative side to this, as is the case often with servers, is that there might be 4 server that belongs in a particular tier. It happened pre season 3 when we had like 4-5 servers of relatively equal strengths.

The most obvious solution would be to turn base WvW into a RvBvG system like EotM does, although that would definitely upset players for whom server pride is a big issue.

who says you need to force people to transfer make transfer to the bottom server in a line up free. and players in the bottom 3 servers gain a few bonuses every week like a free tome 1 gold 1 WvW experience booster. 200 badges. 1 laurial people will transfer to other servers specifically for the sake of a small increase in your alts progression speed

I’m just going to go ahead and say it: I blame Anet directly for these matchups. The RNG chances of just one of these matchups occurring was less than 4%. The RNG chances of all 3? We’re looking at about the same chance as getting a precursor out of the forge.

The matches were manually fixed. So, yeah, eff you Anet. I don’t know what you were planning, or what you thought to accomplish, but go to hell.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

I’m just going to go ahead and say it: I blame Anet directly for these matchups. The RNG chances of just one of these matchups occurring was less than 4%. The RNG chances of all 3? We’re looking at about the same chance as getting a precursor out of the forge.

The matches were manually fixed. So, yeah, eff you Anet. I don’t know what you were planning, or what you thought to accomplish, but go to hell.

You contradict yourself when you say the chances of it’s happening are about the same of getting a precursor on the forge and then saying the matches were manually fixed… Because i know quite a few people that got precursors from the forge (one of them got 9 so far).

Zaxares.5419:

The most obvious solution would be to turn base WvW into a RvBvG system like EotM does, although that would definitely upset players for whom server pride is a big issue.

This would be the worst thing Anet could do. There are several reasons why. None of which have to do with Server pride. The biggest ones would be where to fit all the players. You can’t expect to fit all the players from every server into four maps.

So do we add overflows like EoTM? Where no one cares about anything because you never know when your overflow will simply disappear?

And there is no organization because you never know who your allies will be from week too week, so you don’t want to share you TS information to get everyone in the same group.

There are alot of good ideas on how to save WvW. Following the EoTM style isn’t one of them.

Jeknar.6184:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

I’m just going to go ahead and say it: I blame Anet directly for these matchups. The RNG chances of just one of these matchups occurring was less than 4%. The RNG chances of all 3? We’re looking at about the same chance as getting a precursor out of the forge.

The matches were manually fixed. So, yeah, eff you Anet. I don’t know what you were planning, or what you thought to accomplish, but go to hell.

You contradict yourself when you say the chances of it’s happening are about the same of getting a precursor on the forge and then saying the matches were manually fixed… Because i know quite a few people that got precursors from the forge (one of them got 9 so far).

The chances of getting a precursor using 4 exotics from the forge is 0.07% .. hence why I’m flat out saying that the matches were fixed. The RNG for these matches is rolled once per week. This isn’t like dumping 100 greatswords into the forge at once. Do you understand now? The chance being as low as it is, I’m calling them out for fixing the matches. One? Okay, I can understand. All 3? Nope.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Well the players can collectively do something “themselves” if they really want to.

Organize something offline where we find out what guilds mainly play in what time slots and how many per guild. Then collectively organize “ourselves” to populate a couple of tiers accordingly.

Some guilds already attempt to do this.

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

Jeknar.6184:

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

I’m just going to go ahead and say it: I blame Anet directly for these matchups. The RNG chances of just one of these matchups occurring was less than 4%. The RNG chances of all 3? We’re looking at about the same chance as getting a precursor out of the forge.

The matches were manually fixed. So, yeah, eff you Anet. I don’t know what you were planning, or what you thought to accomplish, but go to hell.

You contradict yourself when you say the chances of it’s happening are about the same of getting a precursor on the forge and then saying the matches were manually fixed… Because i know quite a few people that got precursors from the forge (one of them got 9 so far).

The chances of getting a precursor using 4 exotics from the forge is 0.07% .. hence why I’m flat out saying that the matches were fixed. The RNG for these matches is rolled once per week. This isn’t like dumping 100 greatswords into the forge at once. Do you understand now? The chance being as low as it is, I’m calling them out for fixing the matches. One? Okay, I can understand. All 3? Nope.

First, the probabilities of each of these rolls aren’t independent of one another, so the probability of three mis-matched rolls isn’t as low as you suggest. Second, we don’t know if Anet has adjusted the Glicko algorithm to allow greater match-up variety. Both of these combined, it’s a leap to accuse Anet of match fixing.

EDITED
I’m not sure how most feel about this, but what if we just did WvWvW server mergers? I don’t know how many merges would be acceptable to the general masses but I think that would be an.. idea, a solution, clearly, as is, WvWvW is not fun, for me definitely. I only get on because I feel needed. I am doing this because I don’t want Gw2 WvWvW, the only thing I do, to die, which it is. Merge WvWvW servers until there are.. I dunno, but I’m thinking 6 servers, for WvW(vW) and PvE. Remove queues, or make the limit much, much, much, larger.

OR

Remove EOTM (Edge of the Mists) in lower tiered servers.
Why?
Well, I get on WvWvW and see less than 30 people in Eternal Battlegrounds pretty much 24/7, 0 people are on in my BL at all times. We lose, every week. Because of coverage, we have kitten good players, proof being, anyone ever fight against DUI? Not a member, but an admirer. But we have so few people. In EOTM I see 3x the numbers I would normally see in WvWvW. To compensate for the casuals and karma farmers, increase the WvWvW rewards. Make it more rewarding, because as is, I am losing so much gold and will go broke at this rate, because of upgrading. 110 g to 35 g in 3 weeks. Full time WvWvWer. Not entirely sure how EOTM works.

Just a few ideas of mine, I know this probably doesn’t seem viable but I want to get feedback and refine my solutions until this is presentable. Then I’ll try to get the attention of Anet and try to help fix WvWvW and get it out of this horrendous, almost unplayable, state.

I realize that there would only be 2 match ups at a time, which does not appeal and concerns me. As I have said in other posts, how about this. Instead of WvWvW, WvW, 1v1. As it has been at launch and as it is in meta, it’s a 2v1. Example ; Green attacks Blue Side, Red sees orange swords at Dane choke point, Red assumes Green has their zerg there busy with Blue’s and takes a fully upgraded Green tower. Honestly, WvWvW is more exciting in theory than WvW, but it is far less rewarding in terms of quality. So 3 match ups at a time as it is now with WvWvW, but instead it would be WvW. They would have to make serious changes to the map, but I think WvW(vW) is in serious need for map updating anyway and really, just a change in scenery in the very least, BL’s as well as Eternal Battlegrounds.

I have no issues with facing the same server over and over if we don’t deserve to fight the higher tiers, so long as it is balanced. Fighting a new server offers no variety anyway, as it is now. It’s either stomp, or be stomped as is.

To decide on which servers to merge with the other, it must balance out quantity and quality. Quantity meaning, numbers in estimate, merge the servers to get a certain amount of players in estimate, evenly across all of the merged servers. Quality meaning, factoring in guilds, mainly WvWvW guilds, and very large guilds, analyzing individual statistics and contributions in WvWvW and PvE. Do this for a healthy balance when merged, don’t do this and randomly merge servers, Anet might as well shut down the servers if they randomly merge two servers together, in my opinion. But I don’t want to give them ideas on stopping Gw2 production, so here is an example, DO NOT, merge two gold tiered WvWvW servers together.

The problem is that the disparity between tiers has only increased since the release of the game — the few anomalies caused by massive bandwagons and the exodus from particular servers aside.

They dug the grave of WvW very early in the game when they allowed free transfers to go on, and on, and on, seemingly forever. There are repercussions when you devise a realm vs realm game and then proceed to allow people to switch realms at will.

The only solutions require drastic measures that Anet seems unwilling to consider.

They should really remove EotM entirely. I know some people enjoy it because it is easy and provides massive karma/loot. But it really adds nothing to the game at this point and does slightly detract from the numbers in WvW.

Rewards in WvW need a BIG boost, to give people more incentive to try it out and play it more frequently. They didn’t seem to have any problem giving people disproportionate rewards for EotM, so I am not sure why it is such a big deal to bump up the WvW rewards.

Megaservers should be removed, or at the very least, servers should be given a megaserver-free city or zone to interact in. The whole megaserver thing is too entrenched now, so it isn’t going to accomplish anything to ask them to remove it. But it should be at least possible to allow servers to have a ‘home’ city or base in PvE to recruit and organize players. Megaservers chipped away at the glue that was helping to hold some server communities together.

If all of these things were done, then WvW would start to recover . . a little bit. Nothing is going to bring back the old days of the game mode unless they do some sort of major new content/upgrade/overhaul that draws back the interest of the legions of people who have quit.

Xyppi.8061:

I know most are against this but what if we just did WvWvW server mergers? I don’t know how many merges would be acceptable to the general masses but I think that would be an.. idea, a solution, clearly, as is, WvWvW is not fun, for me definitely. I only get on because I feel needed. I am doing this because I don’t want Gw2 WvWvW, the only thing I do, to die, which it is. Merge WvWvW servers until there are.. I dunno, but I’m thinking 3 servers. Yes, just 3 huge servers. Remove queues, or make the limit much, much, much, larger.

OR

Remove EOTM (Edge of the Mists) in lower tiered servers.
Why?
Well, I get on WvWvW and see less than 30 people in Eternal Battlegrounds pretty much 24/7, 0 people are on in my BL at all times. We lose, every week. Because of coverage, we have kitten good players, proof being, anyone ever fight against DUI? Not a member, but an admirer. But we have so few people. In EOTM I see 3x the numbers I would normally see in WvWvW. To compensate for the casuals and karma farmers, increase the WvWvW rewards. Make it more rewarding, because as is, I am losing so much gold and will go broke at this rate, because of upgrading. 110 g to 35 g in 3 weeks. Full time WvWvWer. Not entirely sure how EOTM works.

Just a few ideas of mine, I know this probably doesn’t seem viable but I want to get feedback and refine my solutions until this is presentable. Then I’ll try to get the attention of Anet and try to help fix WvWvW and get it out of this horrendous, almost unplayable, state.

I’ve been saying that for a long time. Server merge is the easiest and more realistic attempt of a solution by far.

Merge the #1 with #24, #2 with #23, and so on. Merge their names as well.

Kaineng Coast, Blackgate Crossing, etc.

It doens’t even need to be a permanent thing, we could just test it and see how it goes. If players end up really hating it or the matches got even worse than they are now, they could just undo it.

There’s nothing to lose.

Gold league servers don’t need more numbers. Why should merge bottom with top? Also, merging servers that are active pretty much only during NA prime time will accomplish exactly what? Queue? I am sure the ones in bronze don’t want to be stuck in a queue for who knows for how long. If they did, would have transfered with the others that had done it so long ago.

Once you can get past this drawback, too many players on during the same time and limited slots, then perhaps can take merges into consideration. I mean, if we disregard the sense of community, the will of players to solo roam and have small scale fights.

Transfers were the problem and still are the problem and also will be the problem with server merge. There is absolutely nothing stopping players from stacking in one server. That’s another thing that needs to be revalued before even thinking about merging.