I am strongly in favor of building in counters to Stealth, but these should be player abilities and limited to certain professions. Just like how f.e. Booncounter isnt readily available to all professions. But atleast it exists, unlike Stealth which has no counter.
But a foodbuff like this, thats taking it to the other extreme…
edit: ofc, when its that cheap, i guess every roamer would run it
Not really. You would lose the 40% condition reduction food which renders necros and engys useless.
I run both melandru and the food for a 60% condi reduc and with breaking immobilize abilities I rarely have trouble with those classes. And I’m a warrior..imagine what the non-broken classes can do to necro engy.
Anti stealth food is not OP . I don’t see why we should screw over condi necros and engys while not doing anything for stealth.
As for food balancing the class/builds..yea..that’s the purpose of it in wvw after making anet some cash.
edit: ofc, when its that cheap, i guess every roamer would run it
Not really. You would lose the 40% condition reduction food which renders necros and engys useless.
I run both melandru and the food for a 60% condi reduc and with breaking immobilize abilities I rarely have trouble with those classes. And I’m a warrior..imagine what the non-broken classes can do to necro engy.
Anti stealth food is not OP . I don’t see why we should screw over condi necros and engys while not doing anything for stealth.
As for food balancing the class/builds..yea..that’s the purpose of it in wvw after making anet some cash.
ugh, dont even get me started on this crap >.<
that food should be nerfed into the ground and capped and whoever brought -40cond.duration-food in the game should be fired.
Or at least they should introduce a food that gives uncleansable perma-protection, to make things even….
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
Gunnar’s Hold
I understand the sentiment, but introducing even more broken foodbuffs isnt a solution. It’ll just screw over another profession completely. And if we keep going down that route, we’ll end up with foodbuffs that screw over every profession. And the outcome of a fight will be dictated by who eats the right food.
Twitchy gameplay will merely be, who can consume the right food in the middle of a fight to counter the other guy better.
-40% cond duration food needs to be completely nerfed, infact id opt flat out removed, same for all runes. Last i checked there wasnt any -crit dmg food/runes. Or anything that offers a permanent, passive, reduction of such a caliber to direct damage. (Dont even dare mentioning protection, its not permanent, requires player input and can be removed/stolen. -% cond. dur. cannot)
It is not a mechanic that makes it easier for thieves or mesmers easier to kill players. It creates a element of surprise or a ability to retreat. Because of this fact alone it is not worthy of a nerf. Furthermore it is a core mechanic for a thief. Mesmers vail even outdoes the theifs stealth for WvW.
Not only that your cost is too low and duration is too long even if it was a idea that did not break a core mechanic and strategy of the game.
I’m interested in buying a few of them consumables. Can they be crafted too? I can’t wait to see thieves play hide and seek when I can see them all the time. Hmm… Maybe this will kill the class completely?
this is a stupid idea… if you remove stealth via food, you should also remove weapons to warriors, boons to guardians and so on.
this is just dumb.
Kind of like taking away Necro and Engie’s ability to put conditions on players… oh wait… melandru+ Lemongrass? (and stun duration also effects Fear).
Anyway, in the case of Melandru + Lemongrass, yes it is annoying but it is additive, meaning that anyone who wants to counter the food + runs can just build condi duration increase. (There is both food and runes for this + traits) Its what I do with my hybrid build on Necro, and why i stopped playing strict power. That said though, Warriors will still eat through it with their trait Dogged march +melandru + Lemongrass. So to the comment on completely making Necro useless, no it does not, all it does is make them have to play the condi duration game also. (which sucks, but 1/4s fears arent worth more condi damage).
Khloe Deschanel – Human Necromancer/ Ami Ginju – Human Ranger [DOLO] -SBI
I stream sometimes: http://www.twitch.tv/kidtofu/
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum”
As far as those threads are concerned, Condition duration is additive (or atleast only effects the base with the exception of the trait lingering curse) , and can even go farther with fear due to certain applications.
Khloe Deschanel – Human Necromancer/ Ami Ginju – Human Ranger [DOLO] -SBI
I stream sometimes: http://www.twitch.tv/kidtofu/
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum”
As far as those threads are concerned, Condition duration is additive (or atleast only effects the base with the exception of the trait lingering curse) , and can even go farther with fear due to certain applications.
But the point is that negative duration is not determined by the base condition duration of the condition giver. It is determined by the condition receiver. So the receiver subtracts percentages off whatever duration he sees. Thus there is an imbalance which favors the receiver and thus the minus-condition-duration food is OP.
I do not believe your links address negative duration.
Edit: the above is wrong. Condition duration is not calculated in two passes, but in a single pass.
Somehow this got really off-topic. On topic: Even though I absolutely despise thieves and their totally broken steath+initiative combination, I don’t believe anti-stealth food is a good idea. The game should not be balanced via food.
A better solution would be to give other classes traits that allow them to see stealthed targets. Thieves can rip boons off of people which is basically an anti-ele and anti guardian ability since they rely so heavily on boons. In that sense it would only be fair for other classes to have anti thief skills. The only reason why stealth is so OP is because of the fact there is no counter for it. Every other class mechanic has some sort of counter for it. But, food isnt the answer. the game shouldnt be balanced around food. They could also jsut change stealth so that it behaves the same way it does in jsut about evey other game that has some sort of stealth mechanic. First off make stealth last alot longer, until the target engages in combat. Stealth shouldnt be a get out of jail free card for a thief who messes up just so they can reset the fight over and over till they get the outcome they want from the fight. They should have to use it intelligently. Make stealth permanent until combat. as soon as they attack and hit a target, they become revealed and cant stealth again until they are out of combat. They have to play much more intelligently this way.
hmmm… just thinking aloud here… a food that has ‘10% chance to inflict 10s Revealed debuff on foe when you are hit.’ (numbers are open to be better balanced). There might also be +healing or whatever on the food too.
Means the particular thief/mesmer has to be actually fighting you at the time, and even then it only gives a chance to remove stealth, and for a limited amount of time.
Eternal War
Nourishment
Consumable
Allows your attacks from stealth to instantly kill a non-thief.
Duration 30 minutes
Only functional in WvW
Sold by a vendor in the Citadel
Cost 1 silver or 1 badge
Don’t forget to add a food that makes you immune to conditions then. Call it “Anti Condition Food”. Duration 30 minutes.
Also: Who cares about stealth? If some thiefes are hiding in a keep just search better and if a group of thiefes if going around the the zerg then search better – I’m sure they need to get out of stealth sometimes between all the skills that put them back into stealth. One of the 100+ people of your zerg should see them.
I only see it a problem in 1 vs. 1 – which certainly is not a WvW problem because WvW is about zergs.
It also is not a problem in sPvP because people there are more skilled and don’t whine about stealth(there are still a few but usually other classes are considered more OP and stealth is not a problem).
For example if you increase a 10 second bleed by 40% then you’re applying a 14 second bleeds. However, if your opponent has a -40% condition decrease, then he reduces the 14 seconds by 40%, getting only 8.4 seconds of bleed. So +40% then -40% gives less than 0% then -0%.
Another example: you increase a 10 second bleed by 100% so that you’re applying a 20 second bleed. If your opponent has a -50% condition decrease, then that 20 seconds gets reduced back down to 10 seconds. So a +100% condition is completely countered by -50% condition.
For those of you bad at math: multiplication happens simultaneously. Thus, (x)(y)(z) = (x)(z)(y). It doesn’t matter which “order” the condition duration increase and decrease is applied, which was what was incorrectly being implied in the quoted post.
But the point is that negative duration is not determined by the base condition duration of the condition giver. It is determined by the condition receiver. So the receiver subtracts percentages off whatever duration he sees. Thus there is an imbalance which favors the receiver and thus the minus-condition-duration food is OP.
I do not believe your links address negative duration.
edit: ofc, when its that cheap, i guess every roamer would run it
Not really. You would lose the 40% condition reduction food which renders necros and engys useless.
I run both melandru and the food for a 60% condi reduc and with breaking immobilize abilities I rarely have trouble with those classes. And I’m a warrior..imagine what the non-broken classes can do to necro engy.
Anti stealth food is not OP . I don’t see why we should screw over condi necros and engys while not doing anything for stealth.
As for food balancing the class/builds..yea..that’s the purpose of it in wvw after making anet some cash.
Thank you, that was possible one of the most valid points I have heard in a long time !
Happiness is finding an Omnomberry in your Grumble Cake
Anti-Stealth food would be op, as it is the thieves only main source of both offensive and defensive capabilities. IMO condi reduction food is too high as well and hurts condi based classes, which is why for the most part condi damage is broken.
Most of the players I’ve encountered that are angry about stealth are those that don’t know anything about it. Stealth is pretty easy to overcome, it’s the mobility of the escape abilities that get ya.
The saddest part of this is what it says of the class without stealth. I originally made my thief when I’d taken a look at_its skills and weapons and figured I basically had a choice of mobility, stealth, or some combination thereof… yeah, not so much. I guess I should have looked more closely at the traits and given elementalist another shot instead – after playing in PvP for a bit to see what I might aim for at 80, it seems like stealth more than steal is its real class mechanic.
edit: underscore because once more A-net’s pathetic word filter breaks common English speech.
You might as well ask for food that makes your attacks unblockable, or food that prevent you from seeing clones, or food that prevents you from being CC’d. Why break one class? Why not ask for food that makes you and you alone the best kitten on the server?
Would such food become popular in WvW considering you would have give up using other types of food and only a tiny minority of enemies use stealth?
I would absolutely use this food. I would say probably best balanced is see a stealthed outline (the shimmering silhouette the thief sees on his screen) and even maybe not target it, but be able to see it to hit with AOE’s and follow.
I’d pay closer to 5 or 10 badges for 30 minutes of this food
of course there are alternative ways the food can affect stealthed players- like instead of passively seeing stealthed units, causing 1second flicker on hitting a stealthed unit, during which point an outline and nametag pop up for 1 second
[VIG], SoR
Main: Asuran Engineer — Alt 80’s Ra-T-M-G-El-N-W-En-En-Re-Ra
Doctorate in Applied Jumping
Why not make food to see which of the mesmer’s copies is the real one? Why not make food that prevents you from getting attacked by pets? Why not make food that shields you from AoEs? Why not make food that protects you from conditions?
Because it makes no sense. Just like your suggestion.
. . . .