Guild Wars 2

Nordic Natedog.4360:

Mesmers by in large are the squishiest class when we get locked down.

Staff ele is.
We have to use all 4 sets of skills in order to escape, heavily scathed
Fire 4
Water 4
Air 5
Earth 4

And Grenth bless you if any of them are in cooldown or your enemies have stability

KStudios.2850:

Say what you want. Thief class is now dead.

Oh please no-one is going to use it in one on one fights, as has been said multiple times its a way to combat zergs veiling.

morrolan.9608:

KStudios.2850:

Say what you want. Thief class is now dead.

Oh please no-one is going to use it in one on one fights, as has been said multiple times its a way to combat zergs veiling.

Oh yes they will.

As stated, say what you want. I’m not being reduced to what amounts to a hack n’ slash mouth-frothing warrior in medium armor simply because some sore loser spends a few silver. It’s done. Thieves were something unique and lovely, completely different from everything else on the field, and they’re gone. Their numbers were already decimated post-culling post-Revealed. Which granted, was okay. The fairweathers left sure, but the best of us thieves learned and adjusted, and most of us were okay with it. We were pretty good after that, mostly balanced. The fights got a lot better and a lot more challenging afterward. But this… this just makes an entire skill-bar utterly useless, and I’m not taking the chance of it happening to me on the field. I’m not going to flail about uselessly awaiting death, again because someone with too much money, too much spite, and too little understanding stopped by a merchant. People like this:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m actually enjoying seeing Thieves whine. How many rage threads against thieves has there been since launch? Answer, too many to count! Yet, thieves still complain, complain, and complain it’s not enough for them.

Honestly, these traps are way too expensive. I may buy one or two if a thief starts harassing an area. Otherwise, I have no desire to waste resources on them. If the large Guilds start spamming the supply one like in the video, people are just going to quit playing. I’d bet the total number of user hours in WvW has been declining the past month already.

Yes, enjoy it while it lasts. I think you’ll find a lot fewer of us on the field now. I know I wont be out there. Revel in all those times you never got to kill a skilled thief because they slipped away. Like a good thief is supposed to. This thief just died permanently. No badges, but a victory nontheless.

I’ll stick to my ranger I guess. Can’t possibly nerf that one any further…

KStudios.2850:

morrolan.9608:

KStudios.2850:

Say what you want. Thief class is now dead.

Oh please no-one is going to use it in one on one fights, as has been said multiple times its a way to combat zergs veiling.

Oh yes they will.

As stated, say what you want. I’m not being reduced to what amounts to a hack n’ slash mouth-frothing warrior in medium armor simply because some sore loser spends a few silver. It’s done. Thieves were something unique and lovely, completely different from everything else on the field, and they’re gone. Their numbers were already decimated post-culling post-Revealed. Which granted, was okay. The fairweathers left sure, but the best of us thieves learned and adjusted, and most of us were okay with it. We were pretty good after that, mostly balanced. The fights got a lot better and a lot more challenging afterward. But this… this just makes an entire skill-bar utterly useless, and I’m not taking the chance of it happening to me on the field. I’m not going to flail about uselessly awaiting death, again because someone with too much money, too much spite, and too little understanding stopped by a merchant. People like this:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m actually enjoying seeing Thieves whine. How many rage threads against thieves has there been since launch? Answer, too many to count! Yet, thieves still complain, complain, and complain it’s not enough for them.

Honestly, these traps are way too expensive. I may buy one or two if a thief starts harassing an area. Otherwise, I have no desire to waste resources on them. If the large Guilds start spamming the supply one like in the video, people are just going to quit playing. I’d bet the total number of user hours in WvW has been declining the past month already.

Yes, enjoy it while it lasts. I think you’ll find a lot fewer of us on the field now. I know I wont be out there. Revel in all those times you never got to kill a skilled thief because they slipped away. Like a good thief is supposed to. This thief just died permanently. No badges, but a victory nontheless.

A mechanic that renders targeting skills of all 8 classes useless and can be invoked whenever you want without much casting time is better than a mechanic that renders stealth of 1 class quite literally useless for 30 seconds that requires 4 seconds of cast?

I think it’s better if thief changes from stealthy class to dodgy class. Remove stealth completely and introduce more dodgings mechanisms for thief.

penatbater.4710:

One reoccuring theme that complainers still haven’t addresed or responded to is the fact that these traps are meant for veiled zergs, and not for individual thieves. The aoe is really small, and the fact that wvw maps are so vast, chances of them being all over the place is pretty slim. Plus, given that people have been fightning stealthed thieves for a long time, chances are people wouldn’t waste those traps on 1 thief (unless he’s, you know, badge-rich and wants to troll you).

If Veil and Mass Invis were the problem then Arenanet would just nerf the problematic individual skills (like they nerfed Portal to max 20 players recently). This is obviously targeted at appeasing all the crying about thieves. If Veil and Mass Invis are the problem then they should be nerfed and the stealth trap can be removed from the game. Alternatively, they should offer traps that nullify other professions to make it balanced:

• Boon trap – clears all existing and new boons for the next 30 seconds (Guardians)
• Sticky Hands trap – weapon swap/attunements cannot be switched for 30 seconds (Elementalist)
• Pet trap – pet instantly dies and pet swap goes on cooldown for 30 seconds (Rangers)
• Clone trap – clones and phantasms cannot be created for 30 seconds (Mesmers)
• Bundle trap – kits cannot be equipped or used for 30 seconds (Engineers)
• Condition trap – conditions and lifesteal cannot be used for 30 seconds (Necro)
• Flashbang trap – all heavy armour attacks will miss for 30 seconds (Warrior/Guardian)

All of these traps sound unfair to the impacted professions because they are.

“Stealth trap – can’t stealth for 30 seconds” is just as unfair as any of the traps listed above.

Boag.8645:

Trap doesn’t prevent you from attacking / dodging / healing, just no stealth. So for 30 sec thieves have to l2p like the rest of us non-stealthers.

I’m pretty sure that if thieves were designed from the start by Arenanet to be a non-stealth + evasion profession then most thieves would have zero trouble adapting to that play style (and you would all still hate us for ganking you). We adapted to culling reducing our stealth time by about 2 seconds.

Thieves as a profession were never designed to play for long periods of time without stealth – our base 10k HP was no doubt decided upon based on the fact that thieves mitigate the majority of incoming damage via the misdirection and ranged weapon target drop that stealth gives us.

Removing stealth and not buffing our hit points as compensation for losing our stealth is just plain wrong.

robocafaz.9017:

Atherakhia.4086:

90% of that avoidance comes in the form of stealth.

Disabling Shot, Flanking Strike, Death Blossom, Withdraw, Roll for Initiative, Hidden Pistol (Charr only) are all skills that Evade without having stealth involved.

If you think death blossom belongs in a list of evades that are an appropriate alternative to stealth then you obviously don’t understand the thief profession well enough to be considered as having an informed opinion.

Fuzzion.2504:

Best thing Anet has done since their AC bump mistake

So….. I guess you didn’t like it at Vale supply camp when I dropped a shadow refuge on your dying elementalist body in the middle of a zerg battle and revived you?

Rezzet.3614:

except engineers and rangers are medium armored too and they dont have stealth and dish out big damage too , Diference? they rely on actual Skill . truth is thiefs keep saying stealth is their only means of survivability because they exploit stealth they all go 100% glass cannon since they can avoid harm at any time by stealthing that doesnt mean thief isnt capable of fighting other classes without stealth it means thief players have to l2p instead of relying on overpowered mechanics.

As far as I am aware, thieves are one of the weaker and least played professions in tournament PvP because everyone in tPvP has already learnt2play. So it sounds like everyone who thinks thieves have “OP mechanics” need to L2P.

Raestloz.7134:

KStudios.2850:

morrolan.9608:

KStudios.2850:

Say what you want. Thief class is now dead.

Oh please no-one is going to use it in one on one fights, as has been said multiple times its a way to combat zergs veiling.

Oh yes they will.

As stated, say what you want. I’m not being reduced to what amounts to a hack n’ slash mouth-frothing warrior in medium armor simply because some sore loser spends a few silver. It’s done. Thieves were something unique and lovely, completely different from everything else on the field, and they’re gone. Their numbers were already decimated post-culling post-Revealed. Which granted, was okay. The fairweathers left sure, but the best of us thieves learned and adjusted, and most of us were okay with it. We were pretty good after that, mostly balanced. The fights got a lot better and a lot more challenging afterward. But this… this just makes an entire skill-bar utterly useless, and I’m not taking the chance of it happening to me on the field. I’m not going to flail about uselessly awaiting death, again because someone with too much money, too much spite, and too little understanding stopped by a merchant. People like this:

DeWolfe.2174:

I’m actually enjoying seeing Thieves whine. How many rage threads against thieves has there been since launch? Answer, too many to count! Yet, thieves still complain, complain, and complain it’s not enough for them.

Honestly, these traps are way too expensive. I may buy one or two if a thief starts harassing an area. Otherwise, I have no desire to waste resources on them. If the large Guilds start spamming the supply one like in the video, people are just going to quit playing. I’d bet the total number of user hours in WvW has been declining the past month already.

Yes, enjoy it while it lasts. I think you’ll find a lot fewer of us on the field now. I know I wont be out there. Revel in all those times you never got to kill a skilled thief because they slipped away. Like a good thief is supposed to. This thief just died permanently. No badges, but a victory nontheless.

A mechanic that renders targeting skills of all 8 classes useless and can be invoked whenever you want without much casting time is better than a mechanic that renders stealth of 1 class quite literally useless for 30 seconds that requires 4 seconds of cast?

I think it’s better if thief changes from stealthy class to dodgy class. Remove stealth completely and introduce more dodgings mechanisms for thief.

So basically a melee ranger? In the meantime though we’re sitting ducks, and even after they overhaul the class it’s basically going to equate to relearning a new class. No, no, it’s better to start from scratch on something new. Maybe I’ll make a d/d ele. Must be good, right? Everyone but me has one.

KStudios.2850:

So basically a melee ranger? In the meantime though we’re sitting ducks, and even after they overhaul the class it’s basically going to equate to relearning a new class. No, no, it’s better to start from scratch on something new. Maybe I’ll make a d/d ele. Must be good, right? Everyone but me has one.

I think it’s less problematic than you imagine. Yes, theoretically people can set traps all over. If they have 20 supplies, they can place 2 traps at once. If a zerg is moving, they can place maybe 40 traps at once?

The problem would be the application. The traps are immobile, and zergs do not stay in one place hoping for thieves to come mauling them. The WvW map is a very large place, placing a trap and waiting for a thief to come at them is as boring as watching paint dry. I don’t think people will start placing traps randomly just to troll thieves. Impractical. It is, of course, possible for people to place traps in the midst of 5v5 fight, but then again, they need 4 seconds to cast it, and unless the group is all out thieves, it won’t reduce the overall firepower. You can still shadowstep after all

I think the inherent problem is the stealth thieves enjoy (and can dish). It simply is too annoying, as it works great against every other class out there without a real counter, and renders all targeting skills literally useless. Clones, Mist Form, and what-was-it mesmer’s invulnerability doesn’t last as long/render the targeting skill useless.

And lastly, I can imagine that blindly shooting to the air is simply not fun for the victims.

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

If Veil and Mass Invis were the problem then Arenanet would just nerf the problematic individual skills (like they nerfed Portal to max 20 players recently). This is obviously targeted at appeasing all the crying about thieves. If Veil and Mass Invis are the problem then they should be nerfed and the stealth trap can be removed from the game. Alternatively, they should offer traps that nullify other professions to make it balanced:

• Boon trap – clears all existing and new boons for the next 30 seconds (Guardians)
• Sticky Hands trap – weapon swap/attunements cannot be switched for 30 seconds (Elementalist)
• Pet trap – pet instantly dies and pet swap goes on cooldown for 30 seconds (Rangers)
• Clone trap – clones and phantasms cannot be created for 30 seconds (Mesmers)
• Bundle trap – kits cannot be equipped or used for 30 seconds (Engineers)
• Condition trap – conditions and lifesteal cannot be used for 30 seconds (Necro)
• Flashbang trap – all heavy armour attacks will miss for 30 seconds (Warrior/Guardian)

All of these traps sound unfair to the impacted professions because they are.

“Stealth trap – can’t stealth for 30 seconds” is just as unfair as any of the traps listed above.

This. ^

Now people complain that these kitten traps are underpowered ? When they are about to brake a class mechanic oh wait 2 ? including the mesmer ? What’s wrong with you people ? These kind of traps shouldnt have been added at all period.

“As far as I am aware, thieves are one of the weaker and least played professions in tournament PvP because everyone in tPvP has already learnt2play. So it sounds like everyone who thinks thieves have “OP mechanics” need to L2P.”

This is irrelevant. I’ve seen thieves easily escape entire zergs they were caught in the middle of. I’ve also seen them solo 6 people at once due to the simple fact they stealthed out continually and reset the fight until they essentially found the weakest player and 1 shot them.. then rinsed and repeat. This happened over a span of about 8 min.

The way Anet built the stealth mechanic into thieves is all wrong. You cannot have at any time a class that can duck in and out of a fight and reset it as much as they want rendering their opponent completely useless. Yes WvW is mainly about group fighting, but not everybody does that in WvW. There are smaller groups that run around doing odd jobs that are essentially sitting ducks.

Think of it this way, suppose Anet pulled a 180 and gave one class a superior advantage over thieves (much like thieves have a superior over other classes in 1v1 and small groups.. except this is just 1 class having an advantage..

Suppose Anet gave ranger pets the ability to automatically uncover thieves in stealth mode then the pets enrage. Then once uncovered, the rangers now were given CC immunity, increased movement speed, damage, and defense. A giant arrow is now placed on the thief for the entire zerg to track.

Are thieves going to be happy about this? Do you think they will be a tad bit miffed? Do you think their class will feel they are completely useless because the Rangers now have this OP mechanic rendering them useless? Now take that feeling, and multiply it by the 5 other classes. Now you should know how others view the thief..

Have a problem with it.. L2P of course.. figure it out.. it’s your own problem.. The attitude doesn’t really work. Stealth needs re-working, and this stealth trap wasn’t the right approach to it (if it was indeed designed to counter thieves, which I highly doubt it was)

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

• Boon trap – clears all existing and new boons for the next 30 seconds (Guardians)
• Sticky Hands trap – weapon swap/attunements cannot be switched for 30 seconds (Elementalist)
• Pet trap – pet instantly dies and pet swap goes on cooldown for 30 seconds (Rangers)
• Clone trap – clones and phantasms cannot be created for 30 seconds (Mesmers)
• Bundle trap – kits cannot be equipped or used for 30 seconds (Engineers)
• Condition trap – conditions and lifesteal cannot be used for 30 seconds (Necro)
• Flashbang trap – all heavy armour attacks will miss for 30 seconds (Warrior/Guardian)

All of these traps sound unfair to the impacted professions because they are.

“Stealth trap – can’t stealth for 30 seconds” is just as unfair as any of the traps listed above.

As far as I am aware, thieves are one of the weaker and least played professions in tournament PvP because everyone in tPvP has already learnt2play. So it sounds like everyone who thinks thieves have “OP mechanics” need to L2P.

Your last comment: PvP is not WvW. Lots and lots of thieves in WvW because the mechanics are not as limiting in WvW as they are in PvP. Never a L2 kitten ue when you have 1 thief able to kite around 10 people because of stealth.

I play mesmer, ranger, guardian, necro and would welcome any of your listed traps with open arms it matters not because I know I won’t trigger these traps every 5 yards. If I die, I die. WP and carry on. Thieves just don’t like dying because they regard themselves as immortal because of stealth. Honestly you might trigger on of these traps in open fields once per day, I just don’t see people spamming the landscape with traps just to reveal thieves for 30 seconds.

Now I do like the traps because it can actually prevent a thief from camping outside spawn and willy nilly pick their targets as people run out into the battle field. So you get a stealth nerf for 30 seconds, big deal. Just run away like you normally do, but this time just in plain sight.

But I never expected the OMG you broke our profession retorts too good!

DeadlySynz.3471:

“As far as I am aware, thieves are one of the weaker and least played professions in tournament PvP because everyone in tPvP has already learnt2play. So it sounds like everyone who thinks thieves have “OP mechanics” need to L2P.”

This is irrelevant. I’ve seen thieves easily escape entire zergs they were caught in the middle of. I’ve also seen them solo 6 people at once due to the simple fact they stealthed out continually and reset the fight until they essentially found the weakest player and 1 shot them.. then rinsed and repeat. This happened over a span of about 8 min.

The way Anet built the stealth mechanic into thieves is all wrong. You cannot have at any time a class that can duck in and out of a fight and reset it as much as they want rendering their opponent completely useless. Yes WvW is mainly about group fighting, but not everybody does that in WvW. There are smaller groups that run around doing odd jobs that are essentially sitting ducks.

Think of it this way, suppose Anet pulled a 180 and gave one class a superior advantage over thieves (much like thieves have a superior over other classes in 1v1 and small groups.. except this is just 1 class having an advantage..

Suppose Anet gave ranger pets the ability to automatically uncover thieves in stealth mode then the pets enrage. Then once uncovered, the rangers now were given CC immunity, increased movement speed, damage, and defense. A giant arrow is now placed on the thief for the entire zerg to track.

Are thieves going to be happy about this? Do you think they will be a tad bit miffed? Do you think their class will feel they are completely useless because the Rangers now have this OP mechanic rendering them useless? Now take that feeling, and multiply it by the 5 other classes. Now you should know how others view the thief..

Have a problem with it.. L2P of course.. figure it out.. it’s your own problem.. The attitude doesn’t really work. Stealth needs re-working, and this stealth trap wasn’t the right approach to it (if it was indeed designed to counter thieves, which I highly doubt it was)

I don’t have to know how others view thief, I felt the very same despair every time I heard that now infamous debuffing stealth noise somewhere behind me, only to get ganked for 3/4 of my health seconds later. You know what I did? I rolled a thief and conquered those fears by learning the mechanics of the “monster.” Thief quickly became my second fave class right behind ranger. They’re tremendous fun (well, were), and thief on thief fights are some of the most intense cat and mouse scraps you’ll ever have, period. I have hardly died to a thief since that time, even on my little squishy squish ranger. I have a full understanding of how they work and function. I also note that hardly anyone in their right mind brings a thief into tPvP, because everyone there pretty much smokes them.

I now have a hatred for warriors, and their multiple holds and snares (only 1-2 of which I have counter-skills for), which they almost always follow-up with 100-blades. Which is even worse than Backstab ever was. Despite that I know and see that it’s coming. It’s actually almost worse, simply because of that fact.

Scleameth.6809:

I play mesmer, ranger, guardian, necro and would welcome any of your listed traps with open arms it matters not because I know I won’t trigger these traps every 5 yards. If I die, I die. WP and carry on. Thieves just don’t like dying because they regard themselves as immortal because of stealth. Honestly you might trigger on of these traps in open fields once per day, I just don’t see people spamming the landscape with traps just to reveal thieves for 30 seconds.

Funny, my main is a ranger and I don’t. Thieves were fun, and personally, I’d rather traps of any kind be more my expertise.

Scleameth.6809:

But I never expected the OMG you broke our profession retorts too good!

As I said earlier, enjoy it while it lasts. We’re working our way to being able to simply call World verses World D/DvD/D.

All good. I don’t even mind if they nerf all other classes to 1K health and 10 toughness. As long as there is a mechanic to reveal thieves (even though it’s really a rare occasion).
I know to you thieves the 3 second visible between stealths feels like an age, but we have to find you first (1sec), then target you (1sec TAB targeting between all the wildlife or 1.5sec horrid double click targeting), then let loose my best attack (1 sec cast time at least). so there you go, thief gone before anything hits… I have to hunker down and wait… and pray… in plain sight… with no shoes… in the snow… while you guys lol in behind us.

I am playing a thief and love all the thief whining pretending that they instantly die and become useless if cant stay permastealthed .

The cost for this particular trap is however questionable, as its not really that useful. Once people stop playing with new toys and spamming them, will likely be very rarely ever used because of the badges cost. Still nice situational feature.

Scleameth.6809:

All good. I don’t even mind if they nerf all other classes to 1K health and 10 toughness. As long as there is a mechanic to reveal thieves (even though it’s really a rare occasion).
I know to you thieves the 3 second visible between stealths feels like an age, but we have to find you first (1sec), then target you (1sec TAB targeting between all the wildlife or 1.5sec horrid double click targeting), then let loose my best attack (1 sec cast time at least). so there you go, thief gone before anything hits… I have to hunker down and wait… and pray… in plain sight… with no shoes… in the snow… while you guys lol in behind us.

Likewise, the 3 seconds we’re invisible to you guys may seem like ages (cause all stealth skills except Shadow Refuge are only 3 seconds long. Don’t believe? Look ‘em up The one with the shortest cooldown actually requires us to get all up close and snuggly to hit you for kittens sake). If you’re standing there just waiting during that time however, you’re just asking to get shanked. You know the thiefs last location, step backwards from that point, dodging back as well if you really feel the need. He’ll almost have to debuff stealth before reaching you. I emphasize the moving backwards part, turning your back to a thief is a huge no-no, as many thief skills double damage from behind.

Also, don’t be afraid to spam your base attack while kiting. May make you look a little silly swiping at the air, but despite common belief we do take damage while stealthed.

uberkingkong.8041:

Marquiz.7625:

With this trap. Defending bay in the borderlands is impossible for a low pop server against a high pop server. Go figure

You don’t use anti stealth for defense on a keep, you use anti supply so they cant build siege to knockdown your doors. Anti stealth is really good for after you take a keep and doing a run around to make sure no mesmers are inside.

I’m talking about how it helps high pop attackers, not about defending. Besides, I don’t think the traps are used to find mesmers hiding, they dont stealth for long anyway

Tsk Tsk, 30 man bunker up inside camp to treb outter & inner. 15 man defending Bay sit and wait to die since the option of thief stealth through to take out siege or mesmer portal bomb is out of question when they only need to put two traps to find you

Ljiona.9142:

You mean you actually have to gear for defense and make a bunker thief like everyone else? Oh no….

Bunker thief? LOL havent heard that one before

KStudios.2850:

Scleameth.6809:

All good. I don’t even mind if they nerf all other classes to 1K health and 10 toughness. As long as there is a mechanic to reveal thieves (even though it’s really a rare occasion).
I know to you thieves the 3 second visible between stealths feels like an age, but we have to find you first (1sec), then target you (1sec TAB targeting between all the wildlife or 1.5sec horrid double click targeting), then let loose my best attack (1 sec cast time at least). so there you go, thief gone before anything hits… I have to hunker down and wait… and pray… in plain sight… with no shoes… in the snow… while you guys lol in behind us.

Likewise, the 3 seconds we’re invisible to you guys may seem like ages (cause all stealth skills except Shadow Refuge are only 3 seconds long. Don’t believe? Look ‘em up The one with the shortest cooldown actually requires us to get all up close and snuggly to hit you for kittens sake). If you’re standing there just waiting during that time however, you’re just asking to get shanked. You know the thiefs last location, step backwards from that point, dodging back as well if you really feel the need. He’ll almost have to debuff stealth before reaching you. I emphasize the moving backwards part, turning your back to a thief is a huge no-no, as many thief skills double damage from behind.

Also, don’t be afraid to spam your base attack while kiting. May make you look a little silly swiping at the air, but despite common belief we do take damage while stealthed.

Understood and I do try not to have my back exposed most of the time, but to go ahead and waste endurance just to get away from an invisible target? So woopy your only invis for 3 seconds, but you have the initiative on attack. We can take a “best guess” approach but never really know where the next attack is coming from. So you get to attack and we don’t get to counter attack because you vanish again asap. Running away from a thief fight is not an option. So stand there and fight is all we can do. Die when it goes bad, tap myself on the shoulder when it goes good. Thieves tap themselves on the should when it goes good, run away and reset the fight when it goes bad. (because let’s be honest – a thief only dies in a 1v1 when they over extend and get arrogant about their skillz.) But they’re always still around…. aaaaalwaaaays still around… somewhere…. just waiting to stab us in the back. When we think we can go on again with our game: TADAAAAAA here’s that thief again, cling-cling-cling-cling…. that’s when I start hating you guys sooo bad. A good kind of hate, but hate none the less.

WhiteRose.6934:

When something is designed that directly counters a play style it’s wrong.

I don’t like that Guardians can tank 5+ people, I think it’s bull. Why can’t I have a trap that renders all of their virtues and buffs useless for 30 seconds? But people like to say “oh but guardians are meant to be able to tank”…well I hate to say it but thieves are meant to be able to weave through stealth.

“Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize STEALTH and shadow-steps to surprise and to get close to their target.”

Hell we have an entire trait line dedicated to stealth…idiots.

I used to hate thieves too, trust me I was there. But now I love fighting them, because downing a thief when he’s stealthed and seeing his downed body reveal in front of me is so satisfying. You know why? Because I got better as a player. Try is sometime.

The saving grace of the trap is it’s cost, and the small area it effects. And the channel-time. The idea behind the trap is terrible, giving everyone an ability to counter a specific play style is just such a bad idea, but right now the execution is decent. The only thing I think is wrong is the obscene reveal time. 10 seconds would have been okay in my opinion, makes it able to counter portal mesmers (like myself), but doesn’t leave people totally screwed out of their build for 30 seconds.

What’s funny is survivability for Guardians comes from boons, and dodging and not to long ago Thieves and Warriors got boon hate. All the thieves and Warriors were ok with this even though the mechanic punishes our class’s core mechanic(Guardian’s) and turns them from something helpful, and positive to something negative(Thieves getting free boons, and Warriors causing a lot of extra damage to those who are unfortunate enough to not have protection up at the time.)

Also what you’re describing about the guardian can be said with a thief, only the thing that offsets with Guardinas being able to take on 1 v x is that the guardian has to fight since he can’t escape meaning he has to commit to the fight, versus a thief who can, perma stealth, upkeep perma blind(with the popular D/P build) Kill people easily picking everyone off one by one, and if you screw up? no problem stealth and reset the fight.

Thieves are pretty annoying and 30 Sec without stealth means you’re only going to have to rely on Shadowsteps and Dodging, instead of Perma Stealthing, and reseting the fight when things don’t go your way.Though i’ll admit most thieves are easy to drop when you know how to play against them, but against good thieves it’s pretty much tilt in their favor, since you’ll never kill them or they just slip away from you regardless..I mean even if they trigger a trap what’s going to stop them from switching to Shortbow and just shadow stepping away until the revealed debuff is off. Then coming back to fight again? THere was no counterplay to stealth, now there is*shrug* (if you say AoE, that’s not the answer since any thief can just move out of or dodge out of AoE in stealth.)

Scleameth.6809:

KStudios.2850:

Scleameth.6809:

All good. I don’t even mind if they nerf all other classes to 1K health and 10 toughness. As long as there is a mechanic to reveal thieves (even though it’s really a rare occasion).
I know to you thieves the 3 second visible between stealths feels like an age, but we have to find you first (1sec), then target you (1sec TAB targeting between all the wildlife or 1.5sec horrid double click targeting), then let loose my best attack (1 sec cast time at least). so there you go, thief gone before anything hits… I have to hunker down and wait… and pray… in plain sight… with no shoes… in the snow… while you guys lol in behind us.

Likewise, the 3 seconds we’re invisible to you guys may seem like ages (cause all stealth skills except Shadow Refuge are only 3 seconds long. Don’t believe? Look ‘em up The one with the shortest cooldown actually requires us to get all up close and snuggly to hit you for kittens sake). If you’re standing there just waiting during that time however, you’re just asking to get shanked. You know the thiefs last location, step backwards from that point, dodging back as well if you really feel the need. He’ll almost have to debuff stealth before reaching you. I emphasize the moving backwards part, turning your back to a thief is a huge no-no, as many thief skills double damage from behind.

Also, don’t be afraid to spam your base attack while kiting. May make you look a little silly swiping at the air, but despite common belief we do take damage while stealthed.

Understood and I do try not to have my back exposed most of the time, but to go ahead and waste endurance just to get away from an invisible target? So woopy your only invis for 3 seconds, but you have the initiative on attack. We can take a “best guess” approach but never really know where the next attack is coming from. So you get to attack and we don’t get to counter attack because you vanish again asap. Running away from a thief fight is not an option. So stand there and fight is all we can do. Die when it goes bad, tap myself on the shoulder when it goes good. Thieves tap themselves on the should when it goes good, run away and reset the fight when it goes bad. (because let’s be honest – a thief only dies in a 1v1 when they over extend and get arrogant about their skillz.) But they’re always still around…. aaaaalwaaaays still around… somewhere…. just waiting to stab us in the back. When we think we can go on again with our game: TADAAAAAA here’s that thief again, cling-cling-cling-cling…. that’s when I start hating you guys sooo bad. A good kind of hate, but hate none the less.

Actually, unless that person is otherwise blocking or camping an objective of mine (such as he’s soloing a camp and I’m the only thing between him and success), if I’ve engaged once or twice and had to escape I generally don’t hang around. At that point it’s time to /bow and find a new (preferably squishier) playmate. The whole premise of the thief class against groups is about harassing the enemy, leading/pulling/deterring them if possible, and general demoralization. We’re really not entirely all that effective otherwise in a mass combat sense. What’s the worst we’re going to do if we’re up against 6-10 of you? Sure, we might get lucky and drop a few into downed state, but if you guys are doing your job and looking after one another there’s really not a whole lot we can do. That’s the part that makes me wonder why we’re such a big deal. We aren’t by any means bringing home bigger bacon points-wise than anyone else. Quite the opposite actually.

KStudios.2850:

Scleameth.6809:

Understood and I do try not to have my back exposed most of the time, but to go ahead and waste endurance just to get away from an invisible target? So woopy your only invis for 3 seconds, but you have the initiative on attack. We can take a “best guess” approach but never really know where the next attack is coming from. So you get to attack and we don’t get to counter attack because you vanish again asap. Running away from a thief fight is not an option. So stand there and fight is all we can do. Die when it goes bad, tap myself on the shoulder when it goes good. Thieves tap themselves on the should when it goes good, run away and reset the fight when it goes bad. (because let’s be honest – a thief only dies in a 1v1 when they over extend and get arrogant about their skillz.) But they’re always still around…. aaaaalwaaaays still around… somewhere…. just waiting to stab us in the back. When we think we can go on again with our game: TADAAAAAA here’s that thief again, cling-cling-cling-cling…. that’s when I start hating you guys sooo bad. A good kind of hate, but hate none the less.

Actually, unless that person is otherwise blocking or camping an objective of mine (such as he’s soloing a camp and I’m the only thing between him and success), if I’ve engaged once or twice and had to escape I generally don’t hang around. At that point it’s time to /bow and find a new (preferably squishier) playmate. The whole premise of the thief class against groups is about harassing the enemy, leading/pulling/deterring them if possible, and general demoralization. We’re really not entirely all that effective otherwise in a mass combat sense. That’s the part that makes me wonder why we’re such a big deal. We aren’t by any means bringing home bigger bacon points-wise than anyone else. Quite the opposite actually.

Honourable, but afaik that makes one of you… al this pages and pages of hype around thieves and stealth is not just some sort of gripe players have with a class they can’t beat (hence the recent string of OP spoof topics). There are many, many, many thieves that thrive on constantly griefing spawns and keep exits. Yes, to be a pain in the back, I’m sure and kudos to them. But with no mechanic of fighting back it sucks. 1v1 I’ve never encountered a thief like you who would call it a day and break off for the next meal. My 1v1s out in the open with a thief always results in a death by either party.

Now two thieves…. even more of a pain. Because of the stealth spike I’ve seen two good thieves take out groups of 10 or more – and don’t think they’re going to move on anytime soon. These guys will hang around keep exits for hours if entertained with the string of ants piling out to defend SM. Good job, yes. That’s good tactics keeping the support out of the defence, but heck. No chance of 10 fighting back against 2?
So arguments that thieves are little worth in a zerg is pointless since they can basically eliminate a small group with just 2 of them. 2vZerg and thieves win? That’s just wrong man. Once, mebbe. Twice, getting annoying! Time and time again? Not right. Two zerker warriors won’t last 10 seconds against 10 enemies.
So we gotta look at some sort of class balance. If it makes thieves happy then take a random boon when you exit stealth or even 3 or even 10 if you like, but let’s be able to fight back for heavens’ sake. Just for 30 seconds every now and then….

Well the thing is that there won’t be much of a fight if a thief with a build build around stealth gets ripped out of it and can’t enter it for 30 sec.

And of course one can argue that builds can be changed but wasn’t the original idea of ANet to give everyone the opportunity to play each class the way you want?
Making a trap that destroys stealth is the same thing as creating a trap that forces the eles to stay in one attunement or the mesmer to loose all clones…

And I’ve seen Eles and Mesmers fighting 1 vs 5 and more, thats much rather a question of skill then profession.

I’d be happy with a trap that extends the time you can not reenter stealth or something like that, cause that would be a challenge and not a death sentence (if you have choosen to play a stealthy kind of thief)

Really people are complaining about this? If you run over 1 roaming around just waypoint back for 30 seconds and run back out, it’s not kittening rocket science.

What do u think most classes do roaming that dont have stealth, i constantly waypoint on my Guardian when i see a horde of people running at me.

Haha i’m loving this. I’ll say the same thing that thieves trolling on the ele thread said when they nerfed RTL “if you rely on one mechanic of your profession so heavily that it cripples your class when you no longer have it, L2P!” Not so fun when the shoe is on the other foot now is it? If you rely so heavily on stealth that the class is rendered useless to you by one trap, then it was obviously too good to begin with and something like this is perfectly fair. And yeah it’s worth spending the badges just to deal with one thief just so i can troll them. If i can’t RTL away from you anymore, you shouldn’t be able to stealth and run away from me. Perfectly fair. Thieves tears are delicious!

My only wish is those trap cost the same as one AC. Too bad, Anet screw up this game the exact moment they implement stealth.

To be honest they arent really that great. the AoE area is really small, and it takes 4 seconds to deploy it. Standing still for 4 seconds a good thief could kill you. It’s only purpose right now is trolling the bad ones who are stupid enough to get caught in it. But i have over 5k badges i’m not using on anything, so i might as well use them to troll thieves.

ITT: Thieves who only know how to use a single stealth-heavy playstyle.

Noil.7816:

Well

You should feel ashamed of yourself for bumping this old thread.

Seriously?

- Saying thieves need to “l2p like the rest of you” is both childish and disrespectful, besides from factually incorrect.
- Secondly, ANTI-STEALTH were NOT MEANT for thieves, but rather invi/veiled zergs. Wasting an anti-stealth trap on a thief is plain useless, a waste of both badges and supply.

Ive died purely thanks to stealth traps twice thus far. I don’t think its right. I mean, I don’t have a trap that removes 60% of the life of my opponent, which is pretty much exactly what a stealth trap is doing to my thief because my survivability is built on stealth. In the two cases where I was killed, I hit an already planted trap whilst in a fight. You can call it unlucky, but do we really need luck in PvP?

Useless and far too costly trap. For that price I’d expect it as a buff for myself for 30 mins, that reveals thieves every couple of seconds in a radius of 1000. Even then it would be useless. So what if you reveal a thief, not like he can’t still escape with their OP mobility, and you waste the cash spent on the trap. The trap should also apply a 33% slow debuff to the thief. You know, just so the class is brought down to the plane of the other classes.

Ok. I get alot of trolling perma-stealth thieves are annoyed about the stealth trap. Yet think about this from another point of view. Say two glass cannon elementalist and two perma-stealth thiefs cross paths. Normaly, the thieves would tear right through the elementalist. Right? Now say that same event happened and the elementalist had placed an anti-stealth trap. Now the elementalist tear through the thieves. Keep in mind this is all how you use them. If a thief is smart about how they play thier class, they could easily avoid the traps. I mean, you see the trap being placed? Go somewhere else. Its that simple.

i got a anti stealth trap once from a wvw chest, i wasted 10 supply to troll some kitten roaming theif. (don’t tell me to L2P he was actually an kitten, him and his entire guild).
i would gladly pay any price to watch him try and panic stealth for 30 secs again, but he still got away since theives still have double the amount of QQ potential as any class without stealth. 10x as much if the theif can still stealth.
if a theif dies because he can’t stealth then he just needs to be given the L2P post

Did I miss the bit in the trap description where it says ‘thief becomes rooted in place and is unable to use any skills or move whatsoever’?

Whoopee you are revealed- now you actually have to learn to use some skill instead of just disappearing whenever you want to- poor you.

Welcome to how the rest of us play all the time:-)

If you can’t cope with running over the extremely rare anti stealth trap (anyone actually use them? cost is too high, area of effect is too small) then you really need to go play something else.

Victory.2879:

Did I miss the bit in the trap description where it says ‘thief becomes rooted in place and is unable to use any skills or move whatsoever’?

Whoopee you are revealed- now you actually have to learn to use some skill instead of just disappearing whenever you want to- poor you.

Welcome to how the rest of us play all the time:-)

If you can’t cope with running over the extremely rare anti stealth trap (anyone actually use them? cost is too high, area of effect is too small) then you really need to go play something else.

It’s not about that. Any other class can cope with using 4 skills because almost all of their skills are strong and attack based. Thieves sets on other hand only have 1 attack skill,
one stealth attack skill, and 3 skills that deal low damage and fulfill some utility purpose.
D/D would have only heartseeker and deathblossom (weak condition move on a power build is fluff), D/P would have heartseeker, but at least it’s still blind city, S/D would only have Flanking Strike and P/D gets a big old goose egg because none of it’s attacks have over 505 per hit, most don’t have over 200 power and all but one are single hit.

Thief can outrun any pursuer w/o stealth. I have thief lvl 22, I can outrun a 80 warrior without stealth.

In PvP, my thief build does not use any stealth (except CnD). And it does well. Although its still underpowered (far underpowered to warrior), it can stand many attacks, take down an enemy (guardian bunker >>> bunker in pvp does not need move to much, they make battle inside the circle, where most glass cannon die), all of this without using CnD/stealth.

KStudios.2850:

Scleameth.6809:

All good. I don’t even mind if they nerf all other classes to 1K health and 10 toughness. As long as there is a mechanic to reveal thieves (even though it’s really a rare occasion).
I know to you thieves the 3 second visible between stealths feels like an age, but we have to find you first (1sec), then target you (1sec TAB targeting between all the wildlife or 1.5sec horrid double click targeting), then let loose my best attack (1 sec cast time at least). so there you go, thief gone before anything hits… I have to hunker down and wait… and pray… in plain sight… with no shoes… in the snow… while you guys lol in behind us.

Likewise, the 3 seconds we’re invisible to you guys may seem like ages (cause all stealth skills except Shadow Refuge are only 3 seconds long. Don’t believe? Look ‘em up The one with the shortest cooldown actually requires us to get all up close and snuggly to hit you for kittens sake). If you’re standing there just waiting during that time however, you’re just asking to get shanked. You know the thiefs last location, step backwards from that point, dodging back as well if you really feel the need. He’ll almost have to debuff stealth before reaching you. I emphasize the moving backwards part, turning your back to a thief is a huge no-no, as many thief skills double damage from behind.

Also, don’t be afraid to spam your base attack while kiting. May make you look a little silly swiping at the air, but despite common belief we do take damage while stealthed.

This would be all ok… IF as a Thief you HAD to hit the player to go stealthed… But don’t act like you have to run up to a player and smack them to abuse stealth, when every little critter, pet, or monster can be used as an instant stealth as you run away, reset your fight while we get stuck with the aggro of the mob you just tagged and you come back with full life and do 8k+ damage to a full toughness character. The defending of the Thief is rather sad, the class is by far one of the most powerful in the game, behind mesmers. Mesmers at the very least take more skill because they cannot just Oh “kitten” and run away and smack a rabbit/hawk/deer/guard/anything, to go invis and just double teleport away in a few seconds, regaining all health, speed, and initiative.

Also, spamming 1 only works on MELEE classes, as others #1 doesn’t hit aoe or right infront of the char.

So why can’t the Thief simply run away?… you know, like they always do when they are losing a fight? This is assuming that people are going to be spending all these resources on trying to trap a single thief in the first place.

The other suggestions for profession specific traps is rather BS, as those other professions cannot simply disengage like a Thief can.

At that cost it should prevent stealth for 30 minutes on a whole map