Guild Wars 2

It feels like there is such a small amount of people in each map, yet there are queue times?

Just wondering if I wasn’t alone here.

We be RPin’ ninjas.. ye cannot see us!

yeah i feel like the whole 133 people cap on each map is a bunch of bullkitten, when we lost garrison (most recently) we had about 20-25 people there, with a queue.

I dont know if its bugged or we had that many people killing centaurs/being afk in spawn

I’ve been wondering this as well – even had another thread on it yesterday. Queues on all 4 maps night before last, but we are horribly outnumbered wherever I went. Doesn’t make sense to me

It’s probably sharing the queue for all servers.

OutspokenAardvark.9781:

It’s probably sharing the queue for all servers.

Surely not… but it would be nice if they would just tell us

Check the jumping puzzles and pve zones

Check the water for botters or centaur/skritt. Though I really haven’t seen any wvw botting crews in a long time.

Habib, thanks for the reply!

We’ve actually gone running around map looking for the extra bodies and haven’t been able to locate them .. or account for the tiny amount in the fighting group versus the stated queue for us to get into say TCBL. It’s a head scratcher, because even if there is a three minute delay of one person transferring from one map to another, we’re seeing this for a longer period of time than that would account for.

But I suppose it is possible I missed a nook or cranny .. or any of my teammates did … hrm, will have to be more thorough next time. Appreciate the feedback, I’m sure TC isn’t alone in seeing this.

I secretly suspect that SoR appears to be more plentiful because they often run as 2 seperate guild groups, a broader militia group, and a couple smaller havoc squads on each map. As a member of TC, we do this too, on reset night, and sometimes on other BL’s, but we really lack the coordination to do this on TCBL and EB because they are already near full or full most of the time. This is just one of those things that the Tier 1 servers have figured out, and we need some more time.

We need to stop denying the truth about our Chitterogg ERP club.

Here are the most likely causes imho.

TCBL: Crafters and people using the trading posts. People standing around in spawn and waiting for who-knows-what. Duelists in a cross server fight-club.

EB: Mainly JPers and standing around in spawn and waiting for who-knows-what.

SoR is simply better organized and their average player is likely better geared, higher level and more experienced than our average player. They run in tight zergs with a purpose, while our players often go around in more scattered zergs, go off and do their own thing or stand around trying to figure out what to do/do random stuff in the portal keep.

SoR is simply a T1 server stuck in T2.

fishergrip.4082:

SoR is simply better organized and their average player is likely better geared, higher level and more experienced than our average player. They run in tight zergs with a purpose, while our players often go around in more scattered zergs, go off and do their own thing or stand around trying to figure out what to do/do random stuff in the portal keep.

SoR is simply a T1 server stuck in T2.

You can say that about every average player on every server.. they are not as geared, leveled, wise of the game, as many of the hardcore main stay WvW guilds.. on every server. SOR just has better coverage, a deeper commitment with their WvW guilds, and more practice at guild/group mechanics and execution. That’s why it’s always nice to play against new servers to see how they do things and to adopt a way to combat it, or develop your own equally effective techniques.

I’ve not been in WvW much this week (been sick, and I don’t play my best or enjoy myself much when my head hurts) but when I have popped in I have seen this same thing.

If it was botters (or players) at the skritt/centaurs/krait you would see orange swords pop on the map, which I haven’t seen. Neither have I seen an excessive amount of players standing in spawn or crafting. I don’t do the jumping puzzles, so I can’t account for that, but it doesn’t seem like 20+ people would be in there constantly without ever talking in map chat.

If it is an organization issue, I can understand that, we are pretty free-spirited generally. I’ve got more tinfoil hat theories, which I won’t bother putting here, because if they are true, it’s just sad, and if they aren’t, there’s no reason to start rumors.

What I think is most likely is that the queuing software is bugged somehow. Simply looking at the queue times won’t tell that, and fixing (not to mention simply identifying) a bug in the system is likely a daunting process to say the least.

Habib Loew.6239:

Hi all,

Queues are per map, per team – so there is a queue for TC players on the Eternal Battlegrounds and a different queue for TC players on each Borderlands, and a different queue for each of the other teams on each of the maps.

During the time it takes for players to change maps it is possible for there to be a queue even if there are less players in a map than the maximum capacity because the players taking up those empty slots are still “in flight” between maps. It’s also possible for a slot to take a while to fill if e.g. people see the queue pop, wait until the progress bar for the automatic transfer is almost empty, and then choose to renter the queue. At that point the system will move on and look for other players to fill that slot but all of that takes a bit of time. We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

So I don’t know where in the map those players are when you’re looking for them, but they’re definitely in there somewhere!

I think it would be nice to know what position you’re at in the queue. Like maybe when you put you’re mouse over then WvW icon it could say your position like: “You are 2nd in queue” or something like this. Because sometime I just see myself waiting in Lion’s Arch to enter in WvW for hours… where I could’ve been in dungeons or anything.

I hope you’re going to reply to this post too.

Thank you.

I don’t know how its happening but I have to agree with this. Yesterday there was a 5 minute queue on TCBL when I was switching alts. As I logged back in the commander was asking everyone to come to the citadel WP. After what seemed forever waiting and calling all TC’ers there was approx 20 people there and a handful doing their own thing elsewhere. We had no towers or camps… sor had them all. Yet with only the handful of us there, there was still a 5 minute queue… I dont know but something isint right.

Also how outnumbered do we have to be to get the outmanned buff?

Sunspots.9861:

I secretly suspect that SoR appears to be more plentiful because they often run as 2 seperate guild groups, a broader militia group, and a couple smaller havoc squads on each map.

Doesn’t really have anything to do with SoR.

What I’ve been seeing the past couple-few nights on TCBL doesn’t jive with what I’ve seen on TCBL for the past several months. I’m looking at TC’s side. SoR doesn’t come into it (aside from its holdings, which actually gives TCers fewer places to be spread out at).

Having a 20 minute queue, and then only being able to muster 20-or-so folks for Break Outs at the Citadel is pretty dang peculiar.

I seem to see this problem in Lion’s Arch actually on HoD. Very often you have to wait in the overflow, and when you get in, it’s seems like a ghost town. Usually there is a stream of LFG or other chatter to indicate people are in there, but in the last few weeks it’s often totally deserted chat wise after a queue wait.

By chance do these map limits scale down to brackets (0-50, 51-100, 101-133)? … example … if CD can field 40, Yak’s can field 60 and Kain can field 100 at the present timer … would all server receive a maximum map capacity of say a balance 40 or 50ish and the remaining be queued?

I’ve always been curious about this, or is it … 0-133 regardless of opponents running populus?

Well there is definitely something wrong with the queues, I queued up for all the BLs on my server, waited 10 minutes and still didnt get in. So I clicked again and got in immediately.

Why was my second attempt to log in given first priority over the queued attempt for which I had been waiting for 10 minutes?!

Seems lately most nights have a line to get in to EB and the TCBL (on the TC server) and it really doesn’t seem like we’re at capacity when you’re in the BL. I wonder if they’ll look into this or disclose if there’s actually an issue, shocked as we may be. Time shall tell.

Right now TC has a queue on all 4 maps…We are losing by 200k and supposedly we are filling full queues while holding 120 points. I’m telling you, something is wrong with TC’s queue’s…

Are you all sitting in the JP? I know when I can’t find anyone, that is the first place to look.

Hydrophidian.4319:

What I’ve been seeing the past couple-few nights on TCBL doesn’t jive with what I’ve seen on TCBL for the past several months. I’m looking at TC’s side. SoR doesn’t come into it (aside from its holdings, which actually gives TCers fewer places to be spread out at).

Having a 20 minute queue, and then only being able to muster 20-or-so folks for Break Outs at the Citadel is pretty dang peculiar.

I’m on SOS and used to be on YB and have noticed something similar on both servers. Last night on SOS borderlands we appeared to be clearly outnumbered by JQ but there was a queu to get on.

If you have a queue on EB but don’t see your own team on the battlefield, check the JP.

9 times out of 10 in these situations, you will have like 30 people in the JP.

The lure of the Jumping Puzzle is strong.
Once saw at least 25 green dots floating around in EB jp once.

When you have no keep you can’t even get into the JP o_O! Yet I was still waiting in Queue…

Thrashbarg.9820:

If it is an organization issue, I can understand that, we are pretty free-spirited generally. I’ve got more tinfoil hat theories, which I won’t bother putting here, because if they are true, it’s just sad, and if they aren’t, there’s no reason to start rumors.

As a player on SoR, I have to say it’s almost definitely an organization issue. I can count at least 4 times in the past week where I’ve been walking alone back to a group or just roaming solo, where a TC zerg finds me and I run to the corner of a map that has no use to anyone, yet 15+ TC (twice a commander followed me as well in this group) chase me down for well over a minute to get a single kill. At the same time, your zerg gets strung out as a large number is chasing me.

Meanwhile, I have time to let everyone know over map chat where a large group of TC is and give a pretty accurate number as I have no allies that affect culling. I’m not stupid enough to suicide into a group of 15 TC no matter how survivable my build is and I pose an extremely small risk to your group. As you chase me, the strung out zerg makes very easy pickings for reinforcements when they do come.

This is not intended in any way to bash on TC, but I did want to put my input into this thread to know what it looks like from the other side. I love fighting against you guys and wish you all the best of luck in future weeks. With more organization, you guys can be a real force in WvW.

DBR.9876:

Thrashbarg.9820:

If it is an organization issue, I can understand that, we are pretty free-spirited generally. I’ve got more tinfoil hat theories, which I won’t bother putting here, because if they are true, it’s just sad, and if they aren’t, there’s no reason to start rumors.

As a player on SoR, I have to say it’s almost definitely an organization issue. I can count at least 4 times in the past week where I’ve been walking alone back to a group or just roaming solo, where a TC zerg finds me and I run to the corner of a map that has no use to anyone, yet 15+ TC (twice a commander followed me as well in this group) chase me down for well over a minute to get a single kill. At the same time, your zerg gets strung out as a large number is chasing me.

Meanwhile, I have time to let everyone know over map chat where a large group of TC is and give a pretty accurate number as I have no allies that affect culling. I’m not stupid enough to suicide into a group of 15 TC no matter how survivable my build is and I pose an extremely small risk to your group. As you chase me, the strung out zerg makes very easy pickings for reinforcements when they do come.

This is not intended in any way to bash on TC, but I did want to put my input into this thread to know what it looks like from the other side. I love fighting against you guys and wish you all the best of luck in future weeks. With more organization, you guys can be a real force in WvW.

I think that’s fair comment, but we really are seeing odd/buggy queue times that aren’t reflecting the actual numbers on map. I’ve run around checking nooks and crannies for the missing numbers, another couple of TCers did it tonight … And we can’t seem to locate the number of players that would equate to a queue. Honestly I’m quite OCD about how I look too … Systematically.

I see our players all over the place, they just aren’t organized. I highly doubt there is some conspiracy or bug causing us to have fewer players. A scattered force gets gobbled up by an organized zerg and disappears, leaving the illusion that we have fewer people.

Not when we have a queue on the BL and sor is spawn camping every conceivable exit.

Spent a lot of time in wvw since launch and yes I agree. We have no data so we can’t really “know,” but it doesn’t feel right. I’ve experience the same 30-40 minutes waits, then drop, relog, or re queue and I’m instantly in and there isn’t many people around.

DBR.9876:

Thrashbarg.9820:

If it is an organization issue, I can understand that, we are pretty free-spirited generally. I’ve got more tinfoil hat theories, which I won’t bother putting here, because if they are true, it’s just sad, and if they aren’t, there’s no reason to start rumors.

As a player on SoR, I have to say it’s almost definitely an organization issue. I can count at least 4 times in the past week where I’ve been walking alone back to a group or just roaming solo, where a TC zerg finds me and I run to the corner of a map that has no use to anyone, yet 15+ TC (twice a commander followed me as well in this group) chase me down for well over a minute to get a single kill. At the same time, your zerg gets strung out as a large number is chasing me.

Meanwhile, I have time to let everyone know over map chat where a large group of TC is and give a pretty accurate number as I have no allies that affect culling. I’m not stupid enough to suicide into a group of 15 TC no matter how survivable my build is and I pose an extremely small risk to your group. As you chase me, the strung out zerg makes very easy pickings for reinforcements when they do come.

This is not intended in any way to bash on TC, but I did want to put my input into this thread to know what it looks like from the other side. I love fighting against you guys and wish you all the best of luck in future weeks. With more organization, you guys can be a real force in WvW.

This unfortunately is too true. I’ve seen that a number of times just today. Commanders become more like baby sitters asking people not to chase.

TC does have its hardcore WvW guilds, but we also have a lot of people who are happy just standing in front of some keep pvping with randoms.

That said, it does seem as if our max population has been a bit low lately. At times in EB we’ve had a queue and yet have trouble getting 15 people together in a zerg.

Habib Loew.6239:

Hi all,

Queues are per map, per team – so there is a queue for TC players on the Eternal Battlegrounds and a different queue for TC players on each Borderlands, and a different queue for each of the other teams on each of the maps.

During the time it takes for players to change maps it is possible for there to be a queue even if there are less players in a map than the maximum capacity because the players taking up those empty slots are still “in flight” between maps. It’s also possible for a slot to take a while to fill if e.g. people see the queue pop, wait until the progress bar for the automatic transfer is almost empty, and then choose to renter the queue. At that point the system will move on and look for other players to fill that slot but all of that takes a bit of time. We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

So I don’t know where in the map those players are when you’re looking for them, but they’re definitely in there somewhere!

Perhaps it isn’t a queue issue. Maybe it is a max player issue. Could you look at that?

So another thread is saying there is 130 map pop on borderlands.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/WvW-Maximum-Player-Numbers/first#post1336696 (some say 100) either way, the other day on TCBL we had a hard time getting 20 people together despite calling everyone to Citadel, on a map where we didn’t own anything. Switching to an alt, I came back after a 5 minute queue. So where are the other 80-110 people? Harvesting? lol its just the experience of us that have waited in queue for a seemingly empty map. Maybe, just maybe there is something wrong when all of us are noticing it? <Maybe?

loopi.7913:

When you have no keep you can’t even get into the JP o_O! Yet I was still waiting in Queue…

Maybe they were feasting on Grubb?

Elthurien.8356:

loopi.7913:

When you have no keep you can’t even get into the JP o_O! Yet I was still waiting in Queue…

Maybe they were feasting on Grubb?

-_- ! lol

I know on TC I’ve queued for 45 minutes to get in to WvW and had a friend queue up after I did, wait 10 minutes and get in. To me, that’s very strange, why would anyone who queued after someone else, get in before them?

As for why only 20 people respond on a full map? Not sure, but I have seen a lot of people out roaming around, just hanging out at the keeps or in secluded places; not really participating in the attack/defense of locations. Hopefully things will straighten up and we’ll have more response once the current match is over.

Lanthrudar.1437:

I know on TC I’ve queued for 45 minutes to get in to WvW and had a friend queue up after I did, wait 10 minutes and get in. To me, that’s very strange, why would anyone who queued after someone else, get in before them?

This issue was meant to be fixed but is still there. I’ve had the same thing happen to me and its one thing that does make me wonder about whether there is an issue with the maximum population actually being on the map.

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Well there is definitely something wrong with the queues, I queued up for all the BLs on my server, waited 10 minutes and still didnt get in. So I clicked again and got in immediately.

Why was my second attempt to log in given first priority over the queued attempt for which I had been waiting for 10 minutes?!

I believe it only queues the last map you click on with a queue.

Lanthrudar.1437:

I know on TC I’ve queued for 45 minutes to get in to WvW and had a friend queue up after I did, wait 10 minutes and get in. To me, that’s very strange, why would anyone who queued after someone else, get in before them?

As for why only 20 people respond on a full map? Not sure, but I have seen a lot of people out roaming around, just hanging out at the keeps or in secluded places; not really participating in the attack/defense of locations. Hopefully things will straighten up and we’ll have more response once the current match is over.

This has happened to me very recently too, was waiting for 30mins + on reset and had a guild member queue up for the same BL and get in instantly.

Just putting this in this thread too .. one of my teammates speculated whether the new culling fix, where it renders player’s shapes ahead of time to help battle the culling issue, might be the culprit of these missing bodies on map. That something in the coding is taking up a spot on map for a player that’s not actually there – or duplicating the players somehow?

The only reason I’m suggesting it may be something to do with that is logical elimination … you look at what has changed over the past week to have an affect on things presently. We know there was a patch update to add this feature in, so I’m wondering if this isn’t part of what we’re seeing now.

Habib Loew.6239:

Hi all,

Queues are per map, per team – so there is a queue for TC players on the Eternal Battlegrounds and a different queue for TC players on each Borderlands, and a different queue for each of the other teams on each of the maps.

During the time it takes for players to change maps it is possible for there to be a queue even if there are less players in a map than the maximum capacity because the players taking up those empty slots are still “in flight” between maps. It’s also possible for a slot to take a while to fill if e.g. people see the queue pop, wait until the progress bar for the automatic transfer is almost empty, and then choose to renter the queue. At that point the system will move on and look for other players to fill that slot but all of that takes a bit of time. We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

So I don’t know where in the map those players are when you’re looking for them, but they’re definitely in there somewhere!

Could you please:
- first go IG and see by yourself
- second, stop assuming that we are complete butterflies. WE made the job seriously. People on vocal spread all over the map and all this kind of stuff. And we have several occurences of no more than 60 people from our server on the map, while having people stucks in queues for hours.

There is no doubt in my mind there is a serious flaw. Sometimes after queing to get into EB I enter to find a map seemingly devoid of a full population. When I’ve checked the jump puzzle there might be a few in there but nothing to match the disparity of waiting to get in and the lack of players actually on the map.

There really is a problem here.

Psykoyul. They do have Anet devs in game, have seen a number of them running around our server in WvW. You get more bees with honey m’dear. The fact that Habib took the time to let us know they’ve run tests was nice — they didn’t have to do that or let us know they did. I would imagine he’ll read this thread again today and take a poke around again. But as frustrating as it may be right now, it’s probably not a great idea to go on the offensive over it .. I know if I had the option of doing something on a long list of things that need to be done, I’d be more inclined to help out the folks who are being nice in their requests.

Bugged qeues…. happens all the time. Go to a different location and reqeue

He checked queue numbers, not population numbers. Last time I checked those aren’t the same thing.

Jayne.9251:

Psykoyul. They do have Anet devs in game, have seen a number of them running around our server in WvW. You get more bees with honey m’dear. The fact that Habib took the time to let us know they’ve run tests was nice — they didn’t have to do that or let us know they did. I would imagine he’ll read this thread again today and take a poke around again. But as frustrating as it may be right now, it’s probably not a great idea to go on the offensive over it .. I know if I had the option of doing something on a long list of things that need to be done, I’d be more inclined to help out the folks who are being nice in their requests.

^ this…

And… I have been thinking and feeling the same thing recently. The other day we held nothing, and a rally call for the citadel came out. 20 people tops gathered. Where else could the missing people be, there was a queue. Last night I had an idea. When someone in my group logs out inWvW, their icon persists on the map, for a long time. Is there any possible way that people who log out inside WvW somehow continue to take up spots? Like I said, just a thought, may be valid or not.

Thanks!