Guild Wars 2

Is there any news about whether you guys are considering increasing or removing the AoE limit? As it stands at the moment all groups have to do is stack on each other.

I don’t think there should be an AoE limit at all. If you are too stupid to get out of the fire you deserve to burn!

Farout.8207:

I don’t think there should be an AoE limit at all. If you are too stupid to get out of the fire you deserve to burn!

The problem is in culling. Youre standing there with your 10-20 buds and you see another group approaching that looks about the same size… you prepare to engage— and then bodies litter the ground. You’ve just been culling trained. Before you even saw your enemies you where killed by hammers and their crazy control effects, D/D mages and their insane burst, etc. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Farout.8207:

I don’t think there should be an AoE limit at all. If you are too stupid to get out of the fire you deserve to burn!

Hi, can you let me know where the red circle is for the following AOE?

Meteor Shower
Mesmer Feedback
Mesmer TimeWarp
Guardian Symbols
etc

@me im not

D/D elementalists don’t do damage because the only way to stay alive with the lowest hp/armor class in the game is by going full bunker. Full bunkers do garbage damage. A glass cannon D/D ele will literally die on inc in a situation like this.

I have told you in a couple of other threads that you are complaining about the wrong thing. I am good with you complaining, as long as it is reality based. Instead of worrying about a D/D bunker ele bouncing around and hitting you for 2k, you should be more concerned about the hammers hitting you for 8k or the rifle warrior hitting you for 15k

Yeah meteor shower doesn’t have a circle on the ground. Instead it has a huge, very obvious animation of fireballs falling from the sky that anyone can easily see. I wouldn’t worry about them too much, just because you are in the AoE doesn’t mean a meteor will actually hit you. It is pretty unreliable.

Sifu.6527:

Farout.8207:

I don’t think there should be an AoE limit at all. If you are too stupid to get out of the fire you deserve to burn!

Hi, can you let me know where the red circle is for the following AOE?

Meteor Shower
Mesmer Feedback
Mesmer TimeWarp
Guardian Symbols
etc

Nobody said anything about “red circles”, I said get out of the fire. When I see meteor shower falling from the sky, I get out of the way. All AoE limits do is promote the zergball mentality.

If the 5 man AoE limit was removed it would force people to break away from the safety of the zerg and actually fight against smaller groups. I think it would make for much better fights.

PS: I will add that I play a warrior so I don’t have much AoE capability in the first place.

They really need to do away with the AoE limit. In PWI (the last mmo I played), people were utterly foolish if they stood next to each other like herd animals. People were still able to not wipe if they played smart.

This game’s mechanic allows tomfoolery on the parts of its players.

Meteor shower does have a red circle.
It is bugged/crappy/whatever marking though, because when they use traits to extend their AoE, it fails to also extend the red circle.

In regard to AoE’s busting up enemy zergs & D/D Ele’s, I’d concur with Bunzy and Covenn. If anyone should know what AoE can do for you, it would be an ex-Irony Bright Wizard. We used to run Magus pull groups just to bust up zergs with AoE, take off the cap.

me im not.9357:

The problem is in culling. Youre standing there with your 10-20 buds and you see another group approaching that looks about the same size… you prepare to engage— and then bodies litter the ground. You’ve just been culling trained. Before you even saw your enemies you where killed by hammers and their crazy control effects, D/D mages and their insane burst, etc. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Culling seems to be the answer to everything. But you’re wrong. Even if you cant see your enemy due to culling you see your health bar dropping. If your health is dropping its time to move and dodge away.

Its so kitten simple to prevent AOE for a large group: just dont stand all in one place!

Ive played DAOC for ages and the first lesson learned for everyone in RVR was to spread out on INC. Guess what? It worked. It worked although AOE in DAOC was far stronger than in GW2.

Its so simple and effective to counter AOE just by NOT standing all in the same place.

Sifu.6527:

Farout.8207:

I don’t think there should be an AoE limit at all. If you are too stupid to get out of the fire you deserve to burn!

Hi, can you let me know where the red circle is for the following AOE?

Meteor Shower
Mesmer Feedback
Mesmer TimeWarp
Guardian Symbols
etc

lmao

Meteor shower has meteors raining
feedback is a giant kittening purple circle, sometimes its hard to tell whose side casted it, but just pay attention
TW doesnt do dmg
symbols do have the red circle, if they don’t they are friendly

Get rid of Aoe limit and introduce Aoe fall off dmg and heal wise, the further you are from center of Aoe the less dmg / heal you take.

I also think AoE should heve no limit, for damage or heal. They are area effects so if you are in the area deal with it… and yes avoiding AoEs on this game is very easy unless you have no room to dodge or in the middle of a zerg.

The idea of decreasing the effect if you are far from the center is very good.

I vote for this:)

No limit…you can even decrease the damage…just get the limit off from healing / damage/ boons.

AoE is AoE, limiting it to 5 means it is no longer AoE.

As said, if you are too kitten to notice a red circle on the ground, allies moving out of it whilst you stay in it, red numbers flashing over you, and your health decreasing along with any skill animations that come with the skill; then you deserve to die in that AoE.

Cake.4920:

Sifu.6527:

Farout.8207:

I don’t think there should be an AoE limit at all. If you are too stupid to get out of the fire you deserve to burn!

Hi, can you let me know where the red circle is for the following AOE?

Meteor Shower
Mesmer Feedback
Mesmer TimeWarp
Guardian Symbols
etc

lmao

Meteor shower has meteors raining
feedback is a giant kittening purple circle, sometimes its hard to tell whose side casted it, but just pay attention
TW doesnt do dmg
symbols do have the red circle, if they don’t they are friendly

Thats the thing. You can’t tell if it friendly or hostile.

Meteor shower has a red circle on cast but disappear after cast. AOE comming down but don’t know who the kitten it belongs to. Sometimes it obvious, something it is not.

TW does no damage, but it will inflict confusion due to combo field. Again, how the kitten do you tell if it hostile or friendly?

Some Gaurdian symbols are missing the red circle.

This is kind of off topic but they need to do a better job of letting us know which spells belong to which side.

I sometimes shoot at a feedback bubble thinking it is ours…

I completely agree with totally removing AoE limit and decreasing the damage/heal the further you are from the AoE. It should be perfectly logical that a zerg that stands in the center of your AoE would take some serious damage. Clustering up is far too advantageous at the moment, not only because of the AoE limit but also because it is ridicously easy to ress someone up when you’re all on top of eachother. And to me it doesn’t make much sense such playstyle is rewarded.

With culling in its current state if aoe had no limit youd see alot more QQ in the forums because people do not see the animation for any of these AOEs when its 30 vs 30 , if anything take away downed state because thats the major reason for a need of aoes hitting all players.

The other day we had a nice fight going in EB. It was probably 30+ on 30+. The fight went back and forth, siege was built…. siege was destroyed. The fight was out in the open, and people were fairly spread out. To be honest, it was a really fun fight. Then a commander ran behind a building and most of one side followed behind him… I watched them throw down some mass invis and run back around again… they stormed through the other zerg, hammers dropping, d/d mages dropping their fire/earthquakes… and within a few secs it was over. The bigger your zerg is when you culling/aoe and the faster you’re moving—- it takes almost no time to run through even a fairly spread out area and wipe out enough that the rest will have no chance… you guys can romanticize all you want about dodging away or standing apart… but reality is something different. Clearly, there are some who overly rely on these tactics here, and some who probably play on lesser tiers where maybe these tactics aren’t becoming the rule of the land…. but they are broken. Just how it is.

Also— to the guy who genuinely tried to sell me that the damage output of elementalists isnt on par with warriors….. lol. Elementalists can aoe and burst an opponent down like no one else. They have more mobility than most other classes can dream of to boot. Theyre not as good till you hit 80, but once you do and gear geared they’re insane. In a regular zerg, Id concede they’re not as useful as maybe a staff build that can AOE from range—- but in a culling zerg they’re a house because chances are your opponents will be dead before they can hit you.

Hammerhorn.1347:

With culling in its current state if aoe had no limit youd see alot more QQ in the forums because people do not see the animation for any of these AOEs when its 30 vs 30 , if anything take away downed state because thats the major reason for a need of aoes hitting all players.

You can decrease the damage of AoEs and still increase how many people it hits.

Sifu.6527:

Cake.4920:

Sifu.6527:

Farout.8207:

I don’t think there should be an AoE limit at all. If you are too stupid to get out of the fire you deserve to burn!

Hi, can you let me know where the red circle is for the following AOE?

Meteor Shower
Mesmer Feedback
Mesmer TimeWarp
Guardian Symbols
etc

lmao

Meteor shower has meteors raining
feedback is a giant kittening purple circle, sometimes its hard to tell whose side casted it, but just pay attention
TW doesnt do dmg
symbols do have the red circle, if they don’t they are friendly

Thats the thing. You can’t tell if it friendly or hostile.

Meteor shower has a red circle on cast but disappear after cast. AOE comming down but don’t know who the kitten it belongs to. Sometimes it obvious, something it is not.

TW does no damage, but it will inflict confusion due to combo field. Again, how the kitten do you tell if it hostile or friendly?

Some Gaurdian symbols are missing the red circle.

This is kind of off topic but they need to do a better job of letting us know which spells belong to which side.

I sometimes shoot at a feedback bubble thinking it is ours…

Since when did it become to much to ask for people to pay attention to their Health Bar. If you are getting hit by Meteors falling out of the sky and your health bar is taking dmg then move. If you see an enemy swinging widely and you aren’t sure the range of their attack you don’t stand next to him taking dmg saying I don’t see a red circle.

In fact I can’t think of a single PvP game that I have ever played that gave you a nice bright red circle to let you know to move out of the way. The only time I have ever seen that is in PvE stuff and they do that because there are effects that can 1 shot an entire raid.

I don’t know why people want developers to dumb the game down so much. It’s like people want the mechanics to be as simple as Rock/Paper/Scissors but with huge flashy effects when you lay down that paper.

Should stay, in the current way the game works and is being played, aoe without a limit would be 100% OP.

Just get 40 ele’s and keep aoe on the gate, no way any zerg what so ever will get through.

No, the limit is perfect.

me im not.9357:

Also— to the guy who genuinely tried to sell me that the damage output of elementalists isnt on par with warriors….. lol. Elementalists can aoe and burst an opponent down like no one else. They have more mobility than most other classes can dream of to boot. Theyre not as good till you hit 80, but once you do and gear geared they’re insane. In a regular zerg, Id concede they’re not as useful as maybe a staff build that can AOE from range—- but in a culling zerg they’re a house because chances are your opponents will be dead before they can hit you.

No, I am telling you that a D/D elementalist either does damage or has survivability. Not both at the same time. A cannon elementalist hits as hard as the other classes throwing out AoEs, but does it with 14k hits and light armor and no toughness. Running cannon as a d/d is what noobs do, and they die in 2 seconds when they do.

You are tyring to say that one class does everything at the same time, and that is simply fiction.

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

AoE is AoE, limiting it to 5 means it is no longer AoE.

This sums it up nicely, AoE, Area of Effect, not Effect partial Area. Anet need to stop catering to people that are to stupid to move out of the warning circle. I don’t think any game I have played has even given warning circles and yet this one has them and they still put a cap on AoE.

I don’t know who they are trying to cater to but its getting kittening stupid. Even a casual should be smart enough to move out of the red circle. E-sport my kitten

The box should have a disclaimer on it “if you IQ is higher then 5 then GW2 is to easy for you”

Nuzt.7894:

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

AoE is AoE, limiting it to 5 means it is no longer AoE.

This sums it up nicely, AoE, Area of Effect, not Effect partial Area. Anet need to stop catering to people that are to stupid to move out of the warning circle. I don’t think any game I have played has even given warning circles and yet this one has them and they still put a cap on AoE.

I don’t know who they are trying to cater to but its getting kittening stupid. Even a casual should be smart enough to move out of the red circle. E-sport my kitten

The box should have a disclaimer on it “if you IQ is higher then 5 then GW2 is to easy for you”

League of legends has circles around aoe and oops ain’t that like one of the biggest e-sports in history?

Aoe limit is there so people don’t 1 shot entire zergs. You don’t like zergs? GTFO of wvw than. WvW= zerg vs zerg and all about strategie, movement and timing. And that is what makes it so great. An there is room for smaller groups to cap camps, kill dollys and even 1 man parties are needed to scout the enemy zerg.

You don’t like any of these rolls than WvW ain’t for you.

ps.: area of effect, the area is still under the effect, 5 people will get hit anywhere in the circle. It is just limited to 5 people but it still is aoe.

teg.1340:

me im not.9357:

The problem is in culling. Youre standing there with your 10-20 buds and you see another group approaching that looks about the same size… you prepare to engage— and then bodies litter the ground. You’ve just been culling trained. Before you even saw your enemies you where killed by hammers and their crazy control effects, D/D mages and their insane burst, etc. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Culling seems to be the answer to everything. But you’re wrong. Even if you cant see your enemy due to culling you see your health bar dropping. If your health is dropping its time to move and dodge away.

Its so kitten simple to prevent AOE for a large group: just dont stand all in one place!

Ive played DAOC for ages and the first lesson learned for everyone in RVR was to spread out on INC. Guess what? It worked. It worked although AOE in DAOC was far stronger than in GW2.

Its so simple and effective to counter AOE just by NOT standing all in the same place.

But exactly that is the point, AOEs should force people spread out, but guess what, the 5 men damage limit on AOE makes people stay together, if 30 people stack each other 25 will not take damage at all from 1 aoe skill

if you dont want the AOE limit to be removed thats because you got comfortable being in the middle of a 20+ man zergball taking no dmg.

I have no problem with zergs but AOE’s should be able to dmg all players in that zerg so the zerg will learn to play smarter than just run in a ball from place to place.

MiLkZz.4789:

Should stay, in the current way the game works and is being played, aoe without a limit would be 100% OP.

Just get 40 ele’s and keep aoe on the gate, no way any zerg what so ever will get through.

No, the limit is perfect.

Yea because every server has 40 ele’s that are that coordinated on hand, at all times. If they have 40 elementalists doing that then they deserve to hold whatever they are defending. If your server is smart they will adapt to the gate being impassible and siege a few walls (if they really want that keep). Otherwise move on to a new target and keep those 40 elementalists from getting into the new target. It’s called strategy and it’s pitiful how little people think out of the box these days.

Server load may also be an issue here. Removing the 5 target cap could doubly (or more) increase the amount of packets sent/received, depending on the situation and how the information is bundled.

Ever been in a 3 way fight in Stonemist where you couldn’t use any skills due to input lag? Let’s up the potential damage calculations per unit from 5 to 200+ and see how that affects large battles……

Thrashbarg.9820:

Server load may also be an issue here. Removing the 5 target cap could doubly (or more) increase the amount of packets sent/received, depending on the situation and how the information is bundled.

Ever been in a 3 way fight in Stonemist where you couldn’t use any skills due to input lag? Let’s up the potential damage calculations per unit from 5 to 200+ and see how that affects large battles……

Anet needs to up their HW if the servers built for WvW can’t handle all that info with relative ease. It’s kind of the point of the game isn’t it?

Having the AoE limit in place is just one example of this game emphasizing superior number versus skill. Having a large group of mentally handicapped people go up against a structure designed to be defensible with intelligent defenders in said structure should end in failure for the attacking army. Our own real life history has many examples of this. Until they stop using kid gloves with GW2 players “Zerging” will continue to be the dominant strategy in WvW.

Some people are OK with this and I would say that most of the people that are OK with it are on servers that have the numbers to field large Zergs. Having larger numbers should in essence provide an advantage, but it shouldn’t be as much of an advantage as it currently is and therein lies the problem.

Retaliation would indeed become a problem if A-net were to remove the AoE cap. Perhaps they would need to introduce a retaliation cap afterwards instead, where a player can only take a certain maximum amount of retaliation damage per second or something.

I don’t think there should be an unlimited AoE range, but pushing it to 10-15 enemies wouldn’t hurt too much and would balance it a lot for people that run small skirmishing parties or just have a low population in general.

Orikx.9671:

As for the AoE limits. I’m not sure that removing it would fix the zerg balls. Retaliation is so strong and easy to get via combo fields that you’d just see AoE classes instant explode after 1 AoE attack because they’d be getting Retal from 40 people now instead of 5. Think of the old days when Arrow carts took Retal dmg. They would instant exploded from one enemy blast finisher because they were hitting 50 people.

Perhaps some nerfing to combo fields and/or retaliation mechanics might help with that? It would have to be handled carefully obviously but it could help with Zerging Combo field stacking being too powerful. However, it’s hard to say what can be done about that if anything should be. On the one hand I would say that’s a pretty intelligent counter to AoE and should possibly stay way as long as siege doesn’t take damage from retaliation. Maybe they can make it so you can only take so much retaliation damage at one time thus making it useful in protection from AoE but at the same time not making it instant death.

Okaishi and I are on the same page apparently haha

Why is this such a hard concept for ANet given their teams’ background?!?!?!

AOE damage or buffs should be ANYONE within the radius of AOE. Furthermore, much like what was done RIGHT in “another game”, the strength of the damage/buff of the AOE should be strongest at it’s center and weaken as it goes outward to it’s edge.

HOW HARD IS THAT TO DO IN THIS DAY AND AGE IN GAMING?!?!?!?!

AoE limit is one of the most stupid things in this game.
AoE means Area of Effect, that means that it should affect everybody in that area, not only 5 people. ANET is trying to make different and new things but they just making stupid things, seariously…

And if they dont want everybody killed by a single AoE they just have to remove the limit to the heals too.

MiLkZz.4789:

You don’t like zergs? GTFO of wvw than. WvW= zerg vs zerg and all about strategie, movement and timing.

lolwut?! Zergs and AoE and two wildly different concepts of the game!

Strategy? Well why dont people strategically move out of the AoE
Movement? Well why dont people move out of AoE
Timing? Well why dont people move whenever AoE is put down?

Seems to me that people who complained about AoE affecting everone in it have no strategy, cannot move, and have bad timing; the kind of player who expects that when they attack something they can stand there all day and feel they should not die whilst they go and make a cup of tea.

I’m in agreement that an AoE cap is rather horrid. Hell, it steals tactics from the combat equation. What’s that about Thermopylae? Masada? A skilled smaller group should be able to frigging well – Wreck. FACE. – on a larger one. Or at the very least hold their behinds at the door for a good while.
Makes me wish the game had food/water mechanics in place – so we could siege folks
the old-school way …

Bunzy.8674:

As it stands at the moment all groups have to do is stack on each other.

If they do this they are just dumb. A single Warrior Hammer train group will kill them all.

So much bad up in hur

Dabrixmgp.4758:

Bunzy.8674:

As it stands at the moment all groups have to do is stack on each other.

If they do this they are just dumb. A single Warrior Hammer train group will kill them all.

Can you get a video of this? Id love to see it.

covenn.7165:

me im not.9357:

Also— to the guy who genuinely tried to sell me that the damage output of elementalists isnt on par with warriors….. lol. Elementalists can aoe and burst an opponent down like no one else. They have more mobility than most other classes can dream of to boot. Theyre not as good till you hit 80, but once you do and gear geared they’re insane. In a regular zerg, Id concede they’re not as useful as maybe a staff build that can AOE from range—- but in a culling zerg they’re a house because chances are your opponents will be dead before they can hit you.

No, I am telling you that a D/D elementalist either does damage or has survivability. Not both at the same time. A cannon elementalist hits as hard as the other classes throwing out AoEs, but does it with 14k hits and light armor and no toughness. Running cannon as a d/d is what noobs do, and they die in 2 seconds when they do.

You are tyring to say that one class does everything at the same time, and that is simply fiction.

lol covenn i remember when the first D/D vids came out, next thing you know most elles started to try the build but kept their zerker gear. when i ran with a small group of a dozen or so i would simply dodge that ride the lighting or whatever it is they charge with, then hit him with a bull rush followed by a shield bash. it didn’t take long to realize that GC doesn’t work with D/D.

Bump for a net to fix a huge w3 issue. Great concept, but current state needs polish for obv reasons

I love GW and GW2 but it is very obvious that what should be and will be, as well as what should stay and what will stay, aren’t going to happen. Culling = poor infrastructure and wanting to deliver a service to the maximum number of people possible PERIOD. Skill effects hinder rendering so they have to be minimalized. Even players on the battlefield are too much at the current time – we can’t expect to have our cake and eat it too. We get our samples, and we can be thankful for them or get something else.
PvE works fine save for Dragon events but the bloodrage will not die anytime soon. WvW will get more perks to draw players and keep them interested in the game, whether they WvW regularly or not, but it will not make WvW what we veteran’s want. It will merely be that sample, the taste of what could be.

Majik.8521:

covenn.7165:

me im not.9357:

Also— to the guy who genuinely tried to sell me that the damage output of elementalists isnt on par with warriors….. lol. Elementalists can aoe and burst an opponent down like no one else. They have more mobility than most other classes can dream of to boot. Theyre not as good till you hit 80, but once you do and gear geared they’re insane. In a regular zerg, Id concede they’re not as useful as maybe a staff build that can AOE from range—- but in a culling zerg they’re a house because chances are your opponents will be dead before they can hit you.

No, I am telling you that a D/D elementalist either does damage or has survivability. Not both at the same time. A cannon elementalist hits as hard as the other classes throwing out AoEs, but does it with 14k hits and light armor and no toughness. Running cannon as a d/d is what noobs do, and they die in 2 seconds when they do.

You are tyring to say that one class does everything at the same time, and that is simply fiction.

lol covenn i remember when the first D/D vids came out, next thing you know most elles started to try the build but kept their zerker gear. when i ran with a small group of a dozen or so i would simply dodge that ride the lighting or whatever it is they charge with, then hit him with a bull rush followed by a shield bash. it didn’t take long to realize that GC doesn’t work with D/D.

Yeah man it was hilarious for a few weeks. It was like free bags were dropping at my feet in a burst of lightning.

Even now with some of the smartening up and gearing correctly, most of the ones riding the flavor of the month wave are free kills. Takes a little more effort, skill, and timing than other classes to pull off and they are a little confused when they can’t 1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2 and win.

You need an example? You don’t even need 10 necro’s to 1 shot a zerg, port them inside, lay down wells and zerg is gone, not even a death fase. The game would be completely broken. You can’t even dodge that kitten, because you are simply dead. I run a 3.3k armor 30k health warrior and I survived 1-2 seconds.

And yes, our guild can run 10 necro’s or ele’s or whatever we need. Without an aoe limit you can’t simply get into a keep/tower.

And please, why people don’t do it with arrowards? Are you a complete stranger to WvW, ever heard of a siege limit? And people are even doing it, more and more cata’s are used to siege keeps because your rams get insta downed because of the AC.

Why not use retaliation? It is a great skill yes, but got nerfed a while back ago. I does dmg based on your own amount of power and it is aroun 200-300 dmg for normal players, if you go powerhouse it can go to max 500dmg. Not much compared to the 1-3Ks raining on you.

Dodge the red circles? Which one is ours which one is going to kill me? Do you think there is only 1 red circle on the ground? Maybe in the low populated servers, but when I look at the ground, they are everywhere. A roll will save you from one and bring you straight into another one.

You want to split up zergs with aoe, so you don’t like the balls that are used right now. Splitting those balls up while make an impossible to coordinate fights where it is more 1 on 1 than anything else, atleast these balls give some strategy to the game. As soon 1 ball split up the other one, the fight is lost for the one that split up, because they brake into chaos.

Even with the 5 player limit we try to avoid aoe as much as possible now, just because it rips zergs apart already. Why not make them more OP by removing the limit.

Even forgetting past games and what they did. There was no AOE cap in BETA for GW2 and battles around keeps and towers were much more dynamic because of it. People were forced to spread out and to dodge out of aoes, it made for better gameplay. The current situation requires no skill to totally mitigate AOE, just clump up ftw.

There is no dodging in zerg vs zerg, no individualized thought process just clump up and spam your light fields/blast finishers and your ranged attacks.