Guild Wars 2

Mindvibe.4630:

first things first. stealth has no disadvantages. not one. dont insult peoples intelligence by trying to sell the idea that stealth is a complex thought process for a thief. it isnt.

It isn’t a complex choice for thieves because the majority of the time nobody will punish thieves for utilizing stealth. When you use an ability and your opponent just stands there or wanders off (still the most common response to stealth), there isn’t a downside.

Stealth has the potential for a good combat meta, but it won’t happen unless the opponent actually makes an effort to effectively fight it.

^The same principal count for Distortion Elementalist. You can burn his mana down or attack during the cooldown after de-active of the Distortion before nerf. Improving the blocking for Warrior for 5 sec cooldown and has 5 sec active aren’t gamebreaker either for you it seems. When you use an ability and your opponent just attack or wander off(still the most common response to block), there isn’t a downside.

Block has the potential for a good combat meta, but it won’t happen unless the opponent actually makes an effort to effectively fight it.

See what I did there?

Tulisin.6945:

Mindvibe.4630:

first things first. stealth has no disadvantages. not one. dont insult peoples intelligence by trying to sell the idea that stealth is a complex thought process for a thief. it isnt.

It isn’t a complex choice for thieves because the majority of the time nobody will punish thieves for utilizing stealth. When you use an ability and your opponent just stands there or wanders off (still the most common response to stealth), there isn’t a downside.

Stealth has the potential for a good combat meta, but it won’t happen unless the opponent actually makes an effort to effectively fight it.

Let’s take a counterexample to your claims, then.

Necromancers have a distinct advantage against the numerous projectile-hating skills of the Mesmer and Guardian because most of their skills are ranged, but no projectile.

Against stealth, however, they only have one real answer: swap to staff and drop marks. Once they have their four circles down, that’s it. If you get lucky you can locate a stealthed target, but by the time you can do anything to that location, the target is most likely already not there (as both mesmers and thieves have numerous mobility options, and a mesmer could trigger it with illusions).

When you’re a necromancer fighting a thief, you really don’t have much you can do other than hoping you timed death shroud properly to absorb their burst from stealth.

It is much more effective for a necro to drop a mark (or Well of Darkness with it’s minute-long cooldown) at his feet and wait for the thief to make a move because he simply does not have anything to attack a stealthed foe with.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Against stealth, however, they only have one real answer: swap to staff and drop marks. Once they have their four circles down, that’s it.

While marks are a good deterrent to stealth by dropping them near your feet, they’re a poor counter. Deter the thief without putting any pressure on them and they still get the full benefit of stealth with no real downside. Necromancers do suffer uniquely from ranged attacks that lack a projectile, but they also have one of the more effective stealth counters in minions (which tend to track and damage stealthed enemies after stealth and immediately when it drops). For actually hunting and killing a thief you’re probably better off using a dagger mainhand than a stave, since the higher-rate auto attack will give you more chances to hit (and thus determine the location of) the thief.
All in all the profession has some good stealth counters, even if they’re not common in the more popular builds.

WereDragon.6083:

Shroom Mage.9410:

Thieves should get the Revealed debuff if either they attack or are hit when in stealth.

Breaking stealth on damage, is a massive nerf. AoE and channeled abilities hit in stealth VERY easily. Shots already in the air when the thief stealth still hit. And there have been numerous times I’ve shot at air and watched a thief come out with bleeds on him.

Not to mention any sort of bleed, burning or poison would INSTANTLY break stealth. Thieves only have ONE condition remover involving stealth. ((Unless traiting))

Also in closing it seems like there are ALOT of WoW players here who want stealth to act just like Rogue’s stealth.

That’s not actually what I’m asking for, although I should have been more clear. They should receive the Revealed debuff upon exiting stealth if they were hit during stealth.

Alternatively, show damage numbers (perhaps with the exception of dots) when hitting a thief even when they’re in stealth. Damage should not break stealth, but a player should know if they hit an invisible enemy. The original plan was to make thieves flash momentarily upon taking damage in stealth like spies in TF2. If I had to guess, I’d say they removed this because of technical issues and not balance. If they brought it back, they could probably get rid of Revealed altogether.

Thief > Necro. Who says using Necro dagger for thief is plain suicide. Thief trade hits better than Necro and they got still mobile to boot.

Tulisin.6945:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Against stealth, however, they only have one real answer: swap to staff and drop marks. Once they have their four circles down, that’s it.

While marks are a good deterrent to stealth by dropping them near your feet, they’re a poor counter. Deter the thief without putting any pressure on them and they still get the full benefit of stealth with no real downside. Necromancers do suffer uniquely from ranged attacks that lack a projectile, but they also have one of the more effective stealth counters in minions (which tend to track and damage stealthed enemies after stealth and immediately when it drops). For actually hunting and killing a thief you’re probably better off using a dagger mainhand than a stave, since the higher-rate auto attack will give you more chances to hit (and thus determine the location of) the thief.
All in all the profession has some good stealth counters, even if they’re not common in the more popular builds.

LoL! Minions tracking the stealther aren’t a lot of help when you die in 2 seconds. I had chance the other day to see a thief momentarily right before I died while playing necro.

I was able to cast one mark and his next hit killed me. It went something like 7K steal, 7K CnD, then 12K backstab, I finally see them cast one spell and was killed by their auto attack probably. Not sure I had a pet out but what good would it have been?
Running around swinging daggers wildly at thin air would not have changed the end result.

Real fun ‘fight’ for me. I guess it may have been fun for them if they are the type of player who likes walking around ganking lowbies as a high level like you can in other games. Seems to be the type of player the Thief class attracts.

Yes Thiefs are OP, yes I play Thief.

In WvW a small group of thieves can completely cut off supplies. Even large groups of defenders are no counter to this strategy – they simply burst down the yak and vanish again. This needs to be fixed. Soon.

Brannoncyll.1978:

In WvW a small group of thieves can completely cut off supplies. Even large groups of defenders are no counter to this strategy – they simply burst down the yak and vanish again. This needs to be fixed. Soon.

Well to be fair, they need to be capable of something constructive for their server, and they’re rather lack luster at sieges.

Dual.8953:

Brannoncyll.1978:

In WvW a small group of thieves can completely cut off supplies. Even large groups of defenders are no counter to this strategy – they simply burst down the yak and vanish again. This needs to be fixed. Soon.

Well to be fair, they need to be capable of something constructive for their server, and they’re rather lack luster at sieges.

True. The issue though is that there is no counter to this strategy. Even with a zerg it is impossible to prevent a determined small group of thieves from bursting down a yak. The only preventative strategy is to surround the yak with friendly thieves and keep the yak under shadow refuge.

Tynan.6279:

Yet the Ele D/D does the same thing you describe —-They bail out and come right back with full health and you fail to mention them once, why not? Is it only the stealth?

Yes.

Dual.8953:

Well to be fair, they need to be capable of something constructive for their server, and they’re rather lack luster at sieges.

No they don’t; ninja assassin is great for PvE gaming, but not so much PvP gaming.

WereDragon.6083:

Also in closing it seems like there are ALOT of WoW players here who want stealth to act just like Rogue’s stealth.

Actually, I don’t want stealth in anything remotely PvP at all.

Thieves/rogues in every MMO are OP. Its really bad in this game because you can stealth WHILE in combat, where other MMOs you for the most part, cannot. Its stupid. Its like developers don’t know wtf they are doing when it comes to balancing in pvp, especially when it comes to thieves/rogues.

Stealth/burst/stealth/burst/stealth ad nauseam is pretty broken.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Thieves/rogues in every MMO are OP. Its really bad in this game because you can stealth WHILE in combat, where other MMOs you for the most part, cannot. Its stupid. Its like developers don’t know wtf they are doing when it comes to balancing in pvp, especially when it comes to thieves/rogues.

I’m a thief and I wouldn’t mind permanent stealth that cannot be used in combat. As long as there is one cool down skill that lets you slip back out of combat and into stealth on demand.

I admit that stealth is pretty broken in its current state. I think the culprit is cloak and dagger. It’s a spammable stealth skill that causes others to think thieves have permanent stealth while in combat. If stealth is kept the way it is. What I think should be done is have the cloak and dagger use a full bar of initiative, but stealth the user regardless of hitting some thing. Any one who disagrees with that is obviously using rendering issues as a crutch for pvp.

it’s…….. sort of funny. a guy makes a topic, people begin arguing, the guy comes back and flat out says he was trolling, he’s pretty much ignored and the arguing continues regardless.

I managed to kill 5 people solo and escape a level 80 thief today in WvW.

All with my level 12 thief. Honestly, the only reason I got away from the other thief is because I was a thief.

Dual.8953:

Brannoncyll.1978:

In WvW a small group of thieves can completely cut off supplies. Even large groups of defenders are no counter to this strategy – they simply burst down the yak and vanish again. This needs to be fixed. Soon.

Well to be fair, they need to be capable of something constructive for their server, and they’re rather lack luster at sieges.

Thieves can do great in siege combat, just not with the same “roamer assassin” builds used to gank people on the open field.

moirweyn.9872:

I managed to kill 5 people solo and escape a level 80 thief today in WvW.

All with my level 12 thief. Honestly, the only reason I got away from the other thief is because I was a thief.

You’re bumped to 80 though.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Karolis.4261:

Read what u just wrote …. Its a THIEF class and THIEF goes solo.

You haven’t explained why this is fair for the other classes.

IE. “why would I roll anything else but a thief if I want to do things away from the zerg?” is a bad question for the game to cause.

Is it fair that others can go in large and small groups and perform well?

Thief excels in smaller fights. Always has been that way and always will.

Archonis.7249:

TainoFuerte.8136:

Karolis.4261:

Read what u just wrote …. Its a THIEF class and THIEF goes solo.

You haven’t explained why this is fair for the other classes.

IE. “why would I roll anything else but a thief if I want to do things away from the zerg?” is a bad question for the game to cause.

Is it fair that others can go in large and small groups and perform well?

Thief excels in smaller fights. Always has been that way and always will.

Isn’t going in large and small groups the point of WvW – you know, teamwork? Being able to solo anything in a group environment via stealth and no real skill is not really fair. I’ve seen thieves in dungeons, and for the most part, they have no skill. All they do is die, unless they go support or something. So I guess the common thief/rogue is played by people that have no real skill and use stealth as a crutch?

Magiofdeath.2745:

I’ve seen thieves in dungeons, and for the most part, they have no skill. All they do is die, unless they go support or something. So I guess the common thief/rogue is played by people that have no real skill and use stealth as a crutch?

Could be. Could also be that thief is straight-up harder to play in some situations. Thieves are built to evade hits, not absorb them, so if you’re using dungeons as the measuring stick it takes a better thief to pull out the same effectiveness as another hardier profession. It is one of the quirks that pops up due to ANet’s design philosophy of giving everyone the same offensive potential with vastly different defensive mechanisms. A warrior and thief doing the same damage should have roughly the same survivability, but they’re going to have vastly different skill floors to attain that survivability.

But maybe you were just being rhetorical.

Tulisin.6945:

Magiofdeath.2745:

I’ve seen thieves in dungeons, and for the most part, they have no skill. All they do is die, unless they go support or something. So I guess the common thief/rogue is played by people that have no real skill and use stealth as a crutch?

Could be. Could also be that thief is straight-up harder to play in some situations. Thieves are built to evade hits, not absorb them, so if you’re using dungeons as the measuring stick it takes a better thief to pull out the same effectiveness as another hardier profession. It is one of the quirks that pops up due to ANet’s design philosophy of giving everyone the same offensive potential with vastly different defensive mechanisms. A warrior and thief doing the same damage should have roughly the same survivability, but they’re going to have vastly different skill floors to attain that survivability.

But maybe you were just being rhetorical.

So if they’re built to evade hits, why don’t they? I see a lot of thieves die in PvE content for reasons that could have been avoided by dodge rolling or evading. Did ANet not give thief enough evasion skills? The way most players play thieves has turned me away from making one. In PvP, all they do is use cheap hit and run tactics, which, to me, makes it seem like they use the stealth mechanic way too often and in cheap ways. In PvE, the ones I’ve seen die too fast so why would I want to play a class that apparently doesn’t have enough defensive tactics.

Magiofdeath.2745:

All they do is die, unless they go support or something.

Not in any of the dungeons I’ve played between pistol whip and black powder dungeons are pretty stupid easy on a thief and you always have your short bow with you.

Magiofdeath.2745:

So if they’re built to evade hits, why don’t they? I see a lot of thieves die in PvE content for reasons that could have been avoided by dodge rolling or evading. Did ANet not give thief enough evasion skills? The way most players play thieves has turned me away from making one. In PvP, all they do is use cheap hit and run tactics, which, to me, makes it seem like they use the stealth mechanic way too often and in cheap ways. In PvE, the ones I’ve seen die too fast so why would I want to play a class that apparently doesn’t have enough defensive tactics.

Do you know what mobs do when faced with black powder or pistol whip? They stand there and take it. Pve with a s/p thief is just stupid easy.

I think it’s sad folks even consider quitting over something silly as class balance that will most likely be addressed with some future patch.
This is always the case in any mmorpg, you think pvp in other games is more balanced or was at least more balanced at the same time after launch? just lol. Or patches in other games that broke pvp balance in favour of pve or the other way around? (I can draft up a list of imbalances in all other games I played but cba).
We’ll just have to make due with how it currently is and wait for some finetuning to the balance.
Personally I don’t have any problems with thieves as long as the amount of thieves I encounter is the same as the amount of people I’m running with (eg. 1v1 I don’t have issues but obviously 2 thieves against me usually doesn’t go that well and the same applies for teamplay).

good thieves are virtually unstoppable in wvw. if theyre downed it’s because they made a mistake.

Magiofdeath.2745:

moirweyn.9872:

I managed to kill 5 people solo and escape a level 80 thief today in WvW.

All with my level 12 thief. Honestly, the only reason I got away from the other thief is because I was a thief.

You’re bumped to 80 though.

But I am using level 10 gear, only have the first tier of skills unlocked with only two trait points allotted and had only been playing the class for 2 days.

All that makes a huge difference and I still felt OP.

It’s easy to feel OP in WvW as almost every player you run into is a PvE’r pretending to PvP. There are a few dueling clubs in WvW with players who are actually good at PvP. If you can find one of these you’ll see that there are players that will give you a run for your money with absolutely every class……and you can forget winning any of these fights with an up-scaled character lol.

Adaneshade.2409:

It’s easy to feel OP in WvW as almost every player you run into is a PvE’r pretending to PvP. There are a few dueling clubs in WvW with players who are actually good at PvP. If you can find one of these you’ll see that there are players that will give you a run for your money with absolutely every class……and you can forget winning any of these fights with an up-scaled character lol.

Exactly.

I mainly SPvP and Tourney. When I go into WvW with my group of 5 people to take supply camps, kill dolyaks, capture those veteran guarded waypoints and flank larger forces for our main force. When we run into other groups of like 10-15 people and wipe the floor with them it is obvious that they don’t SPvP. They don’t know how to deal with professions outside of zerg AOEing. When I get in a 1v1, even with my other professions. I never lose. Why? Because from my experience in SPvP it has taught me how to shut down other profession’s offense.

I find it hilarious when people complain about WvW balance, mainly it is the PvEers that are complaining. They are in a PvP situation, but it feels like PvE. So when they die, that salt of PvP in the wound of PvE makes them come in here and rage. Because they don’t know how to control their fights without an extremely structured script.

Thief/Rogue/Assassin types are always the first to get railed on and the first to get QQ, from PvEers trying to PvP. I think that it is due to most mobs, except for Skelks don’t stealth. So they have almost NO idea how to deal with them.

Signed Thiefs are OP

Binafus.8153:

Signed Thiefs are OP

Signed skill is OP. Please nerf.

Solution:
I request that ANet sends armed thugs to players homes that are successful in PvP, in order to make sure that the player is now playing blind-folded and one handed in order to make it fair for people with less skill.

I guess all Thief’s have more skill than other classes?

I have a level 80 Thief and do play it mostly but do care about the long term of this game Thief’s make other classes not happy for the most part because of their skill.

Don’t kid yourself. Why is it so hard for other thieves to be honest with themselves. It is culling/rendering combined with a general low skill bar requirement. It is boring how easy it is for me to the point I dont even play mine anymore.

I have largely stopped playing, largely because thieves are absolutely no fun to fight.

If they have you at a disadvantage, they win.
If you have them at a disadvantage, they poof and reappear far out of range and you’ll never catch them.

Fighting them is basically like fighting air, except I don’t see what they sacrifice for this ability. They still do more damage than anyone else and “glass cannon” doesn’t apply if you can’t see them to hit them. “Being invisible” is one of the best damage mitigation abilities in the game.

I think if thieves couldn’t stealth in combat at all, they would probably be a balanced class. Or if damage knocked you out of stealth, that might work.

It’s not thieves that are broken, it’s stealth. Stealth is also what makes mesmer portals so effective (that is, the mesmer stealthing through the fight to drop a portal behind the lines, amongst the siege).

Never really had a problem with thieves you just gotta slow them down. as for the stealth builds they do really low dmg and can never kill me 1 vs 1 it’s useless fighting them i just walk off.

i’m an elementalist with over 4k kills in wvw

nerva.7940:

good thieves are virtually unstoppable in wvw. if theyre downed it’s because they made a mistake.

as anet’s ‘masters of mobility’ this is how things should be. if you can’t stun/root one long enough to kill them, then they’re gone and it’s your fault for letting them get away.

The heretic.1052:

Never really had a problem with thieves you just gotta slow them down. as for the stealth builds they do really low dmg and can never kill me 1 vs 1 it’s useless fighting them i just walk off.

i’m an elementalist with over 4k kills in wvw

This……
The problem is the mentality “if X ability does less damage than Y ability, why would I use X over Y?” People neglect to slot and use their control abilities because they don’t show the ohmygawdnumbers! over your target.

It’s thread’s like this that actually make me worry if I’m a good or a bad Thief I wish people would complain less about Thieves and the burst damage it makes me self conscious.

I’ve started using my Stealth and Short bow more now anyway to help in large battles by Immobilizing nuking classes or Enemy commanders to be burst down by my side and secure the most badges we can if we make them fall back. I don’t understand why people seem to be set that Dagger/Dagger is the only thing Stealth Thief ever uses it’s really based on the situation in my opinion.

ChapDev.7650:

It’s thread’s like this that actually make me worry if I’m a good or a bad Thief I wish people would complain less about Thieves and the burst damage it makes me self conscious.

I’ve started using my Stealth and Short bow more now anyway to help in large battles by Immobilizing nuking classes or Enemy commanders to be burst down by my side and secure the most badges we can if we make them fall back. I don’t understand why people seem to be set that Dagger/Dagger is the only thing Stealth Thief ever uses it’s really based on the situation in my opinion.

Don’t get down on yourself as a Thief. Most of the people QQing are the superbads that run around with no Toughness and Vitality or Stunbreaks or CC or Solo in WvW and complain about getting 3 shotted by a Thief because they weren’t paying attention and looking are their shinies in their inventory or messing with the color palette or thinking that they we in a PvE zone.

My main is a thief and I hardly ever use stealth, as it’s an evasion based thief. But I have fought thieves that do, with my thief and engi, and they were never a big issue. I always see a thief stealthing as them telling me they are going to do a big hitting attack. I wish other professions had tells that obvious.

In my opinion, they should up the ini cost of C&D to 8 ini. The cooldown on stealth u-skills is usually high (50-60 seconds), so I feel the ini cost should reflect this as well. That way the thief really has a decision to make, as to whether it is worth using or not, rather than simply spamming it as often as possible.

But like I say, I don’t really have any issue with thieves and their stealth. It is player skill that gives me the biggest problems, which is how it should be.

Archonis.7249:

Adaneshade.2409:

It’s easy to feel OP in WvW as almost every player you run into is a PvE’r pretending to PvP. There are a few dueling clubs in WvW with players who are actually good at PvP. If you can find one of these you’ll see that there are players that will give you a run for your money with absolutely every class……and you can forget winning any of these fights with an up-scaled character lol.

Exactly.

I mainly SPvP and Tourney. When I go into WvW with my group of 5 people to take supply camps, kill dolyaks, capture those veteran guarded waypoints and flank larger forces for our main force. When we run into other groups of like 10-15 people and wipe the floor with them it is obvious that they don’t SPvP. They don’t know how to deal with professions outside of zerg AOEing. When I get in a 1v1, even with my other professions. I never lose. Why? Because from my experience in SPvP it has taught me how to shut down other profession’s offense.

I find it hilarious when people complain about WvW balance, mainly it is the PvEers that are complaining. They are in a PvP situation, but it feels like PvE. So when they die, that salt of PvP in the wound of PvE makes them come in here and rage. Because they don’t know how to control their fights without an extremely structured script.

Thief/Rogue/Assassin types are always the first to get railed on and the first to get QQ, from PvEers trying to PvP. I think that it is due to most mobs, except for Skelks don’t stealth. So they have almost NO idea how to deal with them.

+1

Thats so so true. There was a time i stopped to WvW for a bit and i jumped into sPvP…. (well, quite more then jumped since i’m rank 34 and i won several tournaments) some ppl were owning me pretty easily, but then i started to learn how to counter their builds and how to react quickly to dangerous situations, result was that when i got back to WvW i was like “omg these dudes die so easily”, there was a huge difference in matter of play-skill.
An exemple of a week ago:
a random group of 4,5 ppl of my server got owned by 2 thieves, i tried to help but was too late, so i disengaged and step back a bit until one of them came out of stealth to hit me, he popped basilisk venom…as soon as i saw it i had my finger ready, he used steal to stun me, before he could do anything else i was 900ft away….. he was kinda lost, he tried to catch me up and he got into my chaos storm, then i dodged his c&d and shattered him…. some sec later he was dead, and i had the second thief hitting me, some fight back and then he used Shadow refuge, after i pulled him out with temporal curtain he was screwed and he died.

so here we go, 1 alone made it where 4 failed. I’m not saying i’m the best pvper in the game for sure, just saying that maybe if you feel the need to QQ so much about something maybe you should try to see if you did something wrong.

I’m quiet tired to see all this complains…. and i’m not saying thieves arent good at all, i died by them too sometimes, but i cant stand ppl saying they are invincible.
Just on 1 thing i can agree…P/D is a cheap build for thieves…. i mean it has a low risk/efficency ratio, cause all they have to do is spam 1 from distance and stealth every time they can to recover and gain the sneak shot, but thats not OP for sure, since it has no burst you can just walk away if you are in trouble, or you can totally screw it with a high regen & condition removal build, tried it on spvp i had a spec with costant regen ticking for 160 and condition removal on heal…. i wasnt going under 50% hp.

cuge.5398:

Archonis.7249:

Adaneshade.2409:

It’s easy to feel OP in WvW as almost every player you run into is a PvE’r pretending to PvP. There are a few dueling clubs in WvW with players who are actually good at PvP. If you can find one of these you’ll see that there are players that will give you a run for your money with absolutely every class……and you can forget winning any of these fights with an up-scaled character lol.

Exactly.

I mainly SPvP and Tourney. When I go into WvW with my group of 5 people to take supply camps, kill dolyaks, capture those veteran guarded waypoints and flank larger forces for our main force. When we run into other groups of like 10-15 people and wipe the floor with them it is obvious that they don’t SPvP. They don’t know how to deal with professions outside of zerg AOEing. When I get in a 1v1, even with my other professions. I never lose. Why? Because from my experience in SPvP it has taught me how to shut down other profession’s offense.

I find it hilarious when people complain about WvW balance, mainly it is the PvEers that are complaining. They are in a PvP situation, but it feels like PvE. So when they die, that salt of PvP in the wound of PvE makes them come in here and rage. Because they don’t know how to control their fights without an extremely structured script.

Thief/Rogue/Assassin types are always the first to get railed on and the first to get QQ, from PvEers trying to PvP. I think that it is due to most mobs, except for Skelks don’t stealth. So they have almost NO idea how to deal with them.

+1

Thats so so true. There was a time i stopped to WvW for a bit and i jumped into sPvP…. (well, quite more then jumped since i’m rank 34 and i won several tournaments) some ppl were owning me pretty easily, but then i started to learn how to counter their builds and how to react quickly to dangerous situations, result was that when i got back to WvW i was like “omg these dudes die so easily”, there was a huge difference in matter of play-skill.
An exemple of a week ago:
a random group of 4,5 ppl of my server got owned by 2 thieves, i tried to help but was too late, so i disengaged and step back a bit until one of them came out of stealth to hit me, he popped basilisk venom…as soon as i saw it i had my finger ready, he used steal to stun me, before he could do anything else i was 900ft away….. he was kinda lost, he tried to catch me up and he got into my chaos storm, then i dodged his c&d and shattered him…. some sec later he was dead, and i had the second thief hitting me, some fight back and then he used Shadow refuge, after i pulled him out with temporal curtain he was screwed and he died.

so here we go, 1 alone made it where 4 failed. I’m not saying i’m the best pvper in the game for sure, just saying that maybe if you feel the need to QQ so much about something maybe you should try to see if you did something wrong.

I’m quiet tired to see all this complains…. and i’m not saying thieves arent good at all, i died by them too sometimes, but i cant stand ppl saying they are invincible.
Just on 1 thing i can agree…P/D is a cheap build for thieves…. i mean it has a low risk/efficency ratio, cause all they have to do is spam 1 from distance and stealth every time they can to recover and gain the sneak shot, but thats not OP for sure, since it has no burst you can just walk away if you are in trouble, or you can totally screw it with a high regen & condition removal build, tried it on spvp i had a spec with costant regen ticking for 160 and condition removal on heal…. i wasnt going under 50% hp.

I play P/D in WvW and SPvP and PvE. I feel like I am a tank and that is it. I am just outlasting and whittling down my opponent’s health. The only time I am in trouble is when I run into someone that knows how to cleanse and actually put it in their utilities or used combo fields correctly.

You are very correct, if someone just wants to leave the fight. They can lol. I try to compensate their exodus with equipping the SB in my swap section to try and keep up with them along with using dancing dagger.

Lots of bad players in WvW recently.

All the Thief’s on this thread how many 1 on 1’s do you lose?

My guess is around 2 percent of the time you lose.

Do you really think this is because you are so much better than everyone else?

Thieves should be hard to catch and kill and Anet gives them a lot of skills to help them which is fine because they can go down fast. My issue is when you use an elite control skill to catch them and they can shadowstep out of it then why bother. I was on a ranger and the thief was five feet from me fully visible and I used entangle skill. I rooted him and within one second he was out of the root and invisible and on his merry way. Supposedly you have to destroy the roots to get of them but he just stepped out of them. I was told he shadowstepped away. I have been able to root some other thieves and kill them with entangle. Stun and cripple they can usually shrug off as well. I think the issue is when you have five people trying to chase down a thief and they can’t see him or root him or stun him that people question the lack of any real balance in the game with thieves.

Archonis.7249:

I find it hilarious when people complain about WvW balance…

I find it hilarious when terrible gamers defend flawed imbalanced design, also known as QQing.

Archonis.7249:

mainly it is the PvEers that are complaining. They are in a PvP situation, but it feels like PvE. So when they die, that salt of PvP in the wound of PvE makes them come in here and rage. Because they don’t know how to control their fights without an extremely structured script.

Thief/Rogue/Assassin types are always the first to get railed on and the first to get QQ, from PvEers trying to PvP. I think that it is due to most mobs, except for Skelks don’t stealth. So they have almost NO idea how to deal with them.

Nonsense, the reason the thief class in particular recieves complaints is that it breaks a fairly fundamental PvP concept in MMORPGs of risk vs reward, there is simply too little risk for the class (especially in WvW), it is mind boggling how many more times I have got away with mistakes or misjudging the situation on my level 50 thief that I’m levelling compared to my geared out lvl 80 engineer or necro.

Thief/rogues are indeed often the first to get nailed in games, because devs keep using the flawed design of invisibilty + big burst + abilty to escape which is unblanceable.

Incidentally I spend most of time in PvP in MMORPGs, you’ll find the “QQing” comes from PvPers that want balance, it isn’t an issue for Pvers that can’t cope with getting killed they tend not to stay in PvP for long or they roll the thief/assassin class .

Phantom.8130:

it’s…….. sort of funny. a guy makes a topic, people begin arguing, the guy comes back and flat out says he was trolling, he’s pretty much ignored and the arguing continues regardless.

Hi there!

I can see you are new here and would like to welcome you to the internet! It is a vast and deep ocean of information. In the same way, its movement is as predictable as the tides.

Anyway, it is hard to say where thieves would stand without the culling issue. Personally, I would like to see that fixed before any class changes happen. The issue is that might take a while, so a patchwork interim fix could be implemented. Perhaps allowing wireframe models to appear (ideally with names above) which over-ride the loading priority of environmental assets such as plants/trees.

The only defense thieves have for their current mechanic is… wait for it… we are l33t, ltp. Really? That’s it? Respect to the thieves out their who recognise the current situation.

Thief advantages:
1. High(est?) burst and sustained dps
2. Reliable, repeatable escape mechanism
3. Best PvP finishers
4. Excellent mobility
5. Excellent rez survivability
6. Good healing on-hit and AoE
7. All other players appear to be clueless noobs, permanently

I run as close to an anti-thief build as possible. PVT, condition removal, retaliation, staff for spamming into possible thief locations to ‘apply pressure’, often on thin air. I may get lucky once or twice a night, but as has been said many times there is no hard counter to stealth. None. It’s a joke. Want to know why everyone runs in a zergathon? Thieves.

Anet has said repeatedly that culling is a very difficult technical problem and will not be fixed soon, if ever. That means there is one possible option to fix this ridiculous situation. I suggest a 2s cast time on all active stealth abilities and a 2s delay for passives. If Anet really wants to pull out the nerf-bat, how about toning down those healing abilities as well?

- request thread shut down –
its all useless talking anyway

Binafus.8153:

All the Thief’s on this thread how many 1 on 1’s do you lose?

My guess is around 2 percent of the time you lose.

Do you really think this is because you are so much better than everyone else?

Don’t know what you are doing wrong, but on my Warrior. I kill Thieves all the time in 1v1. I use dodge and CC oh and those stunbreakers. They work wonders. Also I kill Thieves on my Thief, Engineer and Ranger.

Here’s a story: a friend of mine first evening in WvW. I told him “you’ll die a lot to thieves, nothing much you can do about it; just be cool and wait for me to kill the thief and rez you”.

As predicted, he was targeted and insta-burst by thieves all evening long. Every time I rezzed him; overall he had a fun time; but by the end he was like “I already hate thieves”. That’s how a newbie that was babysitted feels about it. Imagine what it feels when you don’t have a friend to warn you about thieves and take care of them. It must be a terrible ordeal and I’m not surprised at all so many people have quit in disgust over thieves.