Guild Wars 2

So today I was killed by a thief 4 times in a row with 5 of my allies reviving and trying to take him out standing on top of me. Guess if he got away or not.

They are OP regardless of what all the thieves say, can you blame them for not wanting to lose their ez mode ? Most players will flock to any class that gives the best results with the lowest effort, its human nature.

Most people will take the easiest route to accomplish anything, thus the sheer number of thieves in this game.

Argue if you want but this is the sad reality of human nature.

And yes very good troll OP, I’m amazed at how many replies you got.

Carry on.

Nerf Thieves? You realize that we have been nerfed into the ground and our only viable specs are those that abuse culling or burst and kill in one hit? All of our specs also die in one hit, to anything. Maybe, if people actually played a thief, you guys can understand how frustrating that is that I’m forced to play a certain way in PvP. This game could use some balancing for sure, but so can every game. It’s not just so simple as coming up with a few ideas to nerf classes to fix or balance PvP. There are tons of variables.

The only problem with thiefs is invisibility. It just can’t be that a thief hits and you are not able to see him until 5 seconds later. Then goes stealth again and so on and on.. And then finishes you while in stealth and because it was so much fun not seeing the enemy your friends nearby wont be able to see, and kill him even after he finished you. Because finishing probably isn’t doing dmg so no need to take him out of stealth or maybe it’s just culling….
I dont think they do too much dmg, just with culling and lags and what so ever the period of stealth probably ist twice as long as intended.

Nuzt.7894:

They are OP regardless of what all the thieves say, can you blame them for not wanting to lose their ez mode ? Most players will flock to any class that gives the best results with the lowest effort, its human nature.

Most people will take the easiest route to accomplish anything, thus the sheer number of thieves in this game.

Argue if you want but this is the sad reality of human nature.

And yes very good troll OP, I’m amazed at how many replies you got.

Carry on.

You have not played a Thief, so you can sit down and shut up because you do not know what you are talking about.

The only reason Thieves were OP is because we could cap points in stealth, that is gone. Our burst is comparable to a Shatter Mesmer. Our armor and health suck causing, no matter what spec or how much toughness we have, to die in one hit. Our only viable specs are GC or a bannable offense. You think it’s fun for us to be forced into playing a certain way? The point of our class is evasion. We’re weak apparently, and we have to have form to negate damage and ways to escape easily.

Carry on? I doubt that you were ever in the military.

Carry on.

Iove.3902:

Nerf Thieves? You realize that we have been nerfed into the ground and our only viable specs are those that abuse culling or burst and kill in one hit? All of our specs also die in one hit, to anything. Maybe, if people actually played a thief, you guys can understand how frustrating that is that I’m forced to play a certain way in PvP. This game could use some balancing for sure, but so can every game. It’s not just so simple as coming up with a few ideas to nerf classes to fix or balance PvP. There are tons of variables.

Played one at level 5, 1 Utility, most people took zero effort to kill, and if I did make a bad decision I simply walked away from the fight with zero consiquences. Maybe I’m just that good … but I seriously doubt it.

Iove.3902:

Nuzt.7894:

They are OP regardless of what all the thieves say, can you blame them for not wanting to lose their ez mode ? Most players will flock to any class that gives the best results with the lowest effort, its human nature.

Most people will take the easiest route to accomplish anything, thus the sheer number of thieves in this game.

Argue if you want but this is the sad reality of human nature.

And yes very good troll OP, I’m amazed at how many replies you got.

Carry on.

You have not played a Thief, so you can sit down and shut up because you do not know what you are talking about.

The only reason Thieves were OP is because we could cap points in stealth, that is gone. Our burst is comparable to a Shatter Mesmer. Our armor and health suck causing, no matter what spec or how much toughness we have, to die in one hit. Our only viable specs are GC or a bannable offense. You think it’s fun for us to be forced into playing a certain way? The point of our class is evasion. We’re weak apparently, and we have to have form to negate damage and ways to escape easily.

Carry on? I doubt that you were ever in the military.

Carry on.

Whoa settle down there skippy, I was not trying to ruin your life. Ok Ok Theives are under powered, all the other players are just really really bad.

Nuzt.7894:

Iove.3902:

Nerf Thieves? You realize that we have been nerfed into the ground and our only viable specs are those that abuse culling or burst and kill in one hit? All of our specs also die in one hit, to anything. Maybe, if people actually played a thief, you guys can understand how frustrating that is that I’m forced to play a certain way in PvP. This game could use some balancing for sure, but so can every game. It’s not just so simple as coming up with a few ideas to nerf classes to fix or balance PvP. There are tons of variables.

Played one at level 5, 1 Utility, most people took zero effort to kill, and if I did make a bad decision I simply walked away from the fight with zero consiquences. Maybe I’m just that good … but I seriously doubt it.

Or your opponents were really really bad? Couldn’t be that could it?

Archonis.7249:

Nuzt.7894:

Iove.3902:

Nerf Thieves? You realize that we have been nerfed into the ground and our only viable specs are those that abuse culling or burst and kill in one hit? All of our specs also die in one hit, to anything. Maybe, if people actually played a thief, you guys can understand how frustrating that is that I’m forced to play a certain way in PvP. This game could use some balancing for sure, but so can every game. It’s not just so simple as coming up with a few ideas to nerf classes to fix or balance PvP. There are tons of variables.

Played one at level 5, 1 Utility, most people took zero effort to kill, and if I did make a bad decision I simply walked away from the fight with zero consiquences. Maybe I’m just that good … but I seriously doubt it.

Or your opponents were really really bad? Couldn’t be that could it?

Indeed it could be the case, but I prefer the me being awesome argument /flex.

You are not killing any level80 on a level5 Thief. No need to lie to get a class nerfed into oblivion.

If Anet is going to start destroying classes based solely on my opinion, then we have alot more to worry about then the current state of thieves.

Since I love sharing my opinion =) I believe culling needs to be addressed and fixed before thieves stealth should be touched. Their impact in wvwvw is minimal compared to over-all objective, well except dolyaks. I myself found using engineer with flamethrower/rifle w/ alchemy is a great way to counter thieves if you are that worried about them. Otherwise I recommend traveling with a group and plan accordingly. By the way my thief is only level 14 and don’t play him much =) Remember this game has multiple classes/builds; don’t be afraid to experiment and learn new things!

Nuzt.7894:

Iove.3902:

Nerf Thieves? You realize that we have been nerfed into the ground and our only viable specs are those that abuse culling or burst and kill in one hit? All of our specs also die in one hit, to anything. Maybe, if people actually played a thief, you guys can understand how frustrating that is that I’m forced to play a certain way in PvP. This game could use some balancing for sure, but so can every game. It’s not just so simple as coming up with a few ideas to nerf classes to fix or balance PvP. There are tons of variables.

Played one at level 5, 1 Utility, most people took zero effort to kill, and if I did make a bad decision I simply walked away from the fight with zero consiquences. Maybe I’m just that good … but I seriously doubt it.

I think you’re confusing Thieves with Liars. Please, capture some video of you owning as a level 5 thief in wvw, I’d love to see it.

Its interesting that you feel I had some super secret lvl 5 rotation, I literally spammed 1-5, my heal and blinding powder.

Thats really the point right there I spammed mindlessly and achieved greatness!

Nuzt.7894:

Its interesting that you feel I had some super secret lvl 5 rotation, I literally spammed 1-5, my heal and blinding powder.

Thats really the point right there I spammed mindlessly and achieved greatness!

I think that someone is lying or killed someone AFK.

Thief is rather easy to play and very effective vs new/squishy solo players. A bad glass canon thief will kill a bad glass canon other class. Since the game is still new and glass canon is a popular build choice, thieves get lots of easy targets.

I also see a lot of solo players that aren’t properly geared for roaming (glass canon staff eles, uplvled players, etc. )

That being said, there are still some issues that should be looked into. (heartseeker being too spammable, stealth being OP mainly due to culling, etc. )

Hmm… lets see. If culing adds 2 secs of extra stealth which it is not supposed to. Why dont we jyst reduce stealth time to compensate? Makes perfect sense. Devs wouldnt even need to make all the effort to fix the gane engine.

Toughness+healing+caltrops+stealth+attack skills = invincible in pvp. Theives are OP by far. Conditions then into perma stealth. Not much you can do but die.

Fix stealth and the class will be balanced.

KensaiZen.3740:

Hmm… lets see. If culing adds 2 secs of extra stealth which it is not supposed to. Why dont we jyst reduce stealth time to compensate? Makes perfect sense.

because culling doesn’t happen every where. it doesn’t happen in pve, it doesn’t happen in spvp, and it doesn’t happen in WvWvW(when you’re 1v1 or in a small group). this bug only happens around zergs in wvwvw.

does it really make ‘perfect sense’ to cripple the class in all those other aspects because of a bug in wvwvw? some stealths only last for 2 seconds. so that means zero stealth time? lol some stealths only last for 3 seconds. so that means only a 1 second stealth?

High DPS + Stealth + Fast Escape = Over Powered

Culling just makes it worse,

Raincrow.1840:

High DPS + Stealth + Fast Escape = Over Powered

Culling just makes it worse,

Yep. Take away one and there would be a lot less complaints. But I prefer a bit of all 3.

Reduce DPS. Make damage pop them out of stealth add a timer where they cannot restealth for like 10 seconds. Make them move like 1/4 normal speed when stealthed. Make them have to get in really close to attack from stealth…like 50 or maybe 100 units. Get rid of the shortbow teleport so they can’t escape as easily when they fail an attack. Bet we would see a lot less complaints and reduced number of thieves.

Wouldn’t hurt to make a class a stealther hunter. Like give ranger pets, or least some of them, an ability to find and pop stealthers.

As a thief I can take on any profession 1v1 easily (unless I’m fighting a skilled player), I can escape from zergs (providing I see them of course) and can solo scout deep into enemy terratory without too much trouble. I can help my team deal damage to multiple foes and can provide them with blind to help CC. I can supply a tiny amount of healing and can stealth allies when needed.

They are geared towards 1v1 combat and escaping. They are average at helping teams fight multiple foes, but they lack in strong supportive skills (they can support, but not as good as others).

As my engineer I can take on all professions fairly easily 1v1, but not as easily as the thief. I cannot escape from zergs, unless I have a good headstart and tend not to scout without at least 1 other player. I deal very good damage to multiple foes and have excellent range. I can provide a lot of CC to help the team and a lot of support options too.

They are geared toward team play and defending areas. They are good at helping teams fight multiple foes and have strong support skills. They lack in 1v1 fight against certain professions, but a skilled player can do well.

Every profession has strengths and weaknesses. It is down to you to use, compensate and counter them. I have fought thieves as my engi and won, more times than I have lost. But if I fight a skilled thief as my engi, it is likely the thief will win or I won’t be able to defeat them. And that is perfectly ok with me, as that is how it should be. I can support my team much better than a thief can as my engi, and can damage and control multiple foes a lot better, and as a theif I am totally ok with that too.

When a thief stealths with C&D, I dodge back immediately and drop glue shot just infront of me. I then swap to the flamethrower and use Smoke Vent while moving backwards. If the CC hits he will decloak before they wear off, which I then follow up with Air Blast to knock them back. I then switch to grens and lay down Freeze Gren and Flash Gren, to slow and blind them again. I may even throw Poison and Shrapnel at them if they are not removing my CC. I then switch back to pistols or Elixir gun to stack some DoTs on them. By this time I have usually dropped their health to half, if not more (depending on their stats), and they have done very little to me. If they persists, I just swap between my kits and use toolbelt skills, to knock them back, blind and slow them as much as possible, then stack DoTs between their dodges and stealths. So long as I stay mobile and try to make it difficult for them to get their backstabs off to the full effect, I usually do ok. Another thing to remember, is that a stealth based thief is most likely a glass cannon build, that will not want to take too much damage, so surround yourself with hard hitting AoE attacks to discourage them from getting close to you.

I’m not trying to blow my own trumpet here, this is just my experience of the thief. I’m also not saying the thief is perfect either. EVERY profession needs tweaking, and I am sure Anet is always working on this. But they are not as OP as some make out. The only adjustments I feel the thief needs, with regards to stealth at least, is as I mentioned earlier. Increase the ini cost of C&D to 8-10 ini. That way they cannot keep spamming it as often as some do. Alternatively, make the stealth debuff effect the thief EVERY time they destealth, not just when they hit with an attack. That will ensure they do not spam it more then every 3 seconds, and gives players who struggle with stealth more of a chance to deal with it, without it effecting the thief too negatively. The thief will still be able to escape most fights with these adjustments.

Nuzt.7894:

They are OP regardless of what all the thieves say, can you blame them for not wanting to lose their ez mode ? Most players will flock to any class that gives the best results with the lowest effort, its human nature.

Most people will take the easiest route to accomplish anything, thus the sheer number of thieves in this game.

Argue if you want but this is the sad reality of human nature.

And yes very good troll OP, I’m amazed at how many replies you got.

Carry on.

Yes, there are EZ-Mode builds for thief, but they are only effective vs complete noobs. There are also very complicated builds. (I want to see the people saying all thieves are EZmode try out a S/D build or a D/P build once….). Most of the people who say “yes I tried a thief in sPvP” played D/D backstab, by far our most noob friendly build.

Draymos.5489:

Well I never been a pvper so Wvw is just there for me for karma and badges. Anet forces people to participate in Wvw whethere they want or not if you want legendary weapons. So people will be upset over classes that come out of nowhere and own multiple people without no recourse.

I didn’t want to do dungeons, but I was forced to do dungeons to get my legendary. I like to do WvW. Seems fair.

Choko.6821:

Thief > Necro. Who says using Necro dagger for thief is plain suicide. Thief trade hits better than Necro and they got still mobile to boot.

Depends on the player:

Hmm Thieves aren’t that bad. I do think addressing the culling issue will help a lot in making the class a bit more consistent to fight against. Other than that I think the Thief class is working as Anet intended, even if I don’t quite agree with their design.

It really makes me laugh when I hear thieves say, “OMG you don’t play a thief, you dont’ know how hard it is!” and various other nonsense…

I PLAY A THIEF!

THEY ARE OP!

IT’s the culling.

Quit trying to justify the OPness people, it’s not gonna work.

I play a level 80 thief as one of my characters. It’s completely OP and needs a fix on the stealth side. The player culling especially is what makes them unkillable if you use a certain build. Completely hilarious when you’re not on the receiving end but it’s sad at the same time how something like this still hasn’t been fixed.

Arenanet, please fix thieves so I don’t feel like I’m using a cheat/god mode when playing WvW.

Keep thieves the way they are, I don’t care but you know what I do care about… an ability to counter stealth, even if it’s nothing more then making the thief unable to “disappear” for 2-3 seconds after being marked by an attack or ability.

One of the problems with open world PvP games is that a certain portion of PvP population love to feast on easy targets(with what are deemed OP toons) which in turn makes those players not enjoy PvP and leave… thus killing the influx of new players which are needed to keep PvP enjoyable and sooner or later the open world PvP portion of a game basically disappears.

EvilSardine.9635:

I play a level 80 thief as one of my characters. It’s completely OP and needs a fix on the stealth side. The player culling especially is what makes them unkillable if you use a certain build. Completely hilarious when you’re not on the receiving end but it’s sad at the same time how something like this still hasn’t been fixed.

Arenanet, please fix thieves so I don’t feel like I’m using a cheat/god mode when playing WvW.

Go P/P and test just how good a thief you can be. 10 times more fun to dodge roll repeatedly and unload all up in dem faces.

People who constantly complain about thieves when it is 100% known that their main issue is culling and the crying party is running a glass cannon and or pve build are just trolls or bad players. I hope this helps . lol

FourTwenty.4268:

KensaiZen.3740:

Hmm… lets see. If culing adds 2 secs of extra stealth which it is not supposed to. Why dont we jyst reduce stealth time to compensate? Makes perfect sense.

because culling doesn’t happen every where. it doesn’t happen in pve, it doesn’t happen in spvp, and it doesn’t happen in WvWvW(when you’re 1v1 or in a small group). this bug only happens around zergs in wvwvw.

does it really make ‘perfect sense’ to cripple the class in all those other aspects because of a bug in wvwvw? some stealths only last for 2 seconds. so that means zero stealth time? lol some stealths only last for 3 seconds. so that means only a 1 second stealth?

Lol perma stealth happens everywhere. Funniest thing is you claim it doesnt happen in sPvP. Do you even play sPvP? Its worse in sPvP then it is in WvW. Perma stealth thieves holdind points by killing anyone that tries to take it. No not OP at all.

Stealth is supposed to be an escape mechanic not a get out of jail free card. The ability to remove targetting is powerful when combined with the thiefs speed. Add stealth in there an its a garauntee escape.

A 1 second stealth turns into a 2 second stealth with culling or lag. I dont think the devs factored in the extra 2 seconds for culling and lag on skill design.

The theif has tonnes of skills to create distance from the enemy. They can easily escape without stealth as it is.

KensaiZen.3740:

FourTwenty.4268:

KensaiZen.3740:

Hmm… lets see. If culing adds 2 secs of extra stealth which it is not supposed to. Why dont we jyst reduce stealth time to compensate? Makes perfect sense.

because culling doesn’t happen every where. it doesn’t happen in pve, it doesn’t happen in spvp, and it doesn’t happen in WvWvW(when you’re 1v1 or in a small group). this bug only happens around zergs in wvwvw.

does it really make ‘perfect sense’ to cripple the class in all those other aspects because of a bug in wvwvw? some stealths only last for 2 seconds. so that means zero stealth time? lol some stealths only last for 3 seconds. so that means only a 1 second stealth?

Lol perma stealth happens everywhere. Funniest thing is you claim it doesnt happen in sPvP. Do you even play sPvP? Its worse in sPvP then it is in WvW. Perma stealth thieves holdind points by killing anyone that tries to take it. No not OP at all.

Stealth is supposed to be an escape mechanic not a get out of jail free card. The ability to remove targetting is powerful when combined with the thiefs speed. Add stealth in there an its a garauntee escape.

A 1 second stealth turns into a 2 second stealth with culling or lag. I dont think the devs factored in the extra 2 seconds for culling and lag on skill design.

The theif has tonnes of skills to create distance from the enemy. They can easily escape without stealth as it is.

Culling does not affect SPvP.

YOU Apparently don’t play very much SPvP or you wouldn’t of said something so ridiculous.

A Stealthed Thief isn’t capping any points, also you are a Guardian. So tell me, why are you having problems with Thieves?

I think most people who cry about the distance thieves can put on them are not so mad that thieves are Op but mad they did not get a kill. Any thief who is putting tons of distance between you and them without stealth A: isn’t doing damage to you B: they are using all of their initiative to do it C: Every class has a way to stop this or at least minimize it.

lol thieves OP. Play against a good skilled D/D ele.

Fiction.6418:

I think most people who cry about the distance thieves can put on them are not so mad that thieves are Op but mad they did not get a kill

bingo! very smart man right here. people just get kitten when they die and get kitten when they dont get the kill.

nothing more to see here

Great thread. Loved how the thread starter admitted he was trolling, and the mob still hasn’t caught on to it.

Thieves are fine and its quite frankly just a l2p issue.

Some FYI’s:

Increasing the ini cost of CnD will pretty much kill all versatility with the class. Already you can only use 2 CnD per full ini bar unless you have spent your traits on it

But if you look your traits to increase this are in lines that do not pertain to burst damage /holywtfbbqsauceinthaface!!!

Its the reason p/d cond builds are FAR superior to BS builds

Welp continue mindlessly arguing about something Anet officially said STFU about….I’ll enjoy reading more

Jinks.2057:

Great thread. Loved how the thread starter admitted he was trolling, and the mob still hasn’t caught on to it.

Thieves are fine and its quite frankly just a l2p issue.

Some FYI’s:

Increasing the ini cost of CnD will pretty much kill all versatility with the class. Already you can only use 2 CnD per full ini bar unless you have spent your traits on it

But if you look your traits to increase this are in lines that do not pertain to burst damage /holywtfbbqsauceinthaface!!!

Its the reason p/d cond builds are FAR superior to BS builds

Welp continue mindlessly arguing about something Anet officially said STFU about….I’ll enjoy reading more

lol so many threads about thieves being OP who cares if it is a troll or not at this point, personally I skip to the end tell them they’re wrong and depending on my mood sometimes say l2p

Loki.1524:

Thief advantages:
1. High(est?) burst and sustained dps
2. Reliable, repeatable escape mechanism
3. Best PvP finishers
4. Excellent mobility
5. Excellent rez survivability
6. Good healing on-hit and AoE
7. All other players appear to be clueless noobs, permanently

1. Highest burst DPS in the 1-2 second timeframe due to thieves’ F1 mechanic being instant.
2. Yes, but mobility is what you’re thinking of, stealth itself is a weak escape mechanism.
3. In the form of Quickness stomps, yes, but this is shared with several professions. Stealth stomps are one of the weaker modified stomps and thieves don’t have easy access to stability or invulnerability stomps. The best thing thieves have going for them in terms of finishers is, again, being able to instantly burn their F1 mechanic to catch people who’ve moved away while downed.
4. Yes, mobility is easily the thieves’ greatest strength.
5. The thief won’t live long enough to use #3 against a single competent opponent, just like most professions. Like most thief skills, the downed skills are rather mediocre except when faced with opponents that have no idea how they work. The greatest attribute thieves have when downed in WvW is the ability to get back across friendly lines.
6. On-hit healing builds rely on food, and seeing them in WvW is rare due to how useful other healing skills are. If you’re getting decimated by a life-leech thief, bravo to them for mastering a much rarer thief play style.
7. Not true, but as mentioned in #5 thieves scale with skill better than most professions. They are definitely more able to exploit clueless noobs via misdirection.

The only people who are standing up for thiefs being so broken(maybe not due to class design, but by culling) are thieves themselves.

I don’t have a problem with thieves dps, their escape mechanism is powerful but it’s fine. Invisibility(as I said, due to the culling) is absolutely broken. You attack them for 6 seconds, they get out of invisibility, you see the projectiles, but they haven’t rendered yet, you finally see them, oh nice, fully healed, 6 seconds later, invis again, rinse and repeat. I’ll be honest, I have a thief alt and while playing it, I feel like I’m a skilled player, then like all other non-thief dedicated players realize, It’s the mechanism, not the player and I’m a scrub again. Y-eah no, I don’t need to l2p, my class isn’t broken though.

Cloud.7613:

The only people who are standing up for thiefs being so broken(maybe not due to class design, but by culling) are thieves themselves.

I don’t have a problem with thieves dps, their escape mechanism is powerful but it’s fine. Invisibility(as I said, due to the culling) is absolutely broken. You attack them for 6 seconds, they get out of invisibility, you see the projectiles, but they haven’t rendered yet, you finally see them, oh nice, fully healed, 6 seconds later, invis again, rinse and repeat. I’ll be honest, I have a thief alt and while playing it, I feel like I’m a skilled player, then like all other non-thief dedicated players realize, It’s the mechanism, not the player and I’m a scrub again. Y-eah no, I don’t need to l2p, my class isn’t broken though.

A lot of thieves defend their class because we keep getting suggested “fixes” and “nerfs” for our class from players who obviously know nothing about thieves and come up with the most ludicrous ideas of how to “fix” us.
Equivalent to suggesting things like “Ele’s shouldn’t be able to attunement swap in combat” or “Guardians shouldn’t have access to Protection, Aegis and Stability”

Dual.8953:

Cloud.7613:

The only people who are standing up for thiefs being so broken(maybe not due to class design, but by culling) are thieves themselves.

I don’t have a problem with thieves dps, their escape mechanism is powerful but it’s fine. Invisibility(as I said, due to the culling) is absolutely broken. You attack them for 6 seconds, they get out of invisibility, you see the projectiles, but they haven’t rendered yet, you finally see them, oh nice, fully healed, 6 seconds later, invis again, rinse and repeat. I’ll be honest, I have a thief alt and while playing it, I feel like I’m a skilled player, then like all other non-thief dedicated players realize, It’s the mechanism, not the player and I’m a scrub again. Y-eah no, I don’t need to l2p, my class isn’t broken though.

A lot of thieves defend their class because we keep getting suggested “fixes” and “nerfs” for our class from players who obviously know nothing about thieves and come up with the most ludicrous ideas of how to “fix” us.
Equivalent to suggesting things like “Ele’s shouldn’t be able to attunement swap in combat” or “Guardians shouldn’t have access to Protection, Aegis and Stability”

I agree.

I also think (I have full exotic geared Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, and Elementalist) that despite the fact that thieves can burst so hard, they are NOT overpowered.

My warrior, for example, can burst far harder with a rifle. Kill shot can crit as hard as backstab used to be able to crit, before the A-sig nerf. It’s 1500 range, not melee.

But it has been said that DPS is fine.

So what about stealth? Stealth isn’t broken. For a good player a thief who keeps stealthing is an annoyance, nothing more. The problem results from players who think they should be able to chase down and kill every other class. That’s a misguided “Leroy Jenkins” approach to combat, and should not factor into balancing.

Stealth is a survivability tool for thieves. Without it, the class cannot function. If you want damage to break stealth, you will need to make stealth more powerful (have stealth break combat, etc) which would require a complete reworking of the mechanic. If you want stealth to be more limited; it’s already extremely limited. Play a thief, because you obviously haven’t. If you think culling is the issue, then there’s no debate about thieves left to be had, for obvious reasons.

If you want to remove stealth from the game, you will need to increase thief survivability. Do you really want thieves to have, say, twice the endurance of every other class? How about toughness/vitality to match other classes? How about heals to match other classes? How about Ranged damage to match other classes?

If you think thieves are OP now, you have no idea what will happen if you balance them without stealth.

Thieves do not need a nerf. Other classes need buffs, but thieves do not need nerfs.

Uh Oh!!! I’m in trouble. This 20 man group is going to kill me. Yep I have 100 hp left.

I’ll just stealth and get away.

I call BS on stealth.

Zatria.5783:

Uh Oh!!! I’m in trouble. This 20 man group is going to kill me. Yep I have 100 hp left.

I’ll just stealth and get away.

I call BS on stealth.

You should be calling BS on mobility. If the thief isn’t more mobile than you then it isn’t hard to go kill them. They’re most likely bee-lining away from your group in a straight line towards friendly territory.

If the thief is more mobile than all 20 people, it wasn’t the stealth, they would’ve gotten away in plain sight because you can’t catch them.

Burst is to much, you cant see it comming and you cant evade it. Your first warning that a Thief is on you is the fact half your healthbar is suddenly missing. According to my combatlog it was because of Unknown. But i know better… it was a Thief!

Just nerf the oneshot builds and give them some more choice in substained builds. Ow, and for the love of nerf their escapes! Yesterday i fought and beat the same Thief 7 times, i killed him not once but he just ran away and reset the fight 7 times. Thats as close to beating a Thief you can get.
And thats just 1 little example. Actually killing a Thief gives me a lot of satisfaction cause its so rare, but then i quickly realize its because he screwed up or went afk in the middle of the fight or something.

Poof, cloud of smoke. Next time you see him, if he is even within render distance, is all the way over there! Seriously, Ussain Bolt aint got kitten on Thieves.

But since Arenanet just buffed Thieves escape tools last patch, it seems to be unintented that they actually die.

if they ever nerf the burst, bunker builds will rule spvp/tpvp. so those will have to be toned down a LOT.

but we’ll see how it pans out

Zatria.5783:

Uh Oh!!! I’m in trouble. This 20 man group is going to kill me. Yep I have 100 hp left.

I’ll just stealth and get away.

I call BS on stealth.

Stop trying to kill soloers with your 20 man zerg? :-P

Rin.1046:

As my engineer I can take on all professions fairly easily 1v1, but not as easily as the thief. I cannot escape from zergs, unless I have a good headstart and tend not to scout without at least 1 other player. I deal very good damage to multiple foes (grenades) and have excellent range. (grenades) I can provide a lot of CC to help the team (grenades) and a lot of support options too. (vulnerability stack from traited grenades)

They are geared toward team play (requiring others to pickup slack) and defending areas. (walls in WvW with grenades or bunkerbombs for SPvP; turrets suck.) They are good at helping teams fight multiple foes (grenades) and have “strong” support skills. (Elixir S) They lack in 1v1 fight against certain professions, but a skilled player can do alright.

Every profession has strengths and weaknesses.

Fixed that for you

Thief are not OP. Their stealth+game engine makes them broken.

Or if you look at it in terms of balance. They have highest damage, highest mobility, AND can go invisible.

There is no negative side of their play style. They can pretty much kill most people as they like because their is not negative to them being high damage or their high mobility or their stealth.

The combination of these three elements is what makes them seem OP when in fact its their stealth ability alone which makes them broken.

They should be moving -75% mobility when in stealth as you have to “sneak” behind someone to back stab them, not sprinting to them. Escape also removes targeting which is pretty powerful as it is combined with their mobility but to be invisible completely and only appearing well out of 1200 range is stupidly powerful. 100% garauntee escape.

Every class has their strengths and weaknesses but where is the weakness of a thief?

The problem is now that the population of thieves is really starting to rise, especially in WvW. What was once a lone thief being a menace is now teams of thieves, often with mesmer support and nothing stops them.

Who can blame the rerollers, even i have sat down and seriously thought over whether i should join them. As yet, i havent, but I`ve seen these thief packs decimate forces of considerable size in a frighteningly short time. Its like a tide of invisible death, one moment there is an army there and then they`re dead.

Honestly i’m sick of seeing the whole thieves are overpowered thing. I play as a thief and I love my thief but we are not that overpowered. We are real squishy in a fight so we have to always be moving and dodging. Yeah, honestly the stealth thing is annoying when trying to kill us, I’ll admit it having 1v1 many thieves. But there is a solution.

Think what a thief does when low on health, he’s going to stealth and retreat, right? Well what’s the first place he’s going to go? Far away from you, in the oppoite direction, and if he was a smart thief, he’d use Shadow Refuge for around 10-12 seconds of stealth depending on their traits. Before he gets that 12 seconds of stealth, he has to stay in that circle for roughly 4 seconds or he gets a debuff called revealed. Means he is forced out of stealth. So he is trapped in his little circle for about 4 seconds right? As a thief, I switch to my shortbow and using the Choking Gas, Poisons the thief there. Then I can spam my #2 skill which is an exploding arrow. So two things happen. #1 I kill the hiding thief because he was low on health and used that as an escape with almost any health or #2 He runs away is revealed and I kill him, or my conditions do. Ethier way, he never gets far.

You just have to understand and think about what skills they are going to use. I use less stealth but admittely I will stealth to get away when I need too. Besides 1v1 and maybe 2v1 fights with a thief, in the zergs or anywhere else on the battle field, besides killing Doylaks, they don’t have many run options, and die fast.

If you really want to complain about OP, complain about the Golem armies built with supplies from other maps. They can get annoying.