Guild Wars 2

Hey, Arcade setting on Racing games in the past have given a handicap to the player that is behind, to help catch up to the winning player. The loosing player generally still looses, but keeps playing because he still feels like he has a fighting chance.

I know what you are going to say.. “people should be mature and keep fighting regardless” Yes! in an ideal world. but it isnt, and alot of people really need the illusion of a fighting chance to not just give up entirely.

so;

Reverse / Change the Orbs so that When a team is loosing really badly, the gods come and give them an orb to help them in their fight.

Straight forward Psychology to help people to stop giving up.

for every 10% in term of points a server is behind from the leading server, they should gain a buff that increases damage and damage reduction by 1%. so say a score is 500000 to 5000, to server with 5000 points will get 100% damage increase and 100% damage reduction. yes, you are invulnerable.

Its only getting worse becouse many losers transfer to server they think are winning team thats why WvWvW for many servers sucks:(

These constant transfer is killing WvWvW.

evasionmoon.1345:

Its only getting worse becouse many losers transfer to server they think are winning team thats why WvWvW for many servers sucks:(

These constant transfer is killing WvWvW.

i agree. the transferring should never have happened.. but its kind of too late, for that.

and aparently the outnumbered buff is just not enough to help swing things back into a “fighting chance” philosophy.

Problem: People quit when they’re losing.
Proposed solution: Reward people for losing.
Result: Everyone is a special snowflake.

This has already been tried in many communities over the past 20 years. It’s why we have things like “participation trophies” now.

People need to learn two simple facts:
1) In any competition, one side (or in this case, two sides) must lose.
2) If they don’t like losing, quitting only guarantees that they continue to lose.

The solution to losing isn’t to coddle the losers to make them feel better.

The solution to losing is that the losers must realize they have to stay and fight if they want a chance at winning.

“Why are we losing?”
“We don’t have enough people!”
“Why don’t we have enough people?”
“Everyone quit queuing because we were losing!”

…it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The main purpose of the points is to determine which worlds to match you against. If you start putting in things that artificially inflate your points, you’ll just end up fighting even tougher servers. This would make the situation worse, not better.

Wyrdthane.6801:

xSuicidez.9156:

Wyrdthane.6801:

xSuicidez.9156:

for every 10% in term of points a server is behind from the leading server, they should gain a buff that increases damage and damage reduction by 1%. so say a score is 500000 to 5000, to server with 5000 points will get 100% damage increase and 100% damage reduction. yes, you are invulnerable.

ridiculous, and not productive to any post anywhere. i hope the forum mod is as harsh on you as they are on me, and delete your useless post.

I don’t see how this is not productive. The example is the most extreme case. In a normal match, the buff isn’t even going to take effect (maybe 1% reduction at most). The more you’re losing, the more help you should be getting.

The problem with this buff is at the beginning of a match. Maybe the buff will only be effective after xxx days.

Maybe it was helpful in eliminating one idea that is a for sure fail. in that case, gj.

Explain your reasoning please. just calling an idea “FAIL” doesn’t justify. if your reasoning make sense, then i’ll agree.

Nabrok.9023:

The main purpose of the points is to determine which worlds to match you against. If you start putting in things that artificially inflate your points, you’ll just end up fighting even tougher servers. This would make the situation worse, not better.

Kaineng just gets left behind then. because they have never been matched evenly. Something just isnt working. Its working for the servers at the top.. but for the hundreds of thousands of players in the bottom servers, the WvW is kind of pointless.

Anyways, in rebuttal; you don’t need to ‘artifically inflate points’, no one said that. you just need to provide a little help so that the loosing team can keep their points at that ever elusive “fighting chance” place. give them some tools to get there, don’t just give them free points.. because then you would be %100 correct..

but if you give them the tools to climb up to that spot, they will want to keep playing.

Nabrok.9023:

Wyrdthane.6801:

re; mcl,

of course, but this is a game not real life. and honestly it is much more fun for all parties involved (winner and looser) to have a more balanced fight.

why bother even fighting if your loosing 500,000 points. which is the current problem on some servers..

the winning team gets bored for 2 weeks… TWO WHOLE WEEKS!!!!!!!

thats just not fun. something is broken when a GAME is NOT FUN.

Because the score of other worlds is not relevant. You don’t get a thing for winning. You do get stuff for participating though (bonuses). Your score is important. The other worlds scores, not important.

Its a game, and the whole point it to keep the players playing it longer.. if your current system is not working,, then you must change it..

this is what we a discussing.

Wyrdthane.6801:

re; mcl,

of course, but this is a game not real life. and honestly it is much more fun for all parties involved (winner and looser) to have a more balanced fight.

why bother even fighting if your loosing 500,000 points. which is the current problem on some servers..

the winning team gets bored for 2 weeks… TWO WHOLE WEEKS!!!!!!!

thats just not fun. something is broken when a GAME is NOT FUN.

Yes, it’s a game. It’s a game you lose if you don’t try.

You didn’t start the match week down by 500,000 points. You got there because everyone on your server QUIT. Plain and simple.

I’ll repeat it, since you missed it:
“Why are we losing?”
“We don’t have enough people!”
“Why don’t we have enough people?”
“Everyone quit queuing because we were losing!”

…it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That cycle starts when a server is down by about 20,000 points or so. Which is a completely recoverable shortfall. But since kids these days (yes, I’m old) seem to think quitting is preferable to losing, and since they’ve been raised to believe everyone should win, you all just give up. And then you blame the game rather than yourselves for losing.

Here’s the truth: You lost because you quit. And you quit because you thought you were losing.

Want to win? Stay and fight. Don’t run away crying like a coward, and demand the game be changed to make you feel better about the fact that every single match, 2/3s of all servers in GW2 will lose.

Losing sucks. Nobody likes to lose. But 2/3rds of everyone playing this game MUST lose every week. There can be only one winner in each bracket of 3 servers.

The only solution to losing is to suck it up and try harder. Or resign yourself to the fact that you will continue to lose in perpetuity. That’s been true since time immemorial.

xSuicidez.9156:

Wyrdthane.6801:

xSuicidez.9156:

Wyrdthane.6801:

xSuicidez.9156:

for every 10% in term of points a server is behind from the leading server, they should gain a buff that increases damage and damage reduction by 1%. so say a score is 500000 to 5000, to server with 5000 points will get 100% damage increase and 100% damage reduction. yes, you are invulnerable.

ridiculous, and not productive to any post anywhere. i hope the forum mod is as harsh on you as they are on me, and delete your useless post.

I don’t see how this is not productive. The example is the most extreme case. In a normal match, the buff isn’t even going to take effect (maybe 1% reduction at most). The more you’re losing, the more help you should be getting.

The problem with this buff is at the beginning of a match. Maybe the buff will only be effective after xxx days.

Maybe it was helpful in eliminating one idea that is a for sure fail. in that case, gj.

Explain your reasoning please. just calling an idea “FAIL” doesn’t justify. if your reasoning make sense, then i’ll agree.

Your original idea was to make everyone invulnerable…. you cant believe that this is the answer.

mcl.9240:

Wyrdthane.6801:

re; mcl,

of course, but this is a game not real life. and honestly it is much more fun for all parties involved (winner and looser) to have a more balanced fight.

why bother even fighting if your loosing 500,000 points. which is the current problem on some servers..

the winning team gets bored for 2 weeks… TWO WHOLE WEEKS!!!!!!!

thats just not fun. something is broken when a GAME is NOT FUN.

Yes, it’s a game. It’s a game you lose if you don’t try.

You didn’t start the match week down by 500,000 points. You got there because everyone on your server QUIT. Plain and simple.

I’ll repeat it, since you missed it:
“Why are we losing?”
“We don’t have enough people!”
“Why don’t we have enough people?”
“Everyone quit queuing because we were losing!”

…it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That cycle starts when a server is down by about 20,000 points or so. Which is a completely recoverable shortfall. But since kids these days (yes, I’m old) seem to think quitting is preferable to losing, and since they’ve been raised to believe everyone should win, you all just give up. And then you blame the game rather than yourselves for losing.

Here’s the truth: You lost because you quit. And you quit because you thought you were losing.

Want to win? Stay and fight. Don’t run away crying like a coward, and demand the game be changed to make you feel better about the fact that every single match, 2/3s of all servers in GW2 will lose.

Losing sucks. Nobody likes to lose. But 2/3rds of everyone playing this game MUST lose every week. There can be only one winner in each bracket of 3 servers.

The only solution to losing is to suck it up and try harder. Or resign yourself to the fact that you will continue to lose in perpetuity. That’s been true since time immemorial.

ok, you are %100 correct about this.

but what you are not seeing, is that this is a game. If people are not having fun, they move on.

while you seem to be confusing a video game with a sport. Lets boil this down to, if you love the game, and want it to stay around as long as WoW has, then you should nurse and care for its players,, EVEN THE WHINERS that you would kick out if you could. They want to have fun too.

Wyrdthane.6801:

Nabrok.9023:

The main purpose of the points is to determine which worlds to match you against. If you start putting in things that artificially inflate your points, you’ll just end up fighting even tougher servers. This would make the situation worse, not better.

Kaineng just gets left behind then. because they have never been matched evenly. Something just isnt working. Its working for the servers at the top.. but for the hundreds of thousands of players in the bottom servers, the WvW is kind of pointless.

There have only been three week-long matches. The 24 hour matches had little bearing on week balance. Crystal Desert, for example, was under-ranked for the 1st week resulting in a win by a large margin which shot us so far up we’ve been slaughtered for the past 2 weeks. Next week we’ll probably be closer to where we should naturally be.

That said, the toughest matches will be at the top and bottom. If you win at the top or lose at the bottom, there is nowhere else to go.

Anyways, in rebuttal; you don’t need to ‘artifically inflate points’, no one said that. you just need to provide a little help so that the loosing team can keep their points at that ever elusive “fighting chance” place. give them some tools to get there, don’t just give them free points.. because then you would be %100 correct..

but if you give them the tools to climb up to that spot, they will want to keep playing.

How is a “little help” not artificially inflating the points? The match-ups are determined by score, not win/loss record. If you get a “little help” it would make it extremely difficult to accurately compare your score with those of others worlds in different matches.

mcl.9240:

Wyrdthane.6801:

re; mcl,

of course, but this is a game not real life. and honestly it is much more fun for all parties involved (winner and looser) to have a more balanced fight.

why bother even fighting if your loosing 500,000 points. which is the current problem on some servers..

the winning team gets bored for 2 weeks… TWO WHOLE WEEKS!!!!!!!

thats just not fun. something is broken when a GAME is NOT FUN.

Yes, it’s a game. It’s a game you lose if you don’t try.

You didn’t start the match week down by 500,000 points. You got there because everyone on your server QUIT. Plain and simple.

I’ll repeat it, since you missed it:
“Why are we losing?”
“We don’t have enough people!”
“Why don’t we have enough people?”
“Everyone quit queuing because we were losing!”

…it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That cycle starts when a server is down by about 20,000 points or so. Which is a completely recoverable shortfall. But since kids these days (yes, I’m old) seem to think quitting is preferable to losing, and since they’ve been raised to believe everyone should win, you all just give up. And then you blame the game rather than yourselves for losing.

Here’s the truth: You lost because you quit. And you quit because you thought you were losing.

Want to win? Stay and fight. Don’t run away crying like a coward, and demand the game be changed to make you feel better about the fact that every single match, 2/3s of all servers in GW2 will lose.

Losing sucks. Nobody likes to lose. But 2/3rds of everyone playing this game MUST lose every week. There can be only one winner in each bracket of 3 servers.

The only solution to losing is to suck it up and try harder. Or resign yourself to the fact that you will continue to lose in perpetuity. That’s been true since time immemorial.

Pure Fallacy. This isn’t a sport (Sports don’t have unevenly numbered teams btw nor are they simply numbers games where the team with more participants wins…lol ). The fact is, ANET has a way of coming off as dismissive about WvW issues and frankly I don’t see how anyone can defend their handling of the situation thus far.

Published Rankings. Free unlimited transfer for over a month. No one could foresee this as a problem?

Then you have nightcapping, which despite it being a legit tactic from a rules POV completely destroys any sense of actual pvp competition.

It’s not losing that isn’t fun, it’s getting stomped and getting spawn camped.

When getting stomped, you lose so much option to have fun. You have no keep to defend, no group to counter zerg, not enought player to build siege.

mcl.9240

Yes, it’s a game. It’s a game you lose if you don’t try.

You didn’t start the match week down by 500,000 points. You got there because everyone on your server QUIT. Plain and simple.

I’ll repeat it, since you missed it:
“Why are we losing?”
“We don’t have enough people!”
“Why don’t we have enough people?”
“Everyone quit queuing because we were losing!”

…it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That cycle starts when a server is down by about 20,000 points or so. Which is a completely recoverable shortfall. But since kids these days (yes, I’m old) seem to think quitting is preferable to losing, and since they’ve been raised to believe everyone should win, you all just give up. And then you blame the game rather than yourselves for losing.

Here’s the truth: You lost because you quit. And you quit because you thought you were losing.

Want to win? Stay and fight. Don’t run away crying like a coward, and demand the game be changed to make you feel better about the fact that every single match, 2/3s of all servers in GW2 will lose.

Losing sucks. Nobody likes to lose. But 2/3rds of everyone playing this game MUST lose every week. There can be only one winner in each bracket of 3 servers.

The only solution to losing is to suck it up and try harder. Or resign yourself to the fact that you will continue to lose in perpetuity. That’s been true since time immemorial.

Were I a mod on this forum, I’d sticky this right at the top. Bravo.

I’ve been gaming for 25 years now, playing MMORPG’s for 15. I’ve had the worst luck with MMO’s and landing with kitteny servers/guilds that can’t PvP their way out of a wet paper bag. In WoW I was on one of the worst servers for Alliance PvP, Maelstrom. We ALWAYS lost to the Horde. Always. It got a little bit better when they went cross-server, but we lost more often than not.

What did I do? I didn’t quit. I didn’t transfer servers. I started leading and organizing PvP groups and guess what? I won a lot of games that way. Despite being on a server that had a population that was generally bad at PvP. In fact, I eventually got to be ranked 3rd in the vanilla PvP system on my server doing this (before I burnt out entirely).

I honestly have to agree that the whole “Everyone is special. There are no losers, only winner’s.” mentality that society has been pushing has severely damaged the competitive gaming space. Quitters used to be looked upon with disdain and blacklisted. In the 90’s and early 2000’s people would stick it out to the end regardless of how bad they were losing. Now it’s swung the other way. If you’re winning by any margin, usually you win by default because everyone quits.

It’s a real shame that things have gotten this bad.

In an online game participation and numbers are everything. If one side isn’t showing up for whatever reason at all, then something is wrong.

Well, the saying goes.. If you cant beat them, Join them.. that is what is happening. The people who have the guts to keep playing are the ones who suffer the most. Everyone else just Transfers Servers.

So yes, everyone who responds with, hey we should stick it out and thats the way it should be, might be right but, they are the ones getting left behind.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

Were I a mod on this forum, I’d sticky this right at the top. Bravo.

Which still wouldn’t make it more true.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

It’s a real shame that things have gotten this bad.

Then please explain how you’d resolve this situation:

1. Server A has full queues with at least 30min waiting time on all 4 wuvwuv maps and is generally labeled as “full population”
2. Servers B and C have no queues on any map and are labeled as “low population”
3. Servers A, B and C are matched against each other
4. because of #1 and #2 server A has about 3 times more players on server B’s own borderland than server B itself and can easily steamroll everything, JP camping and spawn camping included – every action from server B is retaliated swiftly and harshly, and capped camps barely last 5 minutes before being zerged into oblivion

How the frell is that supposed to be an even match? How has that anything to do with “being bad at pvp” rather than being a pure numbers problem?!

Population levels and numbers are pretty much everything in wuvwuv. Only – and really only – when all involved servers have an equal population level in the borderlands/battlegrounds then you get to a point where strategy and tactics get important.

But if your opponent outnumbers you 3:1 on your own borderland and facerolls you with sheer numbers there’s absolutely nothing you can do other than flipping sentries and capping camps (and perhaps siege a tower if you’re in a suicidal mood).

Perhaps you should come over to RoS for a few days to get a feeling what it is like to be hopelessly outnumbered and have absolutely no impact at all, even if you manage to grab a tower for a few minutes with good tactics. But hey, at least you get 33% more XP and karma over here… -.-"

Wyrdthane.6801:

mcl.9240:

Wyrdthane.6801:

re; mcl,

of course, but this is a game not real life. and honestly it is much more fun for all parties involved (winner and looser) to have a more balanced fight.

why bother even fighting if your loosing 500,000 points. which is the current problem on some servers..

the winning team gets bored for 2 weeks… TWO WHOLE WEEKS!!!!!!!

thats just not fun. something is broken when a GAME is NOT FUN.

Yes, it’s a game. It’s a game you lose if you don’t try.

You didn’t start the match week down by 500,000 points. You got there because everyone on your server QUIT. Plain and simple.

I’ll repeat it, since you missed it:
“Why are we losing?”
“We don’t have enough people!”
“Why don’t we have enough people?”
“Everyone quit queuing because we were losing!”

…it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That cycle starts when a server is down by about 20,000 points or so. Which is a completely recoverable shortfall. But since kids these days (yes, I’m old) seem to think quitting is preferable to losing, and since they’ve been raised to believe everyone should win, you all just give up. And then you blame the game rather than yourselves for losing.

Here’s the truth: You lost because you quit. And you quit because you thought you were losing.

Want to win? Stay and fight. Don’t run away crying like a coward, and demand the game be changed to make you feel better about the fact that every single match, 2/3s of all servers in GW2 will lose.

Losing sucks. Nobody likes to lose. But 2/3rds of everyone playing this game MUST lose every week. There can be only one winner in each bracket of 3 servers.

The only solution to losing is to suck it up and try harder. Or resign yourself to the fact that you will continue to lose in perpetuity. That’s been true since time immemorial.

ok, you are %100 correct about this.

but what you are not seeing, is that this is a game. If people are not having fun, they move on.

while you seem to be confusing a video game with a sport. Lets boil this down to, if you love the game, and want it to stay around as long as WoW has, then you should nurse and care for its players,, EVEN THE WHINERS that you would kick out if you could. They want to have fun too.

I do understand it’s a game.

What you seem to be missing is that it can be fun to fight and come from behind.

The fact that servers lose by 200,000 points (something happening in my bracket this week) is due to the fact that the players on that server give up when the deficit was 10,000 or 20,000, not 200,000.

That’s not “not having fun”, that’s, “we’re not winning, so I refuse to play.”

It’s not fun to lose. I get that. But it can be not only fun, but immensely gratifying, to fight against the odds and come out on top anyway. The problem is that nobody seems to want to have that sort of fun. The only fun they want is “we win”.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of people in WvWvW are acting like spoiled children. If they’re not winning, they quit. They quit quickly, and they quit at the first sign that they’re falling behind. They don’t have the character, the intestinal fortitude, the whatever-you-want-to-call it to stick with it through a bad situation and see it through to the end, come what may.

This very same attitude is rampant in those people who jump ship to a new server, a winning server, as soon as they possibly can.

The problem isn’t the game. The problem is a whole lot of the people playing the game. They ONLY want to win, but they don’t want to have to work for it. They just want to waltz into a winning situation and lord it over the losers.

This same attitude is prevalent in those people who want post-level-cap gear progression, so they can feel superior to everyone else based on what they own, rather than the skill they have.

It’s humorous, really: these very same people complain when they’re winning by too much, because everyone else quit and they have no one left to feel superior to. No cannon fodder to feed on. No lesser players to beat up. They’re king of the hill, and there’s no one there to be jealous of them.

There’s a reason why Roman heroes used to have a slave walk behind them, holding a laurel wreath over their head, whispering in their ear, “All glory is fleeting.”

Seems a whole bunch of folks these days want permanent glory, and nothing but.

By the way, there is ONE server that exemplifies exactly the sort of stick-to-it-iveness I’m discussing, and if it weren’t for the fact that I love the server I’m on, I’d transfer there: Kaineng.

They have THE lowest population of any NA server. They are ranked dead last in WvWvW.

Know what? They don’t give up. They go into WvWvW knowing they’re not only the underdog, but almost certainly completely outclassed, and they try anyway. They give everything they’ve got.

And they still lose. But here’s the secret: THEY HAVE FUN DOING IT.

Kaineng, I salute you. You exemplify everything that’s RIGHT about WvWvW, and how it should be played. I only wish everyone else had your server’s spirit.

mcl.9240:

I do understand it’s a game.

What you seem to be missing is that it can be fun to fight and come from behind.

The fact that servers lose by 200,000 points (something happening in my bracket this week) is due to the fact that the players on that server give up when the deficit was 10,000 or 20,000, not 200,000.

That’s not “not having fun”, that’s, “we’re not winning, so I refuse to play.”

It’s not fun to lose. I get that. But it can be not only fun, but immensely gratifying, to fight against the odds and come out on top anyway. The problem is that nobody seems to want to have that sort of fun. The only fun they want is “we win”.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but a lot of people in WvWvW are acting like spoiled children. If they’re not winning, they quit. They quit quickly, and they quit at the first sign that they’re falling behind. They don’t have the character, the intestinal fortitude, the whatever-you-want-to-call it to stick with it through a bad situation and see it through to the end, come what may.

This very same attitude is rampant in those people who jump ship to a new server, a winning server, as soon as they possibly can.

The problem isn’t the game. The problem is a whole lot of the people playing the game. They ONLY want to win, but they don’t want to have to work for it. They just want to waltz into a winning situation and lord it over the losers.

This same attitude is prevalent in those people who want post-level-cap gear progression, so they can feel superior to everyone else based on what they own, rather than the skill they have.

It’s humorous, really: these very same people complain when they’re winning by too much, because everyone else quit and they have no one left to feel superior to. No cannon fodder to feed on. No lesser players to beat up. They’re king of the hill, and there’s no one there to be jealous of them.

There’s a reason why Roman heroes used to have a slave walk behind them, holding a laurel wreath over their head, whispering in their ear, “All glory is fleeting.”

Seems a whole bunch of folks these days want permanent glory, and nothing but.

I think the problem with your logic is that you need to incentivize a lot of individual players to go along for this “coming from behind” gratification to work. There’s only so much an individual in this game can do, and less so if you don’t have the charisma to bring others with you. If these conditions are never met, your solution never will hold up.

This is coupled with how a winning side’s capabilities tend to snowball once built up, and then an unfair advantage is given to that side. When your gate is blocked off by a row of ballistas with a bunch of trebuchets behind it, there’s nothing even a large army can do well at that point. It becomes a fight of attrition to break through a line like that.

The game still has to be fun for the losing team to keep on playing, and as such should be as rewarding and possible for a losing side to win as it is for the winning side to lose.

It is entirely possible and fun for a losing team to keep on playing.

Here’s why it isn’t, in your eyes: You use the score to measure “fun”.

Ignore the score. I sincerely wish it wasn’t in the game. It ruins WvWvW for all concerned. “Fun” is what you make it.

Kaineng face that situation all the time. Go talk to them about how they manage to have fun anyway.

And as far as incentivizing people goes, the opportunity to fight for your server should be all the incentive you need. Any of you lot that feel you need your hand held and a big hug to feel better about yourselves to make you queue up need to go turn in your man card.

There’s no need to incentivize the losing side. There’s PLENTY of incentive for the losing side.

It’s simple: Stop losing. Try harder. Come together as a community and win. Winning against seemingly impossible odds is one of the most satisfying feelings on Earth.

Not: Quit until ANet makes losing fun.

The whole above statement sounds even more ludicrous after typing it out. I can’t believe this is what gaming has become.

Hahahahaha no.

World pride can only go so far. Not everyone is enamored with how their server looks in the world. People want to get paid for their time.

AsteriskCGY.5931:

Hahahahaha no.

World pride can only go so far. Not everyone is enamored with how their server looks in the world. People want to get paid for their time.

Then people should get a job. As the popular saying in this thread goes, “this is a game.”

AsteriskCGY.5931

Hahahahaha no.

World pride can only go so far. Not everyone is enamored with how their server looks in the world. People want to get paid for their time.

…

Please tell me you’re joking. This is a game. As with any game if you want to win, you have to put in some effort. Period.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

AsteriskCGY.5931

Hahahahaha no.

World pride can only go so far. Not everyone is enamored with how their server looks in the world. People want to get paid for their time.

…

Please tell me you’re joking. This is a game. As with any game if you want to win, you have to put in some effort. Period.

Putting in the effort’s easy. I’m there, i’m killing folks, I’m moving supplies, etc. What you’re looking for is motivation. And some semblance of success is one of them.

@Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806: You still haven’t answered my question from above…

@Baelnorn

Your question is moot. Players don’t like losing, thus they transfer off of your server leaving you undermanned. It all ties into everything else I’ve been saying throughout the thread.

I also highly doubt that the scenario you’re quoting is widespread. I can’t imagine that there are many instances of one full server facing off against two low pop servers. Even if they did, those two servers would lose then be paired up against servers they should have a chance against.

Besides, if the information I’ve seen is correct it’s 166 people per side, per map. If your server can’t field 166 people then it must be seriously dead and that sucks.

AsteriskCGY.5931:

Putting in the effort’s easy. I’m there, i’m killing folks, I’m moving supplies, etc. What you’re looking for is motivation. And some semblance of success is one of them.

You’re simply wrong there. Success isn’t a motivation. Success is the result of motivation.

I’m going to do something I normally don’t do, and disclose a tiny bit about myself. I’m a nationally-ranked competitive powerlifter. I’m also in my mid-40s.

I work a 9-5 job 5 days a week, and commute 1-1.5 hours EACH WAY to get to the office and back.

Two days a week, I go directly from the office and train with my team for 2-3 solid hours. On Saturday mornings, I wake up very early so as not to wake my spouse, crawl out of bed, throw on my gym clothes, and drive an hour to my team’s private gym, to train AGAIN, for 2-3 hours straight, and then drive home and get some lunch with her.

Sometimes I’ll also train a fourth day. Sometimes I won’t. Because I have a steel plate and 5 screws in my arm from when my forearm snapped in half in the middle of a bench press. I spent two years and thousands of dollars dealing with excruciating pain from the surgery to fix the break and attach that plate. There were times I thought I should just quit. While other people on my team were benching 600lbs, 700lbs, or more, I was struggling in the mid-400s, and couldn’t do it without screaming at least once from the pain during each set.

When I’m not dealing with that, I have an SI joint that pops out of joint so regularly I’m on a first name basis with my chiropractor. It popped out during a 700lb squat two weeks ago, and over the course of the week the pain got so bad I couldn’t shift position in my chair without almost passing out from the pain. My wife had to help me to stand up and sit down. When even I couldn’t take it any more, I looked at her last Saturday night (after I spent 10 minutes just getting out of my chair after playing GW2 and going upstairs to lie on the couch while she made dinner) and asked her to take me to the emergency room so I could get some pain meds so I could sleep that night.

My rotator cuff tends to lock up hard on me sometimes, to the point that I can’t raise my right arm.

Those are just the injuries. I’ve been so sore after training I couldn’t undress myself; I was literally incapable of bending over to untie my shoes, and have to occasionally ask my wife to do it. There are days the best I can manage is a very slow limp/waddle rather than walking like a normal human.

I’ve dropped a 405lb barbell from full arm extension directly onto my throat. After my teammates yanked it off me, I laughed, grimaced, sat up, and got on with training.

If I did anything motivated by success, I would have quit YEARS ago.

What motivates me is a burning, sometimes overwhelming desire to be better than I am. To overcome obstacles put in my path, whether they’re injuries, or just ordinary pain, or the little surprises life is constantly throwing at you (some of which have resulted in stitches I’ve ripped during training after going almost immediately from post-op to the gym).

I’m not motivated by success. I’m motivated to know what I’m capable of. I’m motivated to find out what my limits are, and then push myself past those limits. I’m motivated to look all those people in the eye that think I’m old and laugh in their face. I’m motivated to hit a personal goal of squatting 1,000 lbs in competition before I hit 50. Of achieving my pro total. Of being better tomorrow than I am today.

Success? There’s no such thing. There’s only accomplishing what you set out to accomplish, and then establishing newer, tougher goals to reach. Motivation is that inner fire than consumes you to reach those goals.

There’s no external reward in this. There’s zero money in powerlifting, even at the pro level (I take that back, actually; I’d say the top three people in the sport worldwide may have earned $25,000 all together in the past year). I spend thousands of dollars each year on equipment. Thousands more on meet registration and travel. You do NOT want to see my grocery budget (I walk around at 285 and compete at 275; soon I’ll be moving up to 308). And I won’t even discuss the money I spend on medical bills. The bill for my room when I broke my arm was $97,000. That was just the room. That didn’t include the surgery, or any of the doctors’ fees. Nor any of the post-op care or rehab.

So don’t sit there and talk to me about needing external motivation to be better in a VIDEO GAME. If you can’t find motivation within yourself, there is nothing that will motivate you. You either have a drive to do better and be better, or you do not. No amount of external reward is going to make it any easier for you.

@Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:
No it’s not. You can’t simply go around with an argument that basically boils down to “well, in a perfect world…” and expect everyone to accept it.

How often would you visit a bar that has great and cheap drinks, but always gives you a punch to the face and a knee to the balls before letting you in? Because that pretty much sums up the current situation of RoS and FoW vs Dzagonur. Btw, the latest queue times:

• Ruins of Surmia
• Fissure of Woe
• Dzagonur

This data is over 2 weeks old and the numbers likely haven’t changed much since.

You really forget (or outright ignore) the fact that there’s a strong difference between “fighting against the odds” and “tilting at windmills”. One of them implies that you actually have a chance at succeeding, while the other is an indicator for one not being very clever about estimating the situation.

And with the current landslide game mechanics in place, there is no frigging way in hell for a server that doesn’t have the same population level as the others to have a chance at winning the match – especially against a server which managed to grab all 3 orbs.

@ mcl :" You’re simply wrong there. Success isn’t a motivation. Success is the result of motivation."

You are correct. This is a matter of motivation, and the proof of this is in the pudding.

People swapping servers because they feel motivated by the chance to fight on a server that has a chance of winning.

all they want is a “fighting chance” and moving to a new server that seems to be in a good position to be matched up fairly is the only way of doing that right now.

maybe the solution for Anet is to keep the server transfers free… could you imagine how many customers they might loose if they simply dont want to play the game anymore because its gonna cost them money to switch to a server with a “fighting chance” ?

probably a few might be the answer.

Wyrdthane.6801:

@ mcl :" You’re simply wrong there. Success isn’t a motivation. Success is the result of motivation."

You are correct. This is a matter of motivation, and the proof of this is in the pudding.

People swapping servers because they feel motivated by the chance to fight on a server that has a chance of winning.

all they want is a “fighting chance” and moving to a new server that seems to be in a good position to be matched up fairly is the only way of doing that right now.

maybe the solution for Anet is to keep the server transfers free… could you imagine how many customers they might loose if they simply dont want to play the game anymore because its gonna cost them money to switch to a server with a “fighting chance” ?

probably a few might be the answer.

If you’re going to discuss this with me, at least be intellectually honest about it. people don’t transfer servers so they’ll be on a server that “seems to be in a good position to be matched up fairly.” People swap servers from the losing server to the winning server.

The people you’re discussing in your last post don’t want a fair shot. They want to be on the server that crushes the competition. They want the prestige of being associated with that server, even though they themselves have done absolutely nothing to contribute to it. They want to share in the glory without putting in any of the effort.

In short, they want the easy way out.

I sincerely hope ArenaNet eliminates free server transfers and does it very, very soon. Because then, and only then, will people be faced with the choice of either paying for that “easy way out”, or actually toughing it out and trying to make a go of the hand they’ve been dealt.

Do you think I complain about the temperature when I miss a lift? Or how little sleep I got the night before, or how I didn’t eat enough that day, or how I’ve been sick, or how everything hurts so much I just want to take a handful of painkillers and down it with a glass of scotch just to get through the day?

No. I admit I missed the lift because I wasn’t strong enough, and I decide to do better.

I don’t blame my teammates. I don’t change gyms. I don’t use my age as an excuse. I play the hand I was dealt, and I do the best possible job I can with it, because it’s what I’ve got. And when all is said and done, I’ll be left with a few records, a few medals, my name on a few lists here and there, and a broken-down body that will probably need extra medical attention the rest of my life, and make the next 40 years quite a bit more painful than they need to be.

But I’ll also be left with the pride of knowing that I accomplished something. That I did what I set out to achieve, and I did it with dignity and honor and grace and that I saw it through, using what I had rather than making excuses for everything I didn’t. Knowing that I stuck with a team that, while still comprised of some of the strongest people in the nation, is eclipsed by a team about two hours away that’s better at self-promotion and more well-known due to a certain movie made earlier in the decade about the guy who started it. Sure, I could drive over there 3-4 times a week and ride their coattails, but I’d rather stay with the people who’ve stuck by me, because I think they’ve got more guts and integrity than anyone else I’ve ever had the pleasure of training with.

WvWvW just equals a week long tPvP match.
By having points, overly rewarding the dominant team and punishing anyone who comes in underprepared it will just turn into a battle between the few WvWvW guilds/servers and the other servers will only consist of the participants that feel like ganking supply camps while the zerg is across the map is reason enough to keep playing.

I cant say this is good or bad, or what they intended but just seems like its the direction its headed.

Like it was said, this is a game, ppl want to just have fun. Its a small group tht thinks its fun to keep fighting a losing battle. You dont much see a group of 3 trying to kill dragons because it is impossible.

Its either WvW is about points and glory and being the top guild on the top server. Which it is now.
-or-
WvW is supposed to just be about fun and epic battles, if thts the case then if your server only has half the WvW population than they should double your NPC’s or raise their level.

All the difficulty in WvW outside the T1 bracket lies with the weakest team. The weakest teams with the lowest population are somehow expected to also be the most organized and tactical.

How about mid week the 2nd and 3rd teams become allied so the top team will have a challenge for the rest of the week instead of just building siege outside the losers spawn.

What they should do is simply eliminate the points entirely.

They can continue to use them for server groupings for matchmaking, but don’t show scores, period. Keep the pie chart and the stacked horizontal bar graph. Do away with showing the players ANY numerical indicator of position during a match.

When providing the list of server groupings on the forums, do not put them in order; randomize them within brackets, and randomize the order the brackets are presented.

Simple technical change, and it fixes the entire mentality that says WvWvW is all about points and being the top anything on a top anything.

WvWvW becomes about winning your match that week (or whatever the time period eventually becomes; at this rate I’m doubting they’ll move to a two-week matchup), and wondering who’ll you’ll face the next time ’round.

It also solves the issue with server-hopping, because people won’t just hop up brackets.

not everyone wants to dominate everyone into complete submission.. many people, like cats, want to play with their food.. and get bored if there is no play..

The Game should automatically create an alliance between the two servers getting spanked, if one server is so far out ahead say by more then the 2 combined scores of the other two then just take them allies and green to each other for 24 hours or something.

I think the server winning would rather have a challenge like this and the other two combined would make up ground.

mcl.9240:

What they should do is simply eliminate the points entirely.

This. As long as the ultimate goal seems to be, get the highest points, ppl wont care about taking back territory because they know even if they did they will still be in last so why do it.

If there is no points and you see that your borderland is completely overrun the goal is just simply take your territory back.

Orbs should grant the PVE bonuses and nodes like towers and keeps should provide the stat increases. So by taking back territory you are also weaking the team that held them before.

mcl.9240:

AsteriskCGY.5931:

Putting in the effort’s easy. I’m there, i’m killing folks, I’m moving supplies, etc. What you’re looking for is motivation. And some semblance of success is one of them.

some long wall of text

Did not need to post that.

Anecdotal fallacy.

Does not apply to me.

I’m not the kind to lead things such as this. So I’m only in WvW to help.

I’m willing to escort supplies, take back camps behind the action, whatever. That’s my level of contribution.

But when the only solution to beat the opposition is to have more people or spend more money, then I’m not really there.

I don’t know folks enough to get them organized.

And I don’t feel much of a desire to spend my cash on blueprints when I can’t make back that difference reliably.

So yes I am far less motivated to participate against such odds as compared to you,. But it does not invalidate my position in this argument.

I play for either numbers or friends, and as long as my friends are still playing Borderlands 2, I need to see some numbers go up to justify my time doing anything in this game.

remove points base win by Territory owned, great idea

I like this MCL guy.

And you know, my guild hates stomping other servers into the ground. We enjoy being the underdog, clawing our way up through the masses. When we are winning, it gets tough to motivate 15 guys to jump on. We start losing, suddenly 25+.

There is something extremely gratifying about being 20k under, 3 orbs and a full map of the enemy before you. Every tower we take, every keep just means that much more.

People need to understand just how rewarding it is to scrape out even small victories from enormous odds, instead of asking for the game to cater to their poor skill.

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Roland Falantyr.3290:

Then you have nightcapping, which despite it being a legit tactic from a rules POV completely destroys any sense of actual pvp competition.

I think you have that the wrong way round.

To be honest, the lack of actual pvp is resulting in nightcapping, which is resulting in tears, which is resulting in QQ threads, which is resulting in me laughing at a lot of you.

>AsteriskCGY.5931 – “Putting in the effort’s easy.”

Then i’m pretty sure you’re not doing it right…