Guild Wars 2

If a good amount are I dont know if thats designer or what a solution would be. It just seems like a glairing design flaw.

I dont think you are ever going to get constant match ups with worlds that are equally as active all of the time. I think a fix needs to come in the form of 1 server sleeping while another is awake doesnt make all of the difference.

Obviously balance is a big issue in any game and it is easier said then done. I just dont know how well a game will do, when worlds are being competitive during peak hours only to come back the next day and literally lost everything.

Nobody has enough data to answer that question except ArenaNet. Anyone else claiming this as a fact is merely speculating.

I’m certain the gains made by servers on off-peak hours play into it, but the mere mechanics of it likely aren’t the primary reason. It’s that players on the other two servers just give up after they see this happen once or twice, particularly when they look at the score before deciding whether or not to participate.

Over the coming months, as the matchmaking system has the chance to settle on a set of stable server groupings, the lopsidedness of the matches being seen this week should diminish or disappear. But some people are too impatient to wait and give the matchmaking system a chance to work. They think every match it makes should be balanced, when in reality it’s going to go through a series of poor matchups before it finds adequate ones.

Matching up servers with more active populations seems like a band aid for a bigger problem.

“Over the coming months” “But some people are too impatient” A game can lose a lot of people and possibly die in that amount of time.

But thats not really my point, since I dont even know if there is a possible fix. We dont need data to see that worlds with more people are doing better than worlds with less.

The issue is that scoring and progress are easy when you have people on and another side doesnt. I dont think you can fix progress, how can you stop people from taking objectives without anyone on? But you might be able to fix scoring by somehow incentivizing things that would take place during peak hours.

What kills games faster than anything is a bunch of impatient people running around saying the game is dying simply because they don’t want to wait for the matchmaking system to play out as intended.

If you don’t want to wait for the matchmaking system to settle into a stable configuration of server groupings, then suggest a viable alternative that allows arenanet to accurately determine reasonable groupings. Provide support above and beyond, “I think this will work”. This support should entail a fair bit of math (as that’s what went into deciding on the existing matchmaking system).

And since you’re worried that protracted annealing will drive people away from the game, your solution should be a one-shot fix.

I think the main reason for the unbalance is theres 4 top servers yet the matchups are in a group of 3… so the one left over ultimately goes to beat up another 2 servers really badly, and so on. If you take one of the top 4 out of the equation, the match ups would suddenly get a lot more balanced.

by points, so you can see where exactly the gaps are:

2141.559 Henge of Denravi
———-108
2033.824 Stormbluff Isle
———-57
1976.901 Jade Quarry
———-53
1923.441 Eredon Terrace
———-206
1717.738 Isle of Janthir
—-——5
1712.107 Sea of Sorrows
—-——21
1696.698 Crystal Desert
———-53
1643.959 Gate of Madness
———-8
1635.193 Blackgate
———-9
1626.448 Dragonbrand
———-49
1577.574 Tarnished Coast
———-57
1520.354 Maguuma
———-10
1510.545 Fort Aspenwood
———-46
1464.862 Sorrow’s Furnace
———-30
1434.666 Sanctum of Rall
———-20
1414.552 Darkhaven
—-——3
1411.704 Yak’s Bend
—-——12
1399.474 Anvil Rock
———-19
1380.043 Ehmry Bay
—-——276
1104.276 Borlis Pass
———-24
1080.276 Ferguson’s Crossing
———-6
1074.472 Northern Shiverpeaks
———-241
833.028 Devona’s Rest
———-199
634.207 Kaineng

Maybe ANet could try having HoD fight DR and Kaineng for a week, just to see if that suddenly makes the rest of the matchups more balanced.

Ultimately I think either 2 more servers will emerge as strong WvW servers, so we have 6 servers closer to each other in the top 2 tiers… or one server in the top 4 will dismantle and there will be 3 top servers in the top tier.

If you define “prime time” as the 3-8 hour window when most people are online, then all matchups are mostly decided outside of “prime time” Why? because every hour gives the same number of points, and there are more hours outside of “prime time” then in “prime time”. therefore, the majority of points comes from outside of “prime time” thus, all matches are decided more by what happens outside of “prime time” then in “prime time”

Every single match up is currently being decided by which server went out of its way to exploit low activity hours by recruiting people who would explicitely play for them during this timeframe.

Expect it to take a month for matchmaking to fix this problem at all. If not longer.

mcl.9240:

What kills games faster than anything is a bunch of impatient people running around saying the game is dying simply because they don’t want to wait for the matchmaking system to play out as intended.

If you don’t want to wait for the matchmaking system to settle into a stable configuration of server groupings, then suggest a viable alternative that allows arenanet to accurately determine reasonable groupings. Provide support above and beyond, “I think this will work”. This support should entail a fair bit of math (as that’s what went into deciding on the existing matchmaking system).

And since you’re worried that protracted annealing will drive people away from the game, your solution should be a one-shot fix.

If they pay me I will tell them exactly how to fix their problem and take responsibility for it. Until then I will point it out just in case they arent sure.

The idea that matchmaking will solve anything, is a story they concocted for obedient rubes like yourself. Even if it did make a more enjoyable experience for everyone it would do anything to fix any underlying problems.

If you posses any amount of congnitive ability, it should not be hard for you to deduce problems with a game without the game designers telling you what they are. You can agree with me or disagree with me and support yourself all you want, but dont tell me we are incapable of knowing what the real problems are. Thats a BS argument that might work for you, but people who actually enjoy thinking may not be satisfied by it.

As far as games dying, it isnt really important if people are right or wrong for deciding not to play any more. What should be important is identifying the reasons and doing what you can to rectify them. That is, if you want a healthy population playing your game.

What kills a game faster than anything is when a game stops being fun. This game stopped being fun when the sole determining factor for success turned out to be “how many Aussies are on your server.” It’s not players’ job to give Anet time to fix their game (especially when the last official post on this issue was that this situation is working as intended). It’s Anet’s job to give us a game that’s worth playing.

mangocheesecake.1487:

I think the main reason for the unbalance is theres 4 top servers yet the matchups are in a group of 3… so the one left over ultimately goes to beat up another 2 servers really badly, and so on. If you take one of the top 4 out of the equation, the match ups would suddenly get a lot more balanced.

by points, so you can see where exactly the gaps are:

2141.559 Henge of Denravi
———-108
2033.824 Stormbluff Isle
———-57
1976.901 Jade Quarry
———-53
1923.441 Eredon Terrace
———-206
1717.738 Isle of Janthir
—-——5
1712.107 Sea of Sorrows
—-——21
1696.698 Crystal Desert
———-53
1643.959 Gate of Madness
———-8
1635.193 Blackgate
———-9
1626.448 Dragonbrand
———-49
1577.574 Tarnished Coast
———-57
1520.354 Maguuma
———-10
1510.545 Fort Aspenwood
———-46
1464.862 Sorrow’s Furnace
———-30
1434.666 Sanctum of Rall
———-20
1414.552 Darkhaven
—-——3
1411.704 Yak’s Bend
—-——12
1399.474 Anvil Rock
———-19
1380.043 Ehmry Bay
—-——276
1104.276 Borlis Pass
———-24
1080.276 Ferguson’s Crossing
———-6
1074.472 Northern Shiverpeaks
———-241
833.028 Devona’s Rest
———-199
634.207 Kaineng

Maybe ANet could try having HoD fight DR and Kaineng for a week, just to see if that suddenly makes the rest of the matchups more balanced.

Ultimately I think either 2 more servers will emerge as strong WvW servers, so we have 6 servers closer to each other in the top 2 tiers… or one server in the top 4 will dismantle and there will be 3 top servers in the top tier.

I dont really know where you are getting your information, but total points ever isnt going to provide good match ups.

For instance, Yaks Bend is crushing Darkhaven and Anvil and it has a lot to do with the fact they have a more round the clock population.

If off peak hours are the deciding factor thats how they should be matching servers up, but like I said that doesnt really fix the fact that its bad game design to have that be the deciding factor.

Hix.8925:

What kills a game faster than anything is when a game stops being fun. This game stopped being fun when the sole determining factor for success turned out to be “how many Aussies are on your server.” It’s not players’ job to give Anet time to fix their game (especially when the last official post on this issue was that this situation is working as intended). It’s Anet’s job to give us a game that’s worth playing.

This is pretty much it. The players responsibility is to play the game if they enjoy it. They can give the designers the courtesy of telling them the games faults. Then its really up to the designers what they do with that information. What they do will determine the success of the game.

If they do nothing the game may lose lots of people. If they decide to fix it, but take their time, they will lose however many people they lose.

Players have no obligation to play a game they dont enjoy because the designers havent provided them with a game they dont think is fun.

Darken.9670:

I dont really know where you are getting your information, but total points ever isnt going to provide good match ups.

For instance, Yaks Bend is crushing Darkhaven and Anvil and it has a lot to do with the fact they have a more round the clock population.

If off peak hours are the deciding factor thats how they should be matching servers up, but like I said that doesnt really fix the fact that its bad game design to have that be the deciding factor.

Eh… I got the points from the sticky at the top of this forum?

I know there are difference in timezones etc, but I mean, we have to go with the facts we have right? I’m merely pointing out timezone is not the ONLY factor in unbalanced matchups… the fact that there are 4 top servers throws everything off by a bit.

Darken.9670:

mcl.9240:

What kills games faster than anything is a bunch of impatient people running around saying the game is dying simply because they don’t want to wait for the matchmaking system to play out as intended.

If you don’t want to wait for the matchmaking system to settle into a stable configuration of server groupings, then suggest a viable alternative that allows arenanet to accurately determine reasonable groupings. Provide support above and beyond, “I think this will work”. This support should entail a fair bit of math (as that’s what went into deciding on the existing matchmaking system).

And since you’re worried that protracted annealing will drive people away from the game, your solution should be a one-shot fix.

If they pay me I will tell them exactly how to fix their problem and take responsibility for it. Until then I will point it out just in case they arent sure.

The idea that matchmaking will solve anything, is a story they concocted for obedient rubes like yourself. Even if it did make a more enjoyable experience for everyone it would do anything to fix any underlying problems.

If you posses any amount of congnitive ability, it should not be hard for you to deduce problems with a game without the game designers telling you what they are. You can agree with me or disagree with me and support yourself all you want, but dont tell me we are incapable of knowing what the real problems are. Thats a BS argument that might work for you, but people who actually enjoy thinking may not be satisfied by it.

As far as games dying, it isnt really important if people are right or wrong for deciding not to play any more. What should be important is identifying the reasons and doing what you can to rectify them. That is, if you want a healthy population playing your game.

As you’ve pointed out the match making system doesn’t seem to be working and I don’t think it will work. I used to believe that their system would sort itself out in time but I really don’t think it will. Servers are too diverse.

My only suggestion would be to make the world-PvP server based and allow people to choose a team to play on. The only way they can change their team is if they pay cash and there is a week long cool down. I don’t think this would be good though because the maps are so big. On top of that, since teams aren’t strictly faction based it is likely that the people who all play on off hours would end up on the same team. Basically, it is too late to do anything.

Maybe they could add some new metrics to the match-making system that takes traffic into account.

Yes, because SBI which is getting DESTROYED by HoD overal in points by about 60K, leads them during prime time hours and has since the weekly match started friday. JQQ has even taken a lead on them a couple nights and for quite a few hours during priometime HoD is in third place. They have been a distant rhird the past couple nights.

BUT, every early morning between 4-6 server time they have between 400-500 PPT going off because there simply are no SBI or JQQ players around. So for a 4 to 6 hour window they are getitng beat now on a nightly basis, but for 18-20 hours they get these dominating point ticks that go one for hours on end. You CANNOT take scores seriously that have that sort of bias in them.

But since no one wants to do anything to change it thats what you have to deal with.

^^
Isn’t it your servers problem that you didn’t recruit any oceanic players to game?
Also, it’s very close in primetime don’t try to say you guys dominate. We dominate at night but the day timers SBI seems to dominate then evening its back to HOD.

Hix.8925:

This game stopped being fun when the sole determining factor for success turned out to be “how many Aussies are on your server.”

This is complete and utter rubbish.

SoS and IoJ both have high Oceanic populations and yet they got smashed by ET (a medium pop server).

Peak hours: ~6
Off-peak hours: ~18

So yes.

Off peak hours determine the scoreboard, not peak. The only exception would be if all 3 servers had full worlds with queues 24/7.

I’m really apathetic to this problem. We lose stuff overnight, so do they.
Wars continue at all times. Do you think they stopped WWII because it was night time? (ignore tea time)

WWI was stopped at Christmas for a football match in no-man’s land. shrug

But yeh.. war is 24/7.. simple….

W3 ISNT balanced either… you want balance, go SPvP.

I dont get what is so difficult to understand.

Yes but off-hour points should probably count for less.

Why should fierce full-map battles between 3 full teams count for 100% points and 10 guys capping unopposed at 5am also founds for 100% points? Make points based somewhat on map population. Base 50% points per tick with bonus points up to 100% as you reach full population.

Hix.8925:

What kills a game faster than anything is when a game stops being fun. This game stopped being fun when the sole determining factor for success turned out to be “how many Aussies are on your server.” It’s not players’ job to give Anet time to fix their game (especially when the last official post on this issue was that this situation is working as intended). It’s Anet’s job to give us a game that’s worth playing.

Personally participating in WvW is a fun in and of itself. The points are just a secondary consideration. If you have to win for a game to be fun perhaps you’d be better off playing something like Pokemon

Define..Off hours…. I’M in the UK and play on US servers, my (supposed) hours are 8 hours ahead of you, is THAT off peak?

What about oceanic players? Their peek time is you night time… Is THAT off peak?

America is NOT the center of the world and the Australians’ and Europeans’ contribution means exactly the same as the Americans’

Why should I fight for 50% of the points? Is my meager contribution only worth half as much as yours? No!

Again.. i say ..war is 24/7, W3 isnt balanced either.

@Jorjeis – YES! Yes yes yes yes yes!

When I play W3 with my guild mates, we look at the scores and say “Whoo not doing so well” or “Whoo hoo winning” but that’s about it.. We didnt contribute to every single one of those points. Server pride sneaks in a little but we know those points are not down to us individuality… So why do we play? FUN!

We go to W3 whether we are winning or being stomped in the points, we play equally if we’re winning or loosing. We go out there, team up, take what we can, get the xp and the other rewards and see what fun battles we can get into.. win or loose, points wise, just have fun already!

Peak = full server.
Off peak = server not full.

Not that difficult.

Made like 3 attempts at this post. I hate the idea and people who complain that there should be some sort of limiting system when not during peak hours.
That is my opinion and I will leave it at that.
The quality of the players on the server determines the outcome.

Slamz.5376:

Yes but off-hour points should probably count for less.

Why should fierce full-map battles between 3 full teams count for 100% points and 10 guys capping unopposed at 5am also founds for 100% points? Make points based somewhat on map population. Base 50% points per tick with bonus points up to 100% as you reach full population.

Do you have any factual evidence to support your claim that off peak players are all capping unopposed? Or are you just repeating what has been said on the forums by other players? Who are, incidentally, basically prime time players and have no idea what happens during off peak times.

Chuck Norris plays off peak! FACT!

Karicus.8356:

@Jorjeis – YES! Yes yes yes yes yes!

When I play W3 with my guild mates, we look at the scores and say “Whoo not doing so well” or “Whoo hoo winning” but that’s about it.. We didnt contribute to every single one of those points. Server pride sneaks in a little but we know those points are not down to us individuality… So why do we play? FUN!

We go to W3 whether we are winning or being stomped in the points, we play equally if we’re winning or loosing. We go out there, team up, take what we can, get the xp and the other rewards and see what fun battles we can get into.. win or loose, points wise, just have fun already!

Perhaps that’s why it’s been such a good game fighting SBI. Less QQing on the forums about teaming up and night capping and more focusing on enjoying the battle.

@ Slamz – still didnt answer the question.. why should your contribution mean more than those who play in Australia?

@ Jorjeis – I guess your on HoD? some of your points, can i haz? You dont need all of them, surely :p

Well I played Warhammer Online for years and that has a huge open PvP (or rvr as they call it) imbalance, depending on what server has the highest pop on at any one time. There are considerably LESS things to do in the open war than in GW2 and the PVE isnt great, So I’m used to being pitted against insurmountable odds and STILL finding things to do, enjoy and stuff that could potentially screw up the enemy, THAT is what the war is about NOT the points system, QQing about Chuck Norris taking yer stuff when you sleep

See you on the battle field and if you kill me, please place me at the road side in a nice peaceful place, I like roses

Has anybody given any thoughts to the troops overseas though and when they login to try to play? they would be playing off peak hours too.

It’s been said before but i’ll say it again for the people at the back of the class not paying attention…

Your “off peak” is someone else’s prime time.

The world, as shown by a big plastic thing on my fire place, is round. It revolves around a shiny ball of fire we call the sun. When that shiny ball of fire is pointing at you it’s leaving other people in the dark, that would be their “off peak” in which you are stealing their keeps/towers and vice versa.

Long story short, there is no “off peak” in a 24 hour map.

The world is… ROUND? People are awake when I’m Asleep????

LIES! all LIES!

It takes a lot of skill taking on Doors and winning. And it’s great that the needs of a few off-peak players and randoms from around the world are setting the skilled servers apart from the crap servers. Pvp skill is all in how many real players you avoid when you play.

peak hour 80%
off-peak 15%
3-8am 5%
Point count like that should solve the problem and the night time exploiters should also be happy

kefro.9312:

peak hour 80%
off-peak 15%
3-8am 5%
Point count like that should solve the problem and the night time exploiters should also be happy

Night time “exploiters”? Seriously?

So in a 24×7 battle anyone who plays when you are not on is now an exploiter?

I’m an Australian player on a US server with a very small Aussie population, my server is at least 200k points behind the leader. Please stop the constant whining and try to proactively recruit to your server to fill in your so-called off peak. If you don’t want to be proactive about it, then you only have yourself to blame. Stop expecting things to be handed to you on a silver platter, if you want something, go and get it.

This endless tirade of complaints is exhausting. How do you think I feel fighting against these servers with sometimes as little as six people? At least you can ride on the coat-tails of a zerg when you’re online. I have to fight vastly superior numbers for anything I take “off peak”

Fed.8594:

It takes a lot of skill taking on Doors and winning. And it’s great that the needs of a few off-peak players and randoms from around the world are setting the skilled servers apart from the crap servers. Pvp skill is all in how many real players you avoid when you play.

Try transferring to any of the Top 4 servers and see for yourself if there are " a few off-peak players".

Samfisher.7942:

Fed.8594:

It takes a lot of skill taking on Doors and winning. And it’s great that the needs of a few off-peak players and randoms from around the world are setting the skilled servers apart from the crap servers. Pvp skill is all in how many real players you avoid when you play.

Try transferring to any of the Top 4 servers and see for yourself if there are " a few off-peak players".

Depends on whether he is EU or US as the situations are different. But yeah, its a point of view that keeps getting parroted about by non off peak players who really don’t have a clue what off peak is like.

Scrap the US/EU server paradigms and shift all players into one server pool. No more off-peak.

buki.3108:

Scrap the US/EU server paradigms and shift all players into one server pool. No more off-peak.

Latency though. Oceanics and co are used to it but I can’t see US or EU players appreciating 100+ms pings.

Idk how it would be from over there. I have a NA and EU account (from NA) and it was only like 10-20ms. I think it has to do with the way their data-centers are set up?

You get 20ms to a EU server? Is that actually physically possible given the Atlantic Ocean and all?

Why my contributions should count for more than someone from Australia:

Because when I play, each team has a full zone with a queue. When the guy from Australia plays, in many cases it’s his “unofficial Oceanic” server with 40+ people facing two other servers with about 10 people each.

I fight full 3-way battles against maximum opposition to claw my way through the map and hang on to what we capture. He rolls over the map with very little competition. That’s why his accomplishments should count for less.

And yes, we have seen this roughly every other matchup. Big 3-way battles which taper off around 3am and then around 4-5am, POW, Oceanic players are getting off of work and logging in, but mostly all on the same server, and that server sweeps the entire map in all 4 zones in less than 1 hour. Like clockwork. The hard fought points of the day are swamped by the “no competition” points of the Oceanic time frame.

ArenaNet needs to do something about these Americans capping stuff while I sleep.
It’s ruining WvW.

Adolf: "We will bomb London at night! "
Chruchill :“you ‘could’ do that but dont forget its only worth 15% because it’s ‘off peak’”
Adolf “kittenziz, fine, when iz it bezt to bomb you?”
Churchill: “Anywhen between 5pm and midnight good for you?”
Adolf: “And we get pull pointz for ziz?”

injecting some sarcastic comedy into the thread… QQoff-peak! pah!

All matches are decided based on a 24/7 hours, yes.

• Slamz – You make it sound like you earnt every single point on your own..bless..

Doesnt answer the question, considering, THATS the only time HE gets to play, thats the only time YOU get to play AND you both bought the same game.

Flip it on it’s head then… Because ON PEAK times have more players, points should be divided by population, meaning you get LESS points because more ppl online, not nice when the boots on the other foot eh? Yet you’ll QQ about that too because it doesnt suit YOU!

and THAT is what this is all about..suiting YOU.. forgetting the rest of the world cant play at the same time as you, renders then inferior but that dont matter as long as YOU get to keep what you worked for.

If you dont like the fact other people may be playing the same game as you when your asleep, go play Diablo 3.. oh wait..well something else instead.

This thread is just another example of butt hurt, selfish, egotistical, arrogant and ignorant people wanting the world their own way.

There is nothing worse than people who split hairs, ignore information and dance around the subject simply because proposed solutions aren’t what they had in mind.

If you want to play a game based around timezones I’m pretty sure Aion still exists, have fun with that.