Guild Wars 2

Look, I’ve been around the block enough to know that people in WvW are salty, toxic and egotistical. But there seems to be a lot of anger around very simple WvW things. Let me preface this by saying I’m not new to WvW, but I really don’t understand some of the things I see.

My first concern is around ‘tagging’. Not everyone has a commander tag, but I often see a lot of groups, massive blobs of people 50-70+ walking around with no commander tag. Since people rotate in and out of WvW, I thought tagging up would be smart. Just so people know where the blob is at when they go to join that map. Instead I get some angry people being like ‘move maps’; ‘go away’; ‘bad commander kek’. I don’t understand the logic here… I’m not a perfect commander, I’m not even good, but I mean some tag is better than no tag…

I have other concerns, but this is the biggest. It seems anti-productive even harmful not to have a tag running on a map. Are there other ‘standards’ that aren’t stated anywhere that people are expected to pickup from osmosis?

Some groups use targeting instead of tags.

Well although it might seem that any tag is better than no tag it’s not a realistic thought. If you are new and tagged and running with someone who understands how WvW works and is helping you then that’s great since he/she can help you head in the right direction, understand how to read the map, know when and where to place siege, when to fight, when to not fight and so on and so on.

There’s a lot more to commanding in WvW than just having a tag. So much so that many people can actually run tagless in a group because they understand what they need to be doing, and as noted above they will sometimes just “target” their “leader” and run like that. It could be that they’re a guild group, or just a group of friends.

In this day and age of big zergs and blobs a commander will be stained quickly if you don’t know what to do. Sad but true. If/when I tag up it will be to get a havoc group together (not a big zerg/blob), then I will drop tag and we will run as a tagless squad taking towers, camps, and even keeps if we can get away with it.

I’ll never understand why people get nasty to people who are new, but even for us folks that aren’t new these same people still get just as nasty and ignorant. As I like to say, it is what it is. Trolls are everywhere and they think they’re “the best”.

The best thing to do is find a commander in a guild that you know, or make friends with some people that really know WvW and start running with them. Get to know the “lay of the land”. It takes time and if you don’t want to be trolled by people this is the best way to go about it.

Hope you get some help with this and have some fun! ’cause it really is fun if you get with a group of good folks that like helping!

^problem with being toxic player is some player go to have fun well some player try really hard to do well. since skill level is all over the place in WvW people tend to get trigger over small dumb things.

like if any of you get a chance to WvW you see no matter where we stand i will fluid map chat with information for new players. LOL

it be things like Oh we are beside a wall you better be pulling them off >:(!!!! LOL

Sounds like a server community thing.

Well sometimes it feels like that commander is enemy team spy and main goal is just feed enemy zerg.

Because people feel entitled. Every place has lots of people that know how to be a commander, but for some reason don’t actually command or probably never have.

If you tag up and refuse to be the servant to every person on the map then you’re apparently treating them badly.

There are quite a few threads where people have such a mentality.

The best way to get a squad going though, is to start out small and draw random scattered players. Start out small and take camps and the occasional t0 tower, and you should slowly start to grow in size, as well as gather some people that aren’t just to hitch a ride for a cheap daily. This builds morale.

Another way of building morale that I know a lot of people will disapprove of, is to seek the enemy blob but don’t engage them. Instead go to where they were and you will inevitably find their tail/lagging zerglings/ unfortunate folks running to their zerg. Kill all of these, and this will generally keep the crowds somewhat satisfied because it appears you are doing something. (Only applies if you are outnumbered, of course)_

People generally do not like standing around doing nothing so break off attacks if they seem too well defended and also do not lead hopeless defenses of low upgraded structures (But do drain all the supplies) But do defend the t3 keeps and always respond to requests for those. People that call it out will appreciate it at the least, and nobody would object to it.

Your home borderland is generally the best bet, because a tag generally attracts the borderland defenders and also people that are really bored. This is doubly so if your home is the desert one, and doubled again if there’s an enemy group of significant size.

Jezereal.4321:

Are there other ‘standards’ that aren’t stated anywhere that people are expected to pickup from osmosis?

I always prefer a tag to a blob running around randomly. Getting hates from those ueseless knowalls who just whine and complain whole day instead of doing something themselves is part of being commander.

It is no standard at all, just jerks who belong into everyone’s block list. Basically, server is made up with bunch of random people, many of those are complete useless idiots like in real life. Weed them out so you can have normal chats with normal people.

Running tagless reasons:

• Guild group and don’t wish to draw PUGs aka we blob ezmode k-train now boiz
• Enemy server is tag watching your every move (spy)
• Guild training to “follow target” even when there is none
• The group genuinely doesn’t use a tag nor needs one because they are already coordinated
• Avoiding having another tag on map join up with your tag (refer to point 1)

Hope that helps answer your question.

commanding is the hardest part of thid game. you must atleast have a basic knowledge of what to do and be patient to those who follow you. there will be trolls. just block those and dont follow their mind games.

check metabattle.com

What you can do, is to do the opposite of following a large group with a random tag.

Tag up red or something like that(not blue or yellow), state your purpose in chat. Like “Im going to try a few camps and towers, feel free to join up”. And respect if someone more experienced tags up blue.

WvW is a community of people. Your knowledge might be limited and not applicable to the community.

Perhaps that huge blob of people actually has a commander and that commander is actually running tagless.

Commanders sometimes tag down to get rid of ppl not on TS, since they tend to stand at the wrong spots and only end up feeding the other team.

As stated above, the group you encountered may already be organized, and running without a tag on purpose. Best way this could have played out:

You: Hey guys, should I tag up to help organize this group?
Them: No thanks; we are running tagless on purpose for <reason x>.
You: Ah, gotcha.

Then you could decide to run with them, or run your own tag to form a separate group for pugs who would like to follow one, and focus on different targets than the original group.

OP, I think you’re asking the wrong question here.

To me the correct question is: “should you personally be playing online games with such a thin skin for criticism?”

How are you ever going to survive being a commander if a few mean whispers effect you this much?

Jezereal.4321:

I often see a lot of groups, massive blobs of people 50-70+ walking around with no commander tag. Since people rotate in and out of WvW, I thought tagging up would be smart. Just so people know where the blob is at when they go to join that map. Instead I get some angry people being like ‘move maps’; ‘go away’; ‘bad commander kek’. I don’t understand the logic here…

Have you considered simply ASKING them why they are running around tagless?

My guess would be that they want to get rid of people who are not on ts. But rather than asking random people on the forums you really should go and talk to the people on your server.

At certain times of day on my main server there are often a whole lot of familiar names on, some of whom may or may not, at other times, tag up and command. Most of those people have been playing for years and have a fair idea what to do without needing to be told. It often happens that, as they read the map and the situation, they come to similar conclusions about what needs to be done and enough of them may arrive in the same place at the same time to make it look as though a zerg is forming.

But it isn’t. It’s just players doing what needs to be done. They don’t necessarily need a tag and the erstwhile commanders among them may be enjoying a bit of a break from the responsibility. I’ve never known anyone to complain if someone does tag up at that point, although there’s no certainty anyone will follow someone who does. That would depend on whether that tag actually seemed to know what they were doing. If not, the bulk of the players would just carry on as they were and the tag would be left running around on their own. Seen that often enough!

On a related note, there are trolls on every server that will complain about everything and anything a commander does, whether its an experienced one or not. Your best bet is to put those fools on ignore. If your on BG, there is a specific individual that makes it his life’s mission to whine constantly in map/team chat. 95% of all BG comms and a good 75% of the regular folks have this clown on ignore.

I don’t really care if commander is inexperienced, but it start to kitten me off when he can’t learn. I would think that if you wipe 5 times and enemy doesn’t lose any players you would understand that rushing middle of enemy zerg doesn’t work. If zerg is weak go siege towers or something.

Tag culture is completely messed up. Anyone who is doing ‘something’ that could use other people should be able to tag up and outline what they doing etc.

People see 1 tag as ideal though for the whole map cause of how numbers work in a fight. SOme people see the only tag role as fighting, and dismiss everything else has roamer work that shouldn’t include a tag EVER.

If you disagree with that tag on how to fight/do things, you have the option to make your own tag. But then you split the group in most cases (or people see it that way anyways)…and you risk putting the entire bl in danger, and other people can do the same vs your command making 3 tags or 4. Then once you have THAT many tags doing fights its pretty much a case of: you can’t tag if you don’t like either 3-4 of these tags cause you are definitely seen as trolling the bl despite your intentions. Plus it gives a bad commander an ‘out’ if they are losing every fight…they can just blame numbers and too many tag stealing their zerglings. Even if others tagged because the commander was doing such a bad job…..they can use that to make them look good and save face.

So you can’t tag, you can’t criticize or offer to help change things…..you can only go into outcast really and try to change bl.

And when you offer criticism no matter how constructive, tags and others may say something like “tag up or sh+tup”. At which point you can tag up but then nobody would follow you and would intentionally jeopardize your command and then they would complain how ineffective you are….repeating the cycle outlined above.

Plus most wvw players are inexperienced and have no idea about this tag culture. So they will often place all their failings on ‘someone’ higher than them. They don’t realize that tags are just normal players like themselves…..they hold them to a very high degree of scrutiny. The more inexperienced they are the more likely they are to blame the tag for their own failings on the bl whether the tag is there or not, whether they follow the tag or not, whether they are in the squad or ts or not. Many think tags are leaders of very large groups by default and don’t realize many have to snowball.

One time I tag on ebg on reset, then the next day im untagged and just roaming to get pips. So I tag for a tower on an enemy alpine bl, just to rally some greens to me without having to utter a word. I get this guy commenting while we take the tower without problem: “I would call you a scrub if I didn’t know how epic you were last night. Your a great tag though, That was a really great night!”. The reason he said that was I had no command, there was really noone in my squad, just a bunch of greens following me. What he saw was very few people and lack of coordination on any level, since I wasn’t on ts or giving commands in chat, and he saw my tag….in his mind he sees this as my fault.
I wanted to tell him off right then and there with something like “I don’t much care for the support of someone who doesn’t know anything, and would just as easily actively troll me”. This is how most zerglings are though…..you just gotta accept that without mass condemning them since you DO need their support to do certain things.
I can’t just give commands to random people who aren’t in squad as we take a paper tower that requires hardly any work to do, they would run away or get annoyed at me, or mute me.

Anyways if you want to tag without issue you need a large group of people that are on ts. People will NOT mess with you, and if they do you won’t have to lift a finger since everyone will label them as a troll for you. The larger you run, the more will follow you. The larger you run, the more cult members you will recruit. You can do the stupidest commanding ever and get away with it. Meanwhile that small group or solo tag doing stuff will be labelled an idiot and a noob for doing more work than your 50 man squad does. Most people THINK that the number of people in a squad is proportional to how good the commander is. “That many people wouldn’t follow them if they weren’t doing a good job”…..if you consider what I wrote above its just…..a headache of oxymoron logic. Thankfully the game is setup so if you have everyone on the map following you close enough you can be as incompetent as possible and still enjoy success…..or if you consider the big picture its more so ‘unfortunately’ since it sticks us in this cycle of self hate.

Its the same reason why people always trashtalk the enemy the same exact way regardless of your bl…..its just tiring. Wvsw players are generally not smart people. So tag accordingly if you want their respect.

I see all the above as reasons why wvswers are full of such unconditional hatred. Plus even if they do a good job or better job than you commanding….you actively look for even the smallest mistakes that you wouldn’t have made, aka you get jealous, so its really a no win situation when it comes to generating this ‘unconditional hatred’.

If you want to “tag up” to organize a group, that’s totally fine, also if you want to “tag up” to flip some towers and camps or Pip Train, just let Map Chat know what you are doing and try not to get in over your head (ie. Taking on a 15-20+ Guild group or attacking a YB T3 structure during prime time:))

Kinda disagree with the assumption that bad commanders get big zergs. I think a lot of it can be down to how fun the tag is to follow, not necessarily how good a fight commander they are.
I sometimes think of the best tags are twitch streamers or radio DJ’s. A good voice, humorous, usually has a music bot in chat, and keeps the zerg moving. Just a pretty fun and relaxed way to spend some free time.

Of course, people harbor some unrealistic expectations when you tag up. As someone else said, make clear your objectives, and don’t tag up if you’re not ready to accept criticism.