Guild Wars 2

It is clearly limiting how well you can do when you are outnumbered, why would you promote a numbers beat skill game. Its the worst mechanic in PvP and it needs to go sooner rather then later.

It has no place in WvW.

EDIT: For all the people thinking I want it removed so I can burst people to death are clearly mistaken, The reason I want it removed is so that skilled players are rewarded for taking on larger numbers. See the video as an example I could make these everyday where my group and I are constantly screwed over by the downed system.

I, for one, like a lot this system. Having to make a choice between beating downed player to death, interrupting others trying to rez, or finishing players while being surrounded by porting or good timing of defensive ability is indeed skill.
Don’t act like you speak for the whole wvw community.

Downed state promotes skilless gameplay.

Sorry but if ya get burned down ya should be dead. I’d lessen the time to res from complete dead to be a lil faster so you’d implement a tactic of ressing the dead.

As it is now you can be downed and kill a Mob to rally. This is stupid.

I’d also 1/2 the cost to repair ur armor after each death to compensate for faster deaths. The other option i’d go for is that getting a res doesn’t break ur equipment; only releasing to a waypoint should.

No, it will never be removed.

downed state is great the way it is.

stop trying to dumb down the game because you are having a hard time spiking people

Have to agree to the OP. Downstate is great for PVE and sPVP but horrible for WvW. Each fight takes way to long in WvW due to the case that you have to kill each player twice.

Downed state is fine for pve. But for wvwvw they should remove it. If they don’t, then it can be something like.. While downed, you can’t use any skills. Next 5 attacks will kill you or you are downed for only 5 seconds then you die. Was never a fan of downed state.

I remember when the halloween came out and there was that pumkin rumble thing where everyone was given a sickle and a gun and there was no downed state.. I was hooked on it for a longgg time.

No its not going to be removed, though it could do with a little bit of slowing down the speed of ressing.

Removing downed state is a transparent argument from the alpha-spiker crowd. WvW is meant to be about pressure, not how well you can gank someone from Invis. If you are a good player learn to deal with it, bring more knockbacks and fears to deal with ressers.

agrees with OP

downed state in WvW makes it close to impossible to win when you are outnumbered
when you are fighting a force twice your size, theres is no way to thin the enemy zerg. you can kill them one at a time, sure but even if you “defeat” them they can just lie on the floor and wait for 5 people to rez them in 10 seconds

its hard enough to actually kill anyone on the other side when its 10 vs 20
why make it so that those 20 people can easily get a rez when they die too?

nope. don’t think it is going to be removed. it is working as intended.

agree, its lame in Wv3 when large numbers can keep smaller groups from spiking. Remove it from Wv3…u die, learn better survival skills and not depend on a zerg to keep you alive.

Either remove it, or make it so you cant rally anyone if you’re in combat. Folks can still get a rez in combat…jst the 3s rally rez is lame as heck.

“It is clearly limiting how well you can do when you are outnumbered…..why would you promote a numbers beat skill game.”

In what way? You are gravely injured, you lay down.
If you are screwed by numbers now, you’ll be screwed by numbers later after the downed state removed. No change.

“The reason I want it removed is so that skilled players are rewarded for taking on larger numbers”
At the moment it looks like you are getting screwed by those numbers. If you “tagged” them, and somebody else kills them you should get some exp and karma still.

P.S. Where is the zerg in the video? It’s just a med-large group…

if someone claims he is so skillful, he shouldn’t complain about being outnumbered AT ALL.

when ppl stop trolling, huh? I think games shoud stop having forums, forum are full of ppl with mentality: buff everything I am, nerf everything I’m not

I like down state.

I just fine funny, that in previous PvP, RvR oriented games like DaoC, WAR, or even in WoW everybody was fine with that when your HP reaches 0, you die and have to respawn (or being rezzed by a teammate).

This downed mechanism is ok in PvE, even it is necessary in PvE. I don’t say anything about s/tPvP as I don’t play them. But it is a horrible thing in WvWvW, promoting zerg/turtling, breaking the pace of the battle AND the huge differences with classes’ downed skills. It is ridiculous when you have to spend more time to execute a downed player than you spent to actually down them.

What they could do is base Downed State upon the number of enemy and allies in a target area around the player. Like a Supply Camp capping circle.

So lets say player is downed. A circle around the player then counts both allies and enemy players and scales either direction. Depending on totals the following occurs

1. More enemy than allies, downed state as is to buffed. If numbers close to even, as is. If alot of enemy, healing is buffed

2. More Allies then enemy. Downed state is harder to heal. If close, as is. If alot then you can be killed in a couple of hits

This accomplishes two things.
1. It allows a smarter or more skilled small group to overcome larger forces as they should be able to. By scaling the health bar or healing factor you allow fights to adjust to population

2. It still allows larger forces to still be able to win by sheer numbers if they use some smarts.

all i see is alot of Q.Q go down the street and buy a box of tissues ^^
on a serious note.. one thing that could make you qqers a bit happier is to take out rally on kill and or self heal so only way up is rez from team.

Danepher.5263:

If you are screwed by numbers now, you’ll be screwed by numbers later after the downed state removed. No change.
.

I am screwed by numbers now because if I kill anyone they are immediately ressed by the enemy team before I can “finish” them off. If they were killed straight away they would either have to wait to get ressed after the fight or waypoint back and run to the location we are fighting.

P.S: I have linked the definition of a ZERG so you learn what it is.

Nowadays, the term zerg is used in mmo games to describe a force that uses numbers rather then strategy to defeat the enemy, therefore requiring no skill. This tactics is commonly known as zerging

I’m just annoyed that at times people can revive faster than you can kill. This especially goes for tank v tank builds.

Bunzy.8674:

Danepher.5263:

If you are screwed by numbers now, you’ll be screwed by numbers later after the downed state removed. No change.
.

I am screwed by numbers now because if I kill anyone they are immediately ressed by the enemy team before I can “finish” them off. If they were killed straight away they would either have to wait to get ressed after the fight or waypoint back and run to the location we are fighting.

Why don’t you use their allies reviving him as a chance to deal major damage to the rest of them? If they’re healing, they’re open to bursts, and every hit adds to the time it takes to rez the downed person.

Thieves: Clusterbomb
Eles: Half their skills
Warriors: Melee, really anything melee
Guardians: Melee, again
Necros: Wells, and marks
Engineer: bombs, gernades, both pistol, and rifle have multi-target hitting attacks
Ranger: Traps, Bonfire, Ricochet, sword
Mesmer: Shatter

i love the down ssytem, having a build of impact that deal a lot of damage, that rush in the middle of a huge groups, to cast few cc, and then down…. to get up when my DPS start to clean …. it’s an awesome thing to see….
also when u leave someone of ur freind down behind u… he tp the time that you do a turn behind them… they all die trying to finish 1 kill ….

p.s. and killing all the boss in the fort/tours/camps isn’t pve? :p

better then a respawn timer

every time they are downed they become weaker

You guys realize that some classes can spec to do even more damage to “downed” players.

Plus each time downed you get less HP to start, until you die instantly.

some of us fight on servers that are constantly outnumbered 2 to 1 on a daily basis

people on servers with more balanced numbers dont understand how bad it is for us

just today i had fight 2 hours of WvW where i basically have a group of 10 people to defend our borderlands against what is likely 30 people

it isnt even a matter of skill or focusing on the people rezing anymore, there is no way for us to kill a significant amount of them so that they cant all rez back

in basically every other mmo i had played, when people die, they actually die and have to walk back from their spawn, now when they die, they just have to wait for their zerg to rez them back like nothing happened to them. And thats not even counting they would likely have rallied because their attacker would get focus fired and wind up dead to actually kill anyone

and its not even only about the “down” state, even if i “defeat” anyone, its just a difference of 5 seconds of rezzing versus 10 seconds of rezzing someone

there is no way to thin the enemy group when you are outnumbered with the whole rezzing mechanic around

More and more I play, I see that downed state encourages zerg behaviour and discourages skill.

I understand that one of the reasons it is there is to give less experienced players “a second chance”. If players were dead dead, as soon as they were downed, then it would discourage all but the competitive types from WvW.

As it stands now however is that WvW encounters end up being just a numbers game. If you have fewer, but more skilled players, at a certain point the smaller group can’t DPS people down faster than they can be ressed from downed state.

ANets official response when this subject was brought up last time was ‘The downed state mechanic is here to stay’

The downed state itself doesn’t need changing, the class skills and how often they can rally does.

The answer is more siege.

Of course, the answer to everything is more siege.

Nope, down state is one of the things I like about this game. It adds so much more dynamic to team fights than just spike damage or AoE, which is what every other MMO does.

I can’t imagine WvW without downed state. I guess it would be a lot shorter fights and a lot more running from the spawn to get to the fight = not good…

Realistically, we just need this:

PvP downed health is now 75% of what it was.

But it needs to be 25%. No reason a downed enemy should have significant health.

Edit: I just have to add… I’ve seen some semi logical arguments for downed state in the past. But the people posting in this thread defending downed state are saying the dumbest kittening kitten I’ve heard in a while.

Zephyrus.9680:

Nope, down state is one of the things I like about this game. It adds so much more dynamic to team fights than just spike damage or AoE, which is what every other MMO does.

I can’t imagine WvW without downed state. I guess it would be a lot shorter fights and a lot more running from the spawn to get to the fight = not good…

Completely agree. One thing I really like about GW2 WvW is that ganking is kinda hard! Even burst built toons have to kinda work for it, and remain exposed long enough to finish you off. It introduces an element of danger that isn’t really there in most MMOs. In DAoC you could gank someone in the back of the party before the guy in the front knew what was going on (and usually before the guy getting ganked knew). The same goes for Aion. GW2 makes that a bit harder, and I think that’s a good thing.

Downed system helps only for zerging side - coz much more ppls and really easy to revive.
So, it’s really hard for for outnumbered side - to kill someone from zerg side

So many scrubs. If you dislike the downed system fine, but blaming it for your inability to take on multiple people is just bad. Killing twice your numbers isn’t that hard (if they are bads and you are pro obviously), even killing more than that is possible depending on comp and terrain. I guess some people just want to be an unstoppable god of destruction and take on the entire enemy world on their own.

If you remove the downed system you would have to increase HP/lower damage or everyone would run invis super-squishy bombgroups with some CC, that just two-shot chunks of people before they even realize what’s going on. Something which is close to possible even now. If that’s what you want, then fine, but you should be aware of the consequences.

I hope so, I am sick and tired of people getting downed and then logging out to avoid being killed.

Downed system isn’t a problem. The real issue is the defeated state. Players should have to wait 30-60s after being defeated before they can be rezzed. This would:

-allow smaller groups to have time to kill a chunk of a larger force before their backline just rezzes the dead ones.
-put an increase focus on positioning and pushing back an enemy force.
-still allow rezzes if you were defeated but your team won a fight.
-increase effects of being defeated. instead of being rezzed by 4+ out of combat players putting you back in the action in 15 seconds, you would have to wait before they could start the rez, and give the enemy more time to put them in combat.

I do think there needs to be a “Burn the Bodies” option, to prevent dead players spying for their reinforcements. Downed state is fine, but defeated state is just too good currently. Invulnerable spies EVERYWHERE!

It’s a terrible mechanic for WvW. The speed they can be brought back up is stupid. You should be able to interrupt rezing them with plain damage and you should not be able to rally off PvE mobs in WvW.

Downed state is bad for WvW for sure.

Really, really bad.

If people are reviving in the middle of a fight, punish them with AoE.

But if downed state were removed:
= No more low lvls in WvW (lot less people in general).

- Shorter fights.

- Theves and big spike damage would be nerfed.

- Massive advantage to siege weapons.

- Almost impossible to attack mass fortifications (like cannons + arrow carts) head on.

Taking fortified positions except with trebs/catas would just be a kittentorm (even more than it is already) and then siege weapons would be nerfed next.

The game just isn’t balanced for downed state to be removed.

Hmmm I’d like it if anyone in combat didnt contribute to speeding up the res. So for instance 3 people reviving outside of combat = 3 times faster or whatever, 1 person out of combat and 4 in combat = speed of 1 person reviving. that way all they do is add bodies to soak interrupts and such(still an advantage but not an insta res) and then attacking them will do something as well.(slow down the res, allowing more damage in, more time to spike etc)

Because most of you in this thread are too stupid to think about what the OP is talking about before jumping on him:

Downed state is bad in large numbers.

Scenario:

10 guys vs 5 guys > Someone gets downed on the bigger team > 5 guys have to concentrate on the downed stated person to kill WHILE surviving because res speed is too fast > Neverending battle until smaller team gets wiped.

TL:DR in outnumbered fights, the smallest team will almost always lose due to the mechanic of downed state. Zergs = win, regardless of skill.

Well it might be nice for balance to limit the number of revivers to 1 or maybe 2 people max. But fast revives are really needed atm to counter theves invis stomp (coming from a WvW thief).

Razarei.2809:

Because most of you in this thread are too stupid to think about what the OP is talking about before jumping on him:

Downed state is bad in large numbers.

Scenario:

10 guys vs 5 guys > Someone gets downed on the bigger team > 5 guys have to concentrate on the downed stated person to kill WHILE surviving because res speed is too fast > Neverending battle until smaller team gets wiped.

TL:DR in outnumbered fights, the smallest team will almost always lose due to the mechanic of downed state. Zergs = win, regardless of skill.

all they have to do is spam aoe in the area where that 1 guy is downed. 5 ppls aoe 1 point 4 try to ress all 4 will get downed as well

hard erhm ?

Please keep it as it, big battles between zergs is what makes this game, it keeps the game flowing…

I want to play World vs World… Please, if you want to play 5v5 go to sPvP/tPvP. Stop trying to change the game for the many, to needs of the few.

And threads like these is why game companies have to make decisions based off of what they deem necessary using their own data.

Bunzy.8674:

why would you promote a numbers beat skill game.

Because that is what large-scale PvP is about. Bodies, not skill, are the most powerful asset you can bring to the field. The downed state is a good mechanic that integrates well with GW2. The players that are having difficulty adapting to a different system will either learn or fail until they quit.

The Downed State is fine, it helps small groups just as much if not more than large groups. When the zerg with its greater numbers turns on you and spikes you, you can still be picked up instead of just insta-dying. Also it helps make a trap where the zerg will try to pick someone up and then those people will also die because they’re so easily clustered up now for big damage. Perhaps you’re just not as good as you think you should be, because my group doesn’t have any problems with it.

-signed, small group pvp

I agree that downed state is good in PvE and s/tPvP, but it would be better if it was removed in WvW. Speeding up defeated resurrection by a little (LITTLE) bit so it’s still possible to res in combat would be a good coinciding change so that pure defense didn’t become king.

It’s not fun that my biggest obstacle in winning a 1v4/5 is a game mechanic that favors the side with higher numbers to an impossible degree. If I do win vs 4/5 people, it’s because their biggest mistake was not sitting in a single spot slamming “f”. That’s not very interesting.

The potential thing that GW2 has going for it in the future is a moderately high (by MMO pvp standards) skill cap game that is still casual friendly. The downed state is hindering the skill cap thing, because it’s a hard limit on how well a coordinated small group can do against a much larger force. I don’t think it would hinder the casual friendly aspect, because with adjustments to the defeated resurrection mechanic, it would be almost no change if someone ran with the main zerg.

I don’t care about the downed system, but what does piss me off is the ability to rez people while dead in combat. If I roll into a 1v5 and drop 2 people, I’m left fighting two people while some other person is in the back rezzing the dead. The only thing keeping me from wiping incompetent groups is the fact that they get free rezzes and there’s nothing you can do to stop it. Someone else had a suggestion to remove rezzing completely dead players in combat, and I completely agree with this.

Downed carries bads and reduces personal risk in WvW. There are more bads then goods. Surprise, the system is widely popular. This is not to say that you cannot work around it, exploit it to your benefit, that is what you have to do to keep playing when you 1vX. However, that does not mean it belongs in a WvW setting.

In my opinion the biggest issues that need addressing if the system is staying, this if for WvW, I could care less about PvE:

1) speed of revive is far to fast, faster then the speed to stomp without quickness, which is just plain silly. Needs to be slowed down in WvW.

2) downed bar balance, major review required, with a focus on defense, not offense. Your downed, ie out of the fight. When my guildy asks us to not revive him cause he is doing insane damage, there is a problem.

3) no rally off pve mobs in wvw, no rally off of necro pets (if that still works)

4) I think you should get one less ‘revive’ before your instant killed the next time you die, in WvW

I actually think the downed state adds some dynamics to the battle. Downing an enemy sometimes attracts several others to him, perfect for dropping all AoE.

It prompts thinking, whether you’re in a position to push for the finisher or revive, better to stay back and pelt him, etc. Gives allies a reason to drop friendly skills on him to better the chance of getting a player back.

I do think not all downed states are created equal (in terms of defensive moves).

I could see tweaking downed hp, revive speed, or w/e, but remove it? Hell no. It’s a terrific feature. Reviving fully downed allies? I’m on the fence with that one.