Guild Wars 2

Yup thats right, Anet already built in a system to prevent one team from continuously destroying everyone else. It’s called temporary alliances! Look didn’t the work make an alliance when the nazi’s wanted to invade everyone? Didn’t the colonies make alliances with the french when they wanted independence? The only effective way to balance WvW or RvR is to allow the two lower realms to team up and shutdown the top team.

If ET and SBI shutdown HoD completely several things would happen. First a large amount of people who just switched to HoD because they are the strongest would be left with long que times and less server pride as they arn’t dominating. Also if Et and SBI joined up and kicked HoD down a bracket we would have an SBI vs ET vs JQ fight which would be awesome! Imagine logging on Monday after work and everything is exactly as it was on Sunday night.

Seriously we need to stop complaining about HoDs night crew (Technically its day crew) and simply shut them down. They want to run 24/7 coverage and take things uncontested then they will have to deal with a 2vs1. Eventually things will even out and large guilds will get tired of it and transfer off.

“SBI vs ET vs JQ fight which would be awesome! Imagine logging on Monday after work and everything is exactly as it was on Sunday night.” (sorry cannot direct quote for some reason)

Hate to break this to ya but being in the jq match up this week I will tell you they make about 90% of their progress overnight. As an example at 2am it was approximately 40/30/30 and woke up 75/12.5/12.5

So I hope you get your wish and enjoy jq

If sbi and et are truly not 24/7 zergers (which I doubt) I can only hope that one of you 2 comes in 3rd and maybe the 4,5,6 matchup won’t have a huge 24/7 zerg force then at least it will be fun

tbh I would like to see CD again with another server like ours and theirs.
Our matchup was so destroyed by jq but I think CD and us are a good matchup

Will.4165:

Yup thats right, Anet already built in a system to prevent one team from continuously destroying everyone else. It’s called temporary alliances! Look didn’t the work make an alliance when the nazi’s wanted to invade everyone? Didn’t the colonies make alliances with the french when they wanted independence? The only effective way to balance WvW or RvR is to allow the two lower realms to team up and shutdown the top team.

If ET and SBI shutdown HoD completely several things would happen. First a large amount of people who just switched to HoD because they are the strongest would be left with long que times and less server pride as they arn’t dominating. Also if Et and SBI joined up and kicked HoD down a bracket we would have an SBI vs ET vs JQ fight which would be awesome! Imagine logging on Monday after work and everything is exactly as it was on Sunday night.

Seriously we need to stop complaining about HoDs night crew (Technically its day crew) and simply shut them down. They want to run 24/7 coverage and take things uncontested then they will have to deal with a 2vs1. Eventually things will even out and large guilds will get tired of it and transfer off.

so you are saying that 20 people from SBI and ET will overcome 100 from HoD , we just don’t have enough people to do it during the week not even with a 2×1 strategy.

i’m growing tired of the WvW , EVERY single day at my guild we recapture our keep , construct defenses and stack supplies then in the other day ALL is lost. this isn’t fun this isn’t worth .

i just hope Anet brings GvG soon and i’ll be out of WvW for good and let HoD vs Wooden Doors they seem to enjoy it

though ideally the alliances are so the losing servers can fight their way back in the game if one server is completely dominating.

not just teaming up to hold one server down.

at this point, sbi and et should be teaming up and working together against us.

mangarrage.1062:

If sbi and et are truly not 24/7 zergers (which I doubt)

Right now we have like 6 people in the ET borderlands. 6= Zergfest? We might have more then say the 4th or 5th or 6ths servers but nothing compared to HoD. Honestly the 2vs1 would have to take place from the start on friday night and go until the following week. ET and SBI combined don’t have enough to lockout HoD during the week. However, if we utterly destroy them during the weekend we might give ourselves enough of a lead to kick them down.

Yes ideally the 2vs1 would only be used to help make it an even playing ground but in WvW’s current situation i think it’s acceptable.

Also we need to stop calling HoDs tactics cheap and saying they have no skill. These arguments have no merit. Building an alliance to allow you server 24/7 coverage is a very very smart tactic. Either we do the same or team up and punish them.

Also we need to stop asking Anet to fix a problem the players themselves could easily control.

Sorry but I don’t it really goes against the whole concept. Like I said you want jq you got it but you’re going to face the same nonsense you have this week. And then what are you going to do? Ally again? Why dont all of you guy just transfer to the same server?
Not to mention it lends to habit, so basically you will do it again, and it ruins the seedings.
In addition more and more server will start considering this at some sort of a stragedy, which is disgusting to me. Honestly there are tons of one side vs another games out there. The 3 sides is the only real way to do it.
Its not perfect and it will figure itself out over time with proper seedings.
I mean we are getting drummed by jq and we arent allying with anyone. Let the zergs fight the zergs.

@Will

I am curious what your server’s current population is listed as on the “World Selection” menu. I can’t check since I am at work, but I think it would be interesting to see a comparison between WvW population and Server population. Can you or someone else you know check that?

new plan lets have a 5 way battle

mangarrage.1062:

Sorry but I don’t it really goes against the whole concept. Like I said you want jq you got it but you’re going to face the same nonsense you have this week. And then what are you going to do? Ally again? Why dont all of you guy just transfer to the same server?
Not to mention it lends to habit, so basically you will do it again, and it ruins the seedings.
In addition more and more server will start considering this at some sort of a stragedy, which is disgusting to me. Honestly there are tons of one side vs another games out there. The 3 sides is the only real way to do it.
Its not perfect and it will figure itself out over time with proper seedings.
I mean we are getting drummed by jq and we arent allying with anyone. Let the zergs fight the zergs.

I don’t understand. The whole concept is not to allows have a three way fair fight. Adding the additional server/realm in there is a way to autobalance the playing field. When one server/realm utterly dominates (HoD) the two smaller servers team up. I mean its the whole point. Without this aspect there is no real reason to have a three sides. You would get the same from just two sides. When one becomes to powerful the other needs to adapt the same tactics/recruit people from other servers or die.

Secondly we have fought against JQ several times and they won’t be a problem. That is why they’re not in our bracket.

Not really following your transfer to the same server part. so meh?

I agree this situation will figure itself out over time, when people finally realize teaming up was part of the WvW design.

@derek

Agree.. 5way battle

Will.4165:

Yup thats right, Anet already built in a system to prevent one team from continuously destroying everyone else. It’s called temporary alliances! Look didn’t the work make an alliance when the nazi’s wanted to invade everyone? Didn’t the colonies make alliances with the french when they wanted independence? The only effective way to balance WvW or RvR is to allow the two lower realms to team up and shutdown the top team.

If ET and SBI shutdown HoD completely several things would happen. First a large amount of people who just switched to HoD because they are the strongest would be left with long que times and less server pride as they arn’t dominating. Also if Et and SBI joined up and kicked HoD down a bracket we would have an SBI vs ET vs JQ fight which would be awesome! Imagine logging on Monday after work and everything is exactly as it was on Sunday night.

Seriously we need to stop complaining about HoDs night crew (Technically its day crew) and simply shut them down. They want to run 24/7 coverage and take things uncontested then they will have to deal with a 2vs1. Eventually things will even out and large guilds will get tired of it and transfer off.

In concept, you are completely right…. however, practically this idea holds little merrit.

a) communication between 2 servers.
b) lack of general understanding from the immature majority of gaming populations.

I believe a server alliance would at LEAST somewhat balance teh issue at hand, but near immpossible to implement.

exactly i simply dont understand where is all this outcry of population imbalance from, honestly, unless you are from kaineng or devon, all the other servers are at full or high, there IS already a cap on how many ppl one faction can have in a map

the population on each server is there, its just that they aren’t organized enough or plan to put in the effort to have a presence in wvw overnight, that is not anet’s fault nor is that imbalance.

plenty of NA players play overnight on purpose, get organized and set schedule shifts to cap at night, it is a perfectly viable and smart way to win a 24/7 persistant war.

Uruu, Firstly having a high population during primetime vs mid day is a completely different thing. Secondly its technically not even a night issue. Its early morning mid day issue. NA players work/school doing the day. We can’t make a schedule with people who are not there. Our Borderlands are not capped. EB is which probably has a large amount of our wonderful Oceanic/Asian population. ET we have undermanned buff etc..

No other server has put the WORK into building an alliance with 24/7 WvW coverage like HoD. It was a brilliant move by that servers commanders/Alliance leaders. Denying this as an advantage is idiotic. Now we COULD try our hardest and recruit as many Oceanic/Asian alliances as we can to try to fight against HoD but that would take a lot of time and we would only see its benefits weeks if not months down the road.

Server alliances are the only short term, viable, player based solution we have to fight against the Juggernaut that is HoD.

Implementing is not hard either. Leaders from our most prominent guilds like LoD, War machine, DA etc.. get together and contact leaders from ET like TL or whoever. A lot of these players have well know youtube channels and are friendly smart gamers. Simply make a sudo alliance. Once the popular guilds/gamers are on board it would be easy. Obviously not everyone will go along with it but those people will be smaller and unorganized.

Aren’t any of the HoD night crew guilds tired of simply Player vs Door yet? Perhaps we can convince a few guilds to switch servers and engage in real PvP.

You can’t earn respect by capping undefended points. Any scrub guild can do that. You CAN however get that respect through actual PvP participation.

SBI is recruiting more night players. Come ally with us and make a REAL difference.

Will.4165:

mangarrage.1062:

Sorry but I don’t it really goes against the whole concept. Like I said you want jq you got it but you’re going to face the same nonsense you have this week. And then what are you going to do? Ally again? Why dont all of you guy just transfer to the same server?
Not to mention it lends to habit, so basically you will do it again, and it ruins the seedings.
In addition more and more server will start considering this at some sort of a stragedy, which is disgusting to me. Honestly there are tons of one side vs another games out there. The 3 sides is the only real way to do it.
Its not perfect and it will figure itself out over time with proper seedings.
I mean we are getting drummed by jq and we arent allying with anyone. Let the zergs fight the zergs.

I don’t understand. The whole concept is not to allows have a three way fair fight. Adding the additional server/realm in there is a way to autobalance the playing field. When one server/realm utterly dominates (HoD) the two smaller servers team up. I mean its the whole point. Without this aspect there is no real reason to have a three sides. You would get the same from just two sides. When one becomes to powerful the other needs to adapt the same tactics/recruit people from other servers or die.

Secondly we have fought against JQ several times and they won’t be a problem. That is why they’re not in our bracket.

Not really following your transfer to the same server part. so meh?

I agree this situation will figure itself out over time, when people finally realize teaming up was part of the WvW design.

I guess I wasn’t clear. In a WvWvW map you are fighting for your server. You are not fighting for your server and another server. It is WvWvW not W vs W+W. When faced with a huge zerg server you should get drummed, then the system will match you up against servers that are like yours. That’s how the system stays intact and, in addition, makes WvWvW more enjoyable for everyone else.
Unless ofc you’re focused on the rankings, which in actuality don’t mean anything

As far as your comments about jq won’t be a problem, yet you are not a huge zerg server. I just can’t understand, unless ofc you teamed up against them as well. I can tell you having been on at off hours if our off hour “zerg” (lol) of 15 or so people touch something of jq 40 come out of nowhere on any map, anytime of day. So like I said you either teamed against them as well, they all of a sudden have tons more people on their server, or you are under-estimating your numbers. We all were pretty close during our primetime but then it disappeared overnight, fought back a little day 2 then overnight again it was 2x as bad, now its over. So like I said dont expect the map to remain the same cause it won’t

I’m not trying to get into anything with you, but I just think I am more of a purist in my thought process. Both teams are my enemy not the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
If your 2 servers come in 2nd and 3rd, you’re 3rd place team would be replaced by jq and the 4,5,6 match will most likely be a good one with 3 servers of the same “pop and times”
That is the goal of the system and I would think most people as well to be matched with similar servers so they can play WvWvW and have to worry about 2 servers and not have to worry about after 2 days no one has any interest.

no most servers are still at HIGH pop during mid day actually, thats exactly what ppl are saying, its not that u have no one online, it is that the ppl online on these said servers dont put in the effort or time to get organized to put up a better fight during ‘off peak’ hours

even hod population goes down to high also mid day/ overnight, like all servers.
it is also very wrong to think that ALL of the oceanianic and asian players are on hod, visit any popular gw guild site you can easily see that there are plenty of oceanianic and asian guild spread across multiple servers, not on only one. The key is again organization.

The main alliance, wvw guild on ET also left their full high pop server to go to a lower one, i find it a little ironic for them to complain about pop too high on their old server, then complain again about not having enough ppl after they moved off … -.-

Also a TON of NA players take naps, give up sleep to take shifts overnight during the week, to put in their efforts at night, myself included.

servers are always in flux with free xfers, if your server presents a positive and competitive wvw scene, you will attract more like minded guilds to move there.

mangarrage.1062:

Hate to break this to ya but being in the jq match up this week I will tell you they make about 90% of their progress overnight. As an example at 2am it was approximately 40/30/30 and woke up 75/12.5/12.5

So I hope you get your wish and enjoy jq

If sbi and et are truly not 24/7 zergers (which I doubt) I can only hope that one of you 2 comes in 3rd and maybe the 4,5,6 matchup won’t have a huge 24/7 zerg force then at least it will be fun

tbh I would like to see CD again with another server like ours and theirs.
Our matchup was so destroyed by jq but I think CD and us are a good matchup

Not really, no. JQ wrecks up everything during the morning hours, and loses a lot of it during the night. If you want to fight, 10-2 is the best time to get at it.
So it’s not really that we have the most oceanic players or night-cappers… it’s that we have the highest level of unemployment.

mangarrage.1062:

Will.4165:

mangarrage.1062:

Sorry but I don’t it really goes against the whole concept. Like I said you want jq you got it but you’re going to face the same nonsense you have this week. And then what are you going to do? Ally again? Why dont all of you guy just transfer to the same server?
Not to mention it lends to habit, so basically you will do it again, and it ruins the seedings.
In addition more and more server will start considering this at some sort of a stragedy, which is disgusting to me. Honestly there are tons of one side vs another games out there. The 3 sides is the only real way to do it.
Its not perfect and it will figure itself out over time with proper seedings.
I mean we are getting drummed by jq and we arent allying with anyone. Let the zergs fight the zergs.

I don’t understand. The whole concept is not to allows have a three way fair fight. Adding the additional server/realm in there is a way to autobalance the playing field. When one server/realm utterly dominates (HoD) the two smaller servers team up. I mean its the whole point. Without this aspect there is no real reason to have a three sides. You would get the same from just two sides. When one becomes to powerful the other needs to adapt the same tactics/recruit people from other servers or die.

Secondly we have fought against JQ several times and they won’t be a problem. That is why they’re not in our bracket.

Not really following your transfer to the same server part. so meh?

I agree this situation will figure itself out over time, when people finally realize teaming up was part of the WvW design.

I guess I wasn’t clear. In a WvWvW map you are fighting for your server. You are not fighting for your server and another server. It is WvWvW not W vs W+W. When faced with a huge zerg server you should get drummed, then the system will match you up against servers that are like yours. That’s how the system stays intact and, in addition, makes WvWvW more enjoyable for everyone else.
Unless ofc you’re focused on the rankings, which in actuality don’t mean anything

As far as your comments about jq won’t be a problem, yet you are not a huge zerg server. I just can’t understand, unless ofc you teamed up against them as well. I can tell you having been on at off hours if our off hour “zerg” (lol) of 15 or so people touch something of jq 40 come out of nowhere on any map, anytime of day. So like I said you either teamed against them as well, they all of a sudden have tons more people on their server, or you are under-estimating your numbers. We all were pretty close during our primetime but then it disappeared overnight, fought back a little day 2 then overnight again it was 2x as bad, now its over. So like I said dont expect the map to remain the same cause it won’t

I’m not trying to get into anything with you, but I just think I am more of a purist in my thought process. Both teams are my enemy not the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
If your 2 servers come in 2nd and 3rd, you’re 3rd place team would be replaced by jq and the 4,5,6 match will most likely be a good one with 3 servers of the same “pop and times”
That is the goal of the system and I would think most people as well to be matched with similar servers so they can play WvWvW and have to worry about 2 servers and not have to worry about after 2 days no one has any interest.

You were perfectly clear, i was not clear enough. I don’t understand why you feel it is not ok to gang up on the strong force. I feel that these games are mini simulations of medieval warfare (With magic!) Warfare is not even or fair. Strong nations expand and takeout smaller nations until a group of smaller nations make an alliance and take down the larger one. Not allowing a server alliance makes having a 3 way fight useless. It might as well be 1v1. The three sided fight allows for autobalancing as well adds a social/political aspect to the game. We are fighting for our server, i agree with you on that. And in the face of overwhelm odds we must find a way to win. The way Arena net intended was high preforming servers to be placed against other high preforming servers and then when one server amasses such a huge advantage the other two take them down.

As for JQ, i have not be following them after they lost our bracket so you might be right about them using the same tactics as HoD. IF that is true then SBI will soon get to fight against the 4th and 5th place server soon. I can only speak from my experience last week with them.

I Think our arguments can be simplified down to this. I am saying a 3 way match exists to promote the losing sides working together and topple the leaders and you are arguing it was intend to allow three sides to fight each evenly. Sorry but to me the latter seems ridiculously hard to balance and no more fun/enjoyable then a 1v1 scenario.

It really doesn’t matter why someone wins. Lets just say HoD has the largest group of skilled players. They have more willing and able PVPers on throughout the entire day. Their collective skill is higher then an other server. What then? Let them dominate forever uncontested without a challenge? Wait until winners get tired of winning and move servers? Or every skilled player from other servers all move to another so they can collectively challenge HoD? Those options at least to me seem dumb when compared to the realistic and INTENDED solution of server alliances. But my opinion is an opinion and frankly i don’t care anymore. Honestly i’m have more fun on these forums then playing the actual game.

another silly attempt to cover up bad design from arena net.

In concept, you are completely right…. however, practically this idea holds little merrit.

a) communication between 2 servers.
b) lack of general understanding from the immature majority of gaming populations.

I believe a server alliance would at LEAST somewhat balance teh issue at hand, but near immpossible to implement.

Yep. An alliance between the lesser servers sounds good, but it just wont work out.
Lack of communication, the ability to still attack each other or deciding who wins.
Okay, the alliance fights off HoD so that HoD will be in 3rd, then what? In real war there is no ranking, there is no 1st or 2nd place. One of the servers will be in 1st place, the other 2nd which breeds competition between the 2 allied servers. You cant have a true alliance and be competitive with each other at the same time.

Add to this the fact that the allied system will only work for so long before the underlying problem is still there.
Pretend every bracket the bottom 2 servers team up and beat HoD until HoD is way down at the bottom. Eventually they would reach a point where servers with alliances wouldn’t be able to beat them simply because HoD could field more people then them combined.
In reality though, HoD wouldn’t have to fall very far down the bracket before their “non prime crew” out numbers both servers combined, which I already feel might happen on some days in the current bracket.