Guild Wars 2

There once was a game with huge anticipation made off of a huge brand that people waited for years to play. this game was destroyed by its own makers.

Zergs are like the equivalent of premades in that other game’s PVP. Basically a group would farm everyone else for days and hours building up something like gear and WVW skill points and having a distinct advantage. Thsi advantage basicllay continued into perpetuity.

Then there were attempts to balance it but what happened was just like speed building superior arrow carts the premades benefitted even more. Why becuase they had a head start. And the change just liek arrw carts played right into their hands.

Arrow carts are gonna bury this game. Becuase a zerg can still zerg and leave 5 people not to zerg while those not able to zerg just get to choose on how they feed their opponents badges.

I have a serious question: If you willingly join a competitive multiplayer game type that pits dozens upon dozens of players against each others for map domination, requiring siege weapons to raid keeps and supply points, why WOULDN’T you expect players to team up with one another?

GW2 is the only game I have ever played where the community actually hates teamwork. Call it zerg all you want, but that “zerg” is a unanimous group working towards a similar goal, using one another as is intended in WvW.

Don’t like it? Click the crossed swords at the top of the screen and stop complaining. It’s like whining that guns killed you in a first-person shooter.

The OP ain’t criticizing zergs per se, he’s criticizing the supposed “fix” to zerging which I assume was supposed to be AC’s. He’s saying, and I agree fully, that AC’s actually have had the opposite effect, making zergs stronger and making it harder for the outmanned teams to flip camps and towers. The golden age of WvW was before the April 30th patch when arrow carts were balanced and confusion was still effective. Those were the days when a good team of smart players on an outmanned server could still be a threat to a Zerg. Those days are over. Anet needs to understand the concept of “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.” The good news is they’ve clearly seen the enormous error of their ways and are scaling back damage on AC’s to siege and reducing the range. But that’s not enough. The 80% dam increase to players needs to drop and confusion needs a buff.

Entropy.4732:

The OP ain’t criticizing zergs per se, he’s criticizing the supposed “fix” to zerging which I assume was supposed to be AC’s. He’s saying, and I agree fully, that AC’s actually have had the opposite effect, making zergs stronger and making it harder for the outmanned teams to flip camps and towers. The golden age of WvW was before the April 30th patch when arrow carts were balanced and confusion was still effective. Those were the days when a good team of smart players on an outmanned server could still be a threat to a Zerg. Those days are over. Anet needs to understand the concept of “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.” The good news is they’ve clearly seen the enormous error of their ways and are scaling back damage on AC’s to siege and reducing the range. But that’s not enough. The 80% dam increase to players needs to drop and confusion needs a buff.

No, Arrow Carts have changed the Meta for the BETTER. Sorry you can’t just roam the map and trade caps with the enemy team, but if you have an Arrow Cart and Ballista already setup in your keep, there should not be ANY reason for the enemy team to set up siege of their own. It literally take ONE ballista to ruin any and all siege on the enemy team.

Perhaps if players chose to play more defensively and actually try to DEFEND keeps, instead of running in last second when the Gate is already 50% down, there wouldn’t be a problem.

Maybe Anet thought that the smaller team would throw down a few AC just before the zerg comes along and wipe the zerg with 3-4 well placed AC. Sadly the smaller group is unlikely to even think of throwing down a cart or a bally (or even be carrying supplies in quite a few cases I’ve seen) until it’s way too late.

Slapping down a cart and getting it built fast out in the open can turn a battle very fast, especially if the enemy isn’t expecting it and runs along in a nice ball straight through null field and necro wells just as the AC hits them, followed closely by our much smaller group.

The problem is that the zerg mentality makes for lazy minds (press 1, rinse, repeat), increasing AC damage on people wasn’t that much of an issue just required some thinking rather than head butting doors. It’s the damage to siege that needed fixing, way too high.

Straegen.2938:

All the AC change did was cause a change in tactics which IMO is a good thing as it keeps sieges fresh. Taking a defended keep should be difficult.

My only problem with ACs are some of the creative places they can land. ACs should observe cover.

The problem with the change in tactics is that it favors the Zerg, and here’s why. Yes, keeps should be hard to take. But zergs are flash building arrow carts in open field combat. Their superior supply count and the fact that they probably have more prints gives them a huge advantage against smaller, outmanned groups. Not to mention that superior numbers means they can build 20 times faster. Rant all you want about “adapting with new tactics”, the point I’m trying to make is that if AC’s were intended to give an edge to outmanned servers or smaller groups, they failed miserably. Larger, dominating zergs now stomp unopposed. SM used to trade hands a few times a week. Now, there’s one battle for SM, at server reset on Friday. Then it stays controlled by the server that wins the whole week. Not fun.

Entropy.4732:

Straegen.2938:

All the AC change did was cause a change in tactics which IMO is a good thing as it keeps sieges fresh. Taking a defended keep should be difficult.

My only problem with ACs are some of the creative places they can land. ACs should observe cover.

Snip

You do understand that if they outnumber you, unless your held up in a chokepoint in open field, they could just as easily run you over, yes? Defensive siege inside keeps is effective until the attacking team sets up arrow carts of their own to be offensive. WITH DEFENSIVE SIEGE.

The patch did a number of things, one of those things was that it made it so that arrow carts were viable for more than just defense.

I came here for some SWTOR bashing and all i got was another anti-zerg thread.

In a way, we were lucky Anet initially underestimated the popularity of WvW because they kept their fiddling, meddling paws off it for a year. Suddenly they woke up and saw the potential of WvW and decided to start messing with it. And thus all these issues. And the one thing WvW players wanted (a reward for the server that won and better rewards / unique armor skins) have yet to be implemented. Although the 28th patch involving ascended gear is a step in the right direction. I used to play WvW religiously. Now I just check in once in awhile. Sad face.

Sure see a lot of zergs in WvW. Guess you guys might be the minority here. I still enjoy wvw. Zerging or small groups. Its mostly about having a good time with friends in any case. Most of my toons have siege bunker maxed….so the AC’s are annoying, yes. But no more than they were before.

I still like it, still play it when I can…but I don’t live in there or turn it into a job.

Zergs are always guna happen, they are just loot bags for decent guild groups and good PvP’ers. Ive not said a word on the arrow cart buff since the buff as i wanted to give it a while and see how it really affected the game.

Well 90% of people are right, what the kitten are you thinking Anet? Like seriously i lead a guild of serious WvW players in almost every evening. Most pug zergs now run away from us in open field and only other serious guild groups engage us. This never used to be a problem as when they ran into a tower or keep through skill and determination we would get the door down and bask in some well deserved loot.

Well since this buff any bunch of idiots can jump on a bunch of arrow carts and push us away. Sure towers arent so bad but spending 4 hours hitting hills inner which is solely defended with arrow carts and mortars is impossible.
Why bother becoming a good player at this game when a noob can jump on a arrow cart and be pro. Ive heard of 6 very serious WvW guilds leave this game since your stupid patch and im sure many more will follow.

I would argue that it adds a need for skill to siege vs siege. Placing arrow carts isn’t everyone’s strong suit, placing counter siege isn’t either. But then again, I’m not one of those guys who jumps on the official forums to declare conspiracy, a cry for nerfs every time I get killed, or the end of the world.

Yorric Hunt.8214:

Zergs are always guna happen, they are just loot bags for decent guild groups and good PvP’ers. Ive not said a word on the arrow cart buff since the buff as i wanted to give it a while and see how it really affected the game.

Well 90% of people are right, what the kitten are you thinking Anet? Like seriously i lead a guild of serious WvW players in almost every evening. Most pug zergs now run away from us in open field and only other serious guild groups engage us. This never used to be a problem as when they ran into a tower or keep through skill and determination we would get the door down and bask in some well deserved loot.

Well since this buff any bunch of idiots can jump on a bunch of arrow carts and push us away. Sure towers arent so bad but spending 4 hours hitting hills inner which is solely defended with arrow carts and mortars is impossible.
Why bother becoming a good player at this game when a noob can jump on a arrow cart and be pro. Ive heard of 6 very serious WvW guilds leave this game since your stupid patch and im sure many more will follow.

If they couldn’t deal with arrow carts without quitting then they weren’t very skilled or serious. When the going got tough, they quit.

They could just remove keeps, towers and all siege weapons. WWW would be more fun.

McFribble.2349:

No, Arrow Carts have changed the Meta for the BETTER.

Making the game into siege vs siege is not for the better nor are the larger zergs that this has caused.

Johje Holan.4607:

If they couldn’t deal with arrow carts without quitting then they weren’t very skilled or serious. When the going got tough, they quit.

Agreed. If they were serious they would have tried to do something about it.
Like come to the forum and complain “en masse” about it.

I, too, hate that the game has become ArrowCart Wars 2 but I’m not gonna quit just because of that.

you guys do know that acs has a minimum range right?

going inside that will make the ac your close to useless.

and given that a zerg has to trow down a ac and get past the chock point your at to hurt you(else the diffrense in size is not huge and then if you notice them placeing the ac take it out before its build or someone is building it)

but the fact that you compare zergs and premades makes it sound like you are faceing guild groups and they are most likely on a voice program makeing it very hard for ou to do much with an smaller groupe atleast in open field

Omg you actually have to avoid arrow carts or deal with them instead of ignoring them. Are arrow carts doing more than they should? Probably, but they are far from as nightmarish as people make them out to be. I still have plenty of fights whether open field or otherwise where there is no AC action or so and we just avoid then deal with the ac. Just don’t play the way those with the AC want you to play. Change it up on them and you’d be surprised that they don’t know what to do.

I still think smaller forces can do just fine against the larger force when it comes to defending their points. You just have to be proactive instead of reactionary. Most GW2 players fail hard at being proactive and thinking ahead. Yet if you do it makes a world of difference. Then the larger force usually doesn’t know what to do, because the smaller force is defending intelligently.

You don;t need a skill build AC or play world of tanks

Omg its harder to garbage bin bads now. Im a bad. First thing I do now when I pass a tower is make sure there are two arrow carts placed where they can take out rams and then keep them refreshed. Holding off an attack as a noob till help comes is complete sweetness.

Let me see if i got it right.
You are in a small group, in the open,fight a zerg that is 2~3x times your size lose and complain?

DUDE really? AC is great for defense and allows small groups to beat bigger groups WHEN DEFENDING. As it should be.

If we had a siege that allows small group kill zergs just because it “can” the game would end in a “who has more siege wins”.

Right now the problems that need to be fixed and is something that i’ve been calling since the kittening beta is: You Die, got finished after being downed, you should respawn at the primary WP of your team, the one you respawn when you enter the W3.

Why? Because right now the team who has more “numbers” can keep it’s position virtually forever.
Someone got killed? revive him.
As the game is unless you completely wipe the enemy team, what renders in no player to revive, you not even hurt the enemy zerg.

That’s what need to be changed. Got yourself killed? Respawn at WP instantly.

It would fix the “dead spies” and it would give a better position for team that actually works together.

i think the arrow carts were a nice addition to the scene as a whole. earlier today 5 of us held a camp from about 20 people …it later turned into a big battle..but the AC made it possible for a few folks to actually matter and not get trampled.

now in wvw i think if you get stomped you should auto spawn at a wp..you shouldnt be able to be revived after the kill shot.

Straegen.2938:

All the AC change did was cause a change in tactics which IMO is a good thing as it keeps sieges fresh. Taking a defended keep should be difficult.

My only problem with ACs are some of the creative places they can land. ACs should observe cover.

ACs should be LoS. That’d fix a lot of the kitten kill zones that exist.

Arrow Cart Mastery…
In tier 5 where a zerg might mean 20-30 people, AC Mastery has been a good thing.

A handful of people can now defend an objective and focus siege build sites to slow an attack, although not as well since the siege damage nerf.

However I have also noticed that a larger force of well organised people can quickly do the opposite. Wipe all siege from the walls and continue on as before.

It has helped with all but the craziest of zergs. We just need something introduced to break up the zergs even more in my opinion.

McFribble.2349:

No, Arrow Carts have changed the Meta for the BETTER. Sorry you can’t just roam the map and trade caps with the enemy team, but if you have an Arrow Cart and Ballista already setup in your keep, there should not be ANY reason for the enemy team to set up siege of their own.

What actually happens though is that they set up an arrow cart right outside your wall and use a zoomhack to melt your trebs and ACs, even if they are right in the middle.

vluhd.7562:

McFribble.2349:

No, Arrow Carts have changed the Meta for the BETTER. Sorry you can’t just roam the map and trade caps with the enemy team, but if you have an Arrow Cart and Ballista already setup in your keep, there should not be ANY reason for the enemy team to set up siege of their own.

What actually happens though is that they set up an arrow cart right outside your wall and use a zoomhack to melt your trebs and ACs, even if they are right in the middle.

EDIT: I don’t think my last response was appropriate.

If it takes them to resort to hacking, so be it. It really can’t happen that often surely.

However, they could use zoom hacks before and still take out all your siege, where it counted.

I understand that everyone is complaining about the deal with the arrow carts. Yes there are valid complaints from both sides. That just proves that there is nothing wrong with them. You can complain because a certain resource or aspect doesn’t fit your style of play. It’s a living world and you have to react and adapt to it. If Anet changed everything that somebody had a problem with there would be nothing left in the game. Like numerous other people have said, if you no longer like it and no longer find an aspect of the game appealing move on and do something you do enjoy. Don’t prolong your suffering by crying wolf every time there is something you don’t like. Just go with the flow and apply for a job at Anet if you want to change how stuff works.